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Avast Products => Avast Free Antivirus / Pro Antivirus / Internet Security/ Premier => Topic started by: Skakara on February 22, 2015, 06:29:14 PM

Title: Avast NG / Secure Virtual Machines renders Windows System Protection useless
Post by: Skakara on February 22, 2015, 06:29:14 PM
Some weeks ago I finally upgraded Avast from 2014 to 2015 version. Along came the new NG feature. I started to search for more info about it and user experiences. Here's what Avast FAQ says about it:

Quote
Avast NG is a hardware based virtualization solution to provide more isolated test space. It is capable of running each Windows process in standalone safe virtualized environment (VM) and fully integrated to your desktop. Each process is executed in its own instance of VM, which means totally isolated from your other applications. This feature now powers Avast DeepScreen to improve better scanning of unknown programs (better detections).

Ok, sounds nice. Then I found several problem reports from users about this NG thing. For example, avast deleting users VirtualBox hard drives (in certain situation), NG process/service using max CPU for long period of times (sounded to me that those weren't normal "NG building up" CPU cycles), and finally what prompted me to write this topic: solution for system protection to 50% of hard drive with avast? (https://forum.avast.com/index.php?topic=162041.0).

For me too the System Protection was/is set to 50% when NG is enabled. That's about 220GB of space of my hard drive. Of course it's _max_ value, if available, which I don't have by the way.

I started watching the amount used for System Protection, aka System Restore. Now for few weeks (I've not rebooted, I use sleep mode) the "current usage" has been going from 0GB to about 16-20GB. The way the value behaves is that when it goes to about 16-20GB, next it is back to 0GB and starts growing until the 16-20GB and it goes to zero again. This cycle repeats itself over and over. FYI, I've had more space available when the value has gone to zero, not ~220GB but plenty more than ~20GB.

The negative thing about this? Well, every time when System Protection goes to 0GB, ALL your restore points are GONE. ALL.

I've seen the "current usage" going from 0 to the about 16-20GB and back to zero in 1-2 days. So, this renders the Windows System Protection totally useless.

I don't understand who in Avast thought that this is a good thing.

Incidentally just before I upgraded to the 2015 version and NG, I happened to check the system protection restore points (I was checking it for another thing) and there were many older restore points available. Few days using 2015 and NG, after I stumbled to the "system protection to 50%" topic I checked the settings and at the same time noticed that ALL of my restore points were gone.

Additionally it definitely was affecting normal use of Windows by slowing things down more even with a fairly powerful pc.

It's "uninstall NG time" I'm afraid. Back to using only File system shield.. that's all you need.
Title: Re: Avast NG renders Windows System Protection useless
Post by: Eddy on February 22, 2015, 07:37:29 PM
https://forum.avast.com/index.php?topic=166576.0
Things have changed in the latest version.
Title: Re: Avast NG renders Windows System Protection useless
Post by: Skakara on February 22, 2015, 11:32:08 PM
All I can see there regarding the discussion in this topic is the highly speculative "Well NG will be moved away from the system restore points hopefully in R3 in a few months." comment from normal avast user.

Well, I already uninstalled NG. Poorly designed/executed feature got stable status too soon.
Title: Re: Avast NG renders Windows System Protection useless
Post by: Lisandro on February 22, 2015, 11:47:41 PM
"Well NG will be moved away from the system restore points hopefully in R3 in a few months."[/i] comment from normal avast user.
No. It is the Avast Chief Product Officer, Vlk, isn't it?
Title: Re: Avast NG renders Windows System Protection useless
Post by: Skakara on February 22, 2015, 11:48:58 PM
What? It's from user "Steven Winderlich". Vlk hasn't even replied in that linked topic!
Title: Re: Avast NG renders Windows System Protection useless
Post by: Lisandro on February 23, 2015, 12:05:19 AM
What? It's from user "Steven Winderlich". Vlk hasn't even replied in that linked topic!
https://forum.avast.com/index.php?topic=166172.msg1183708#msg1183708
Title: Re: Avast NG renders Windows System Protection useless
Post by: Skakara on February 23, 2015, 01:22:59 PM
Ok, that's from another topic. So it's at least 3 months before NG works without system protection/restore.
Title: Re: Avast NG renders Windows System Protection useless
Post by: schmidthouse on February 23, 2015, 05:33:35 PM
@ Skakara

Good information,.
Title: Re: Avast NG renders Windows System Protection useless
Post by: bob3160 on February 23, 2015, 07:32:36 PM
Ok, that's from another topic. So it's at least 3 months before NG works without system protection/restore.
It's fixed now in the latest beta release:
https://forum.avast.com/index.php?topic=166576.msg1185874#msg1185874 (https://forum.avast.com/index.php?topic=166576.msg1185874#msg1185874)
Title: Re: Avast NG renders Windows System Protection useless
Post by: Skakara on February 23, 2015, 08:17:32 PM
No, it's not fixed.
Title: Re: Avast NG renders Windows System Protection useless
Post by: bob3160 on February 23, 2015, 08:48:02 PM
No, it's not fixed.
Do you have a screenshot or some other statistics to back up your remark ???
Title: Re: Avast NG renders Windows System Protection useless
Post by: Skakara on February 23, 2015, 08:52:11 PM
The burden of proof is on you. Bob, with all respect, this is not the first time you are a bit lost with technical details. It has been stated, in the very same topic you linked to, that NG without system protection/restore is probably coming in "R3" on June/July.
Title: Re: Avast NG renders Windows System Protection useless
Post by: bob3160 on February 23, 2015, 09:57:43 PM
The burden of proof is on you. Bob, with all respect, this is not the first time you are a bit lost with technical details. It has been stated, in the very same topic you linked to, that NG without system protection/restore is probably coming in "R3" on June/July.
1.  are you running the version I gave a linked to ???
If not, then I'd suggest you first try it before putting your foot in your mouth.
(http://www.screencast-o-matic.com/screenshots/u/Lh/1424724926691-91892.png)




(http://www.screencast-o-matic.com/screenshots/u/Lh/1424725032614-75704.png)
(http://www.screencast-o-matic.com/screenshots/u/Lh/1424725289249-63026.png)

Title: Re: Avast NG renders Windows System Protection useless
Post by: Skakara on February 24, 2015, 01:30:15 PM
I'm sorry but your screenshots are not proof in this matter. All I can see from them is that the NG seems to have had a name change.

On February 14th Vlk from Avast (Chief Operations Officer) posted this reply in the AVAST 2015 R2 Beta2 (https://forum.avast.com/index.php?topic=166172.msg1183708#msg1183708) topic:

Is NG going to work without system restore after this beta?
No, sorry, this is planned for R3 (~June).

That's 10 days ago. 6 days after that, AVAST 2015 R2 RC1 (https://forum.avast.com/index.php?topic=166576.0) topic was started. This is the topic and version of the program you claim that "NG works without system protection/restore". Notice the versions I've marked with red. R3 is not in public yet.

Changelogs of all public releases of R2 do not have any notation of "NG without system protection/restore".

I'm inclined to believe Vlk, the COO, former CTO, on this matter. And I don't think that the development of the feature went from estimated ~3 months to just 6 days suddenly. It could have of course (bad planning/miraculous dev advance/etc.), but nothing so far indicates that.
Title: Re: Avast NG renders Windows System Protection useless
Post by: bob3160 on February 24, 2015, 03:08:40 PM
As I stated in my last reply, if you haven't tried this release, you aren't really speaking from experience.


Assumptions aren't the best things to base facts on are they ???

Title: Re: Avast NG renders Windows System Protection useless
Post by: Skakara on February 24, 2015, 03:12:37 PM
As I stated in my last reply, if you haven't tried this release, you aren't really speaking from experience.


Assumptions aren't the best things to base facts on are they ???

Show the proof.

In the meantime I believe Vlk, Avast forum moderators and every other people who writes otherwise about this thing.
Title: Re: Avast NG renders Windows System Protection useless
Post by: Skakara on February 24, 2015, 03:16:10 PM
It would be nice if Vlk, or other Avast staff could answer this:

Is NG (or whatever it's called nowadays) already working without system protection/restore, and if not, when it is estimated to arrive in any public release?

So we can stop this time wasting BS. Thank you.
Title: Re: Avast NG renders Windows System Protection useless
Post by: bob3160 on February 24, 2015, 03:40:26 PM
It would be nice if Vlk, or other Avast staff could answer this:

Is NG (or whatever it's called nowadays) already working without system protection/restore, and if not, when it is estimated to arrive in any public release?

So we can stop this time wasting BS. Thank you.
Until you actually try the product that I used to answer your original post, you are the person posting without facts.
Try it, you might actually like it. :)
Title: Re: Avast NG renders Windows System Protection useless
Post by: Skakara on February 24, 2015, 03:45:41 PM
Whatever. Live in your fairyland and be pigheaded. It seems that every time i come here to post something, often with technical stuff, it feels like that same few members always come to trash the topic and waste everybody's time. Deliberate? It starts to feel that way. I believe Vlk and many others, you can believe whatever you want. I stop, you stop, ok?
Title: Re: Avast NG renders Windows System Protection useless
Post by: bob3160 on February 24, 2015, 04:22:47 PM
Have you tried AVAST 2015 R2 RC1 ???
A question asked several times but never answered.
Title: Re: Avast NG renders Windows System Protection useless
Post by: Skakara on February 24, 2015, 04:24:25 PM
It would be nice if Vlk, or other Avast staff could answer this:

Is NG (or whatever it's called nowadays) already working without system protection/restore, and if not, when it is estimated to arrive in any public release?
Title: Re: Avast NG renders Windows System Protection useless
Post by: Cast on February 24, 2015, 09:56:41 PM
The answer your looking for is here: Source (https://forum.avast.com/index.php?topic=166172.msg1183708#msg1183708)

Quote
Is NG going to work without system restore after this beta?

No, sorry, this is planned for R3 (~June).

Thanks,
Vlk
Title: Re: Avast NG renders Windows System Protection useless
Post by: Skakara on February 24, 2015, 10:02:00 PM
I know, but that comment was 10 days ago, and 6 days after that R2 RC1 was released and "some" people here argue that NG is working without system protection/restore in that version. I.e. Vlk commented that on the older R2 beta2 topic. So I thought that it would clear the confusion if Vlk, or other Avast staff member would comment on it again now that R2 RC1 is out.
Title: Re: Avast NG renders Windows System Protection useless
Post by: Cast on February 25, 2015, 01:49:06 AM
Id say theres your answer unless stated otherwise but I dont see how it would be ready now when someone from avast! has already said around June in the next RC.
Title: Re: Avast NG renders Windows System Protection useless
Post by: bob3160 on February 25, 2015, 02:22:07 PM
Id say theres your answer unless stated otherwise but I dont see how it would be ready now when someone from avast! has already said around June in the next RC.
You seem to want to keep arguing instead of simply trying what's been suggested.  :o
Title: Re: Avast NG renders Windows System Protection useless
Post by: Skakara on February 25, 2015, 04:01:35 PM
Bob, what pills have you taken? Did you think that you were replying to me?

Anyways, I reported you to moderator, your post here are plain trolling/flaming/etc.
Title: Re: Avast NG renders Windows System Protection useless
Post by: bob3160 on February 25, 2015, 04:28:03 PM
Bob, what pills have you taken? Did you think that you were replying to me?

Anyways, I reported you to moderator, your post here are plain trolling/flaming/etc.
I hope that made you feel better. :)

Title: Re: Avast NG renders Windows System Protection useless
Post by: Skakara on February 25, 2015, 04:33:23 PM
Actually it didn't. I just want you to stop. Get it? If you don't believe plethora of other people AND Vlk from Avast regarding this matter, then fine, but please stop posting to this topic.
Title: Re: Avast NG renders Windows System Protection useless
Post by: bob3160 on February 25, 2015, 04:36:29 PM
Actually it didn't. I just want you to stop. Get it? If you don't believe plethora of other people AND Vlk from Avast regarding this matter, then fine, but please stop posting to this topic.
Why ??? You still haven't answered the question about trying the beta and if that's corrected the problem.
Are you afraid that after you try the current beta it might solve your problem and you would no longer have something to complain about ???

Title: Re: Avast NG renders Windows System Protection useless
Post by: Rednose on February 25, 2015, 04:37:30 PM
" Grabs the popcorn "
Title: Re: Avast NG renders Windows System Protection useless
Post by: Eddy on February 25, 2015, 04:39:49 PM
Shakara,

why not install the 2015 RC1 and see if you like it or not ?

And it seems to me two things are mixed up.
System restore (windows) and avast restore.

And on a side note...
You want/tell Bob to stop, but he is not the only one that is sitting in the merry-go-round.
You are also.
Step out of it I would say ;)
Title: Re: Avast NG renders Windows System Protection useless
Post by: Skakara on February 25, 2015, 05:04:24 PM
Yeah I know.. I already once ignored but he just keeps popping back again and again. It's just mad that one user comes here and gives NO evidence of what he's claiming, even against what the the COO of Avast says.
Title: Re: Avast NG renders Windows System Protection useless
Post by: bob3160 on February 25, 2015, 05:30:30 PM
(http://www.screencast-o-matic.com/screenshots/u/Lh/1424881821758-79204.png)
The evidence is in the version I've asked you to try. Since that's not what you intend to do, then wait till
the final release comes out and find out at that time. End of the Merry Go Round.:)

Title: Re: Avast NG renders Windows System Protection useless
Post by: va.land on March 09, 2015, 06:59:45 AM
New relase Avast 2015 at this date not resolve issue.
Avast now set system protection space at 25% (down from 50%).
OMG! but you want let me to setting this option of windows seven as i like?
I want set my hdd space at 5%(are about 16gb), not is enough?
You are the new owner of the S.O.?

Title: Re: Avast NG renders Windows System Protection useless
Post by: mprefix on March 11, 2015, 02:40:29 AM
Avast Fee 2015.10.2.2214 with the "Secure Virtual Machines" component installed will set Windows System Restore to 25% of the C: drive's capacity.  Lowering the system restore size will work only temporarily; the size will go back to 25% at some point while using the computer or when it's rebooted.  Removing the "Secure Virtual Machines" component resolves the issue.  Clearly this component remains broken in the current gold release of Avast.
Title: Re: Avast NG renders Windows System Protection useless
Post by: lakrsrool on March 11, 2015, 08:33:08 AM
Avast Fee 2015.10.2.2214 with the "Secure Virtual Machines" component installed will set Windows System Restore to 25% of the C: drive's capacity.  Lowering the system restore size will work only temporarily; the size will go back to 25% at some point while using the computer or when it's rebooted.  Removing the "Secure Virtual Machines" component resolves the issue.  Clearly this component remains broken in the current gold release of Avast.

Hmmm, I guess that about settles it....

" Grabs the popcorn "
:)

darn.... " off with the popcorn popper "  ;)
Title: Re: Avast NG renders Windows System Protection useless
Post by: bob3160 on March 11, 2015, 11:09:29 AM
Avast Fee 2015.10.2.2214 with the "Secure Virtual Machines" component installed will set Windows System Restore to 25% of the C: drive's capacity.  Lowering the system restore size will work only temporarily; the size will go back to 25% at some point while using the computer or when it's rebooted.  Removing the "Secure Virtual Machines" component resolves the issue.  Clearly this component remains broken in the current gold release of Avast.
What makes you say it's broken ??? The NG feature requires a certain amount of hard drive space.
I presume that Avast set 25% as the amount reserved for use by NG and Windows System Restore function.

Title: Re: Avast NG renders Windows System Protection useless
Post by: Skakara on March 11, 2015, 12:14:24 PM
So Bob, no apologies for being wrong and creating this circus? Or do you still think that NG/Secure Virtual Machines works without system protection/restore? You came in this topic shouting allegations with no evidence, and were against what everybody else said, even Avast staff.
Title: Re: Avast NG renders Windows System Protection useless
Post by: bob3160 on March 11, 2015, 03:43:47 PM
So Bob, no apologies for being wrong and creating this circus? Or do you still think that NG/Secure Virtual Machines works without system protection/restore? You came in this topic shouting allegations with no evidence, and were against what everybody else said, even Avast staff.
I don't have a clue what your trying to say or relay ???
Title: Re: Avast NG renders Windows System Protection useless
Post by: mprefix on March 12, 2015, 02:28:48 AM
Hi Bob,

Perhaps broken isn't quite right because I don't know whether the Avast programmers intended to take up so much system restore space; if indeed this was the intention, then the feature isn't broken but rather working as designed but designed poorly.  In my case, 25% of my C: drive is approximately 60GB.  Including the 2.5GB i normally devote to system restore, Avast is taking up almost twice as much space as everything else on my C: drive:  the operating system itself plus numerous applications.  To me, and I've been in computer support environment for well over two decades, it's ludicrous for Avast to require this much space; arguably, there's no logical reason for it.  One could take my entire Win7 installation minus my own apps and run it in a virtual machine in far less space.  From a customer standpoint, no program should require 60 GB.  Another serious problem this creates is that how does one back up their C: drive?  My C: drive is typically in the 38GB usage range' so now I have to back up an additional 60GB?  True, I can just delete all the restore points but then I lose actual valid restore points.   As has been stated previously, this effectively negates the entire point of system restore. 

What I also find a bit disturbing is that I couldn't find anything in Avast's documentation or release notes that states this new feature requires 25% of one's primary drive.  After a couple of days of resetting my system restore size and running multiple virus scans, Google led me here.  If Avast is working as intended, the system requirements should have stated the drive space needed.  Either way, a 25% space requirement is well beyond any reasonable expectation of what an antivirus program should need.    I do appreciate the technology that's being put forth to fight viruses, just don't take away such a huge chunk of my drive to do it.
Title: Re: Avast NG renders Windows System Protection useless
Post by: bob3160 on March 12, 2015, 09:49:03 AM
@ mprefix,
I've reported your reply to a Moderator. Let's see if we can get Avast to respond to your concerns.
Title: Re: Avast NG renders Windows System Protection useless
Post by: Skakara on March 12, 2015, 01:05:17 PM
That's pointless IMHO because Avast has told that NG/Secure Virtual Machines stops using Windows system protection/restore in "R3" version, which is estimated to come in June/July.

And the crux of the argument with Bob is this:

Ok, that's from another topic. So it's at least 3 months before NG works without system protection/restore.
It's fixed now in the latest beta release:
https://forum.avast.com/index.php?topic=166576.msg1185874#msg1185874 (https://forum.avast.com/index.php?topic=166576.msg1185874#msg1185874)
He claims that Avast NG/Secure Virtual Machines is already not using system protection/restore, which is not true at all.
Title: Re: Avast NG renders Windows System Protection useless
Post by: mprefix on March 13, 2015, 01:57:46 AM
Thanks Bob, I appreciate your help.
Title: Re: Avast NG renders Windows System Protection useless
Post by: Lisandro on March 14, 2015, 02:02:12 PM
Avast is using all my drive space with system restore points... I try to reduce the limit of system restore points but somehow, avast changes it :(
Title: Re: Avast NG renders Windows System Protection useless
Post by: mprefix on March 14, 2015, 10:23:24 PM
Hi Lisandro,

I think it would be helpful to the Avast folks if listed the specific version of Avast.  Looks like there may be a combination of rlease candidate and gold versions being used in this discussion thread.
Title: Re: Avast NG renders Windows System Protection useless
Post by: Lisandro on March 15, 2015, 06:40:53 PM
Hi Lisandro,

I think it would be helpful to the Avast folks if listed the specific version of Avast.  Looks like there may be a combination of rlease candidate and gold versions being used in this discussion thread.
Yes, thanks.
I'm with 2015.10.2.2214 (the latest).
Title: Re: Avast NG renders Windows System Protection useless
Post by: DavidR on March 15, 2015, 06:48:47 PM
The specifications and subsequent system check for NG are too darn low - if it will try to install the NG function on my totally underpowered win7 netbook.

Acer Aspire One, Win7 Starter (32bit) 10.1", 1024X600 screen, 2GB DDR3 RAM, Intel Atom N255 (1.5GHz dual core) CPU and 250GB HDD.

I actually though that it wouldn't install on my crazily under powered netbook - then I saw it trying to get up and running with my netbook on its digital knees.
Title: Re: Avast NG / Secure Virtual Machines renders Windows System Protection useless
Post by: Lady Fitzgerald on March 17, 2015, 06:11:39 AM
Ok, I've been reading this thread and, the more I read, the more confused I get. I'm using Avast Free 2015.10.2.2214. My C: drive recently started using 10.962GB Shadow Copy Space, apparently because of a bug in Avast and has been rapidly filling up my drive (128GB Samsung 840 Pro). I also have system Restore turned off (it never worked correctly in Win and I found imaging with Macrium Reflect to be far superior). What can I do to stop this hemorrhaging into Shadow Copy?
Title: Re: Avast NG renders Windows System Protection useless
Post by: brussellradio on August 02, 2015, 12:28:54 AM
This latest update has block chkdsk from starting and removed all earlier system restore marks on my two different computers. I uncheck the VM action and all works ok now. But does that weaken paid Avast Internet Security less effective? I see lots of comments on this, but no  definitive answers from Avast.
What's wrong?