Avast WEBforum
Consumer Products => Avast Free Antivirus / Premium Security (legacy Pro Antivirus, Internet Security, Premier) => Topic started by: nightshade on July 23, 2009, 12:59:56 AM
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This is getting worrying now, as the beta is near will I be able to test the Avast 5 beta, or will that be pointless due to it possibly be not supported?
:'(
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You won't be able to beta test version 5.0 as it doesn't support win9x/ME.
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You won't be able to beta test version 5.0 as it doesn't support win9x/ME.
Can you tell me how long then Avast 4.8 will be available for users of the 98 system?
Win98 still has many users. Believe it or not, it is very stable. It runs lots of useful software and legacy hardware that function just fine. it's in jeopardy only because of wasteful planned obsolescence driven by MS to drive profits from replacement hardware and software that provide minor updates to existing Win98 functions. People are still writing drivers and porting new functions to it.
See: http://www.msfn.org/board/index.php?showtopic=130936 and http://www.mdgx.com/spx/ to understand how active the Win98 users' community still is.
And what are users meant to do, have no protection to their systems?
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Hi nightshade,
Then you must have been here: http://www.geekgirls.com/windows_reinstall_98.htm
Did you also install the non-official service pack for Win98 SE, it is from a Turkish coder and it gives you for instance usb support etc.
If avast is no longer supporting Win 98 you should go for an alternative option like ClamWin resident, eventually with DrWebCureIt scanning every so many days or using a combination of SafeHex and online scanning through various online scanners. Your system is obsolete, and a computer isn't a museum, how much we like to cling to the past, for some it is not the future. Use your OS with normal user rights, have a good back-up regime, mention that as less and less users have Win 98 it can become more secure by its exclusiveness. Good thing some browsers can still be used, but IE6 is also vulnerable and should not be used as a rule (Browzar IE shell browser is a good option on Win 98). Like to hear how you like to plan to secure an obsolete OS?
polonus
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I thank you for your reply.
But I do find it to be the very same as has been said previously.
We all know it's obsolete, but it's only obsolete due to Microsoft's greed as per my message previous.
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You won't be able to beta test version 5.0 as it doesn't support win9x/ME.
Can you tell me how long then Avast 4.8 will be available for users of the 98 system?
<snip>
We are covering the same ground again, it has already been stated for win9x/ME support the end of this year for certain and anything after that is a bonus. That will of course be on the 4.8 version/model of avast! it has been suggested that support may extend beyond that for 4.8, but nothing set in stone.
Regardless of how many versions of win98 are out their it is still a drop in the ocean for other OS versions, with version 5.0 it is the direction avast wants to go with new developments and that simply can't happen with older OSes. That means for a time there will be effectively two avast 4 windows versions being supported and this can't go on indefinitely and that is a fact.
All of which has been done to death in many topics, which you have participated in.
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DavidR,
I am sorry if I have been a nuisance, I thought that is what this forum was for, looks like I have been proved wrong.
And I certainly don't appreciate you trying to make a fool out of me either, I thought you may have learned from that on a previous occasion, obviously not.
All you needed to have said when I asked initially was that Avast 5 won't be supported, but 4.8 will continue for the coming months, and no date has been set for 2010, that's all that was needed.
I see no harm asking about this again as things can change and decisions altered, it's no big job to be polite either.
By the way I am confused when you say there will be 2 Avast 4's running, why would this be? surely Avast 5 and Avast 4.8, or have I missed something?
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Hi,
I'll respond to your PM with my detailed thoughts - hopefully within the next couple of weeks or so.
In the meantime - can you tell us about your machine's age including info about any replacement motherboard and/or hard drive(s) and also size of hard drive(s) details of RAM and Speed in MHz?
Can you tell us if you have an external drive and/or any flash stick(s) and any strategies you have for backups and/or clones and what other security software (including firewall etc.) that you use?
Finally, since we don't know your identity, is that you cannot afford to update to a newer machine (with a later version of Windows) or is that, for whatever reason, you just like Win98?
My regards
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Hi Mike,
It's not to do with not being able to afford a new machine, it's the hassle of starting up again learning and also finding that stuff may not work, plus things like printers and scanners etc. And also all the stories one reads about Vista being rubbish, all this puts me off, so that's the reason.
I will PM you those details you asked.
Cheers
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I am sorry if I have been a nuisance, I thought that is what this forum was for, looks like I have been proved wrong.
And I certainly don't appreciate you trying to make a fool out of me either, I thought you may have learned from that on a previous occasion, obviously not.
<snip>.
It has nothing of trying to make a fool of anyone, but this ground has been covered many times before in topics that you participated in. All I have learned is that you repeatedly post the same questions and that basically I waste my time when responding.
I see no harm asking about this again as things can change and decisions altered, it's no big job to be polite either.
The answers haven't changed to the same questions.
I don't know where I was impolite, just stating facts ???
By the way I am confused when you say there will be 2 Avast 4's running, why would this be? surely Avast 5 and Avast 4.8, or have I missed something?
Currently if you look at the forum title you posted in "avast! 4.x Home/Pro" that is what is meant by two "avast 4 windows" versions being supported (4.8 and 5.0). So two versions of avast would be being actively supported for windows and not one as it currently is.
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You are the rudest helper I have ever come across, you are even worse than rdsok over at AVG, and that's saying something.
I'd prefer you to ignore me than to type the way you do to me on here.
Utter disgrace.
Wonder how you will cope with all the questions you receive for 5.
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Hi,
I ask the questions because if your current computer is big enough and fast enough you could probably dual boot Win98 and say, XP - but perhaps, especially at the beginning, only booting into XP when using it for your Internet connection and emails - there would be practically no learning curve and you could continue using Avast with its A1 protection.
A few years ago when visiting my far-away-sister-in-law, she had major problems with XP (but not because of any intrinsic deficiency in XP) and I had only 4 hours to fix them but never having previously used XP it was a really major hassle to find my way around (though I did just manage to fix everything). That experience turned me off XP and in any case I didn't want or need it then as I was a very happy with W98SE, however, as with yourself, the upcoming cessation of Avast support for W98 required/requires new thinking.
I now use Xubuntu (a free Linux version) and W98SE. I have many strategies to avoid disasters from viruses to hard disk failure. Xubuntu needs a major learning curve but if only used for Internet and emails it would take, I think, at most a few hours to become proficient. Also Xubuntu is so secure that Linux infections are almost unheard of and I can use the Linux version of Avast (which is expected to continue indefinitely) to continue to check for Windows infections - this will be important as cloning a clean system for a 20 minute full clone back is great but its not so clever to clone an already infected system.
My regards
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Hi all,
A year or so ago DavidR solved a problem for me and he has been a huge help to so many forum users.
He did once tell me off for posting in the wrong place but then he was probably right, and lots of you will know I'm not all honey - even my wife has tried, unsuccessfully, to part-exchange me a couple of times recently.
My regards
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how can such a thread exist ??? Gotta say I'm impressed with the fact anyone here's patient enough to answer the OP.
This topic should be either locked or deleted. Someone is running an obsolete piece of software and insulting the development teams that obviously won't waste their time anymore to support it.
If I run a forum and you came there to post something like that, I would ban you Sir ;D
edit: I wrote teams and not team as I'd bet anything someone like this is posting the same bs on other places ::)...Comodo, OnlineArmor etc...there's always there someone complaining the software doesn't run on his so called "machine", because he's either running win9x or/and a pentium 2 with 64 MB RAM...and then comes all the rest, MS is greedy etc...I got a nausea when I read stuff like that.
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Sorry Mate , Its not going to be available you will probably have to upgrade
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Running an old OS is not "insulting" per se, of course.
But, as told multiple times, avast! 5 will not support Win9x/ME/NT4; the requirement will be Windows 2000 and higher. The decision has multiple reasons and it's not going to change.
As for how long avast! 4.x is going to be supported, it's not known exactly at the moment. My guess is at least a year since avast! 5 is released.
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Running an old OS is not "insulting" per se, of course.
But, as told multiple times, avast! 5 will not support Win9x/ME/NT4; the requirement will be Windows 2000 and higher. The decision has multiple reasons and it's not going to change.
As for how long avast! 4.x is going to be supported, it's not known exactly at the moment. My guess is at least a year since avast! 5 is released.
running an old OS is not insulting, but expressing aggressiveness because the community isn't following and fully supporting, is not acceptable, and is insulting for those working on improving software year after year.
If you run Win9x, you're on your own, period. No comment, no if and how, no support whatsoever has to be expected. This world is moving, and I for one wouldn't waste a second taking extremely obsolete software into account, I wouldn't waste my time even listening.
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Aggressiveness, sorry, but this DavidR has been against me from day one, so before you start making allegations against me about banning etc please try to understand.
I forgot that someone had already said that they planned to keep Avast 4.8 running, but I just wanted to know how long for if that info was known, that's all I wanted to know, is that such a crime.
Sorry if I offended anyone. it certainly wasn't my intention, but I just think that DavidR could have answered this in a more softer approach, like I said previously, it doesn't take much to be courteous.
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nightshade, WHY ARE YOU RUNNING WINDOWS 98 ??? I know that's your damned right...if you want to believe all the nonsense that's been said about Vista, be it, but for Christ's sake, switch at least to XP, spend a couple of hours learning it (hey, it's still Windows, so no big deal ;) ) and forget Win9x. There are thousands and thousands of (good) reasons to switch to an NT based OS...it sounds so mad that I have to say it, after all these years.
can you at least understand that switching to a more recent OS and spend a bit of time learning it and getting used to it is worth the effort ? There are only benefits. Forget Microsoft earnings, think of yourself.
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I can also confirm that avast version 5.0 requires Windows 2000 and higher. Sorry for that, but there are many (and I mean many) technical reasons why we had to make this decision. The latest OSes (such as Win7) are so much different from the original Win95/98/ME that supporting both would basically force us to create two different avasts.
Can you tell me how long then Avast 4.8 will be available for users of the 98 system?
I am not promising anything but my understanding is that avast 4.8 will be supported (i.e. daily definition updates will be released) at least till mid-2010. But again, this is an unofficial, unconfirmed information.
Win98 still has many users.
It really depends on your definition of many.
This is the chart from the computers that have updating avast definitions during the last 7 days (roughly 350 million update attempts) -- see below.
As you can see, Windows 95/98/ME together make up ~ 0.54% of our userbase. Of course, this is still some 400+ thousand people, but it's simply not possible to justify the costs associated with the development of a Win9x version because of a half percent of our community.
I'm sorry... but I'm afraid it's time to move on and upgrade.
Cheers
Vlk
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Sorry if I offended anyone. it certainly wasn't my intention, but I just think that DavidR could have answered this in a more softer approach, like I said previously, it doesn't take much to be courteous.
I read the thread, have no awareness of any "history" between you and DavidR, and found his response to be informative and not discourteous at all.
Curiosity piqued, I decided to have a look at some earlier threads. Didn't take long to find one. (http://forum.avast.com/index.php?topic=42849.0) Not long at all. I even read three pages of it.
It seems to me all your questions were answered there. Why did you even post this thread? Wishful thinking?
To post this thread, then rudely berate a reasonable response is childish, churlish, and a little bit pathetic. >:(
+1 for locking it.
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Sorry if I offended anyone. it certainly wasn't my intention, but I just think that DavidR could have answered this in a more softer approach, like I said previously, it doesn't take much to be courteous.
I read the thread, have no awareness of any "history" between you and DavidR, and found his response to be informative and not discourteous at all.
Curiosity piqued, I decided to have a look at some earlier threads. Didn't take long to find one. (http://forum.avast.com/index.php?topic=42849.0) Not long at all. I even read three pages of it.
It seems to me all your questions were answered there. Why did you even post this thread? Wishful thinking?
To post this thread, then rudely berate a reasonable response is childish, churlish, and a little bit pathetic. >:(
+1 for locking it.
Tarq57,
So because you have no awareness it didn't happen, don't think so somehow.
And why the need to post this? does it make you feel good, I hope it did for your sake.
By the way, thank you Vlk for your detailed response, looks like there are people with a polite attitude, and I thank you for that.
;D
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And why the need to post this? does it make you feel good, I hope it did for your sake.
Not especially.
I just don't like unnecessary rudeness.
So because you have no awareness it didn't happen, don't think so somehow.
So deal with it in a PM. I've never found DavidR's responses or help rude.
On the other hand, you seem like a bit of a drama queen.
No offense.
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And why the need to post this? does it make you feel good, I hope it did for your sake.
Not especially.
I just don't like unnecessary rudeness.
So because you have no awareness it didn't happen, don't think so somehow.
So deal with it in a PM. I've never found DavidR's responses or help rude.
On the other hand, you seem like a bit of a drama queen.
No offense.
Why thank you sir for your kind comments.
;D
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nightshade, is there anything we can help you?
How much RAM do you have in your computer?
Did you Google for alternatives? Which ones did you find?
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You are the rudest helper I have ever come across, you are even worse than rdsok over at AVG, and that's saying something.
I'd prefer you to ignore me than to type the way you do to me on here.
Utter disgrace.
Wonder how you will cope with all the questions you receive for 5.
Rude what a joke, if you don't like it, hit the report to moderator link, there is nothing rude in my responses.
It seems that you simply can't take the truth, support for win98 can't last forever.
I certainly shan't waste any more of my time on your posts.
I will cope as I have done for the last five and a bit years.
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I will cope as I have done for the last five and a bit years.
Good for you , good for you.
::)
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Hi,
I'll respond to your PM with my detailed thoughts - hopefully within the next couple of weeks or so.
In the meantime - can you tell us about your machine's age including info about any replacement motherboard and/or hard drive(s) and also size of hard drive(s) details of RAM and Speed in MHz?
Can you tell us if you have an external drive and/or any flash stick(s) and any strategies you have for backups and/or clones and what other security software (including firewall etc.) that you use?
Finally, since we don't know your identity, is that you cannot afford to update to a newer machine (with a later version of Windows) or is that, for whatever reason, you just like Win98?
My regards
Read all the AVAST Forum's, (problems with all the newer OS'S) Thats mostly the reasons I still RUN ME (MY opinion) ;D
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Hi,
I'll respond to your PM with my detailed thoughts - hopefully within the next couple of weeks or so.
In the meantime - can you tell us about your machine's age including info about any replacement motherboard and/or hard drive(s) and also size of hard drive(s) details of RAM and Speed in MHz?
Can you tell us if you have an external drive and/or any flash stick(s) and any strategies you have for backups and/or clones and what other security software (including firewall etc.) that you use?
Finally, since we don't know your identity, is that you cannot afford to update to a newer machine (with a later version of Windows) or is that, for whatever reason, you just like Win98?
My regards
Read all the AVAST Forum's, (problems with all the newer OS'S) Thats mostly the reasons I still RUN ME (MY opinion) ;D
Hello hines232,
You kind of had the quotes in the wrong place, I have put them in the right place now, and thanks for your reply.
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okay, so.... Windows 95/98/ME is unsupported as of July 2006...2006-2009, its been 4 years it unsupported.. as you can see.. Windows 9x/ME kernel type was "monolithic", while windows 2000, XP, Vista and the upcoming 7 was "hybrid" ... that should be the reason that avast 5 beta was unsupported.. :-\ you see, avast 5 is gonna be VERY DIFFERENT than avast 4 and earlier.. However, u can download some drivers for your Win 9x that can support 2000/XP/Vista/7 applications (if its exists).. just like me... i use Windows XP and i download some driverrs that can support Windows Vista applications... but that just only a BETA (testing versions)..maybe the final release can support windows 9x/ME... :D
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Umm no hard feelings but...
I hope avast! will not be the cause of "some" trouble...
Believe me, Im not taking sides...
Avast! will do its best to meet ur needs...Thanks^^
-AnimeLover^^
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Hi :),
Im sorry that your OS wont be supported man,
I know there are alternatives for Win98 but i dont know anything free (except for Clamwin but that aint the best thing)
i know that NOD32 has a Windows 98 AV
http://www.eset.com/products/win9x.php
But i read now its supported till 2010, maybe there is a other alternative at that time :).
GL with it!
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maybe the final release can support windows 9x/ME... :D
No it won't unfortunately.
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For everyone who say that Windows 98 has relevant marketshare: it's not true:
http://marketshare.hitslink.com/report.aspx?qprid=10&qptimeframe=M&qpsp=124
It' only 0.1x %!
Windows 9x PCs should not browse in the web for security reasons. For offline PCs there are no virusscanner needed.
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End of support too. http://www.microsoft.com/windows/support/endofsupport.mspx
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Guy's,
We are all aware the support is no longer from microsoft, there's really no need for to supply links for this.
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Hi :),
Im sorry that your OS wont be supported man,
I know there are alternatives for Win98 but i dont know anything free (except for Clamwin but that aint the best thing)
i know that NOD32 has a Windows 98 AV
http://www.eset.com/products/win9x.php
But i read now its supported till 2010, maybe there is a other alternative at that time :).
GL with it!
Thanks---- :D I quick scaned the nod32 sight, forgive if I over looked this. Is it "real time", or "ondemand"
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Is there a free download file for NOD32 ?
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Is there a free download file for NOD32 ?
There are a lot of free NOD's :P,
But normally NOD isnt free :P
i think its real time hines, maybe you can a trial nod32 if Avast doesnt support Win 98 anymore.
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NOD32 for Microsoft Windows (on-demand scanner)
Is this what we could start to use then for the older systems, if so where do we get it?
Oh I see, here perhaps.....
http://www.eset.com/products/nod32.php
I wonder if this product has a time limitation, in other words how long can it be used for.
Thanks
Edit,
Confused now, it doesn't mention windows 98.
Processors supported: Intel or AMD x86/x64
Operating Systems: Microsoft Windows 2000, Microsoft Windows XP (32¬ and 64-bit editions), Microsoft Windows Vista (32- and 64-bit editions)
Memory: 44 MB
Disk Space (download): 28 MB
Disk Space (installation): 35 MB
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So I will go back to my original question, where do we get this and is it free?
ESET NOD32 Antivirus for Windows® 95/98/ME
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The link posted at reply 31 provides product information for the version that works with 95/98. There is no "download this" on that page. There is no indication it's free.
The way I see it, you'd perhaps have to copy the link, and email Eset (click on the "store" page, which redirects you to your local Eset site, then "purchase", then "contact us") with a product inquiry, perhaps including the copied link.
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The link posted at reply 31 provides product information for the version that works with 95/98. There is no "download this" on that page. There is no indication it's free.
The way I see it, you'd perhaps have to copy the link, and email Eset (click on the "store" page, which redirects you to your local Eset site, then "purchase", then "contact us") with a product inquiry, perhaps including the copied link.
Done, we'll see what they say.
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Guy's,
We are all aware the support is no longer from microsoft, there's really no need for to supply links for this.
It is time to you upgrade your OS to a better one
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It is time to you upgrade your OS to a better one
Yes I am aware of this!
::)
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Hi,
Yes, I know I'm breaking what some people consider to be protocol to reply on an old thread. But I came across this via a search, so it is still very much a relevant thread when you consider that.
I just wanted to say, I am an experienced, professional software engineer and computer hobbyest of many years, am still using windows 98SE on some of my computers. There are some VERY good reasons to use it in some cases. I think calling it "obsolete" and similar comments could be considered a bit demeaning and that is what the poster was upset about. This thread is what inspired me to sign up and post.
I recently started to run into this "no support for older OS" antivirus problem when AVG dropped support. I needed a temporary solution while I very grudgingly started switching my internet'ing machine over to one of my XP boxes, so I tried out Avast 4. But I would like to see someone continue support for a 9x antivirus because it is better to have an antivirus on all machines even if they aren't what is directly using the internet anymore.
To this end, I would give my business to any company willing to do so. Saying no one uses old OS's is incorrect. It alienates customers / potential customers to drop support for old OS's, so in the end, money is lost, not gained (assuming M$ is not paying companies under the table to drop support). It is not difficult at all to support software that considers all OS's, despite what some people are saying. I assume that if there are any responses, they will try to say that I am wrong on this point, but that would simply be incorrect, as facts are facts. It is a fact that I write a ton of software that works on everything from 95 to the newest Windows OS's and it is not difficult to do so for the vast majority of applications. And it is a fact that I have very legit reasons to use Windows 9x on some of my machines. It is a fact that there's a ton of 9x users still around despite manipulated studies and statistics. The whole M$ "end of support" thing is rather silly; I have 9x boxes installed and running just fine. The only real problem I've ever had is this recent issue of finding a half-way convenient tool to scan for viruses. The alternatives to that seem to be doing the scanning with XP boxes across the LAN or using a boot-based scanner, but that process is far less convenient.
I see that version 4 is supported for 9x. I would ask the company to keep the virus definition updates going if you want me as a home customer for any of the many OS's I use or to recommend your product for the businesses I work for; word of mouth = money. It was a big mistake to design version 5 only for later OS's, but it is still possible to maintain the definitions for version 4.
I'll also start a thread elsewhere on 9x support and some minor glitches I need to ask about, but since it is based on this thread it needed to be here first.
Thank you
win98user
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Thank you for your support in the windows 98 quest in the hope that Avast 4 can continue to support virus update definitions.
What I had been told is it's not worth the time and effort supporting windows 98 for the small percentage that still use it.
I wonder if Vlk will read this.
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@ win9 user: you're welcome :)
@ nightshade: he sure will :)
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It was a big mistake to design version 5 only for later OS's
Well, maybe you should start your own antivirus company/business if you know best.
The fact is, however, that it wasn't really an option to design version 5 for both Win9x and NT. Either there would be no version 5 at all (i.e. only small changes would be made, let's call it 4.9) - or two separate products would have to be created and maintained, which would be very expensive (money / time / effort...). I certainly don't believe that the current type of avast! 5 GUI would (if compiled as ANSI and without any missing dependencies) run on Win9x - with its notorious problems with GDI recources. We couldn't even move to a new version of the development tools (MSVC) - which is somehow more secure, generates slightly better/faster code, and makes it possible for us to work on a 64bit version. Even if you write a simple "hello world" application in new MSVC, it won't run on Win9x.
Saying no one uses old OS's is incorrect. It alienates customers / potential customers to drop support for old OS's, so in the end, money is lost, not gained
I'm afraid the math is quite simple, and it doesn't support your conclusions.
The ratio of Windows 95/98/ME users of avast! in the past 7 days was... 0.3%. I hope you undertand that bringing more features and more protection to 99.7% of users gains more money (because more users will like and use the product) than supporting the 0.3% minority.
If it were possible to support Win9x painlessly, we'd certainly do that - but it's not the case, the price would be very high, in all respects.
It is a fact that I write a ton of software that works on everything from 95 to the newest Windows OS's and it is not difficult to do so for the vast majority of applications.
What kind of software do you write? Low level applications with their own drivers? I doubt that.
Sure, if you write simple user-mode tools, then it may seem "easy" for you... but for a low level application, with parts of code being updated almost daily as part of the virus definitions (so you should test all changes on all the supported operating systems)... certainly not.
I would ask the company to keep the virus definition updates going
Virus definition updates will certainly go on until there are corresponding vertion 5 replacement for all the editions (server, network, ...)
But the pressure will certainly be to end the support reasonably soon after that - because even supporting v4 virus definition updates is quite expensive; and I'm not necessarily talking about money, but about the time and effort needed - which could be spent in a better way. Simply said, if v4 virus definitions wouldn't have to be maintained, avast! 5 would have better detection today, detect more malware and provide more protection - because the virus lab could focus on that, instead of spending their time on duplicating parts of their work.
So again, the question stands: do we want to provide better protection for 99.7% of our users, or for the other - 0.3% - part?
(and I'm sure the ratio will grow more and more).
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Ok igor, all that is fine and understood, but apart from having to update operating systems or even buying a new computer, what are the users of 98 to do if they want to keep their systems as they are?
Are they to forget about real-time programs and solely depend with the on demand scanners.
I can understand you turning round and saying why would we care, but to be truthful the only reason I am using this older system is for 2 reasons, first is I know it like the back of my hand, and secondly it does what I want it to do, but don't get me wrong, I fully appreciate what you say.
Can I further ask you where you get these stats for about the 3% ratio of 98 users?
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Hi igor,
Thank you for your response.
And thank you for the comment about starting my own company; LOL! I needed a good laugh. Sadly, I do not have the time nor enough interest in business-related issues.
With respect, I can unfortunately see that your opinions on software development and marketing differ from mine, or at least company policy prevents you from saying otherwise. In any case, your mind seems to be made up, so I will not debate the subjects. I do certainly appreciate you taking the time to read and respond to my post.
In answer to your questions and comments regarding development, I write software at all levels and of many varieties, from simple high-level applications to highly complex applications that require both high level and low level coding. When I have creative control over my project, I make it a point to only build modules with the tools that are intended for the target(s) in question, if there is a need for any low-level layer, or else the minimum required tools for purposes of backwards compatibility. This prevents issues like you mentioned for the "Hello world" example you gave. I do not use the newer versions of dev studio to build the modules that will run on 9x, for example.
I understand your confusion with what I suggested with regards to the low level / driver issues; I understand clearly that low-level driver differences and such would certainly require more development time, however many or most of us (meaning, anti-virus users who use win9x), would happily settle for only the higher-level on-demand scanner portion of the toolset (starting the process manually). I would be surprised if there was a realistic need for a driver in such a context. So the idea was not to support any low-level tools using drivers that would require significant extra development, just to keep the core tools, mainly the scanning app, compatible.
As far as version 4 support, I have to admit that I am quite surprised that the conversion from version 5-compatable antivirus definitions to version 4 definitions (and related testing app etc) is not fully automated and thus requires significant additional man-hours. I would have thought packaging the definitions up for version 4 would be an automated part of the build process for the version 5 packages. That's not an attempt to debate the point, simply clarification of my original assumption.
My follow-up question is about on-demand scanners. Since your company has the experience, could you please use your knowledge to at least provide us 9x users with some advise/recommendations on the following points? - thanks
- What are some options for antivirus tools that will likely continue to run on 9x after Avast drops support? When AVG dropped 9x support, the majority of recommendations were for Avast. So what's next?
- Regarding on-demand scanners, are you referring to tools that can still run natively within 9x? I had only looked at boot-time scanners so far (meaning, those that start from a boot disk (I think using a small version of linux) and don't care what OS you have installed). If there are good on-demand scanners that will continue to run from within 98, do you have any recommendations? Do you have one? (if not, there would obviously be a market for one that ran on 9x to replace the lack of 9x support in the full product - perhaps a stripped-down version of your version 4 product)
- If not, do you have a recommendation on a good boot-time scanner? Does Avast have such a product available? I have seen several mentioned that look promising, but I would certainly appreciate your input.
Thank you again for your help
Hi nightshade,
Thank you for your reponse. I didn't realize when I made my post that you would still be checking this thread. I hope we can find a good solution to this 9x issue. I should point out that if Avast doesn't work out, I have other ideas that I already mentioned (a boot-time scanner, scanning with an XP machine over LAN to shared drives). Not nearly as good as having the software directly available, but at least options.
Thanks
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Ok igor, all that is fine and understood, but apart from having to update operating systems or even buying a new computer, what are the users of 98 to do if they want to keep their systems as they are?
Are they to forget about real-time programs and solely depend with the on demand scanners.
I can understand you turning round and saying why would we care, but to be truthful the only reason I am using this older system is for 2 reasons, first is I know it like the back of my hand, and secondly it does what I want it to do, but don't get me wrong, I fully appreciate what you say.
Can I further ask you where you get these stats for about the 3% ratio of 98 users?
Hi nightshade
RAV Free still supports 98SE (according to their website (http://www.freerav.com/) anyway).
I'm still running avast! 4.8 on 95 and 98 machines but I'm realistically anticipating the day when i won't be able to. Recently I "inherited" a still-functional but 10 year-old Compaq Pentium 266 laptop which won't recognize more than the inbuilt 32MB RAM. I did "the usual", split the 3.2GB hard disk into 2 partitions so I can back up C:\ to an image on D:\ using Ghost, and it's running "naked", i.e no AV (albeit behind a router). In case of infection I can recover in 15 minutes.
Actually igor write 0.3% not 3%. If he's right it's ten times worse than you thought! :o
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Actually igor write 0.3% not 3%. If he's right it's ten times worse than you thought! :o
Yeah you're right, it was 0.3%
Isn't it strange though that Rising Antivirus Free Edition can support OS:Win98/Me/NT/2000/XP/2003/Vista/Win7; so why can't Avast?
I just might give them a try, thanks for the link.
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Maybe igor overwhelmed with information.
Summary: avast! 5 could not do what it does, as well as it does, if it was 9X compatible.
RAV looks slick and works well but you could say that
if RAV is a broadaxe, avast! 5 is a katana,
if RAV is a Skoda 110, avast! 5 is a Fiat X1/9...
you get the picture. ;D
Also, like avast! 4.8, not all RAV features will work on 98.
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As far as version 4 support, I have to admit that I am quite surprised that the conversion from version 5-compatable antivirus definitions to version 4 definitions (and related testing app etc) is not fully automated and thus requires significant additional man-hours. I would have thought packaging the definitions up for version 4 would be an automated part of the build process for the version 5 packages. That's not an attempt to debate the point, simply clarification of my original assumption.
Well, the compilation/release of virus definitions certainly is an automated process - so for that part, supporting avast! 4.x definitions only adds some delay (the definitions are released a few minutes later) and bandwidth. What I had on mind are the detections themselves... we've discovered some limits / weakness in the format of the virus database over the years it existed (hardly surprising - you always find that you could have done something better, especially when the target - malware to be detected - changes quite significantly during longer time-periods). So, we've prepared a new format for avast! 5 virus definitions - so that it's more flexible and powerful, thus making it possible to add complex detections in an easier way.
However, when we support avast! 4.x - either we can't use these new features at all (because avast! 4.x doesn't have them), or the detections have to be done twice, one for avast! 5 and a "duplicate" for avast! 4.x. Also, many of the detections are not simple signatures or checksums - they are complex pieces of code that relies on some underlying API... and now you have to APIs, the new powerful one and the old weak(er) one... and you have to support both, lots of #ifdefs, lots of similar "duplicit" code with lots of opportunities to make mistakes.
Also, some stuff isn't meant to be detected in avast! 4.x (PUPs, for example, because you cannot configure in 4.x whether to detect them or not) - so every such detection has to be marked as v5 only... more work again... etc.
So, to sum up - the virus databases (of avast! 4 and avast! 5) are not equivalent; they have a different format, they contain different code, they don't detect exactly the same. While many of the detections come from the same "source" indeed, there are parts that have to be maintained/handled separately.
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Again igor very good, but I ask again, what are users of 98 to do when the support drops? and there are 0.3% of us you know. ???
I have to be honest, the number of times I have been hit with a virus in the 10 years I could count on one hand, and they have been the ones when you visit a web page and given a message to abort the connection for example html iframe-inf and JS:ScriptIP-inf.
So of course I could be careful and only visit sites I can trust and not open suspicious email attachments, in other words sail along with no anti virus only using a spyware/malware prog.
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my advice:
(http://www.watton.org/drugsinfo/graphics/barbiturate.jpg)
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Come on Logos, be serious.
>:(
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Should Ford still continue to make parts for the model T-ford ........ ???
erm.....W98 CD is now very expensive ......http://forum.avast.com/index.php?topic=55038.0 ;D
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Come on Logos, be serious.
>:(
was gonna ask you the same, can you imagine that (excuse me now, I'm switching back to Windows 3.1... will be back in a sec to request Avast 5 support ;D ).
Look, if you decided that you wanted to spend the rest of your existence running a DX 33 and you're OK with that, then fine, but who could take that seriously, who ??? You either can't afford buying a new PC or you don't want to spend the bucks, that's again your problem. People should be lucky to be able to use Avast 5 on XP, and you're asking for Win98 support ??? with the pretext that that you're used to it? If you knew it that well, ie like I did when I was running it, it would take you a few hours to get used to XP, and then another few hours to get used to Vista etc...you got the idea. Windows is Windows and the interface, the GUI, hasn't changed fundamentally... it's still windows, icons and folders, just with more power with every new release, more stability and more security. So if you want to stay in your hole, stay in your hole you know, but avoid these rants in forums where 99,99% of users don't have your problems. May be you're still learning Win98...then come back when you're done with that and we'll give you a few tips on how to upgrade to 98SE ;D
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If you looked at my signature first you would know that I am running Windows 98 S.E, but then again you knew that, you were just trying to be smart and sarcastic.
As for rants, I don't know why you think this as we 98 S.E! users are only including ourselves in the debate, why is it that you and others think we are ranting, is this not what the forum is for i.e discussions.
Support for XP will be running out soon, and there is no way I could upgrade this system to Vista or Windows 7 due to the age of the hardware.
I think you were stooping low when you talk about not being able to afford a new PC, this can be a sensitive subject for some as many people can be hard up maybe lost their job and not working due to illness etc etc. Whether I can afford a new PC or not is my business, not yours or anyone else's for that matter.
Please try and be a bit more diplomatic for people that are not as up to date with their operating systems.
And by the way, we have had your story time and time again, if you had cared to look you would have saved yourself time. ;D
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I do pity you nightshade, again, go for the pills ;) ... hope you can eat tonight too :'(
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I do pity you nightshade, again, go for the pills ;) ... hope you can eat tonight too :'(
Don't need any pity from the likes of you mate. :P
You know what you can do with your windows 7, but I am too polite to say what. ;D
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I do pity you nightshade, again, go for the pills ;) ... hope you can eat tonight too :'(
Don't need any pity from the likes of you mate. :P
You know what you can do with your windows 7, but I am too polite to say what. ;D
Well I still pity you... because you words tell me how vulnerable you are, hold on, there will be better days, little proletarian :)
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I do pity you nightshade, again, go for the pills ;) ... hope you can eat tonight too :'(
Don't need any pity from the likes of you mate. :P
You know what you can do with your windows 7, but I am too polite to say what. ;D
Well I still pity you... because you words tell me how vulnerable you are, hold on, there will be better days, little proletarian :)
You're getting personal now, be warned, or I might just come and eat you. :D get my drift!
Now have some patience with yourself, I am sure will get a Dr's appointment soon.
Tool.
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I knew you were doing something wrong with Win98, therefore your advice, yep, I got your drift now, as to your warnings, stick'em where you already introduced Win98... very deep inside ;)
hint: Win98 would work better on a PC ;D
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Well from what I've seen seem that you, nightshade. is a bit rude with DavidR he is a good avast forum helper and he was only trying to make you understand why it is not supported.
If you guys have more info about the win 98 do you think ubuntu can be used there?
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I can recommend you free ubuntu 9 which I use + Avast free.. I think that nowadays binding with windows 98 is rather a matter of choice than a necessity
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Hi,
I am a little confused as to why the use of 9x would be a topic of debate here. However, it seems there is a need to clarify since it keeps coming up.
There are many good reasons to use any given OS, including 9x, depending on the circumstances. In some cases it is the best tool for the job. In others, it is not. In my case, there are many good reasons for using it on some of my boxes, but one of the biggest is that it is the right tool for the job given particular hardware and software. A lot of older hardware and software does not play well with newer OS's. I own and play a lot of older computer games (what got me interested in software engineering in the first place), which almost always work better on the machines for which they were designed (and yes, that is considering emulators). The assumption that newer is always better is flawed. It is a matter of context, i.e., what tools is best given a particular situation.
In terms of software development, I think supporting users still using 9x is the correct approach given that it is most often quite technically feasible, giving me yet another reason to have my 9x machines available.
I use a number of OS's, but 98SE has always been one of my favorite versions of Windows (along with NT4), as I am quite aware of the design flaws in the newer versions; they merely trade one set of problems for another (many being intentional design choices that I consider deeply flawed). Therefore, I don't subscribe to the concept that they are superior, and respect anyone who decides to stay with their current system rather than shelling out a bunch of money for a new one.
The list of reasons goes on and on, but frankly the current and most productive topic here is getting an antivirus to work on 9x. Since they have made it clear that Avast is determined to drop support, and AVG already has, I would suggest that the next step be continuing the suggestions on alternatives.
Hi yaslaw, Vladimyr, etc,
Thank you for the suggestions, I will try out Rising Antivirus Free and ubuntu.
win98user
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Norman Virus Control ( not free )
Any Pentium class PC running Windows 95/98/Me, Windows NT or 64 bits Windows.
For Windows 95 Internet Explorer version 4.0 or later is required.
For Windows NT Service Pack 4 or later is required.
US http://www.norman.com/home/all_products/antivirus/norman_virus_control_single_user/en-us
UK http://www.norman.com/home/all_products/antivirus/norman_virus_control_single_user/en-uk
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My system uses FAT32 and is an AMD Athlon processor, would this be ok do you think for Norman Virus Control?
I know it mentions 98 S.E, but I noticed that it mentions 64bit, so should it be alright for my system even though mine is not 64bit windows.
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Send mail and ask
http://www.norman.com/contact_norman/53956/61101/en-uk
Norman Support Foum
http://forum.norman.com/
Norman Virus Control for Windows forum
http://forum.norman.com/viewforum.php?f=1&sid=b111eb1febe852bba79f395077b6b738
It worked on my old Dell Dimension 433c W98 ....... ;)
Try before you buy
http://www.norman.com/downloads/home/58755/en-uk
User guide
http://www.norman.com/support/user_manuals/56759/en-uk
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I feel sorry for the dude. I really do. I have fond memories of 98SE. Like he said it was stable as hell and really nice.
However the team will not support a OS 12 years old. All I can suggest is buy a newer PC as upgrading the one you have will be harder and more expensive then just buying one.
As for continuing your use of 98.... I'm gonna assume you have the installation disc for it, why not create a virtual machine in Virtual PC? That way you'll be able to continue using 98 without the need to partition drives, dual boot, and you'll be able to run newer AV and ASs to.
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Norman Virus Control ( not free )
Any Pentium class PC running Windows 95/98/Me, Windows NT or 64 bits Windows.
For Windows 95 Internet Explorer version 4.0 or later is required.
For Windows NT Service Pack 4 or later is required.
US http://www.norman.com/home/all_products/antivirus/norman_virus_control_single_user/en-us
UK http://www.norman.com/home/all_products/antivirus/norman_virus_control_single_user/en-uk
Sorry to somewhat interrupt the discussion here, but on a side note, the current version of Avast! 5 is running just fine on my Windows 2000 Professional computer, and that was made for Windows 95 back in 1996.
(Cyrix P150+ CPU @ 150 MHz, 128MB of crappy, old RAM. Supported or not, it seems to work regardless. Yay for Avast's accidental compatibility?)
I haven't tested it yet, but I have gotten Avast 4 running just fine in Win95A/B/C and Win981st/2nd/gold, so I'd imagine that minus some lag and issues getting it up at first, Avast 5 will probably continue to work despite it not being supported.
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I enjoyed win3.1, win3.11 for work groups, win95, win98, win98se (which I hung on for a long time after XP was released even after XP SP1 was released), but in each case I saw it as an advancement.
I didn't leap immediately but after a time of consolidation I moved on, usually I upgraded my MB, CPU and RAM if needed rather than buy a new system, which keeps the cost down (there are also good deals on second user systems). I have had XP Pro for the longest of all of them and for those with concerns MS extended support for XP ends in April 2014 I believe.
I avoided Vista completely as I wasn't impressed by the hype or the early reports/reviews, it didn't have anything that I didn't already have or crucially need, all my programs worked fine and some old ones wouldn't work with Vista. Right now in the UK there are some second user systems with XP pre installed for under £100, advertised in MicroMart.
As For win7 I'm in no rush yet, probably wait for Service Pack 1 before making any decision, but now MS have started to make noises about win7s replacement, so perhaps I will wait some more ;D
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Norman Virus Control ( not free )
Any Pentium class PC running Windows 95/98/Me, Windows NT or 64 bits Windows.
For Windows 95 Internet Explorer version 4.0 or later is required.
For Windows NT Service Pack 4 or later is required.
US http://www.norman.com/home/all_products/antivirus/norman_virus_control_single_user/en-us
UK http://www.norman.com/home/all_products/antivirus/norman_virus_control_single_user/en-uk
Sorry to somewhat interrupt the discussion here, but on a side note, the current version of Avast! 5 is running just fine on my Windows 2000 Professional computer, and that was made for Windows 95 back in 1996.
(Cyrix P150+ CPU @ 150 MHz, 128MB of crappy, old RAM. Supported or not, it seems to work regardless. Yay for Avast's accidental compatibility?)
I haven't tested it yet, but I have gotten Avast 4 running just fine in Win95A/B/C and Win981st/2nd/gold, so I'd imagine that minus some lag and issues getting it up at first, Avast 5 will probably continue to work despite it not being supported.
I thought that a warning message would appear when trying to install Avast 5 on an un-supported system?
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Windows 2000 is supported (at least with all MS updates installed).
The support is not about the age of the system - but rather about it's capabilities. Windows 2000 is a fully Unicode, NT-based system... you can't compare it to Windows 95/98/ME, no matter if they are older or younger.
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So would Avast 5 still install on windows 98 but only work with certain things?
I ask as pondas says he had Avast 5 up and running fine on Win95A/B/C and Win981st/2nd/gold. ???
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No, the operating system is missing some components/functions the program is bound to, so the program wouldn't start or install.
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Hi Everyone...
Yet more months later I must add my "10penneth" ... Well I build systems for friends and family and above all for fun. I've just finished a basic gaming rig for my 11yr old (Win7,Athlonx2 2G oczDDR2, HD4850, lots of aircooling in gaming tower, HD 19" Screen) cost less than £100 ;- Wifes surfing/image editing/ebay tool (PhenomX3 2g DDR2 ram, Nvidia SLI onboard + PCIE) 17" hd monitor, My eldest sons, Upgrade tomorrow to Athlon Kuma will try to unlock cores, upgrade ram upgrade to 2g, OS to WIN7. My PC;- mostly a music creation tool, 4g OCZ Reaper, HD5450 graphics, M-audio Delta 2496 (delta 66 next week) Kuma 7850 Black Ed runs at 15c browsing, 25c under heavy load.... Your thinking "why has he mentioned all that on WIN98 thread?" BECAUSE brothers and twisters I am building a win98 music PC from old componants BECAUSE its a laugh, I enjoy tinkering. I had very little time with 95/98 before buying an XP tower in 2004. (My duel core lappy with 3g ram uses XP BTW, its better for DJ software than 7) I HAVE NO INTEREST IN vista (spits) but 98SE2 works really well. All I blooming well want is a free antivirus prog.... I've used Avast on any PC i get held of since 2007. The gaming mode is very useful and for a free tool it really is feature rich...
ANYHOW Couldnt some like minded geeks concoct a way of supporting Avast4 (with Avasts permission of course) A similar scenario is the way that leaded petrol IS available in a select few places, purely for folk running classic cars. I've built a CLASSIC computer and I would love to protect it. I am indebted to Avast for providing its software free for home use, as due to a wonky spine I am unwaged. I would in no way suggest that Avast (er 6 is it now?) be useable on NT and 9x... BUT I think it would be pretty cool to allow some folk access to the code to Avast 4 so they could build a "Classic" version. As I said, unsupported by yourselves, BUT the next schmo who asks for older OS support could be redirected.... Incidentally, I say "so they could build..." cos I'm bloody useless at software probs. Just to be annoying I'm going to post this as a start to a new topic, to see if theres any interest out there. Take care all.
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Replied in the other topic, http://forum.avast.com/index.php?topic=84438.0 (http://forum.avast.com/index.php?topic=84438.0), to let this one go back to sleep.