Avast WEBforum
Consumer Products => Avast Free Antivirus / Premium Security (legacy Pro Antivirus, Internet Security, Premier) => Topic started by: epp on July 21, 2008, 10:33:53 PM
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First update after reinstallation of Avast!
Information about current update:
Total time: 24:02
- Vps: Updated
(previous version: 080611-1, updated version: 080719-0)
Server: download940.avast.com (74.54.25.98)
Downloaded files: 42 (2,943.65 KB)
Download time: 38 s
The update from 808719 to 080720 didn't take 24:02 to update, but the update from 080720 to 080721 took almost the same amount of time:
Information about current update:
Total time: 23:41
- Vps: Updated
(previous version: 080720-0, updated version: 080721-0)
Server: download617.avast.com (74.55.74.74)
Downloaded files: 5 (50.10 KB)
Download time: 7 s
Does Avast! only update when perhaps, the PC is idle??
It doesn't seem like it should take 20+ minutes to install only 50Kb worth of files. The update icon was on for this 23-minute period and the indication that the database was updated, appeared shortly after I right-clicked the (a) icon and selected the Log Viewer.
The CPU is an AMD K6-2 (with 3-D Now) 500 MHz, with 512 Mb of memory, Windows XP Home with Service Pack 3.
Another computer with Avast! installed (with a separate registration key) contains an AMD Athlon CPU, 600 MHz with 256 Mb of memory, also with XP Home SP 3, this PC updates Avast! within 4 minutes.
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It should take seconds... How do you connect the Internet? Dial-up?
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Cable connection at 6 Mbps.
The update icon first appears within a minute or two after the desktop appears, then it takes the rest of that amount of time before I see the indication that the database has been updated. During which time, I look at the box and there isn't any hard drive activity.
If it is taking only 7 seconds to download the files, I would think the software should begin to update immediately thereafter.
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When I reboot the computer, knowing that it is already updated, I ran an update manually (right-click the (a), Updating, iAVS Update) and saw the following:
Information about current update:
Total time: 1:59
- Vps: Already up to date
(current version 080721-0)
Server: download916.avast.com (74.86.96.163)
Downloaded files: 2 (0.02 KB)
Download time: 5 s
It took less than 2 minutes to tell me that the software is up to date, yet it takes 20+ minutes to update when updates are available. Is there something about the software that I'm not quite understanding? ???
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The actual connection and download does take seconds, however the verification of the download and then installation is CPU and RAM intensive.
So that could well be why you get extended time frames, though even with the limited resources of your system, 20 minutes seems very excessive.
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For me, with a 4Gb connection, it's taking 20 seconds...
Are you sure that any other security program isn't interfering?
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epp,
there will be more detailed timing information in the setup log in the avast log folder and you should see the update process starting immediately the files have been downloaded.
Have you checked the task manager at the time avast is updating? Do you have other processes competing with avast for your limited CPU and memory?
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epp,
there will be more detailed timing information in the setup log in the avast log folder and you should see the update process starting immediately the files have been downloaded.
Have you checked the task manager at the time avast is updating? Do you have other processes competing with avast for your limited CPU and memory?
I'm not sure if this is specifically the reason, but a program helpsvc.exe is taking up almost 100% of the CPU resources with no other applications running.
Microsoft made a hotfix available via http://support.microsoft.com/kb/839017/en-us but the hotfix download page references it is for XP Service Pack 2, I have Service Pack 3 installed, so I don't know if applying the hotfix will fix this particular issue.
If it helps, I am attaching the relevant portion of the log.
Although I downloaded the hotfix, I turned off the Help & Support service in the System Configuration, I never really use it anyway.
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I do not know if turning off Help & Support had anything to do with it, but it was somewhat better this morning:
Information about current update:
Total time: 11:56
- Vps: Updated
(previous version: 080721-0, updated version: 080722-0)
Server: download626.avast.com (74.55.70.154:80)
Downloaded files: 5 (149.02 KB)
Download time: 10 s
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better this morning:
Total time: 11:56
Downloaded files: 5 (149.02 KB)
Download time: 10 s
Something continues weird... 10s of download seems ok. But 11 minutes just to get back the answer is ridiculous... I suggest an installation from the scratch:
1. Uninstall avast from Control Panel first.
2. Boot.
3. Download the latest version of Avast Uninstall (http://www.avast.com/eng/avast-uninstall-utility.html) and use it for complete uninstallation.
4. Boot.
5. Install again the latest avast! (http://www.avast.com/eng/programs.html) version.
6. Boot.
7. Check and post the results.
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OK, I'll do that, thank you.
There was a second update today, so the speed seems to be improving, only 6 1/2 minutes this time.
Information about current update:
Total time: 6:31
- Vps: Updated
(previous version: 080722-0, updated version: 080722-1)
Server: download663.avast.com (70.85.96.90:80)
Downloaded files: 4 (9.23 KB)
Download time: 2 s
I have an HP inkjet printer and the software loads in "HP Digital Imaging Monitor" that has an icon in the systray next to the Avast icons, but as I do not actually use it to check anything, I cannot say with any certainty if that piece of software could also be slowing down the system, but I will occasionally be prompted to download any updates from HP that may be available. There are three HP-related items showing in the Task Manager that are always running but the current CPU usage for al three, is zero.
Since I do specifically use that monitor, I would rather turn that off as well, but I will perform the Avast uninstall/reinstall first to see what occurs.
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I should have left the previous installation intact.
The VRDB (i) icon does not appear on screen when the software loads in at bootup, which HAS happened before. I wound up uninstalling and reinstalling Avast three times before the (i) icon finally appeared.
When in the Update (Basic) settings window, clicking Details, hangs the software, which has also happened previously. I have to go into the Task Manager to shut that down.
It has also not updated since this last installation.
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I should have left the previous installation intact.
The VRDB (i) icon does not appear on screen when the software loads in at bootup, which HAS happened before. I wound up uninstalling and reinstalling Avast three times before the (i) icon finally appeared.
When in the Update (Basic) settings window, clicking Details, hangs the software, which has also happened previously. I have to go into the Task Manager to shut that down.
It has also not updated since this last installation.
The above has happened yet again...
>:(
I am going to uninstall and reinstall this for a third time (second time I've had to install three times before it became fully-functional). If it fails again, then I'm going to back to trying a different AV software.
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Googling helpsvc.exe will reveal many instances of helpsvc.exe using 100% CPU.
In the past it has happen to me. I disabled it in services. Do'nt know if microsoft fixed it or not. Guess they did, because I no longer have trouble with it running.
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Darth - I am now running SP 3 and that service still used 100% CPU, so I simply turned it off in the system config, but it apparently had no effect on the Avast problem.
Information about current update:
Total time: 22:10
- Vps: Updated
(previous version: 080719-0, updated version: 080722-1)
Server: download206.avast.com (75.126.130.173)
Downloaded files: 7 (210.01 KB)
Download time: 25 s
Update (Basic)/Settings does NOT hang the software, once the first update has occurred. Before the first update, it hangs the software. Perhaps the developers should look at this.
I am attaching the latest portion of the log. The second to last entry indicates something was canceled by the user. I did not cancel anything.
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On my 10-year old Pentium (1) 166 MHz Linux system, it took Avast 1 minute 31 seconds to update the software. This is under Linux, but with a CPU that is only 1/3rd the speed of my K6-2.
I've uninstalled software I no longer use (including McAfee using their special uninstaller),
What could be wrong with the Windows version?
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I've uninstalled software I no longer use (including McAfee using their special uninstaller),
What could be wrong with the Windows version?
With that computer should you say...
This article provides the steps to remove SecurityCenter from your computer.
http://ts.mcafeehelp.com/faq3.asp?docid=71525
Also for direct download: http://download.mcafee.com/products/licensed/cust_support_patches/VSCleanupTool.exe
and http://download.mcafee.com/products/licensed/cust_support_patches/MCPR.exe (2007)
If you need, you can find many free versions of these registry cleaners here:
http://www.snapfiles.com/Freeware/system/fwregtools.html
Sometimes, McAfee won't be completely removed if, before, you do not uninstall Avast, including the use of its "Uninstall Application" if necessary (www.avast.com/eng/faq-install-uninstall-avast.html).
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I have run MCPR.EXE but not VSCleanupTool. I will run that one as well.
The VRDB is currently generating, so I will wait until that finishes before running VSCleanupTool.
Someone else on the forum indicated that the VRDB (i) icon did not appear in the systray until after Avast was installed for the third time. I also saw this same behavior, twice. It is probably something that needs to be looked at by Alwil. I do not want to uninstall Avast again, because of this particular issue. So I will have to run VSCleanupTool while Avast remains installed.
I also turned off the HP digital monitor in the system config but will have to reboot it for that change to take effect, this will be done once the VRDB finishes generating, it's been generating for three hours already.
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The last stand...
It is now almost FIVE HOURS since I started the VRDB generation and it is STILL generating it, this is with the PC completely idle.
It takes over 20 minutes for a simple update and five hours for a VRDB generation...
If a 500 MHz AMD K6-2 CPU in a system with 512 Mb of memory is not powerful enough for Avast, someone please tell me, because I would rather not waste further time with this.
Thank you all for the help you've provided up to this point.
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five hours for a VRDB generation...
Seems ok... depends of the number of files and the number of executable files that you have.
Don't worry that much on VRDB generation... let it manually overnight...
The problem, imho, is the update lag. Please, post the last 200-250 lines of avast log: C:\Program Files\Alwil Software\Avast4\DATA\log\Setup.log
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epp,
I am suspecting that you not only have an older system with limited CPU and memory but, looking at your logs, I think you have a big problem with disk access timing on this system.
This could be partly attributable to having a heavily fragmented disk. Do you run a regular degramentation?
Look at you log3.txt
Since the avast update is a differential update rather than a full update avast has to work out the differences that need to be installed.
Take a look at 2:36:48 then the next log entry is 2:43:58 a gap of over 7 minutes! That is just a small part of the update.
I just brought up my 8 year old XP system (1GHz processor and 512Mb memory) and avast updated it from 080717-0 to 080722-1. The equivalent gap in the log on that system to your >7 minutes is 36 seconds. On my old XP system the download time for the files was only 8 seconds for the 320Kb of update files. I have a connection of the same speed as yours (6Mbps) and the total update time was 1 minute 51 seconds.
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The drive was actually defragged last week, before I installed Avast this time around.
When the 5 hour point hit for the VRDB generation and it had not finished, that was enough for me. I am not one that will leave a system on all evening.
It simply takes too long for anything Avast-related to get done and I'm going to look at other options.
Thank you again for all the help, but I am now convinced that I can't use Avast.
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Well for a start the VRDB is something that isn't found in other AVs and one that will most likely be dropped at some point in the future as when it was introduced it was a much more useful function but things progress and it isn't as much of a benefit as it was. So you could simply disable it.
You will find that working with avast and your system to get the best compromise between protection and performance would be better for you.
With your old system you are going to experience similar issues with other AVs and if you don't it is likely because they don't provide the same levels of protection. avast by comparison to other major AVs is relatively light on resources. It is your system and your choice, if that is what you wild do, good luck with your next AV.
Don't forget help and support is a major consideration/issue when you are experiencing any problem.
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Thank you again for all the help, but I am now convinced that I can't use Avast.
In fact you can use avast without VRDB... no huge problems...
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Here is what I did this morning:
Uninstall all known instances of AV software past and present (Avast, McAfee), including running their secondary uninstallers, rebooted in-between all of them.
Ran Disk Defrag. As I ran this last week, it indicated that only 8% was fragmented and it did not require another defrag. I defragged it anyway.
Then reinstalled Avast. The (i) VRDB icon is not currently displayed in the systray. In looking at Tech's message in http://forum.avast.com/index.php?topic=36528.msg309054#msg309054, the MergeIcons, Disabled and ShowtaskbarIcon entries are not currently listed under [VRDB] in the avast4.ini file.
I have attached the log from the point of installation to the present time.
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Then reinstalled Avast.
I suggest an installation from the scratch:
1. Uninstall avast from Control Panel first.
2. Boot.
3. Download the latest version of Avast Uninstall (http://www.avast.com/eng/avast-uninstall-utility.html) and use it for complete uninstallation.
4. Boot.
5. Install again the latest avast! (http://www.avast.com/eng/programs.html) version.
6. Boot.
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This latest install, was an install from scratch.
If the VRDB function ends up not loading at all, I'm probably better off as I do not want to wait another 5 hours for another file to be generated...
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Here is a comparison (and an admission ;D ):
I installed Avast on my father's computer earlier this year. That PC has an AMD Athlon CPU, 600 Mhz and 256 Mb of RAM installed. The Athlon is in the 686-class (i686) of CPU, my AMD K6-2 is in the 586-class (i586).
I am guessing that because the Athlon is an i686, I have noticed the same applications run faster, despite only having 1/2 the memory installed, than the same applications on my K6-2 system with twice the memory. In the Task Manager, both are showing the exact same processes running at startup (except for the nVIDIA and HP processes which are on my K6-2 system).
When Avast just updated at bootup of the Athlon system:
Information about current update:
Total time: 3:59
- Vps: Updated
(previous version: 080721-0, updated version: 080723-0)
Server: download93.avast.com (75.126.130.164)
Downloaded files: 6 (222.17 KB)
Download time: 3 s
was the result of the update.
That is something I could live with on my K6-2 system. :)
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There was one other item that I turned off at startup that also had an icon in the systray. With that no longer loading in, I'll report back on how fast the next Avast! update takes.
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Getting better...
Information about current update:
Total time: 8:31
- Vps: Updated
(previous version: 080723-0, updated version: 080723-1)
Server: download80.avast.com (75.126.38.76)
Downloaded files: 4 (6.11 KB)
Download time: 6 s
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Wow! You're healthy! ;)
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Well, when I uninstalled and reinstalled, in order to get the (i) icon back, the first update took 15:04.
What I did this time was watch the router to see when the data was being exchanged and what the hard drive did.
It appears that after the update files are downloaded and received, the software is updating the files almost immediately, which is what I believe should be happening. Then we have that gap of several minutes when the hard drive shows no activity. Then, the hard drive shows activity and the audio with visual indication of the update, appears afterwards. This gap of several minutes, eludes me, since there is nothing in the log to indicate that anything is happening aside from updating the software with the new file, but there was no hard drive activity...
Anyhow, it is working, so I'm leaving it as it is.
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With only the two Avast! icons and the networking icon now in the systray, the update times have been better.
This morning:
Information about current update:
Total time: 11:46
- Vps: Updated
(previous version: 080723-1, updated version: 080724-0)
Server: download946.avast.com (74.54.53.2)
Downloaded files: 5 (147.79 KB)
Download time: 7 s
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epp, even though it's strange...
Can you test your Internet speed? Donwload/Upload.
Is there any other application (security or not) that is filtering the http traffic?
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epp, even though it's strange...
Can you test your Internet speed? Donwload/Upload.
Is there any other application (security or not) that is filtering the http traffic?
The only application that seems to be filtering http traffic is Avast's Web Shield itself.
Using the Flash speed test at Speakeasy (http://speedtest.speakeasy.net/) using their New
York site (closest to me):
With Avast Web Shield paused:
Download: 6,390 kbps
Upload: 2,711 kbps
It's worth noting that other AV products I've used in the past that did not have anything like Web Shield, produced similar speed test results as above.
With Avast Web Shield enabled, testing from the same site:
Download: 1,771 kbps
Upload: 2,220 kbps
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There is one thing so far that has been consistent. If I run an update manually, it takes almost no time at all:
Information about current update:
Total time: 4:05
- Program: Updated
(previous version: 4.8.1227, updated version: 4.8.1229)
- Vps: Updated
(previous version: 080724-0, updated version: 080724-1)
- Setup: Updated
(previous version: 4.8.1227, updated version: 4.8.1229)
Server: download927.avast.com (74.86.125.43)
Downloaded files: 4 (43.90 KB)
Download time: 5 s
It is when Avast is set to update automatically (at startup), that it takes more than twice as long.
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Well that is strange as paused still uses the web shield proxy, it is just the scanning that stops. So the limitation isn't entirely the web shield but the low system spec (AMD K6-2 (with 3-D Now!) 500 MHz CPU - 524 Mb RAM) as the web shield scans the content.
XP whilst nowhere as bad as Vista will gobble some of your RAM and CPU just to run and anything else running in the background will also eat some more, so that will also limit the available resources foe avast to scan the content, whist a download (like the speed test) is going on. That is effectively what is throttling your download speed.
I doubt you would notice it as much during normal browsing though ?
The auto update uses a CPU reduction trick so it doesn't take more than 30% of the CPU time, that would slow the update processing. I can't recall if this trick works in win9x, but there seems to be something like that happening, you could check to see what resources are used for the different update.
The Manual update has no such restriction and will grab as much as is available and appear quicker, assuming the CPU restriction trick works in the above info.
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I've changed the update settings to ask when available, then when the next update is available, I'll have it update then and check the speed afterwards.
Any speed difference (with Web Shield fully enabled) with normal web browsing, is not noticable.
The maximum amount of memory that the motherboard (DFI K6BV3+/66, installed in 2000) will accept is 768 Mb (or 256 x 3), but the DIMM's must have the chips on both sides, otherwise the BIOS only recognizes 1/2 the actual memory amount. What is in this now, are 1 256 Mb and 2 128 Mb DIMM's. Assuming I can find the correct DIMM's locally, would increasing the memory to 768 Mb, noticeably improve things?
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Ask acts in the same way as Manual as you are effectively initiating a manual update after the notification.
Getting the right chips and increasing the memory should help, but you are always going to be hampered by the processor as the validation/verification of the downloaded files is cpu and ram intensive.
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The auto update uses a CPU reduction trick so it doesn't take more than 30% of the CPU time, that would slow the update processing. I can't recall if this trick works in win9x, but there seems to be something like that happening, you could check to see what resources are used for the different update.
The Manual update has no such restriction and will grab as much as is available and appear quicker, assuming the CPU restriction trick works in the above info.
On this system, I have noticed that process use between 27 and 31% of CPU resources when it's updating automatically (at startup). But so far, a manual update runs quicker, as you explained.
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That looks about right for the auto update allowing for you to continue doing other things whilst the update is going on (as much as that can be with the limitation of you system spec).
I don't know why I mentioned win9x in this topic, when your signature shows XP, in another topic I was helping in no doubt.
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With updates set to Ask, it took 5:02 to update Avast! this morning.
Had Windows Update not been running at the same time, I know Avast! would have taken even less time.
I'm going to leave the settings on Ask. Works better for me. :)
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There is one thing so far that has been consistent. If I run an update manually, it takes almost no time at all:
Information about current update:
Total time: 4:05
- Program: Updated
(previous version: 4.8.1227, updated version: 4.8.1229)
- Vps: Updated
(previous version: 080724-0, updated version: 080724-1)
- Setup: Updated
(previous version: 4.8.1227, updated version: 4.8.1229)
Server: download927.avast.com (74.86.125.43)
Downloaded files: 4 (43.90 KB)
Download time: 5 s
It is when Avast is set to update automatically (at startup), that it takes more than twice as long.
With an exception...
My Pentium system once had a mix of two different types of RAM on-board, which has since been corrected. I thought that perhaps the other machine may also have a mix of memory due to their being 1 256 Mb DIMM and 2 128 Mb DIMM's on its board. I removed the 128 Mb DIMM's, leaving the 256 in there, booted up in Safe Mode, changed the update selection from Ask to Automatic, then rebooted.
When it updated just now (with only 256 Mb of memory) at startup:
Information about current update:
Total time: 6:07
- Vps: Updated
(previous version: 080725-0, updated version: 080725-1)
Server: download912.avast.com (75.126.203.77)
Downloaded files: 4 (16.77 KB)
Download time: 6 s
Still, better than taking 21 minutes with the full amount of memory in it. :)
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The differences in RAM aren't usually critical, but will run at the speed of the slowest stick. So essentially if you did have one stick slower it is unlikely to slow it as much as having less RAM.
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All three sticks are PC100 and the motherboard has a 100 MHz bus, so the memory is the correct speed for the system. I did some online research and discovered that two of these double-sided DIMM's are also called low-density, having 8 chips on each side.
However, one of the 128 Mb DIMM's has 4 chips on each side. A quick search resulted in this page at eBay (http://reviews.ebay.com/Myth-Low-Density-vs-High-Density-memory-modules_W0QQugidZ10000000001236178QQ_trksidZp3286.c0.m17). Breakpoint #3 on this page, indicates that this particular DIMM is high-density since it has 4 chips on each side. The fact that it is high-density, now tells me that, like the Pentium, there was a mix of two different types. I will leave this particular DIMM out and am going to place the other 128 Mb low-density DIMM back in the system.
Learning something new every day. :)
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Just got a bit of a surprise. I ran another speedtest at Speakeasy, same New York City server.
With Web Shield enabled:
Download Speed: 2752 kbps (344 KB/sec transfer rate)
Upload Speed: 2464 kbps (308 KB/sec transfer rate)
With Web Shield paused:
Download Speed: 7145 kbps (893.1 KB/sec transfer rate)
Upload Speed: 2547 kbps (318.4 KB/sec transfer rate)
Taking out that high-density DIMM has apparently caused an increase in download speeds. ;D