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Other => General Topics => Topic started by: FreewheelinFrank on January 18, 2007, 03:58:00 PM

Title: Networking two computers- help please!
Post by: FreewheelinFrank on January 18, 2007, 03:58:00 PM
I'm trying to connect a newly acquired computer  to my old computer via a crossover network cable to transfer some large folders of pictures, music, web pages plus other documents- the CD on the old computer is not working, so burning them to CD is not an option.

Following some advice I found on the web, I put in the following IP addresses in the properties of each LAN connection:

1st comp: 192.168.1.1
2nd computer: 192.168.1.2
Subnet Mask: 255.255.255.0 for both computers.

Both LAN connections now show connected, but I can't see the other computer from either computer.

I've tried running the network wizard several times, and have tried disabling the firewall on both computers. (Internet connection off, of course.)

Anybody got any idea what I'm doing wrong?  ???

Any help greatly appreciated!

Cheers,

FwF
Title: Re: Networking two computers- help please!
Post by: bob3160 on January 18, 2007, 05:28:39 PM
This might make your life a little easier:
http://forum.avast.com/index.php?topic=16849.msg206317#msg206317
Title: Re: Networking two computers- help please!
Post by: DukeNukem on January 18, 2007, 06:01:10 PM
Have you shared any folders on either computer?



Title: Re: Networking two computers- help please!
Post by: FreewheelinFrank on January 18, 2007, 06:16:22 PM
I've enabled sharing on 'My Documents' on both computers.

I've tried pinging and that seems to work with data sent and returned.

Currently trying pulling my hair out in clumps and kicking the cat!  :P
Title: Re: Networking two computers- help please!
Post by: DukeNukem on January 18, 2007, 06:47:44 PM
Right click on "My Network Places"

Select "search for computers...."

Assuming you're using pc 1 (192.168.1.1) in the computer name box type

192.168.1.2

and click on search.

See if it comes up.


Title: Re: Networking two computers- help please!
Post by: FreewheelinFrank on January 18, 2007, 06:57:14 PM
No luck. The computer wasn't found.
Title: Re: Networking two computers- help please!
Post by: Lisandro on January 18, 2007, 07:09:44 PM
I was trying to help a friend with the same problem...
I'm curious about any solution.
Windows XP SP2 Home + avast + Windows firewall off
He can ping  :'(
He's using a hub with 3 computers, IP and subnet mask are ok.
The name of the Computer Group is the same  ::)
Title: Re: Networking two computers- help please!
Post by: DukeNukem on January 18, 2007, 07:12:29 PM
Are the default gateway and DNS server ip address fields empty?
Title: Re: Networking two computers- help please!
Post by: FreewheelinFrank on January 18, 2007, 07:15:12 PM
Yes, both empty.
Title: Re: Networking two computers- help please!
Post by: Lisandro on January 18, 2007, 07:17:03 PM
Are the default gateway and DNS server ip address fields empty?
In my (his) case too  8)
Title: Re: Networking two computers- help please!
Post by: xistenz on January 18, 2007, 08:08:41 PM
can you open My Computer and type in

Code: [Select]
\\192.168.1.1
from the 192.168.1.2 computer. This should take you straight to the shared folders on the other computer, if it doesn't, then there may be a problem elsewhere
Title: Re: Networking two computers- help please!
Post by: bob3160 on January 18, 2007, 09:28:48 PM
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v190/bob3160/ShellFTP/NWM.png)
Title: Re: Networking two computers- help please!
Post by: Mastertech on January 19, 2007, 01:40:40 AM
1. The following services need to be set to automatic and reboot:

Network Connections
Workgroup
Server
Computer Browser
TCP/IP NetBIOS Helper

2. Both computers need to have the exact same workgroup name.

3. Both computers need to have a unique computer name.

4. Both computers need to use a non-routable IP:

10.0.0.0 – 10.255.255.255
172.16.0.0 – 172.31.255.255
192.168.0.0 – 192.168.255.255

5. Your network connection needs to have the following present:

Client for Microsoft Networks
File and Print Sharing for Microsoft Networks
Internet Protocol (TCP/IP)

6. You need to share something on both machines to see something other than the computer name.

7. You need to create the same exact user account and password on both machines. (This needs to be done on any XP Pro computer with Simple File Sharing Disabled).

Simple File Sharing is always enabled on Windows XP Home and cannot be turned off, on XP it is on by default when connected to a workgroup. This activates the guest account and allows anyone who connects to your LAN access to you shares. With it turned off only those with the correct user name and password can access your shares. This is much more secure.

The Windows XP SP2 filewall automatically enables an exception for file and print sharing. It is highly recommended to leave this exception instead of turning off the firewall completely.


The networking wizards are useless.
Title: Re: Networking two computers- help please!
Post by: Lisandro on January 19, 2007, 01:56:32 AM
7. You need to create the same exact user account on both machines in XP.
This shouldn't be this way... There is no meaning, in my opinion, that you need to do it...
The two computers has independent policies... the same name shouldn't never be a must-have option...

I'll check all other points with my friend tomorrow. Thanks.
Title: Re: Networking two computers- help please!
Post by: Mastertech on January 19, 2007, 02:07:25 AM
I thought you were the guys who were unable to get this to work? I have been networking XP since it came out.
Title: Re: Networking two computers- help please!
Post by: Lisandro on January 19, 2007, 02:10:43 AM
I thought you were the guys who were unable to get this to work? I have been networking XP since it came out.
I generally give good answers in order the user be happy and the things start to work.
I don't like sarcasm.
Title: Re: Networking two computers- help please!
Post by: bob3160 on January 19, 2007, 02:13:14 AM
Quote
7. You need to create the same exact user account on both machines in XP.
Gee my two computers must be exceptions...
They don't have the same user accounts and work quite well.
Title: Re: Networking two computers- help please!
Post by: Mastertech on January 19, 2007, 02:16:12 AM
I generally give good answers in order the user be happy and the things start to work. I don't like sarcasm.
I don't like people who don't know what they are doing but question those who do.

Gee my two computers must be exceptions...
They don't have the same user accounts and work quite well.
You probably have simple file sharing enabled (security risk) or XP Home.
Title: Re: Networking two computers- help please!
Post by: Lisandro on January 19, 2007, 02:22:03 AM
I don't like people who don't know what they are doing but question those who do.
Who are you? For sure the one who don't know what you're doing...
I'm not that stupid that think I know everything  :P

Gee my two computers must be exceptions...
You probably have simple file sharing enabled (security risk) or XP Home.
I've posted my friend has XP Home before  ::)
Title: Re: Networking two computers- help please!
Post by: Mastertech on January 19, 2007, 02:23:23 AM
I'm not the one who can't get two computers networked with XP.
Title: Re: Networking two computers- help please!
Post by: Lisandro on January 19, 2007, 02:25:16 AM
I'm not the one who can't get two computers networked with XP.
I've forgotten you're the troll of every thread  8)

P.S. I'm going to bed. I don't want to discuss with a troll.
Title: Re: Networking two computers- help please!
Post by: Mastertech on January 19, 2007, 02:28:27 AM
Please stop learning how things work and keep arguing about things you do not understand. Yes I am such a troll for providing the solution to someone's problem. ::)
Title: Re: Networking two computers- help please!
Post by: Mastertech on January 19, 2007, 02:49:58 AM
I updated the instructions to be more clear.
Title: Re: Networking two computers- help please!
Post by: galooma on January 19, 2007, 07:43:57 AM
for a minute there I thought andrew was actually (finally) trying to help someone. What the ? :-X

If I were in your situation Frank i would get my hands on a USB drive .

Unless you prefer to have a permanent network then it might be worth the trouble .
good luck
Title: Re: Networking two computers- help please!
Post by: kubecj on January 19, 2007, 09:30:16 AM
My only comment is now just: PLONK!

Mastertech's Tour de Troll is now over.
Title: Re: Networking two computers- help please!
Post by: FreewheelinFrank on January 19, 2007, 10:44:30 AM
Cloussau:

I've just persuaded my wife to buy the new computer. A USB drive would have been pushing it!

The £5 cable wasn't a problem.

*The old computer is USB1 too: transferring the files would take about 3+ hours.

Mastertech:

Thanks for the advice: I'll look into it. But there was no need for the comments. I spent last evening with my mate from school who has a degree in electronic engineering, worked for IBM for years in networking, spent the last few years doing computer course after computer course and now works in IT support for the local university- and he couldn't get it to work!
Title: Re: Networking two computers- help please!
Post by: FreewheelinFrank on January 19, 2007, 02:11:38 PM
I still seem to be stuck here, so if anybody has any further advice...

Both computers have a LAN connection in the notification area and can ping each other.

The new computer can see itself on the network but not the old computer.

The old computer curiously can't even see itself- nothing in My Network Places or Explorer>Tools>Map Network drive.
Title: Re: Networking two computers- help please!
Post by: mauserme on January 19, 2007, 02:17:56 PM
7. You need to create the same exact user account and password on both machines. (This needs to be done on any XP Pro computer with Simple File Sharing Disabled).

Simple File Sharing is always enabled on Windows XP Home and cannot be turned off, on XP it is on by default when connected to a workgroup. This activates the guest account and allows anyone who connects to your LAN access to you shares. With it turned off only those with the correct user name and password can access your shares. This is much more secure.
Just my $00000.02, but I agree with Mastertech on this for XP Pro.

... I thought andrew was ... trying to help someone. 
Me too.
Title: Re: Networking two computers- help please!
Post by: OrangeCrate on January 19, 2007, 02:47:22 PM
... I thought andrew was ... trying to help someone. 
Me too.

In all fairness, that's not what Cloussau said. This is what he said:

for a minute there I thought andrew was actually (finally) trying to help someone. What the ? :-X
Title: Re: Networking two computers- help please!
Post by: mauserme on January 19, 2007, 04:13:40 PM
My apologies if I changed his meaning.  I thought I paraphrased correctly  :)
Title: Re: Networking two computers- help please!
Post by: bob3160 on January 19, 2007, 07:36:50 PM
FFW and Tech,
Have either of you checked out the solution I offered right in beginning?
Title: Re: Networking two computers- help please!
Post by: FreewheelinFrank on January 19, 2007, 08:50:34 PM
Hi Bob.

I'm assuming that if the computers can't see each other, then the program probably won't help.

I've managed to get the old computer to see itself, but the two computers still can't see each other.

I'm going to do a little more research and see if I can find an answer. I'll keep your program up my sleeve to try later if I don't have any success!
Title: Re: Networking two computers- help please!
Post by: DavidR on January 19, 2007, 09:05:18 PM
http://www.google.com/search?q=networking+basics

http://www.google.com/search?q=networking+tutorials

Sorry I can't offer any advice on this I have only ever had one system at a time. Many of my services are disabled using the blackviper guide and I would have to look for what services are required for networking.
Title: Re: Networking two computers- help please!
Post by: Lisandro on January 19, 2007, 09:10:07 PM
FFW and Tech,
Have either of you checked out the solution I offered right in beginning?
Bob, I've tested but it will only work in a network with a router and connected to the Internet.
My friend's home network has three computers without Internet access.
By the way, I've tested and fulfill all options posted by Mastertech.
Still without network... there must be something else we're not finding...
Title: Re: Networking two computers- help please!
Post by: mauserme on January 20, 2007, 12:04:16 AM
I know this is avoiding the real issue but would it be easier to put a switch in the network and avoid the hassles?  They're inexpensive these days.
Title: Re: Networking two computers- help please!
Post by: bob3160 on January 20, 2007, 12:26:14 AM
Quote
Bob, I've tested but it will only work in a network with a router and connected to the Internet.
Tech,
It supports routers but you don't need one to set up your network...
http://www.networkmagic.com/product/
Title: Re: Networking two computers- help please!
Post by: Lisandro on January 20, 2007, 01:38:13 AM
It supports routers but you don't need one to set up your network...
What I've seen in his computer is that I can't 'start' the program if it doesn't find a router... The program stopped at the very first wizard being running...
No way, caput, nothing... maybe I'll test on Monday again. Thanks Bob.
What I really want is a full check-list of networking management. I've tried all solutions and he is about to format and start again 3 computers  :(
Title: Re: Networking two computers- help please!
Post by: DavidR on January 20, 2007, 02:43:17 AM
I know a friend had some problems setting up his peer to peer network and I think it related to using the wrong cable a cat5 cable (standard network cable) when it should have been a crossover cable.

Would something like a crossover cable and something like the old laplink software.

http://www.tucows.com/search?search_terms=pc+transfer&search_scope=win&search_adv=0&search_size=&search_size_multi=b

This one is shareware has a trial period of 30 days http://www.stompsoft.com/easypctransfer.html download the trial you need a crossover cable.

Title: Re: Networking two computers- help please!
Post by: Lisandro on January 20, 2007, 02:50:07 AM
Would something like a crossover cable and something like the old laplink software.
Thanks David. I appreciate your efforts.
But the network worked in the past and it's working now, I can ping... there is no cable or hub troubles.
The problem seems to be at 'share' folders, access, security, etc.

Bob, I've tested the Network Magic in my computer and the same. Only when the router is detected it works.
The Network Heath and Security Alerts is giving me a false positive... Maybe a language problem (I'm not using an English Window).
I'm sure there is not any update available...
Title: Re: Networking two computers- help please!
Post by: DavidR on January 20, 2007, 03:10:13 AM
Sorry Tech I didn't realise you were also having problems, this suggestion was for Frank.
Title: Re: Networking two computers- help please!
Post by: bob3160 on January 20, 2007, 04:17:45 AM
Tech did you click on "Learn More" ?
I've never know this program to give me a false positive.
Title: Re: Networking two computers- help please!
Post by: FreewheelinFrank on January 20, 2007, 10:46:17 AM
Thanks for the help guys!

My instinct is that any transfer program is not going to wok if I can't get the computers to see each other on the network anyway, but I'll give them a go if I don't have any success today.

Looking into the issue it seems that if the connection doesn't happen, it can be really hard to make it happen. Even on the tech forums, there's a lot of advice along the lines of 'try this- it really shouldn't work- I've no idea why it does work- but it sometimes does'.  ???

Tech:

Here are a couple of Windows gremlins that can be behind the problem and a couple of diagnostic pages:

http://support.microsoft.com/kb/823305/
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/903267

http://www.tomax7.com/mcse/xp_network.htm
http://www.chicagotech.net/nettroublshooting.htm

EDIT:

And here:

http://www.tomax7.com/mcse/troubleshooting_tcp.htm  (http://www.tomax7.com/mcse/troubleshooting_tcp.htm)

Looks like I might have to try this:

http://www.practicallynetworked.com/sharing/troubleshoot/removefirewall.htm
Title: Re: Networking two computers- help please!
Post by: Lisandro on January 20, 2007, 11:03:47 AM
Tech did you click on "Learn More" ?
I've never know this program to give me a false positive.
I go further on 'Learn More' and I'll get the Windows Update page and then nothing...

http://support.microsoft.com/kb/903267
http://www.chicagotech.net/nettroublshooting.htm
Thanks, specially for these links. Very useful. Let's try  8)
Title: Re: Networking two computers- help please!
Post by: oldman on January 20, 2007, 11:24:10 AM
I don't know if there is any new info here

http://www.herongyang.com/win/crossover.html
Title: Re: Networking two computers- help please!
Post by: Lisandro on January 20, 2007, 12:44:18 PM
I don't know if there is any new info here
http://www.herongyang.com/win/crossover.html
A crossover cable network is a computer network with two computers connected with a crossover cable.
Indeed my friend has 3 computers joined by a hub, he doesn't use crossover cable but a normal, network one, connected by the hub.
Title: Re: Networking two computers- help please!
Post by: mauserme on January 20, 2007, 03:25:38 PM
@Tech - Sorry, I missed the fact that there is a hub in your friend's  network.

If the network previously  functioned OK and

1)  Nobody changed any TCP/IP or router settings, and
2)  Nobody reconfigured any hardware

Then it might be a hardware problem.  The hub seems to be the common element.  Do you have a different one you can put in the network to test?

@FreewheelinFrank - A friend had a similar problem an old (very old) computer that we tracked down to dust in the RJ45 connector.  It might be worth a look.

Title: Re: Networking two computers- help please!
Post by: Lisandro on January 20, 2007, 04:07:14 PM
Then it might be a hardware problem.  The hub seems to be the common element.  Do you have a different one you can put in the network to test?
Yes I have but it's not the hub. I can ping, the cables are ok.
I don't think it's a hardware problem but a files sharing (and access rights) problem.
Title: Re: Networking two computers- help please!
Post by: mauserme on January 20, 2007, 04:22:02 PM
But did the network just stop with no human input?
Title: Re: Networking two computers- help please!
Post by: Lisandro on January 20, 2007, 05:21:50 PM
But did the network just stop with no human input?
No... There is always an human input... whenever the user admits or not...
I think any TCP/IP setting, specially on Windows Registry should be messed up at his computer.
I'll post later about this.  8)
Title: Re: Networking two computers- help please!
Post by: FreewheelinFrank on January 20, 2007, 05:36:46 PM
Maybe you could try this, Tech?

Quote
On Windows XP, you can't uninstall / reinstall tcp/ip as it is integral to the OS. You can, however, reset it to the default specs. I had this same problem with my laptop, and after searching found the answer this morning. Go to for instructions on this. it's a simple command line modifcation that rewrites certain registry entries. Well, it seems that I cannot put the link in, so here goes.

1. Go to "start" & "run"
2. Type "cmd" and press enter. A "DOS box" should come up
3. type "netsh int ip reset c:\logfile.txt" and press enter. THis will change the settings and create a logfile on the root directory of your C drive.

http://forums.techguy.org/networking/411205-error-clear-netbt.html

I have a crossover cable connecting my (http://my) two computers, set up with the correct IP addresses, workgroup name etc.

I can ping the IP address of the other computer but not the computer name. This seems to be a NETBios problem, from what I read.

Trying a repair of the connection on the old computer gives a error message : failure clearing NetBT.

If there's any network wizars who happen to read this, any advice would be appreciated! 

Title: Re: Networking two computers- help please!
Post by: Lisandro on January 20, 2007, 05:41:14 PM
NOOO  :(
I've tried this in the past and I've LOST completely the possibility to connect the Internet!  :(
I have to use a Windows Registry backup to get connected again.
No, no, no... This command:
"netsh int ip reset c:\logfile.txt"
I won't use at all!

I can ping the IP address of the other computers, I can see the computer name but I can't share files.
Better, my friend can't  ;D
Title: Re: Networking two computers- help please!
Post by: bob3160 on January 20, 2007, 06:34:46 PM
Maybe this can help?  :)

Net Tools 4 contains a whole
variety of network tools.

--------------------------------------------------------
The Most Significant Tools
--------------------------------------------------------

IP Address Scanner, IP Calculator, IP Converter, Port
Listener, Port Scanner, Ping, NetStat (2 ways), Trace
Route (2 ways), TCP/IP Configuration, Online - Offline
Checker, Resolve Host & IP, Time Sync, Whois & MX Lookup,
Connect0r, Connection Analysator and prtotector, Net
Sender, E-mail seeker, Net Pager, Active and Passive port
scanner, Spoofer, Hack Trapper, HTTP flooder (DoS), Mass
Website Visiter, Advanced Port Scanner, Trojan Hunter
(Multi IP), Port Connecter Tool, Advanced Spoofer,
Advanced Anonymous E-mailer, Simple Anonymous E-mailer,
Anonymous E-mailer with Attachment Support, Mass E-mailer,
E-mail Bomber, E-mail Spoofer, Simple Port Scanner (fast),
Advanced Netstat Monitoring, X Pinger, Web Page Scanner,
Fast Port Scanner, Deep Port Scanner, Fastest Host Scanner
(UDP), Get Header, Open Port Scanner, Multi Port Scanner,
HTTP scanner (Open port 80 subnet scanner), Multi Ping for
Cisco Routers, TCP Packet Sniffer, UDP flooder, Resolve
and Ping, Multi IP ping, File Dependency Sniffer,
EXE-joiner (bind 2 files), Encrypter, Advanced Encryption,
File Difference Engine, File Comparasion, Mass File
Renamer, Add Bytes to EXE, Variable Encryption, Simple
File Encryption, ASCII to Binary (and Binary to ASCII),
Enigma, Password Unmasker, Credit Card Number Validate and
generate, Create Local HTTP Server, eXtreme UDP Flooder,
Web Server Scanner, Force Reboot, Webpage Info Seeker,
Bouncer, Advanced Packet Sniffer, IRC server creater,
Connection Tester, Fake Mail Sender, Bandwidth Monitor,
Remote Desktop Protocol Scanner, MX Query, Messenger
Packet Sniffer, API Spy, DHCP Restart, File Merger, E-mail
Extractor (crawler / harvester bot), Open FTP Scanner,
IP String COllecter, Range Net Send, CPU Monitor, Web
Server (possibility to send anonymous E-mails without
input of SMTP), Advanced System Lockup, ... And more.

Another little toy available at MySharedFiles (http://home.comcast.net/~mysharedfiles/)

Look for NetTools4.zip
Title: Re: Networking two computers- help please!
Post by: oldman on January 20, 2007, 07:05:27 PM
I don't know if there is any new info here
http://www.herongyang.com/win/crossover.html
A crossover cable network is a computer network with two computers connected with a crossover cable.
Indeed my friend has 3 computers joined by a hub, he doesn't use crossover cable but a normal, network one, connected by the hub.

Tech, I understand that. I should have posted that I was directing this towards FWF.
Title: Re: Networking two computers- help please!
Post by: OrangeCrate on January 20, 2007, 08:16:47 PM
Might I suggest a gallon of gasoline and a match?
Title: Re: Networking two computers- help please!
Post by: FreewheelinFrank on January 20, 2007, 08:19:03 PM
Don't tempt me!  >:(
Title: Re: Networking two computers- help please!
Post by: FreewheelinFrank on January 20, 2007, 09:34:13 PM
Happy! Happy! Joy! Joy!  :D

I fixed it!

Researching the 'failure clearing NetBT' message, I came across this command line utility for checking NetBios, nbtstat:

http://technet2.microsoft.com/WindowsServer/en/library/39e7ef09-569a-46ed-8292-817ada07f4ee1033.mspx?mfr=true

This produced the following error message: 'Failed to access NetBT driver -- NetBT may not be loaded'.

This lead me to this post:

http://forumz.tomshardware.com/network/NetBT-driver-File-printer-sharing-problems-ftopict20325.html

Which contained the answer here:

http://www.techspot.com/vb/all/windows/t-9007-NetBT-Troubleshooting-windows-XP.html

I don't think I've ever used Steve Gibson's tool (so to speak) but something had disabled NetBT, which in turn stopped NetBios from starting.

Having spent three days setting up the network, it took five minutes to transfer my files across!  :'(
Title: Re: Networking two computers- help please!
Post by: oldman on January 21, 2007, 05:45:46 AM
*The old computer is USB1 too: transferring the files would take about 3+ hours.

Having spent three days setting up the network, it took five minutes to transfer my files across!

Ahh, a man after my own heart. Spend 3 days to save 3 hours.

Seriously, glad you got it. I'll keep this thread in mind. I may be doing this soon myself.
Title: Re: Networking two computers- help please!
Post by: mauserme on January 21, 2007, 05:56:52 AM
No dust in the connector, then?  ;D
Title: Re: Networking two computers- help please!
Post by: OrangeCrate on January 22, 2007, 09:18:59 PM
Happy! Happy! Joy! Joy!  :D

GO BEARS!!