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Other => General Topics => Topic started by: polonus on October 23, 2009, 11:26:25 PM
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Hi malware fighters,
Windows 7 will become slow: Because of it's crappy nature the user must act to overcome these flaws.
Windows 7 is to a certain extent badly organized . Just like all its predecessors it inherited a lot of configuration- and management technologies of older Windows platforms, that are known not to cooperate flawlessly and so leave remainders in the Operational System. You could compare it to protesting youngsters that won't put the milk back in the fridge or don't crumb clean after two packs of cream crackers after a work-out
But extreme evil is being wrought by the Windows registry. This has given more head-aches than any other aspect of the Windows platforms. Empty keys, conflicting and outdated values, file fragmentation - are just a number of issues that will upset IT-staff regularly. The situation is bad enough that even MS will forget about accessing the registry (well not in Window7 it didn't), but a lot of newer projects use a simple XML-configuration in stead of the complex configuration of tons of register keys and -values.
Nobody can live with someone that will not cleanse up after making a mess. So you are there to crap clean Windows 7. System cleansing tools like CrapCleaner or ClearProg and ATF Cleaner will help you towards that goal. Also keep a good policy of what you install and de-install (a big source of crap are old software installation and uninstalls - use Secunia PSI to automatically run this process and keep every third party software installs up to date and bug-free. And in case it won't work like it should, make your back-ups regularly, and/or use the mother of all problem-solvers - a clean install and Windows7 will again smell anew,
polonus
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so is not it normal if people think of buy a Mac instead Windows?
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Hi Omid Farhang,
I tried to give this as neutral as could be, and a lot can be done to make these flaws less striking.
Because of your comment I will just mention these points.
I will recall the main 7 flaws - Windows will produce thoughts like your comment - Windows 7 will eat a lot of hardware - it will cost you again and again (firmware and for those those that decided to skip Vista alltogether, where is that XP upgrade) - some zelots think that Windows7 is a resurrect of Windows 95, and they can help a lot to have it generally accepted,the above after a topic by Randall C. Kennedy for ComputerWorld....
polonus
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so is not it normal if people think of buy a Mac instead Windows?
Of course, Apple seem to want us to think so (http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2354674,00.asp). However, from either side, it's just marketing. Sometimes, it's scary to see how manipulative marketing is.
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Hi Rumpel,
You are right, and that is your big point for us not to feel misled by this. That is why I say if you have XP SP3 with a normal user account - why would you need the additional security Window7 will bring by default now? Features sold as benefits that is the main trick here. Thank you for presenting this view here,
pol
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Hi, polonus.
I wonder if I can be thanked from the others as well. I guess I'd better go now. ;D Jokes aside, I feel uneasy to see so many people around me suddenly began to show interest in Windows 7 not depending on their knowledge on computers.
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thanks polonus for the response.
sadly, I don't like Windows 7 yet! "Windows Registry" is one of the things a very long ago I wrote about that in one of my blogs, I don't like the way Microsoft Developer are working, they have write an OS which is too weak and easy to disturb.
Microsoft could write an OS which has not a weak point like widows registry or some very essential components which by touching them windows crash or being useless...
even "Sandbox" idea which is being popular now is what Microsoft should use very long ago to let programs install in a safe place, a place different than windows core, not all system files and windows applications together.
I want some of my idea in question style:
* why Microsoft did not work on a system which let(force) programs install all their files only in "One" directory?
by doing these, it was more easy to create setup for applications and both expert and newbie users could install/install programs more easy and newbie mistakes (for example "delete" install directory from program files instead uninstall it) would not harm windows that much like now.
* why Microsoft did not isolate or remove "Windows Registry" from windows by replace some new features more immunized againest poor setup or malware etc.?
Microsoft Could change Windows registry to do it impossible to touch by setup files or Malware etc. and add some new feature, for example a place to set files acc. for programs. even in current registry there are more than 3 places which need to setup for a program acc. for a file format... it show how poor-managed is windows features...
I got a backup from windows registry (whole), it was 90 MB, after upgarde windows to SP2 and install nero it was 200MB... WTF? what does Microsoft think about this?
* Why Microsoft did not work over "Windows Services" better?
every windows when boot-up, a lot of services run, ok, every OS need them, but why this much funny?
There are many computers which are not connected to a network, even they have not a network hardware, but in all of them there are (at least) 4 service running for network (at least in vista it does). why Microsoft did not work more smart about this when does service could became Manual and start running when Network drive notify them? same about many more services which half of service are not "essential" and can run/stop when we need them.
* why Microsoft windows come with many useless pre-installed components and has not many features which almost every one need?
take a look at system32 folder, there are so many components which almost everyone has not used them, but when we install windows it would take from 2 Hours to 48 Hours to setup programs we need to configure our installed OS in the way we need it.
* why Microsoft did not make it more easy to find "trusted Programs" for Microsoft windows?
in ubuntu you can easily find programs you need and install or uninstall them with only 2 clicks, it would download and install programs itself easy! but for windows you need to search yourself and take all the risks (such as getting infected, scams, phishing etc...) and maybe one they you would find what you were looking for...
* why Windows need this much maintenance?!
why windows core is not untouchable to works forever like first day? like a mobile OS or Computer BIOS etc? why windows don't install an untouchable core and run everything in an environment like Sandbox (something like that) to don't be able to hurt?!
and many things more...
now what do you think about my perspective?
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Hi malware fighters,
Windows 7 will become slow: Because of it's crappy nature the user must act to overcome these flaws.
Windows 7 is to a certain extent badly organized . Just like all its predecessors it inherited a lot of configuration- and management technologies of older Windows platforms, that are known not to cooperate flawlessly and so leave remainders in the Operational System. You could compare it to protesting youngsters that won't put the milk back in the fridge or don't crumb clean after two packs of cream crackers after a work-out
But extreme evil is being wrought by the Windows registry. This has given more head-aches than any other aspect of the Windows platforms. Empty keys, conflicting and outdated values, file fragmentation - are just a number of issues that will upset IT-staff regularly. The situation is bad enough that even MS will forget about accessing the registry (well not in Window7 it didn't), but a lot of newer projects use a simple XML-configuration in stead of the complex configuration of tons of register keys and -values.
Nobody can live with someone that will not cleanse up after making a mess. So you are there to crap clean Windows 7. System cleansing tools like CrapCleaner or ClearProg and ATF Cleaner will help you towards that goal. Also keep a good policy of what you install and de-install (a big source of crap are old software installation and uninstalls - use Secunia PSI to automatically run this process and keep every third party software installs up to date and bug-free. And in case it won't work like it should, make your back-ups regularly, and/or use the mother of all problem-solvers - a clean install and Windows7 will again smell anew,
polonus
This may have been true in the past with older win versions but Vista/7 are a different story.
Damian, speaking from my own experience with a few months of win 7 testing under my belt, 7 is FAR SUPERIOR to any other windows version i have used in the past. And i used everything from win 3.1 onwards. For me 7 is the best OS i have ever used, period. No mac, no linux distro can come close that's how good i think it is. And another thing, can anybody actually prove that having a larger registry actually slows anything down ? Don't think so, another bs myth. File fragmentation ? Aware that in Vista/7 the defragmenter is already scheduled to be run on a weekly basis ? Also aware that the registry in Vista and 7 runs in virtualized mode ?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_Registry#Registry_virtualization
Taking care of Vista/7 health is a much much simpler task than taking care of win xp...
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This may have been true in the past with older win versions but Vista/7 are a different story.
Damian, speaking from my own experience with a few months of win 7 testing under my belt, 7 is FAR SUPERIOR to any other windows version i have used in the past. And i used everything from win 3.1 onwards. For me 7 is the best OS i have ever used, period. No mac, no linux distro can come close that's how good i think it is. And another thing, can anybody actually prove that having a larger registry actually slows anything down ? Don't think so, another bs myth. File fragmentation ? Aware that in Vista/7 the defragmenter is already scheduled to be run on a weekly basis ? Also aware that the registry in Vista and 7 runs in virtualized mode ?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_Registry#Registry_virtualization
Taking care of Vista/7 health is a much much simpler task than taking care of win xp...
please don't see me as a negative person and I respect your experience. but there are something I would like to talk about if it's not off-topic.
-what does 7 has which we can call is "Best" or in your word "FAR SUPERIOR"?
-do you really think "Registry virtualization" is a soloution for windows weakness? yet by touching 2-3 registry keys windows can die, yet registry is best place for malwares...
-how good is scheduled defragmention? is it smart enough to don't defrag when you are hard-working? is it smart enough to defrag when your computer and hard disk/cpu/ram idle? is it able to defrag when your hard is almost full?
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The pros and cons of switching to Windows 7
By Woody Leonhard
If you're still sitting on the fence about upgrading to Windows 7 — after all, it's been widely available for all of a few hours now — I'd like to regale you with my top eight reasons to jump in with both feet.
I'll also tell you three possible reasons for keeping the new OS on the shelf — for a while, at least.
http://windowssecrets.com/2009/10/22/01-The-pros-and-cons-of-switching-to-Windows-7
@ polonus
Are you in the 3. If your PC isn't up to snuff, fuhgeddaboutit! category?
Windows 7 Upgrade Advisor
http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?displaylang=en&FamilyID=1b544e90-7659-4bd9-9e51-2497c146af15
My XP Pro system is in that category so I saved up until I could afford a Vista capable system last March and installed Windows 7 Evaluation copy. Build 7100 as soon as it became available and never regretted it.
Those that live by the gun will die by the gun.
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please don't see me as a negative person and I respect your experience. but there are something I would like to talk about if it's not off-topic.
No problem, you are what i would call an intellectually curious person and that's ok in my book ! ;)
-what does 7 has which we can call is "Best" or in your word "FAR SUPERIOR"?
Good UI, nice in-built tools(i use media center alot and i love it, the in-built backup tool is great aswell, just to name 2 examples), stability(not a single bsod or any other problem over here) and most important for me personally is THE SPEED. Boot up is fast my friend, when i first installed it i couldn't believe my eyes, i kept rebooting for over an hour with a big smile on my face. ;D It's not just that, it's the whole snappines of the system, file copying etc. Honestly you don't need to run any benchmarks to feel the difference compared to Vista.
-do you really think "Registry virtualization" is a soloution for windows weakness? yet by touching 2-3 registry keys windows can die, yet registry is best place for malwares...
Not a complete solution but a step in the right direction and it does improve the situation for sure. Have not had a single problem with the registry with Vista/7 and yes i never clean it and i install ALOT of programs(i like testing new stuff). Was not the case when i used xp or previous win versions.
-how good is scheduled defragmention? is it smart enough to don't defrag when you are hard-working? is it smart enough to defrag when your computer and hard disk/cpu/ram idle? is it able to defrag when your hard is almost full?
Actually it only defrags when the pc is idle. ;) As for the last question i'm not really sure buddy. If i remember correctly the limit in xp was 15 percent. For 7 i have no idea but considering how much it has improved over the one in Vista and xp i wouldn't be surprised if that was lower. But i really don't know, we will have to google that one. I use PerfectDisk and i do my defragging with that. It has been a good companion to me for a few yrs now so i don't really use windows defrag(only on other pc's).
I do have a nice blog from ms in my bookmarks, maybe there's more info in there but it's 1:20 am over here and i just got back from work so i am a bit tired and don't have the time/will to read it now or google around for more info. Tomorrow. :) Here's the link to that blog if you are interested.
http://blogs.msdn.com/e7/archive/2009/01/25/disk-defragmentation-background-and-engineering-the-windows-7-improvements.aspx
EDIT: Typo's ...
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@darth_mikey: Thanks for reply :)
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-how good is scheduled defragmention?
Read these:
http://www.downloadsquad.com/2009/01/26/how-windows-7-handles-disk-defragmenting
Disk Defragmentation – Background and Engineering the Windows 7 Improvements
http://blogs.msdn.com/e7/archive/2009/01/25/disk-defragmentation-background-and-engineering-the-windows-7-improvements.aspx
is it smart enough to don't defrag when you are hard-working?
Yes
is it smart enough to defrag when your computer and hard disk/cpu/ram idle?
Yes.
is it able to defrag when your hard is almost full?
With the cost of hard drives so cheap these days why worry about this.
“Best practices for using defragmentation in Windows 7 are simple – you do not need to do anything! Defragmentation is scheduled to automatically run periodically and in the background with minimal impact to foreground activity. This ensures that data on your hard disk drives is efficiently placed, so the system can provide optimal responsiveness,” Nagar and Garson concluded.
http://news.softpedia.com/news/Windows-7-Defragmentation-Engine-the-Evolution-102941.shtml
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No problem Omid ! :)
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@YoKenny: thanks, so it seems a few better!
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O.K. I guess I'd wait and see if Windows 7 will really lives up to its promise this time around. There was a fuss when Vista was released but it couldn't live up with the promise. Even Mark Shuttleworth admitted the effort of Microsoft to some extent although he also couldn't but mention that MS hardened their policy about licensing against Linux as the other side of their effort. (http://www.channelregister.co.uk/2009/10/22/windows_7_what_we_learned/)
The open-source community's reaction Windows 7 ranges from the biblical to the urbane. Ubuntu founder Mark Shuttleworth typifies the latter, welcoming a clean fight on netbooks, after Microsoft prolonged the life of Windows XP in the shadow of Windows Vista to provide a low-priced and functioning copy of Windows on netbooks against Linux.
From what he's seen, Shuttleworth actually quite likes Windows 7. "I'm not going to 'diss it", he told us around beta time in January. "We are in an awkward situation now because they are giving away XP in the netbook market - they are literally giving it way to OEMs," he claimed then and sticks to now... You can make the argument Linux is more expensive than Windows XP because Microsoft has been very aggressive in licensing." Shuttleworth plans to take on Windows 7 with Ubuntu 9.10, Karmic Koala, due next week.
Due to their "failure" in Vista, Microsoft seems to have learned to listen to the users as well as their "partner" companies. I guess Microsoft seems to have done their best in securing their position against other OS's such as Google Chrome OS and Snow Leopard. In any case, if these companies are going to polish their products for their users, I think the free market is working rather properly.
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O.K. I guess I'd wait and see if Windows 7 will really lives up to its promise this time around...
this was the whole point of the beta and the RC, you would know by now, may be ;) ...as to what Shuttleworth thinks, honestly ::) but it's your absolute damned right to refer to him, and keep waiting (I mean even the good things that Shuttleworth could/can say about Windows are of poor, very poor interest...Ubuntu being the worse piece of crap I've ever seen on a computer).
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Hi Omid Farhang,
Starting again on a positive note, my good friend,
So, but when to tackle such issues in Windows?
You should clean your Registry as part of troubleshooting a software problem.
The problem could be specifically with Windows,
or it could be a third party software application or game.
I recommend people therefore to crap clean before shutdown
and to use Secunia PSI to watch over the update status of third party software...
A Registry cleaner scans through the Windows Registry
and removes information that's no longer needed.
But when everything runs without problems and
you did not cause the problem yourself, leave your hands off of the registry....
Back up your registry at regular times is always a good option...
Also check your programs with Dependency Walker and dll checker...
As Windows and your other software operate,
they should automatically "clean up" after themselves.
But they don't always, and over time electronic residue and debris build up.
The Registry grows bloated.
If this gets bad enough,
it could start interfering with normal operation.
The Registry concept was introduced in Windows 95.
Part of the reason was to have one gigantic centralized place to store software information.
This made programming easier and helped Windows operate more efficiently.
Theoretically.
In practice, it's taken a while for Microsoft to get the Registry operating properly.
Some would argue there are still flaws in the Registry concept itself.
But usually, Windows XP machines are pretty Registry-stable.
If you think you may need to clean your Registry,
here are reasons and situations that could indicate it's time for Registry "hoovering":
A program uninstall had problems, and the software wasn't uninstalled properly.
After installing or uninstalling a program, Windows starts crashing or acting funny.
First try additional and specific uninstallers.....
You've installed and uninstalled lots (and lots) of software over the years,
and are noticing more and more errors when doing so.
You're running Windows ME, Windows 2000 or older software,
and are noticing problems like those above.
These versions of Windows were less efficient at Registry management.
Also read about the ScanReg and System Restore tools,
as both of them are programs allowing you to save "snapshots" of your registry at different times.
You can then reload old versions as needed to restore your system back to a (pre-problem) state.
Also SpywareBlaster can regularly take scanshots of the Registry.....
polonus
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thanks polonus for reply.
all you said are very good for taking care of windows registry.
but I could not express what's in my mind. I am saying why windows should be in the way that need this much "maintenance"? why it's not solid enough?
from another view, I want to say why it should has "registry"? why "Windows and registry area" is not untouchable like BIOS, different from Additional Programs area and only allow to change some variant to let it be customizable for user?
it's what I wish I could get answer for that from Microsoft.
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@ polonus:
you're sure SpywareBlaster includes the registry in its snapshots ?
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O.K. I guess I'd wait and see if Windows 7 will really lives up to its promise this time around...
this was the whole point of the beta and the RC, you would know by now, may be ;) ...as to what Shuttleworth thinks, honestly ::) but it's your absolute damned right to refer to him, and keep waiting (I mean even the good things that Shuttleworth could/can say about Windows are of poor, very poor interest...Ubuntu being the worse piece of crap I've ever seen on a computer).
Yes, MS development team seem to have done quite a nice job with communicating with the users and their effort shouldn't be ignored, although Alwil has been doing this quite a long time. ;) I don't use much of Linux but it's very stable system with much better memory usage. However, it's still behind Windows when considering the ease-of-use for wider range of people. It is definitely MS who made PC this popular through defacto-standard. However, Ubuntu's source for profit is still based on old Linux style, means, they keep the company through offering services. Now, Google Chrome OS, which seems to be similarly Debian-based, comes into the sight. As you know, Google has a different source either from MS or old Linux style. Also, their web services are pretty popular. Now is my point...can Linux be successful if it is backed by Google? This is the joint where my previous post and the other post I quoted come together and my question to the future.
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yeah, I wouldn't say about Linux in general what I stated here about Ubuntu. It's really Ubuntu that I can't stand, not Linux, and there are features that I do really appreciate, may be not the topic here. But even at its best (what I consider its best) Linux remains behind, far behind Windows. I've also been wondering about possible major changes with Google Chrome OS next year...being Google, it was easy for them to get in touch and make agreements with the major OEMs...just the MS way ;) ... so there's another side of Linux that might emerge soon, let's wait and see...