Avast WEBforum
Consumer Products => Avast Free Antivirus / Premium Security (legacy Pro Antivirus, Internet Security, Premier) => Topic started by: unbob on March 03, 2009, 06:22:47 PM
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This is weird - my order to upgrade to avast! Professional is being rejected by element 5 apparently because I'm ordering while being in a country other than where my billing address is located. In this case, my billing address is in the USA and I'm currently in Baja California.
Regarding my order, I received an e-mail stating "we were unable to charge your credit card for your order". I placed my order twice using 2 different credit cards with the same result.
I verified that the credit card information on my order is correct and my credit card accounts are in good standing. I contacted my credit card banks and they informed me that no charge was received from either element 5 or ALWIL Software.
I'm assuming they determine my physical location using my IP address. The strange thing is I do all my personal business on the internet (credit cards, bank accounts, insurance policies, etc) while in Mexico and I've never, ever had a problem like this.
While in Mexico the past 4 months I have frequently purchased software (downloaded) and ordered various "stuff" (hard drive, camera, etc.) from amazon.com, zipzoomfly.com, buy.com, etc that I had delivered to a USA address. Again, never a problem!
Has this happened to anyone else?
Never had a merchant refuse my $$$ because I was in the "wrong" country - until now that is! :( ???
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Sounds weird, try contacting sales (at) avast (dot) com and see if they can check with element 5 about the IP address as it would appear to be wrong.
There are other payment methods I believe that you can use PayPal now in the Element5 payments, perhaps that might get round the Credit Card/IP problem. There was me thinking Baja, California was in the USA ??? so there must be something wrong with the IP whois checking.
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There was me thinking Baja, California was in the USA ??? so there must be something wrong with the IP whois checking.
Baja California Norte and Baja California Sur are both states of Mexico. So, I am definitely an American in Mexico!
Question: why does that disqualify me from purchasing ALWIL software??? ???
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Question: why does that disqualify me from purchasing ALWIL software??? ???
I don't know, but you should ask Sales (DavidR gave you the mail address)
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There was me thinking Baja, California was in the USA ??? so there must be something wrong with the IP whois checking.
Baja California Norte and Baja California Sur are both states of Mexico. So, I am definitely an American in Mexico!
Question: why does that disqualify me from purchasing ALWIL software??? ???
Nice confusing name then.
It isn't specifically avast/Alwil software, but the handling by Element5 (and any other stuff they process), and my guess is that they are trying to protect against internet fraud and fraudulent transactions. So they are trying to protect you the card holder, but you would think that depending on what verification takes place it should be possible to authorise.
For example my credit card does an additional step if the sum is greater than a certain figure, now if that passes I don't think that they would block something in the same instances as yours. A lot more companies are tightening down on internet transaction security, though that doesn't help you in this case.
There are also US Resellers/Distributors, I don't know if you would experience the same issues, http://www.avast.com/eng/distributors-and-resellers.html (http://www.avast.com/eng/distributors-and-resellers.html). Or as I mentioned PayPal is offered as a payment option in Element5, see image.
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I don't know, but you should ask Sales (DavidR gave you the mail address)
Yes, I have sent an e-mail asking for an explanation.
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Okay, I got tired of waiting for a reply to my e-mail from element 5 and ALWIL Software. So, I tried placing my order again - this time using my PayPal account which is linked directly to my bank checking account with a current balance of $3693.12.
This time I received an e-mail stating:
Dear Valued Customer,
element 5 processes orders and collects payments on behalf of ALWIL
Software a.s..
Unfortunately, the PayPal transaction for your order ********* failed. The
order can therefore not be completed.
During the order process it was indicated that my PayPal account was "verified".
I have a balance of over $3600 in my checking account and these guys won't accept my order???? What is wrong with these people??? I'm mad as hell! >:(
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Still waiting for a resolution to this "problem"! I contacted avast sales and they responded:
"Our online purchase is run entirely on our behalf by element5, so all transactions are done on their site.
I have forwarded your problem to element5; element5 staff will get in touch with you and help you with it shortly.
We are sorry to hear that you've experienced problems with the purchase process."
So, I think they're saying "it's not our problem"!
Again, as of this posting, element5 has not responded with a resolution.
If anyone from ALWIL Software is reading this post - you guys need to find a new payment processor! Element5 is turning away paying customers! And for Christ sake, this is only a $43 usd transaction! Not hundreds or thousands of dollars!
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So, I think they're saying "it's not our problem"!
No, they will follow element 5 support, just that they can direct interfere in a sale made by a 3rd party.
They will give you back any info, be sure.
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Just to throw some info in, I just placed an order for some wireless access points from Tranzeo Wireless (tranzeo.com) and since they are based in Canada, and I was purchasing with a discover card that was billed in the US, the transaction was not authorized.
I sort of appreciate this, since it would probably help in case the credit card info was ever stolen.
However, one short call to discover to tell them to authorize the transaction did the trick, and I had my wireless transmitters 3 days later.
Maybe give your credit card company a call and have them authorize it?
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Maybe give your credit card company a call and have them authorize it?
The credit card and PayPal "people" are not the problem! I contacted them and they tell me they have not received a charge or inquiry from element5. So the problem is obviously with element5! And they so far have not responded with any sort of resolution. What is their problem??? >:(
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I understand your frustration, which seems to be mainly with Element 5 (and particularly their lack of response to you).
You've posted the issue at Wilders, also, and maybe the solution suggested there- to use a 60 day trial of pro - would be the way to go.
It's hard to imagine that this issue can't be resolved inside 60 days.
Hopefully the good folk at Alwil can bring a little pressure to bear on Element 5.
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I would plum for a US Reseler/Distributor from the link that I gave you and see if you have any better luck.
As frustrating as it is for you, Element5 obviously have a policy not to accept charges on a card from a different country to the cards registration, that protects any card holder from fraudulent transactions but would also protect element5 as it would be them that would have to refund the purchase.
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I hope ALWIL will know your problem and trying to resolve this for its didnt restart because i think alot people want this pro version :D and its weird for the ppl that cant purchase it
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I live in Spain have only a Spanish bank and a Spanish bank issued Visa card; but visit the UK several times a year.
Dell, UK. would not accept an internet order from me, for delivery to the UK on one of my trips there. I bought my laptop, a Toshiba, (I wanted an English language operating system, not available without an extra charge (100 euros) in Spain), from PC World in Sheffield, UK, using my Spanish issued Visa - no problem.
Vote with your feet - buy from a supplier who is user friendly.
Dell lost MY business!
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Vote with your feet - buy from a supplier who is user friendly.
Absolutely! I can guarantee element5 will not be getting my business - ever!
If I do decide to purchase a Pro upgrade, it will be from another reseller/distributor of ALWIL Software.
Just wish ALWIL Software would drop element5 as their online reseller.
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Finally received a response from element5 this morning. In part, here's what they said:
"We apologised for all inconveniences caused.
The order you attempted to place is incomplete, and your PayPal account
has not been charged. A new order will need to be placed ..."
also ...
"We recommend when placing an order that you enter the email address
associated with your PayPal account. If the email address entered on the
Billing Information page does not match the email address associated
with your PayPal account, your order may not process completely."
"The order you attempted to place is incomplete" Huh? What does that mean? I entered all required information and entry of the completed input fields was accepted. So why is my order "incomplete"?
And their requirement that the e-mail address I entered be the same e-mail address used on my PayPal account!? What's up with that?
I use a service called spamgourmet.com (http://spamgourmet.com) that allows me to use disposable e-mail addresses when ordering from merchants or registering for message boards, etc. It's basically a way to manage and prevent my "real" personal e-mail address from being scattered all over the internet and used by scammers and spammers. Works very well and I highly recommend! (Am I the only spamgourmet user on the planet?) And there are many other such disposable e-mail address services available on the 'net.
So, I always use a different disposable e-mail address for each account I set up on the 'net. That's for my protection. But that obviously does not meet element5's "requirements". Again, I've been using the spamgourmet service and disposable e-mail addresses for years and never, ever encountered this problem!
Bottom line: element5 has a bogus customer purchase verification process and is refusing legitimate business of their clients.
I surely hope this incident is made known to the management of ALWIL Software and they take action to force element5 to modify their payment verification process or sack element5 and find another payment processor!
Meantime, I have been kindly contacted by other ALWIL Software resellers & distributors offering to accept my order and gladly take my $$$.
I will henceforth never, ever do business with element5 and I will make sure they are informed. I recommend all other customers of ALWIL Software do the same.
Let's make sure element5 either changes their business practices or ceases to exist!
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And their requirement that the e-mail address I entered be the same e-mail address used on my PayPal account!? What's up with that?
This is to protect your PayPal account from malicious use and I am sure PayPal will require that the email address match or else PayPal will reject the order also.
When you are ordering such things that require authorizing, you must use valid addresses (as well as other valid information) or else it apppears to them that a malicious attempt is being made to access your personal accounts. For obvious reasons, disposable email addresses are not valid addresses.
In the 7 years that I have used avast, they have never misused my personal information and neither has element5. In my very recent order, Element5 sent me at least 3 emails notifying me of the progress of my order ......
1- to notify me of the order being made.
(this is something I would want to know in case I did not make the order and can not be done with disposable addresses)
2 - to verify the order was processed.
(of course, you would want to know this)
3 - a reminder that the order would show as "DRI*www.avast.com" on my credit card account.
(also something I would want to know and can not be done with disposable addresses)
If you feel you can not trust a security company, who can you trust? You have to trust that they use a reputable company to process the orders and they do.
So, what is the problem? The problem is they see an attempt to use your account and they have no idea who you are. The attempt looks malicious because email #1 is returned because a disposable address is used. They now have no way to contact you nor anyway to verify the order.
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This is to protect your PayPal account from malicious use and I am sure PayPal will require that the email address match or else PayPal will reject the order also.
Wrong! I have placed orders online previously with a disposable e-mail address using my PayPal account and I had no problem!
When you are ordering such things that require authorizing, you must use valid addresses (as well as other valid information) or else it apppears to them that a malicious attempt is being made to access your personal accounts. For obvious reasons, disposable email addresses are not valid addresses.
Again wrong! Of course disposable e-mail addresses are valid! I use them all the time sending and receiving email! And using one does not mean a malicious attempt is being made - nothing of the sort! Any online merchant refusing business on the basis of identifying the customer's e-mail address as "disposable" is a fool and is losing legitimate business!
In the 7 years that I have used avast, they have never misused my personal information ...
My beef is not with ALWIL Software - only element5.
a reminder that the order would show as "DRI*www.avast.com" on my credit card account.
(also something I would want to know and can not be done with disposable addresses)
Wrong again! I frequently place orders online using one of several credit card accounts and using one of my disposable e-mail addresses - with no problem whatsoever!
If you feel you can not trust a security company, who can you trust? You have to trust that they use a reputable company to process the orders and they do.
All well and good. However, why should I not take every precaution to protect myself online by never disclosing my "real" e-mail address. It's just not necessary (unless you're ordering from element5!).
So, what is the problem? The problem is they see an attempt to use your account and they have no idea who you are. The attempt looks malicious because email #1 is returned because a disposable address is used. They now have no way to contact you nor anyway to verify the order.
They have no idea who I am? How does anyone know who anyone is just by looking at their e-mail address? Can you explain that?
In the case of placing an order for a product, the merchant knows who I am because I supplied all the requested information during the order process - credit card number, expiration date, security code, etc etc. And I also point out that all my credit card and PayPal account have "disposable" e-mail addresses in my account profile!
Sorry, but your comments on the use of a disposable e-mail address just don't wash!
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(http://static.pyzam.com/img/graphics/7/MJZ1634.gif)
not worth the aggravation.
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Ok ... you are right and I am wrong. But, which of us is having a problem?
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Seriously, if this was happening all the time, ALWIL would have changed the service long ago. So it's most probably a problem from your side. You seems to have decided not to buy it anyway, so why all the heat?
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Ok ... you are right and I am wrong. But, which of us is having a problem?
They are probably of the Ferrous Cranus troll type:
http://redwing.hutman.net/~mreed/warriorshtm/ferouscranus.htm
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Ok ... you are right and I am wrong. But, which of us is having a problem?
Sorry Charley if I was a bit brusk. But I was stating the truth with my experience using so-called "disposable" e-mail addresses.
In any case, my problem with element5 is over as far as I'm concerned. I've made known their business practices and vented my anger at the way I've been treated. Mission accomplished.
I'm not going to upgrade to Pro - decided I really don't need it. And, poor 'ole ALWIL Software has lost a paying customer (for now). Love their free stuff though - keep it coming! Free is good!
While it's possible I may become a future paying customer of ALWIL, I will never, ever do business with element5!!! >:(
All is well now and life goes on ... :)