Avast WEBforum
Other => General Topics => Topic started by: SteveD on January 23, 2006, 08:16:30 PM
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Hi,
I have recently installed V 4.6 and it seems fine so far. (I previously used Norton Int. Security 2005 & systemworks 2005 and had just too many problems that crippled my laptop and made Office (2000)unusable. (The result of a corrupt file in an update download!!).
My question is, although I am currently using the Windows Firewall, I realize this is weak to say the least; do I need to replace this with something else & if so what recommendations are there out there that is compatable. I have tried zone alarm pro (trial) and it caused issues like Norton. Also, any suggestions for a spam filter (outlook 2000)? I have tried McAffees but was not too impressed (but then I was still having the Zone Alarm problems at that time.)
Any help & suggestions will be much appreciated.
(Thanks for CharlieO for directing me to the right part of the forum for this post!)
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The Windows XP SP2 Firewall is perfectly fine. Just make sure you have SP2 installed! Otherwise check out Zonealarm but you will take some performance hit with any third party firewall. Definitely move away from Norton Products.
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Hi SteveD,
No the firewall in Windows XP SP2 is not perfectly fine, it can at the utmost be termed as acceptable. The inward protection is fine, but the other way around this is not so. This will first be realized in Vista where Windows will present a more complete firewall protection, important for stopping malicious nodes that seek a way out.
polonus
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You have to be infected with something before worrying about something leaving your system. For the average user it is perfectly fine since all attacks originate on the outside. Simply don't allow exceptions.
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Windows firewall is okay, but it's primarily for inbound protection, like Visnetic/Deerfield, Ghostwall, and some others.
I use ZA free at the moment and notice very little hit on my resources. If you don't mind paying, LooknStop is an excellent firewall, very light on resources, and worth checking out.
Personally, I like the latest ZA free. I'm running an older machine, 1.3 AMD Athlon and 512 RAM and have no complaints. ZA Pro hits me a bit harder, plus causes some sort of conflict with AVAST so I haven't enabled my license for ZA Pro.
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I think if you have an up to date anti virus (avast!) and applications to deal with spyware windows firewall is fine - I've never had any problems with it. Currently, I'm using comodo firewall, which is free. I would recommend this for general users, but if you use a lot of programs that require port forwarding (ie. p2p programs and bittorrent) it is not recommended.
Hope this helps!
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Thanks to both Mastertec & Polonus,
I must admit my impression was that windows firewall only did the incoming aspect.
I am fully patched with SP2 and all other updates including Media player and office updates.
So; if Windows firewall is limited what really works?
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Steve, I would recommend that you get another firewall, paid for version or a free version to use on your pc. The windows built in firewall is adequate only for incoming occurrences. Anything that might be requested from your pc "outbound wise" needs a firewall that can block the "outbound" request. Wins XP firewall does not do this. Use your own judgement irregardless of what you may read in this thread, but I definitely would consider a 3rd party firewall for adequate protection. :)
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fair comment Mastertec.
Thanks Chuck58, I tried ZA pro on trial and it caused me to lose access to the whole of Office (2000) and gave me an unstable "windows subsystem" error; but I have not tried the free version.
Hi Staind, I've not come across that one, but I'll bear it in mind.
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Actually, not all infections of malware come through the firewall. That happens only if you download something from the internet.
You can also get maleware from cd's that you load into your computer ... whether they be bought commercially or one made by someone who gives you the cd(s) to use. In this way, malware is now on your computer and can go out to the internet giving out info about your computer, your browsing habits or, worse yet, personal info.
Please be safe and use another firewall in addition to the Windows firewall.
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Hi neal63,
I'm inclined to agree that I need something a little more "robust". ZA free seems the most popular choice so far...unless there are any other opinions??
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Hi again CharlieO,
a good point and one I am careful to be proactive about!
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Actually, not all infections of malware come through the firewall. That happens only if you download something from the internet.
You can also get maleware from cd's that you load into your computer ... whether they be bought commercially or one made by someone who gives you the cd(s) to use. In this way, malware is now on your computer and can go out to the internet giving out info about your computer, your browsing habits or, worse yet, personal info.
Please be safe and use another firewall in addition to the Windows firewall.
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Very true. My last computer, a brand new HP with Win XP, had IAMBIGBROTHER keylogger installed on it. I found it immediately, before even going online, when I installed SpyBot S&D.
I reported it to HP and they denied having anything to do with it, and contacted CompUSA where I got the computer. They too pled innocent. The moral, I guess, trust nothing.
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Well Steved I use Comodo free firewall. Haven't had any problems with it on MY computer. I am using WinsXP Home, SP2 etc, etc, etc. It's not a watered down firewall like some of the other free firewall choices end up being. You may want to at least go to their website and check out the product. :) Of course this is just My opinion on the matter. :)
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Thanks Neal63,
I just flicked over to their site & will have a better look in a moment; have you any comments on their anti-spam download & if so does it intigrate with Outlook 2000. If not I will look at their site later when I have a little more time.
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Hi Neal and SteveD,
Of course the Windows XP SP2 firewall is better than none, but malicious nodes that land on your computer unnoticed and unwanted are throughout possible, and you do not want anything unwanted phoning home, not even when it is tracking you.
MasterTech knows full well that we have to wait until the end of the year for a fullgrown firewall solution in the new Vista together with UAP.
polonus
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I don't know anything about their anti spam Steve. You may just want to read up on it at their site. Can't say anything good or bad about the spam product they have, sorry. ;D
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Hi Polonus,
Yes, that's definitely true. I am a believer in being "Better safe, than Sorry". Doesn't cost much if anything to be that way and can keep your pc from having operating problems caused by Malware. :)
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Thanks guys,
Comodo reads well, & given I had problems with ZA pro, I'm a little cautious to try their free version so so far it seems the best bet.
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Are you paranoid? Then yes use a third party firewall. If you want protection against the main problem inbound attacks then you can safely use the XP firewall. Just check your exceptions and for full protection do not allow any.
SP2 updates the XP firewall to provide rock solid inbound protection. No it does not provide outbound protection but for a program to access your system remotely it has to return inbound which it will block.
The free version of Zonealarm Free is perfectly fine. It is also the easiest to use of all third party firewalls.
One of the leading causes of Internet Connectivity problems is a misconfigured firewall. Outbound protection requires time consuming management that for the average user is simply not necessary. They also consume additional overhead.
FYI if you have a router their is a good chance you already have a very good hardware firewall.
But there is absolutely nothing wrong with the XP SP2 firewall for protection.
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Hi Mastertech,
But why would Microsoft change the built in firewall solution for Vista, if there was no need for it. It is a bit contradictory to what you say, because the avarage user will have a Microsoft firewall solution that works two ways there, and if I go Vista I will welcome that.
polonus
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"Just because you're paranoid..it doesn't mean their not out to get you"!
I simply can not afford the time to waste on having to deal with some intelligent fool with a chip on his / her shoulder who decides that for fun or gain they want to access my computer; I'd rather be preventative in the first place Mastertec.
Sorry if this approach frustrates you. :(
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#1 there is no proof that it will be two-way only "vague references"
#2 If they do add it, it will most likely be very automated and extremely easy to use. Something current third party firewalls are not for the average user. Zonealarm comes close.
But that is not the point, they did not include it with XP because it is rarely necessary for the average user.
I simply can not afford the time to waste on having to deal with some intelligent fool with a chip on his / her shoulder who decides that for fun or gain they want to access my computer; I'd rather be preventative in the first place Mastertec.
Which you do with the XP SP2 Firewall!! No one can access your computer if you block INBOUND access!! This the problem, people promote third party firewalls as if outbound protection and inbound protection are the same thing. There is nothing wrong with the XP SP2 firewall it will block all malicious inbound attacks.
Yes third party firewalls block outbound access (after you are infected with something) but no "Hacker" will gain any more access to your system from the outside using the XP SP2 Firewall or any other one.
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A true old saying goes ... "An ounce of prevention equals a pound of cure."
In this case, a good 2-way firewall equals a more secure computer.
No, I did not say most secure; just more secure ... more secure than without the security that is available for free. Although, we want our computers & personal info to be the most secure they can be.
Outbound protection requires time consuming management ...
What time? Setting up most free firewalls (ZA Free, in particular) takes at most 5 mins and after that, I have never had to loose time with it unless I wanted to do so.
One does not have to be paranoid to want security on the internet.
After all, that's why we are here on this forum. :)
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Time allowing program access or ports. If you set outbound protection to automatic, you might as well not have it at all. Also most people are easily fooled by outbound spyware programs with cleaver names. I have clients with ZoneAlarm, and it was useless for outbound access, they simply allowed everything.
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Hi Mastertech,
But why a hacker, the avarage user will never see those. When was the last time that your system was compromised by a hacker, then the only thing left to do if you were backdoored and what have you, is getting your system back up in a non-compromised state. No most avarage users are victims of unsollicited and sneaky drive-by installations taken aboard by the biggest hole, the person behind the keyboard, and if that has landed or is downloaded and wants to phone home
Windows XP SP2 firewall cant help you. If you lived in an ideal world this would not be so, alas we do not live in it,
polonus
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Giving Mastertech one week 'banana' for constant flamebaiting. ;D
I think he's been warned before.
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:) Steve D :
I am in the group that likes a software firewall on a
computer; you should also consider one that works well
with Avast on a machine. I use the FREE, but currently
"unsupported" former Sygate ( now abandoned by
Symantec who bought them out ) Free available at :
www.spychecker.com/program/sygatefw.html
There are LOTS of choices at :
www.spychecker.com/software/firewall.html
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Hi Mastertech,
If outbound protection isn't important, then why is MS adding it to the Win Firewall in Vista?
Outbound protection must have some validity otherwise, why bother? :)
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Nice post, Spiritsongs ... with that firewall list, Steve should be able to decide for himself which firewall is best for him. :)
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Another vote for ZA free ;)
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I must agree that outbound connection is a needful thing! Just let me say that one of my friends bought a computer with built in windows and a couple of dialers!!
Since he is unexpirienced user he told me:
I was trying to establish a connection to surf a little but I can't say that I've dialed these numbers:
example: +0087687 877444
example: +5464332132 333
I rest my case!!
P.S. Go, Go, for Zone Alarm, the Mecca of easy to use and protect you firewalls :)
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Hi Steve,
It looks like you've already decided to install a third party, two-way firewall. I applaud your wisdom. There are several good ones, some easier to set up and some harder but offering tighter security. My choice has been Zone Alarm Free; I find it adequate for my needs and easier than most to set up. You might make a different choice but by all means do choose.
There are those on these boards whose goal is to confuse; who's primary form of communication is argument. They will remain perpetually unconvinced because agreement is not in them.
Just go with your good judgment.
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Linux
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Linux
Thought that was an OS? ???
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Linux
Thought that was an OS? ???
There's a large variety to choose for though (http://www2.lut.fi/~junousia/hymiot/think/serlokki6ld.gif)
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An experiment you can try the next time you load an OEM version of any Windows OS on a clean computer. Before you go online install SpybotS&D and AdAware from a CD or USB stick and run them. You will be surprised to find several pieces of spyware already on the machine ready to call out before you even go online. This is why you need something more than the Windows firewall. Only use the Windows firewall until you can install a third party application. I have used ZA and Sygate with excellent results. If you are behind a router it will make the work of the firewall much easier, but a software firewall is still needed.
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Linux
Thought that was an OS? ???
http://www.yolinux.com/TUTORIALS/LinuxTutorialIptablesNetworkGateway.html
http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,11192146~mode=flat
Just a couple of examples. The best firewall to have is one through a linux box. The Linux OS has the capabilities built in and is superior to out-of-the-box Windows firewalls. Some people use a old PC just for a linux box firewall at home with something as simple as a bootable CD or even a floppy diskette.
BTW, as a stand alone Linux OS installed on a single PC you really don't need a third party firewall, anti-spyware, or anti-virus software. If you were to install something like SuSe, Mandriva, or Fedora Linux on your machine you would be bored to death because there is nothing to check as far as security goes. The only thing you can scan for would be rogue Window based virus, trojans, and so forth that are harmless to Linux. About the only way you would get one of these files on a Linux machine is in your email inbox. And there it would lie, dumb as a bag of hammers, with no place to go and nothing to do.
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The best firewall to have is one through a linux box. The Linux OS has the capabilities built in and is superior to out-of-the-box Windows firewalls. Some people use a old PC just for a linux box firewall at home with something as simple as a bootable CD or even a floppy diskette.
I use Smoothwall (http://www.smoothwall.org) on an older computer to act as my firewall.
Other options include IPCop (http://www.ipcop.org) and ClarkConnect (http://www.clarkconnect.com).
I am so confident in it that I only use Windows XP SP2's firewall on my machines. Although I really like NetVeda's Safety.Net (http://www.netveda.com/consumer/safetynet.html) firewall.
BTW, as a stand alone Linux OS installed on a single PC you really don't need a third party firewall, anti-spyware, or anti-virus software. If you were to install something like SuSe, Mandriva, or Fedora Linux on your machine you would be bored to death because there is nothing to check as far as security goes. The only thing you can scan for would be rogue Window based virus, trojans, and so forth that are harmless to Linux. About the only way you would get one of these files on a Linux machine is in your email inbox. And there it would lie, dumb as a bag of hammers, with no place to go and nothing to do.
Agreed.
Most distros these days have inbound firewalls enabled by default, or at least have the option of turning it on.
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Just wanted to say a big thank you to all who contributed to my "firewall" thread... I will check out the options, make a short list and try a few before making a final decision. It is great to find a forum where a real exchange of views is made and people are willing to help out- thanks again all!
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I vote for Comodo Personal Firewall. :)