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Consumer Products => Avast Free Antivirus / Premium Security (legacy Pro Antivirus, Internet Security, Premier) => Topic started by: B4349 on November 11, 2003, 05:15:35 PM
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Hi,
After I installed Avast! home edition, I installed Zonealarm too. Installation of Zonealarm was ok, but program won't work :-[ In the tray (at the right-bottom of the window) is Zonealarm's icon with X which means that "trueVector security service is shut down". And the Zonealarms program window says also "system error: please reboot", but that didn't help.
What to do? I tried to install ZA for various times, but the result was always the same. Previously I have had ZA in my computer, but I uninstalled it because I tried F-secure antivirus, which includes firewall. Well, F-secure was VERY heavy and I got rid of it and updated it with Avast!. Avast! works fine, but I still would like to have ZA too. My computer's spesifications are: 800 MHz/512 MB/20 GB/WinXP
Avast! and ZA versions are the latest.
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avast! works with Zonealarm without any problem - the only thing is that you must allow several avast! programs to access the Internet.
It seems that your problem is about installing Zonealarm itself ???. I have no idea what can be wrong with it...
Pavel
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yes...i tink the problem lies with zonealarm....i never have a good impression of zonealarm! >:(
it crashed my comp last time.. >:(
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I have both zonealarm and zonealarm plus running on systems together with avast. No problem whatsoever. The only thing I can think of as being different is that i first installed zonealarm and later avast (was using another virus program before)
Peter
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Because Avast! is running ok, the problem might be in Zonealarm, or in some settings. I have XP's own firewall turned on -could that be disturbing? If I remember correctly I didn't turn that off when used ZA earlier. Strange indeed.
I dont't think that ZA's installation is the problem because I have installed it from two different downloadings and the installation process works fine. The problem exists when ZA is launched.
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Ohhh yeah!!! Two firewalls on one computer is a guarantee for trouble. I have made that mistake once... It led to every possible problem from crashing computers with blue screens to comuters that were not protedcted at all.
You must understand that a firewall tries to control all tcpip traffic. If there are two processes trying to get full control on things, they are bound to have problems with each other.
COMPLETELY disable one before attempting to install another...
Peter
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I have both zonealarm and zonealarm plus running on systems together with avast. No problem whatsoever. The only thing I can think of as being different is that i first installed zonealarm and later avast (was using another virus program before)
Peter
Me too, ZA works fine with avast! ;D
Why don't you uninstall avast!, install ZA and then avast! to see if it works... Of course, disable (or, better, uninstall) any prior antivirus or firewall application ;D
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B4339,
Firstly, ZA and Avast get along rather well, and it doesn't matter in which order they are installed.
I would not recommend having XPs internal FW running against ZA. Two firewalls do not always get along, and often limit effective protection or create a "wall" preventing useful internet access. MORE of a good thing is not always good!
Zone Alarm does have some problems at times loading True Vector.
By default TV is configured to run as a service at bootup and continue until the computer is shut down. It monitors and controls internet activity.
If True Vector has never loaded, then you must try uninstalling Zone Alarm according to the instructions at this link. YOU MUST FOLLOW THEM CAREFULLY!
http://www.zonelabs.com/store/content/support/znalm26Main.jsp#xp (http://www.zonelabs.com/store/content/support/znalm26Main.jsp#xp)
Another thing to consider, is that ZA will not run until you sign on to the system....meaning if you do not have Administrator rights, then it will not load TV either.
If ZA is not uninstalled propertly, serious conflicts could result since files will be leftover and a clean install will not occur.
If we are unsuccessful, then we will need to remove all non-essential programs from the startup menu until identify which one is interferring with TV.
PAVEL,
If B4339 is getting a True Vector shutdown, then ZA is not even running, and therefore it doesn't matter what access is granted. True vector is the "active guard" portion of the ZA application. At times, it can be quite tempermental.
This usually occurs when another app interferes with it loading fully.
Good luck
techie
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Thanks for the advices. I'm the admin of that computer so the rights are not the problem. I tried to turn XP's firewall and avast! off and then launch ZA again. That didn't help. Next I migth have to try unistalling ZA, and installing it again with XP's firewall turned off. But why I'm wondering this, is because earlier used ZA with XP's firewall enabled and still ZA worked very well. But that was before I had Avast! antivirus installed, maybe it somehow causes some misunderstanding between programs (firewalls)?
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Thanks for the advices. I'm the admin of that computer so the rights are not the problem. I tried to turn XP's firewall and avast! off and then launch ZA again. That didn't help. Next I migth have to try unistalling ZA, and installing it again with XP's firewall turned off. But why I'm wondering this, is because earlier used ZA with XP's firewall enabled and still ZA worked very well. But that was before I had Avast! antivirus installed, maybe it somehow causes some misunderstanding between programs (firewalls)?
I never had any trouble with internal XP firewall and ZA or avast!. I'm not so sure the use of both (internal + ZA) is worse than only ZA. Anyway, maybe it will work with techie's advices.
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I never had any trouble with internal XP firewall and ZA or avast!. I'm not so sure the use of both (internal + ZA) is worse than only ZA. Anyway, maybe it will work with techie's advices.
No it didn't :-[ I did just like the instructions told to, but when I installed ZA again the result was same: "TrueVector security service shut down". Now I really don't know what to do. If I can't solve this it would be better to concider another firewall? What a shame, I liked ZA.
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I never had any trouble with internal XP firewall and ZA or avast!. I'm not so sure the use of both (internal + ZA) is worse than only ZA. Anyway, maybe it will work with techie's advices.
No it didn't :-[ I did just like the instructions told to, but when I installed ZA again the result was same: "TrueVector security service shut down". Now I really don't know what to do. If I can't solve this it would be better to concider another firewall? What a shame, I liked ZA.
Is the True Vector Service running? (C:\WINDOWS\system32\ZONELABS\vsmon.exe -service)
This service has a lot of 'dependencies': Network AFD, RPC, TDI, DHCP client, DNS client, wireless configuration, and so on... (I don't know exactly what these services do, but without them, ZA won't work properly).
Could you see what is happening with True Vector Service and, besides of this, try to post the Windows Event Error for it...
Let´s try a little more... ;)
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B43,
This is a peculiar problem which seems to defy solution at this point.
I read that you tried shutting down the XP FW and Avast itself with no change. I also read you tried the uninstall as per ZA vendor instructions with no change.
Did you shut down all unecessary programs in Startup except ZA, TV, Systray and Explorer? If not, let's try that if only to eliminate a possible solution.
Technical is correct. Zone Alarm depends on many sub-processes.....any one can cause a problem.
As a rule, I never recommend having more than one of "anything" running. Just because XP FW and ZA got along once doesn't mean that it will continue.
Hang in there, we'll get to the bottom of this.
Also, Did you know that Zone Alarm has a "support chat" live????
You'll find it at www.zonealarm.com under Support.
techie
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i've got the same problem long time back... >:(
so annoying >:( >:(
y not trying using kerio instead of zonealarm? ;D
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Well, maybe I'll try to solve this with ZA's assistant by asking him on-line. I also posted this conversation to ZA's forum, where someone was having samekindoflike problem I have..
I checked startup, and the TrueVector included list, so it should start running in startup. There was also Avast in that list, and I didn't try to ignore it from list. But last installation of ZA (I did) was when Avast! and XP's FW was turned off like you read. I also deep-scanned hole C with Avast! for some viruses which may interfere system but it was clean.
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Well, maybe I'll try to solve this with ZA's assistant by asking him on-line. I also posted this conversation to ZA's forum, where someone was having samekindoflike problem I have..
If you get something from the ZA support team, please, let us know. As shgoh said, we all have similar troubles in the past, me too. ;)
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yes yes....please tell us!!!.......and next time we and the people here in this forum can solve similar problems...thanks... ;D
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Haven't yet consulted ZA's support team. We will see am I going to do it or am I changing to another FW. But somehow even this problem is annoying it still fascinates me. It would be hard works win if I could get it running.
Yesterday Avast found win32:blaster worm. I thought that it was disturbing the system and that's why ZA won't work. But no. When I got worm out of system, I tried to install ZA again (it was about 15-20 th time!!). And surprise surprise: True vector security service is shut down.
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I'm not much of a fan of zone alarm....Mostly, because of past things including the former interface being way too simple (I think that has been fixed since).
Ok off the rant. No one asked this question so I'm going to ask before you dump a solution you like. What does Event viewer say about the situation?
If you go in and clear all the event viewer logs. Then reboot and look at them to see exactly what is failing. If you are not sure what you are looking at you can post you results here and you should have a lot more input.
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Event Viewer by the way is in
Control Panel -> Administrative Tools
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The system log says that service TrueVector internet monitor is dependent of the service vsdatant, which starting failed because of error: sevice can not be run because it has been removed from working or there's no devices that are in use for it. (This is my translation because my OS's language is Finnish.)
The application log says that TrueVector driver: Driver install or load failure: LoadNTDeviceDriver. Win32 error: starting of service failed because it has been removed from working or there's no devices that are in use for it.
That vsdatant (TrueVector Device Driver) was installed yesterday (last time I installed ZA). Version of the vsdatant is the same as ZA's.
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If you get something from the ZA support team, please, let us know. As shgoh said, we all have similar troubles in the past, me too. ;)
Well, Zonealarm's support is only for paying customers.. Free ZA user is practically having support only from ZA's forum. So the ZA's support team is out of counts, but I've also discussed/am discussing about problem in forum.
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B43...
Sorry I havn't posted on this recently, but I have been monitoring other posters. This seems to be a very unusual problem which doesn't help you much.
I have done research on ZA TV not starting and cannot come up with a solution.
I still need to ask if you followed my suggestion of shutting down all non-essential programs in the Startup. I know you checked it , but then you went on to explain other things. Shutting down everything else but ZA and TV, Systray and Explore (if installed) is the only way we can tell if a conflict exists with another program, or if another program is interferring with one of the sub routines needed by ZA uses to start True Vector.
Try running a Disk Scan and Disk Defrag just in case some error exists that has not shown itself elsewhere.
If all else fails, I would ask you to look into Sygate Personal Firewall.
It is very easy to set up, and has the versitility of being both an Application and Rule based firewall.
or, Kerio has been recommended by other users on the forum although I did not care for it myself. Tiny PFW is also an excellent program but the learning curve is high. Agnitum's Outpost has gotten mixed reviews from users.
techie
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If all else fails, I would ask you to look into Sygate Personal Firewall.
It is very easy to set up, and has the versitility of being both an Application and Rule based firewall.
or, Kerio has been recommended by other users on the forum although I did not care for it myself. Tiny PFW is also an excellent program but the learning curve is high. Agnitum's Outpost has gotten mixed reviews from users.
techie
I agree with techie. Sometimes True Vector 'play' jokes with us... Sometimes, even with loading errors in Windows Events, everything looks fine !? You can test your firewall (there are some links here (http://www.avast.com/forum/index.php?board=1;action=display;threadid=1509;start=0) at section Firewall & System tests) and nothing wrong seems to happen :-\
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I also agree. Just don't use Sygate if you use proxomitron or admuncher as it doesn't work properly with them. If you can stomach kerio 2.1.5 you'd be in good shape, but it takes some getting use to. Kerio 4 isn't very good IMO. Tiny is OK. Outpost is pretty good as well, but I can't remember what is disabled in the free version. Good luck anyway.
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Just don't use Sygate if you use proxomitron ......as it doesn't work properly with them.
On the contrary, I use Proxomitron with Sygate and they work fine.
Outpost is pretty good as well, but I can't remember what is disabled in the free version.
This may help. ttp://www.agnitum.com/migratepages/newpro_vs_oldfree.html (http://ttp://www.agnitum.com/migratepages/newpro_vs_oldfree.html)
Good luck
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On the contrary, I use Proxomitron with Sygate and they work fine.
I guess I should restate what I meant. The problem is the well documented loopback problem in Sygate. Don't get me wrong I like sygate as a firewall I use it on machines without local proxy software. It does a good job, but the loopback issues which aren't on the surface that big of a deal are very real. It has nothing to do with crashing.
Any program that connects through the proxomitron has free reign on the internet and you can't control them, which is essentially why you would use a firewall in the first place. Its worse with programs like Ad Muncher that work where they filter everything on a lower level and don't require you to enter a proxy server.
You can in sygate allow proxomitron and block internet explorer and still be able to browse the web in internet explorer.
Also you left out the "h" in your outpost link.
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I guess I should restate what I meant. The problem is the well documented loopback problem in Sygate
Can't be too well documented...I never heard of it.
Any program that connects through the proxomitron has free reign on the internet and you can't control them.
Not entirely correct. Although Proxo is an "upfront" filter, the firewall will still act on internet access. In addition, any other software such as adware and spyware blockers, etc. will work as intended. The function of Proxo is to filter out anything you want and can be tailored as needed. It can stop all or little. It can block urls or allow ones you want. The programs do not have free access. They are still monitored and controlled by your firewall. (provided it is reliable and configurable).
Also you left out the "h" in your outpost link.
Sorry, but my fingers get tired. ;D
Take care,
techie
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Not entirely correct. Although Proxo is an "upfront" filter, the firewall will still act on internet access.
Not true with Sygate, because of the problem I stated. Proxomitron like other local proxy software sits between the application and the internet. Internet Explorer for example is connecting to proxomitron and not directly to the internet. Sygate is unable to monitor Internet Explorer's connection to Proxomitron and once you allow proxomitron access in both directions Internet Explorer can send and recieve unmonitored. Sure the traffic is monitored in terms of proxomitron, but sygate has no idea what applications are really passing the traffic especially if you have multiple applications filtered. Its confusing enough trying to track down the embedded applications that use internet explorer's settings.
In addition, any other software such as adware and spyware blockers, etc. will work as intended. The function of Proxo is to filter out anything you want and can be tailored as needed. It can stop all or little. It can block urls or allow ones you want. The programs do not have free access. They are still monitored and controlled by your firewall. (provided it is reliable and configurable).
Again it has nothing to do with the actual filters or settings in proxomitron. It has to do with the fact that sygate simply does not handle loopback associated with local proxies.
Can't be too well documented...I never heard of it.
Its so well documented on the sygate forums that the moderators were sick of answering questions about it last I checked. As some people are pretty annoying with it, but then again they said it would be fixed in 5.1 and we are past 5.5 and its still an issue.
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doggeral,
Thank you for the information. I will have to research the loopback problem.
But if IE connects directly to Proxo, then why does Sygate ask if I want to grant permission to IE to access the internet? If I set Sygate to block ALL, none of my apps will connect.
This seems contrary to what you have said. However, this is off topic and I no longer use Proxo since it is not supported anymore by the developers.
Nice to have shared a user problem with you.
Doggeral,
I came across this site. DocB may be able to help you.
http://www.moonlake.net/security/docbza3.htm (http://www.moonlake.net/security/docbza3.htm)
Techie
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Here is one of the many threads on this issue.
http://forums.sygate.com/vb/showthread.php?s=323d29b96129ef8e8c5a05b12c75e19c&threadid=6397&highlight=local+proxy (http://forums.sygate.com/vb/showthread.php?s=323d29b96129ef8e8c5a05b12c75e19c&threadid=6397&highlight=local+proxy)
If you have Internet Explorer setup to work with Proxomitron Sygate will ask about Proxomitron's connection to the internet, but not sygate's. It just doesn't work. I've worked with it myself and the developers and moderators have acknowledged that it doesn't work. If you no longer use programs like Proxomitron or Webwasher where a local proxy is used it isn't an issue. Overall its not that big of a deal, but microsoft has been bashed hard for a lot less and when working with the internet the only thing you can do is try to prevent problems you know about.
I don't know why you stopped using proxomitron. Though it is no longer supported by the developer because of the way it works you will always be able to filter what you need through filter updates which to this day are still being created. And since you can create your own it just makes it so powerful. If it was supposed to be intelligent that would be a different story, but it does what you tell it to do.
This is getting off topic, but you probably meant that link for B4349 and not me :) . But I appreciate the acknowledgement anyway...
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Sorry fellows, but I made easy solution to this problem and installed Kerio. Everything went ok and now its running like it should be.
Just can't understand what the h*** is wrong when ZA didn't like to work. If I sometime install os again will I try ZA for a last time, and if it won't work even then would I forget whole Zone labs and will tell everyone that don't mess with them..
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I also agree. Just don't use Sygate if you use proxomitron or admuncher as it doesn't work properly with them. If you can stomach kerio 2.1.5 you'd be in good shape, but it takes some getting use to. Kerio 4 isn't very good IMO. Tiny is OK. Outpost is pretty good as well, but I can't remember what is disabled in the free version. Good luck anyway.
Why did you say that Kerio 4 is not as good as Kerio 2.1.5 ?
I have downloaded 2.1.5 a long time ago (it was a Waldo´s suggestion) but I did not have time to try it (I use ZA...). Now I have just downloaded 4.0.7. For my surprise the number of the version increase a lot! But I still have the old version (not inslalled yet). What do you suggest? ;)
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Sorry fellows, but I made easy solution to this problem and installed Kerio. Everything went ok and now its running like it should be.
Just can't understand what the h*** is wrong when ZA didn't like to work. If I sometime install os again will I try ZA for a last time, and if it won't work even then would I forget whole Zone labs and will tell everyone that don't mess with them..
What version of Kerio did you install?
Could you read the doggeral's suggestion for 2.1.5 version and not 4... ;)
Thanks for your help. I'm having problems with avast! right now. I had to desinstall and install again... Maybe the trouble was ZA >:(
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What version of Kerio did you install?
Could you read the doggeral's suggestion for 2.1.5 version and not 4... ;)
I installed the latest version straight from Kerio's pages. Version is 4.0.7 and yes, I've read Doggeral's suggestion to get 2.1.5 but I thought it would be rather difficult to find so old version. Also would like to hear why that version is better than newer ones? As far as I can understand usually the newer versions are better, because by the time will be notified bugs that are repaired in newer versions. That can be seen very practically in Windows -if you purchase new windows product you'll have to prepare that by the time you have to download a bunch of updates where bugs are fixed.
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The others have said it is still in a beta stage. Or it is in their opinion. download 2.1.5 from:
http://www.vnunet.com/Download/1131791 (http://www.vnunet.com/Download/1131791)
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Thanks maclover, maybe I have to download that older version too (for just in case..) while I'm waiting doggeral's argumentation of its superiority...
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I desinstall ZA, boot, install Kerio 4.0.7.
Next boot I receive an error message (The service could not be connected or something like this).
avast! freeze (icon stop to swirl).
Now it's working...
I manually start the service and firewall seems to work.
I'll keep posting the results.
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As this thread is about ZoneAlarm, I'll open another to write about Kerio 4.0.7, which brings me a headache today >:(
See here (http://www.avast.com/forum/index.php?board=2;action=display;threadid=1733). >:(
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Thanks maclover, maybe I have to download that older version too (for just in case..) while I'm waiting doggeral's argumentation of its superiority...
Wow never had anyone wait on me before :)
But I need to preface this first. I need to mention that I'm not yet on the bandwagon of "smart" firewalls yet, because I simply don't trust them to do anything but hide configuration from me. I'm not saying this is right for everyone, but this one guy isn't ready to commit the resources to have firewall smartly manage my traffic.
As far as smart firewalls go Kerio 4 can be pretty dumb in some ways. It introduced some issues that were not in 2.1.5, which I find disturbing. It also at 1 point had some default rules that took priorty over everything thus further taking control away.
Not to mention the bugs. Though it is out it just seems way way wayyyy to buggy right now.
So my Kerio 2.15 plug is just because it generally takes longer for firewalls to go out of style than other things. Kerio 2 with all issues is still more than adequate if configured right.
Plus it will smarten you up on firewalls, which in itself is the ultimate protection against problems not mass worthless protection.
On a side note I wish applications would stick to what they do. An antivirus should not have an integrated firewall and a firewall shouldn't start trying to deal with spam and spyware. I say do 1 thing, but do it well and right.
I guess i'm done.
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Thanks maclover, maybe I have to download that older version too (for just in case..) while I'm waiting doggeral's argumentation of its superiority...
Wow never had anyone wait on me before :)
But I need to preface this first. I need to mention that I'm not yet on the bandwagon of "smart" firewalls yet, because I simply don't trust them to do anything but hide configuration from me. I'm not saying this is right for everyone, but this one guy isn't ready to commit the resources to have firewall smartly manage my traffic.
As far as smart firewalls go Kerio 4 can be pretty dumb in some ways. It introduced some issues that were not in 2.1.5, which I find disturbing. It also at 1 point had some default rules that took priorty over everything thus further taking control away.
Not to mention the bugs. Though it is out it just seems way way wayyyy to buggy right now.
So my Kerio 2.15 plug is just because it generally takes longer for firewalls to go out of style than other things. Kerio 2 with all issues is still more than adequate if configured right.
Plus it will smarten you up on firewalls, which in itself is the ultimate protection against problems not mass worthless protection.
On a side note I wish applications would stick to what they do. An antivirus should not have an integrated firewall and a firewall shouldn't start trying to deal with spam and spyware. I say do 1 thing, but do it well and right.
I guess i'm done.
Thanks doggeral. I regreat not waiting for your posts and 'tryed' Kerio 4.0.7 :'( Anyway, I went back to ZoneAlarm. No user wants a bloatware all-in-one Systemworks like application that could not update in the future. A related forum is here (http://www.avast.com/forum/index.php?board=2;action=display;threadid=1733) ;)
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B4349,
Throughout this discussion, several times you referred to disabling avast! and also to reinstalling Zone Alarm. One thing you didn't mention is whether you disabled avast! before installing ZA. I've haunted a lot of forums reading threads about installation problems, and one piece of sage advice is given almost every time: Always disable an AV product before installing software. (This is especially true when doing soemthing "hell scary" like installing Windows updates. :o ) Reportedly, the low-level operations of an AV can interfere with some (poorly written ?) installation routines.
I don't know whether or not you disabled avast! first (or even if it would make a difference if you hadn't), but I thought it worth mentioning. On occasion, I've forgotten to disable NAV prior to an installation and suffered no consequences, but from the hundreds of threads I've read, apparently I was lucky. (I've heard it said that God looks after drunks and fools. ::) )
Regards,
Hornus
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B4349,
Throughout this discussion, several times you referred to disabling avast! and also to reinstalling Zone Alarm. One thing you didn't mention is whether you disabled avast! before installing ZA. I've haunted a lot of forums reading threads about installation problems, and one piece of sage advice is given almost every time: Always disable an AV product before installing software. (This is especially true when doing soemthing "hell scary" like installing Windows updates. :o ) Reportedly, the low-level operations of an AV can interfere with some (poorly written ?) installation routines.
I don't know whether or not you disabled avast! first (or even if it would make a difference if you hadn't), but I thought it worth mentioning. On occasion, I've forgotten to disable NAV prior to an installation and suffered no consequences, but from the hundreds of threads I've read, apparently I was lucky. (I've heard it said that God looks after drunks and fools. ::) )
Regards,
Hornus
Thanks Hornus, but few days ago I reinstall avast! with ZoneAlarm installed and running and everything works fine. Few days ago, I have to do the opposite: I installed ZoneAlarm with avast! running. Ok, again.
Of course, NAV is out of my considerations right now. It usually does the worst job of every antivirus applications (conflicts, poor Windows Registry handling, trash, and so on).
I have no trouble installing Windows Updates with avast! running either ;)
Anyway, the user always can disable the antivirus before installing software for sure ;)