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Other => General Topics => Topic started by: YLAP on November 15, 2005, 10:03:48 PM

Title: Norton Utilities 2002
Post by: YLAP on November 15, 2005, 10:03:48 PM
I have Norton Utilities 2002 in my CD "collection" and I've used it 2 years ago in my old PC with Win98SE. I want to ask is it not too old to use with WinXP SP2 (of course it should be updated via live update), is it worth to use it, and will it work with my beloved avast! ?  :-\ Thanks!  ;)
Title: Re: Norton Utilities 2002
Post by: Lisandro on November 15, 2005, 10:26:05 PM
I think you won't have trouble.
Norton Speed Disk had great improvements since then. The others, well, a bit.
They won't conflict with avast! if you avoid installing NAV.
Title: Re: Norton Utilities 2002
Post by: YLAP on November 15, 2005, 10:31:05 PM
Maybe I'll give a try, as it's retail version... But I'm afraid of name NORTON... Sounds like hell for me!  ;D
Title: Re: Norton Utilities 2002
Post by: Lisandro on November 15, 2005, 10:34:08 PM
Maybe I'll give a try, as it's retail version... But I'm afraid of name NORTON... Sounds like hell for me!  ;D
I know you're joking. Some utilities are very good... Not all Symantec products are bad.
Norton Ghost is an excelent backup.
Norton GoBack doesn't have any competitor in the market.  8)
Title: Re: Norton Utilities 2002
Post by: bob3160 on November 16, 2005, 01:19:43 AM
Quote
Norton GoBack doesn't have any competitor in the market.
And without Norton GoBack, some of us would be doing a lot of FORMAT.  ;D ;D
Title: Re: Norton Utilities 2002
Post by: Lisandro on November 16, 2005, 01:24:01 AM
Quote
Norton GoBack doesn't have any competitor in the market.
And without Norton GoBack, some of us would be doing a lot of FORMAT.  ;D ;D
;D  ;D
Yes, the most I do is s*it... So, GoBack saved me a lot of times and will continue there. I'm tired of testing and regreting to have tested  ;D
It's a pity that some things in life do not have a GoBack buttom  ;)
Title: Re: Norton Utilities 2002
Post by: justin1278 on November 16, 2005, 10:35:12 PM
Norton GO BACK is a good program i just hate their antivirus product. It makes me wonder though if most of symantec's products not all are named Norton than why not change their name to Norton?
Title: Re: Norton Utilities 2002
Post by: DavidR on November 17, 2005, 01:00:54 AM
I think the Norton utilities of the 2002 era was an excellent product, I'm not so sure about later versions though.

I much perfer the regular (weekly) imaging of my HDDs/Partitions and daily back-up of volatile data files (.doc, .xls, email folders, etc.) and I use Drive Image for that, but guess what Symantec bought that from PowerQuest, bummer.

Now they have taken the supposed best bits from Norton Ghost, Drive Image and cobbled them together to produce Norton Ghost 9 (now version 10). Some how I doubt I will be upgrading to the latest one from Symantec/Norton, certainly not while drive image 7 does the business. I just have this aversion to Norton, largely due to NAV and I just get the shivers that other products could be like it ;D

Unreasonable perhaps, I just find it hard to trust my computer to a company that I feel got it so wrong with NAV.
Title: Re: Norton Utilities 2002
Post by: YLAP on November 17, 2005, 05:03:39 AM
I liked Norton utilities 2002 but... no updates available. It left the same "as it was" in my CD. So... Norton System Works 2005 is here.  ;D Without NAV of course. I like go, turned my system restore of as seems this one does it's job better.
Title: Re: Norton Utilities 2002
Post by: Mastertech on November 19, 2005, 01:45:01 PM
I would not recommend using it on Windows XP especially a dated version like that, Norton WinDoctor fixes can cause more problem then it is worth, Norton Disk Doctor does nothing Chkdsk does not, Windows XP comes with System Restore which is what GoBack is, Norton AntiVirus is a Dog use Avast and Diskeeper is a better defragmenter then Speeddisk. IMO Norton Utilities are a waste of time. The last time I recommended them was back in DOS 6.22. Symantec products have become massive bloatware. Just bizarre uninstall issues with NAV is enough reason I would never recommend them to anyone.
Title: Re: Norton Utilities 2002
Post by: bob3160 on November 19, 2005, 03:06:37 PM
Hi Mastertech
Quote
Windows XP comes with System Restore which is what GoBack is
The biggest difference between System Restore and Goback is :
Norton GoBack always works (98%) :)
Systen Restore usually doesn't work when you need it most. (70%) :(
Title: Re: Norton Utilities 2002
Post by: YLAP on November 19, 2005, 04:37:23 PM
Mastertech, you are right in some way...  :-\ I've messed all my system with this peace of sh**  :-\ Clean install - avast and Diskeeper Pro as two days before!  ;D
Title: Re: Norton Utilities 2002
Post by: Lisandro on November 20, 2005, 02:17:43 PM
Windows XP comes with System Restore which is what GoBack is
You don't know what you're talking or you never tested GoBack.
Definetively, it's not the same, neither close one of the other.
GoBack works. System Restore just use disk space...  :P
The other utilities have similar. GoBack does not have a similar one.
Norton WinDoctor never brings me trouble.
There are better defragmenters than Norton Speed Disk. No one (that I've found) has the possibility to configure which files you want in which part of the HDD (or partition): first, at the end, end of the disk, etc.

Norton Utilities aren't a waste of time, imo.
But, for sure, Symantec products have become bloatware, specially NAV does not work as we want...
Title: Re: Norton Utilities 2002
Post by: Mastertech on November 20, 2005, 02:29:39 PM
 ::) System Restore Works, you set a restore point and you can roll back to that point. I've never had a problem with, it works fine especially considering the majority of times if at all you just need to roll back a driver. System Restore works. If you have to keep rolling back your system something else is seriously wrong or you are completely careless. I have four computers and out of them I have had to roll exactly one back in 4 years due to a mouse driver.

Windoctor can "fix" things by linking them to the wrong file.

Speed Disk is incredibly slow.
Title: Re: Norton Utilities 2002
Post by: DavidR on November 20, 2005, 02:52:56 PM
This exactly what Tech is saying (not wishing to put words in his mouth) system restore isn't good for heavy duty restore tasks, hell even MS say the same.

There are many, many reasons why a System Restore may fail. For example, see "Why are previous restore points not working?" in the "Troubleshooting" section of this official Microsoft page:
http://www.microsoft.com/technet/prodtechnol/winxppro/plan/faqsrwxp.mspx

There's lots more on that page that's worth reading too. Note especially the sections on  "What should I do if System Restore does not work?"; "Why are my restore points missing or deleted?"; "Why does the System Restore Wizard lockup?"; and so on. Just a few minutes on that page ought to convince just about anyone that System Restore is not intended for heavy-duty system protection!

You personally may not have had any problems with system restore, neither have I, but many others have (obviously enough for MS to have a page about it), there are even examples of people having problems system restore failing on these forums that I remember.

I have it totally disabled and why is that because if it can't be relied upon 100% as MS says then I will look for other solutions. I went for regular partition images that take minutes to create and restore, If I'm going to try something that I don't want to have a gap to my last weekly image, I would create a new on. Tech has chosen GoBack as his alternative to system restore.
Title: Re: Norton Utilities 2002
Post by: Lisandro on November 20, 2005, 02:53:43 PM
System Restore Works, you set a restore point and you can roll back to that point.
You can only roll back your system for drivers, nothing more: third party programs, crashes (not due to drivers), etc.

Windoctor can "fix" things by linking them to the wrong file.
You're right. Manual and brain work needed here.

Speed Disk is incredibly slow.
Ok. Speed is not the best of Speed Disk  ;D
Title: Re: Norton Utilities 2002
Post by: bob3160 on November 20, 2005, 04:13:34 PM
The Microsoft solution isn't always the best solution.
When it comes to System Restore, MS doesn't even come close to the reliability and
dependability of Norton's GoBack. There are however times that even GoBack isn't the answer
and a regular Image or other back-up regiment needs to be relied on for absolute safety.
Title: Re: Norton Utilities 2002
Post by: Lisandro on November 20, 2005, 08:19:28 PM
There are however times that even GoBack isn't the answer
Too many intensive use of the HDD (virus scanning, defragmenting, for instance), large downloads of P2P applications, etc.
In these times, use the SafeTry Method to start GoBack history  ;)
Title: Re: Norton Utilities 2002
Post by: scaa on November 21, 2005, 04:59:05 AM
Maybe I'll give a try, as it's retail version... But I'm afraid of name NORTON... Sounds like hell for me!  ;D
I know you're joking. Some utilities are very good... Not all Symantec products are bad.
Norton Ghost is an excelent backup.
Norton GoBack doesn't have any competitor in the market.  8)


I think Farstone's Restore It is a very good programme
Title: Re: Norton Utilities 2002
Post by: Lisandro on November 21, 2005, 05:18:00 PM
I think Farstone's Restore It is a very good programme
You're fully right... There are competitors.
Unfortunatelly, I never tested it  ::)

http://www.farstone.com/home/ensite/products/restoreit-pro.shtml
Title: Re: Norton Utilities 2002
Post by: Mastertech on November 22, 2005, 03:33:47 PM
XP's system restore works fine. The only thing it does not monitor is user related files but anything critical to getting your system back to a working state is included.

Microsoft includes troubleshooting documentation for all it's software. That is not proof it does not work. All serious problems are fixed via the service packs the rest are the exact same things that can cause Goback to not work.

It makes no sense to waste money on unnecessary software.
Title: Re: Norton Utilities 2002
Post by: Lisandro on November 22, 2005, 05:44:51 PM
The only thing it does not monitor is user related files
Thanks Microsoft!

It makes no sense to waste money on unnecessary software.
Are you talking seriously?
Don't we have the right to buy the software we need.
Can't you find a more antipathic way to post your opinion?
Title: Re: Norton Utilities 2002
Post by: polonus on November 22, 2005, 07:34:02 PM
Hi folks,

Ever wondered why some functions in MS are "undefined". Well that is the point.

greets,

polonus
Title: Re: Norton Utilities 2002
Post by: Mastertech on November 23, 2005, 01:10:02 AM
Everyone is free to buy whatever they want, the point is do you need it? I service alot of clients computers and System Restore works in the cases it can help. The far majority of cases are serious problems such as hardware failure or severe virus infection, things GoBack cannot even help.

Sure GoBack lets you roll back changes even to your personal files but is there where the majority of problems are or is it at the system level?
Title: Re: Norton Utilities 2002
Post by: bob3160 on November 23, 2005, 03:17:32 AM
GoBack not only rolls back your person files but also rolls back system files. It virtually takes you back to the time you decide. (With-in reason)

Title: Re: Norton Utilities 2002
Post by: Mastertech on November 23, 2005, 03:36:26 AM
That is effectively what System Restore minus the personal files. It puts your system back to the state it was in at the date and time the restore point was made.
Title: Re: Norton Utilities 2002
Post by: bob3160 on November 23, 2005, 05:42:44 AM
Quote
It puts your system back to the state it was in at the date and time the restore point was made.
GoBack constantly monitors your system changes and if I need to go back 20 min or 30 min etc than that's what I select.
That's not possible with System Restore unless I want to manually create a restore point every few minutes which simply
isn't practicle.
In my opinion, System Restore is better than not having anything but, there are better alternatives. :)
Title: Re: Norton Utilities 2002
Post by: Lisandro on November 23, 2005, 11:57:56 AM
In my opinion, System Restore is better than not having anything but, there are better alternatives. :)
Bob, I was trying to say this since from the begginning...  :-*
Title: Re: Norton Utilities 2002
Post by: bob3160 on November 23, 2005, 01:48:44 PM
Technical,
 :) ;D :)
Title: Re: Norton Utilities 2002
Post by: Lisandro on November 23, 2005, 03:46:21 PM
Technical,
 :) ;D :)
Bob you're great, we can understand each other just changing smiles  ;D  8)
Title: Re: Norton Utilities 2002
Post by: Mastertech on November 24, 2005, 05:23:16 AM
That is the thing though I don't understand why you would have to revert your system back to how it was 20 minutes ago? I personally never use System Restore and rarely if ever use it on a clients machine. But the few times I have it worked fine. The average user would only need to revert to the last working state if something went catostrophically wrong, some rare instance of severe driver corruption that renders a piece of hardware unusable or Windows cannot boot. In all cases outside of hardware failure, I've been able to correct the problem in safe mode without restoring to a previous state. For a novice user it is easier to just revert back.

For the average user they have no need for software that does something they have no use for.

As for Norton Utilities, there isn't a single thing in the package that the average user would use that their is not a better alternative.

I generally prefer people not use System Restore or an restoration software and resolve the real cause of the problem. Since people carelessly revert back for no reason.

I suspect part of the reason people think they need this type of software is due to other reasons. I have largely seen people with unstable systems that are overclocked or misconfigured or have defective hardware. They misassociate problems with their system as a Windows problem.
Title: Re: Norton Utilities 2002
Post by: polonus on November 24, 2005, 07:30:51 AM
Hi Mastertech,

I agree with you in this respect that restore programs, like RestoreIt should be there only as a last resort. I think nobody in his or her right mind would carelessly restore a computer to a previous setting. But I got RestoreIt on my computer and I can well tell you that I thanked the day that I installed it (it was a present of my wife's). Not all problems are that easily resolved for instance when some software does something inconceivable to the OS that you do not want or comprehend at once (all the dates of your mails in your inbox  regrouped or randomized for instance is a good example here), back-up all your present data and logs, analyze the situation and then use this sort of program for the reason it was made. Mastertech, I think the firm that makes restore programs is not going to hire you in the foreseeable future (hi-hi).

regards,

polonus
Title: Re: Norton Utilities 2002
Post by: Mastertech on November 24, 2005, 07:42:39 AM
Quote
all the dates of your mails in your inbox  regrouped or randomized for instance is a good example here
This is a good example. Why did this happen? What caused it? I would want to know so it does not happen again. I agree that it can save time for those who do not want to figure it out but my point is what is there to prevent this from happening again?

I've seen sever system problems covered up because people keep doing things like restoring or reformating and reinstalling the OS. The whole time they had a system with defective hardware. Windows 2000 and XP should be 100% stable, if not something is seriously wrong with your system or configuration. Overclockers frequently have "problems".

I wonder if this is the case that users who use Norton Utilities also use GoBack? Since I have seen quite a few instances where WinDoctor "fixed" things by incorrectly linking the wrong files to the wrong registry location. This happens too with some junky registry cleaning applications that delete good registry entries. Or really bad utilities that "compress" the registry ect...
Title: Re: Norton Utilities 2002
Post by: polonus on November 24, 2005, 07:58:27 AM
Hi Mastertech,

I tell you about this good example. Please do not try to replicate the situation, because you land in a mess then. It can happen when you try to scan with a non-resident anti-virus scanner (I won't name the free software here) Outlook Express files as they are situated in program files, you have to open them and you losse the sequence there (do not ask me how and why?). These things happen when you try to do something the programmers did not foresee, and this is bound to happen while programnmers of external software do not know all (or enough) about the inner workings of the OS software used. That is also a reason why patented software as proposed would be hindering solving these problems in the future. Well I am not going to replicate this situation, but I was glad I had RestoreIt to safe my glorious behind here. RestoreIt is that accurate, that when you restore to a BSOD situation, it repeats that with the accompanying scandisk log files.

greets,

polonus