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Other => General Topics => Topic started by: polonus on January 01, 2010, 03:34:12 AM

Title: MS openly declared war on linux (and open software)
Post by: polonus on January 01, 2010, 03:34:12 AM
Hi malware fighters,

When a computer has XP installed I hope it has XP SP3 on it, it is run without full admin rights, or safeXP is installed, the user will use a browser with script blocking and request policy add-ons installed like Firefox with NoScript and RequestPolicy, a configuration like that will make any av solution more secure.
If not Windows XP will soon be the malware getto because it is coming near the end of its life cycle, and a decennium is a very long time in terms of Windows computers, as a computer out of the box and installed a la default also for applications it is les secure, but secured in the right way it can survive another couple of years.

On the other hand developers etc. will leave the platform just like they did for Win 95 and Win 98 SE and off course MS wants it that way, they openly declared war on linux now and advertised for an anti-linux manager: https://careers.microsoft.com/JobDetails.aspx?ss=&pg=0&so=&rw=1&jid=9914&jlang=EN

polonus
Title: Re: MS openly declared war on linux (and open software)
Post by: bob3160 on January 01, 2010, 03:46:11 AM
If I used your interpretation Damian then it would also be true that every company has declared war on each of it's competitors.
That is the nature of competition. No company worth it's salt will ever be happy with the market share they currently have.
They will always strive to increase their market share and thereby seek to eliminate their competition.
I'm sure Alwil has that same drive and cunning to achieve the top position in the security industry. :)
Title: Re: MS openly declared war on linux (and open software)
Post by: polonus on January 01, 2010, 03:53:56 AM
Hi bob3160,

It is a natural thing, and I just gave the facts as I found them, it made the big newspapers here in Holland, that's why,

Damian
Title: Re: MS openly declared war on linux (and open software)
Post by: Chris Thomas on January 01, 2010, 11:01:20 AM
Isn't this an old game? MS can't defeat Linux and Linux can't defeat MS

They are both here to stay.

Open Source will never go away
Title: Re: MS openly declared war on linux (and open software)
Post by: Hermite15 on January 01, 2010, 11:10:49 AM
Quote
MS can't defeat Linux and Linux can't defeat MS

not sure this describes the situation...MS is defeating Linux constantly, it's not even a goal, it's a natural fact. Does 95% vs 1% answer any doubt you may have ?  ;)
Title: Re: MS openly declared war on linux (and open software)
Post by: .: L' arc :. on January 01, 2010, 11:21:44 AM
I always have backup OS just in case Windows fail. Linux | Windows = dual boot. :)

I guess, they should consider it as a mutualism rather a parasitism.
Title: Re: MS openly declared war on linux (and open software)
Post by: Chris Thomas on January 01, 2010, 12:12:15 PM
I agree with your point Logos :)

MS is defeating Linux but Linux is not dead till now.

That is what I meant by MS can't defeat Linux and Linux can't defeat MS

MS cannot eradicate Linux completely nor  can Linux do anything substantial against MS.

Desktop market share of Linux range from less than 1% to 2.14%. In comparison, Microsoft operating systems hold more than 85%

In September 2008 Microsoft CEO Steve Ballmer admitted that 60% of web-servers run Linux versus 40% that run Windows Server.

The Linux market is growing rapidly, and the revenue of servers, desktops, and packaged software running Linux was expected to exceed $35.7 billion by 2008.

Linux is a tough shit that never dies

Title: Re: MS openly declared war on linux (and open software)
Post by: ardvark on January 01, 2010, 12:36:53 PM
not sure this describes the situation...MS is defeating Linux constantly, it's not even a goal, it's a natural fact. Does 95% vs 1% answer any doubt you may have ?  ;)

Hi all...

I'm convinced Linux and the Linux community would fare a better chance of increasing their "desktop" usage (end users like you and I) and becoming more competitive with Microsoft if some changes were made in how they construct the OS and how it it is supported. I used Ubuntu 5.10 for 5 months between October, 2006 and March, 2007 as my primary OS and was able to form some opinions...

1. Increase the functionality and ease of use to where even beginning users can navigate and work with the OS and software with ease. With Windows, it's really a matter of "point, click, install, it works!" most of the time. Only technical work requires the command line. With Linux, knowledge of command line language and code is required. Installing software and drivers can be a real headache and no one who is an average user is going to know or even want to know how to compile or "make" the individual software packages, particularly those in tar.gz format. Ubuntu's "synaptic package manager" is a good start but not close enough to how easy it is in Windows. Drivers often require messing with the X11 file or some other configuration file which for a beginning or average user, is going to be prohibitive. Some folks can learn, others will have absolutely no idea. :(

2. Driver quality and source has to be improved. Because many companies refuse to release the source code or contribute drivers of their own to the Linux community, the community is forced to write their own drivers, sometimes (or often) by reverse engineering, which often fail to take full advantage of the abilities of the given device. Some devices, like wireless networking chipsets and software modems, are still are not fully supported in Linux. The writers of Linux are going to have to somehow persuade a great many of these companies to write decent drivers for Linux that are comparable to their Windows counterparts. It's possible that this will require a "royalty" system of some kind, where the various organizations who make Linux, like Red Hat and Canonical contribute funds to pay these companies to write these drivers.

3. There needs to be a change of attitude with respect to support. Granted, some Linux distributions, like Red hat, have established means of professional support (at a cost but no different in most cases with Microsoft,) where a person can receive help from a real person by calling the company's technical support line. However, in a lot of cases, if not most, getting help with a technical issue in Linux means researching the issue on the internet and/or seeking assistance and the distribution's help forum where someone is bound to receive something like "go read the *blank* man page! (or documentation of some kind)" or "Google is your friend, look it up." If they do get help, it most likely involves a highly convoluted process that might help in solving the problem. A lot of these forums use the help of other distribution users, not technicians. Ubuntu's forum is, I think, friendlier than some, but I've seen my share of "attitudes" there as well and it has to stop. Calling people "noobs" and displaying a arrogant, superior attitude towards people who don't much about computers, let alone a complicated operating system that doesn't work like Windows, isn't going to cut it. Linux needs to develop more traditional paid support options that includes being able to speak to a live technician who is required to display a degree of professionalism. Forums should no longer be the primary means of support.

These are some of my conclusions after an interesting 5 months of dealing with this OS. Although I have to say, I learned quite a bit about Linux in those months. :)

May God bless you :)
Title: Re: MS openly declared war on linux (and open software)
Post by: OrangeCrate on January 01, 2010, 01:10:11 PM
Quote
MS can't defeat Linux and Linux can't defeat MS

not sure this describes the situation...MS is defeating Linux constantly, it's not even a goal, it's a natural fact. Does 95% vs 1% answer any doubt you may have ?  ;)

That comparison is inaccurate at best. Why? Because, you can't track Linux's sales numbers to compare with Microsoft, because there are no sales numbers. With the exception of enterprise applications (both server and desktop adoption), desktop Linux is free to distribute (no one knows for sure who's using it, whether it be freestanding, or as part of a dual boot). Linux desktop market share (always a guess, for the reason mentioned) has been reported to be as high as 12-14%, though current consensus (at least what I've read) seems to put the number at 4-5%.

Title: Re: MS openly declared war on linux (and open software)
Post by: Hermite15 on January 01, 2010, 02:00:19 PM
Quote
Linux desktop market share (always a guess, for the reason mentioned) has been reported to be as high as 12-14%

come on  ::) this is laughable  ;D

adding: and btw the 1% number is the result of web analysis of course  :D ...and is probably relevant and acknowledged by most Linux communities and forums  ;)
Title: Re: MS openly declared war on linux (and open software)
Post by: OrangeCrate on January 01, 2010, 02:22:06 PM
Quote
Linux desktop market share (always a guess, for the reason mentioned) has been reported to be as high as 12-14%

come on  ::) this is laughable  ;D

adding: and btw the 1% number is the result of web analysis of course  :D ...and is probably relevant and acknowledged by most Linux communities and forums ;)

For reasons I already mentioned, Linux usage numbers are all over the board. Here's a couple of articles discussing Linux market share, that back up my previous post. You can easily find others on your own...

http://itmanagement.earthweb.com/osrc/article.php/3818696/Linux-Desktop-Market-Share-Greater-Than-One-Percent.htm

http://www.linuxplanet.com/linuxplanet/reports/6671/1/




Title: Re: MS openly declared war on linux (and open software)
Post by: Hermite15 on January 01, 2010, 02:24:05 PM

Here's just one article discussing Linux market share. You can easily find others on your own...

look crate, I don't think I'll bother  ;D
Title: Re: MS openly declared war on linux (and open software)
Post by: OrangeCrate on January 01, 2010, 03:02:57 PM

Here's just one article discussing Linux market share. You can easily find others on your own...

look crate, I don't think I'll bother  ;D

I didn't think you would. It's always easier to rely on some opinion you pull out of your, uh, "tail feathers", than to check out the current thinking on things, eh?  ;D

Anyway, you're entitled to your opinion, so there's no more argument from me.

 :)
Title: Re: MS openly declared war on linux (and open software)
Post by: Hermite15 on January 01, 2010, 03:17:20 PM
did I share with you my Linux experience, not I didn't, you don't know anything and I don't feel like going into details, so yeah let's leave it there  ::)
Title: Re: MS openly declared war on linux (and open software)
Post by: OrangeCrate on January 01, 2010, 03:32:48 PM
did I share with you my Linux experience, not I didn't, you don't know anything and I don't feel like going into details, so yeah let's leave it there  ::)

Go ahead and share it.

My personal experience with Linux spans eight years (4 years as my primary operating system), with extensive experience with Debian, OzOS (an E17 distro), and Ubuntu, plus a good working knowledge of OpenSuse and Fedora.

Another thread here highlights my experience with a new computer that I purchased a year ago, that had Vista installed. Rather than erase it, I kept it around in a dual boot, and recently updated it to Windows 7 (which I like a lot, by the way). Frankly, I very seldom ever boot into Windows, but as long as I have it around, and since I still use Avast as one layer of my protection package, I periodically check in here to see what's going on. I've been a member around here since my XP dual boot days (Joining in 2005, I guess).

So, tell me about your Linux experience...

(I'm a big boy, I can take it. :))
Title: Re: MS openly declared war on linux (and open software)
Post by: polonus on January 01, 2010, 03:52:32 PM
Hi OrangeCrate and Logos,

MS is certainly hurt but not where Linux as an operational system is concerned (the competition is only marginal), but where open software as a competitor is concerned. "The free not like in ...." is hurting them, and it is not only Firefox and GoogleChrome browsers versus IE6, it is search-engines and GMail, it is when businesses also start to use open software alternatives on a larger scale that it will be hurting MS business model and share and big rival Google is not sleeping either, and we do not know what cards they have stuck up their sleeves...
MS is afraid of a competitive market, it has not experienced that for years. It would not be so bad if either of the two would know how to combine the visions and or eh missions...

polonus
Title: Re: MS openly declared war on linux (and open software)
Post by: Hermite15 on January 01, 2010, 03:58:42 PM
MS is certainly hurt but not where Linux as an operational system is concerned (the competition is only marginal), but where open software as a competitor is concerned.

I absolutely agree, they got more to fear from OSS than from OS'es  ;D ... the situation is more like OpenOffice, Firefox, Thunderbird, and other OSS examples indeed constitute a threat to MS market share, it's known, acknowledged, explained, and proven.
Title: Re: MS openly declared war on linux (and open software)
Post by: polonus on January 01, 2010, 04:03:53 PM
Hi Logos,

And it is a good thing for the computer user as such and it will keep MS competitive (keen, also a good thing) - so it only has benefits, also for MS,

polonus
Title: Re: MS openly declared war on linux (and open software)
Post by: RZPogi on January 01, 2010, 04:14:52 PM
Competition may remove the monopoly by microsoft.

US filed against MS because of monopoly.
Title: Re: MS openly declared war on linux (and open software)
Post by: Shiw Liang on January 01, 2010, 05:49:16 PM
All the expert in communication in my country use linux :)
I think school should also have linux for the children not to install games etc... in the computer messing around with it >:(
The computers at school are extremely slow now :-\
Title: Re: MS openly declared war on linux (and open software)
Post by: bob3160 on January 01, 2010, 06:16:14 PM
Competition may remove the monopoly by microsoft.

US filed against MS because of monopoly.
Us and EU filed against Microsoft because of greed and because they knew they could get away with it.
The only real monopoly is the government and unfortunately it's growing by leaps and bounds.  >:(
Title: Re: MS openly declared war on linux (and open software)
Post by: FreewheelinFrank on January 01, 2010, 06:40:49 PM
Competition may remove the monopoly by microsoft.

US filed against MS because of monopoly.
Us and EU filed against Microsoft because of greed and because they knew they could get away with it.
The only real monopoly is the government and unfortunately it's growing by leaps and bounds.  >:(

The EU is not part of the US, so up yours.
Title: Re: MS openly declared war on linux (and open software)
Post by: bob3160 on January 01, 2010, 06:58:47 PM
Competition may remove the monopoly by microsoft.

US filed against MS because of monopoly.
Us and EU filed against Microsoft because of greed and because they knew they could get away with it.
The only real monopoly is the government and unfortunately it's growing by leaps and bounds.  >:(

The EU is not part of the US, so up yours.
Did you get up on the wrong side of the bed again Frank ??? Happy New Year :)
Title: Re: MS openly declared war on linux (and open software)
Post by: Chris Thomas on January 02, 2010, 08:09:32 AM
UBUNTU

KUBUNTU

LUBUNTU

XUBUNTU


The list seems growing. Linux is highly fragmented and there is no single tough competitor.

Can anyone tell me the difference between these?
Title: Re: MS openly declared war on linux (and open software)
Post by: .: L' arc :. on January 02, 2010, 08:39:11 AM
Ubuntu:
uses GNOME as its default GUI

Kubuntu:
uses KDE as desktop environment

Xubuntu:
uses Xfce as desktop environment

Lubuntu:
uses LXDE as desktop environment
Title: Re: MS openly declared war on linux (and open software)
Post by: OrangeCrate on January 02, 2010, 01:21:38 PM
UBUNTU

KUBUNTU

LUBUNTU

XUBUNTU


The list seems growing. Linux is highly fragmented and there is no single tough competitor.

Can anyone tell me the difference between these?

See here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Desktop_Linux

and here:

http://xwinman.org/

(a bit dated, but chock full of useful info...)
Title: Re: MS openly declared war on linux (and open software)
Post by: OrangeCrate on January 02, 2010, 02:37:03 PM
UBUNTU

KUBUNTU

LUBUNTU

XUBUNTU


The list seems growing. Linux is highly fragmented and there is no single tough competitor.

Can anyone tell me the difference between these?

In my previous post, I forgot to comment on the "competitor" issue.

All forms of *buntu, are just issues by Canonical Ltd, with different desktop environments. See here for additional info:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canonical_Ltd.

Sure, Linux is quite fragmented, but it's all about choice to us. We have a lot of options available that Windows and Mac users don't, and we really like the fact that we do. Here's a great site to learn about distribution choices available to Linux users:

http://distrowatch.com/

The majority of Linux users who cry about not being able to compete with Windows are recent converts to Linux, after being burnt by Windows. I guess hatred for all things Microsoft runs deep with those people, and they'll never be happy until Redmond, is a self illuminated parking lot.

But, most hardcore Linux users, couldn't care less about what Microsoft does. You see, Linux is simply not Windows, and we not only enjoy the differences, but revel in them. Here's a great read for anyone contemplating the switch to Linux:

http://linux.oneandoneis2.org/LNW.htm

There is a stiff learning curve to Linux adoption, but it's getting easier to convert all the time. You still do run into people who have an intense hatred for all things Linux, but generally, they're just people who are unwilling to fess up to the fact, that they're just not smarter than the operating system, and were beaten by it, when they tried it.

Linux users chuckle about those people, but really, and honestly, they really don't care one way or the other. Frankly, we like being a little different. We are open source, and we enjoy all of the choices. Windows and Apple users are content to live with whatever their closed source suppliers allow them to have. As Windows/Apple users, you do what makes you happy, and as Linux users, we'll do the same.

 :)
Title: Re: MS openly declared war on linux (and open software)
Post by: Chris Thomas on January 02, 2010, 02:42:48 PM
Hmm.....

One of the great drawbacks of Linux is that novice users have a very hard time with it.

Hope I am right or correct me.
Title: Re: MS openly declared war on linux (and open software)
Post by: OrangeCrate on January 02, 2010, 03:19:57 PM
Hmm.....

One of the great drawbacks of Linux is that novice users have a very hard time with it.

Hope I am right or correct me.

Some do, most don't. I think it has a lot to do with attitude. There is no customer service to call, the community is where you find answers to your questions. Google is definitely your friend as you tackle new things, and there are great tutorials available on most anything, if you just look for them. Here's a couple of examples of what I mean (Ubuntu related, but other distros have similar publications):

http://www.psychocats.net/ubuntu/index

http://ubuntuguide.org/wiki/Ubuntu:Jaunty

I would not suggest to anyone, to dump Windows to try/use Linux. Some of those Redmond haters I commented about earlier, insist that your choice is either to use Linux or Windows. Personally, I think that and is a more realistic option, and I always recommend to dual boot (either by partitioning, or by using Wubi or a virtual machine). A person my eventually go completely to Linux, but they certainly don't have to.

There is a learning curve, you will have to learn to use the terminal (at least for basic things), and you'll have to learn what's going on inside the box, rather than just mindlessly clicking on things, in a completely GUI environment.

However, the satisfaction you get from having pretty much complete control over what you're doing, is priceless, and is worth any pain you might experience during the learning process.

(BTW, I'm typing this from Debian Squeeze (testing), and you can read it, just as if I was using Windows. Cool, eh?  :))

The reason you hear a lot about Ubuntu (and Fedora), is that they're a bit easier to use and learn. Debian, Gentoo, and some others are not for the faint of heart, and though I was teasing you about using Debian to post this, I do not recommend that distro for beginners.

An old Linux joke...

Quote
Ubuntu is an ancient African word meaning 'can't install Debian'

(Mark Pilgrim)
Title: Re: MS openly declared war on linux (and open software)
Post by: Hermite15 on January 02, 2010, 03:42:35 PM
@ Crate:
 yeah, and there are those who've been using Linux in dual-boot during years...not exactly newbies on Linux hey  ;D and had a million times the opportunity to compare how things work in the two OS'es: Linux is a million light years behind Windows, if you don't see it get yourself a pair of glasses:
firewall (nice piece of software...shorewall etc...no configuration interface)
network configuration (have fun connecting a Linux PC to a Windows one) edit: + thousands and thousands of users having wifi not working or unstable.
file browsing...yeah, win 1.0 good old times...
graphics drivers behavior >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BSOD = black screen of death in Linux ...when changing the screen resolution can crash the X server
scanner and printer interfaces  ;D
software...thousands and thousands of crappy programs found in the repos...
hundreds of useless programs pre-installed
GNOME...that's the worse  ;)
bad updates (corrupted repos and bad signatures)
no standards (hey, *.exe!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!, know what I mean ??? ) ...welcome to the world of debians and rpms, enjoy!  :)
no serious drive encryption...people find they can't access their encrypted /home partition anymore after a new install.

ridiculous equivalents of device manager, where most stuff (modules) is in the kernel, and drivers are not updatable, nor controllable...where your web  cam is listed as a network adapter or a graphics card  ;D wanna hear more ???
power management disaster...
sleep mode and hibernation don't work for most users

OUTDATED SOFTWARE: people who don't know how to run Firefox from a mozilla tarball can wait two or three months before they get an update from the repos this is sooooooooooooo...cool  8)...ever spent half an hour getting all the needed dependencies for an extracted tarball to run  :o

Security and stability myth: Linux is more secure because it's not targeted (not enough users, not worth it), and not because of the way executables run, malware can break that. Stability: just the kernel is stable, Linux itself won't crash yeah, but apps will, often, and the X server will, so your freaking desktop will crash.

...one last thing: LINUX FONTS ...pathetic  ::) ....

 It's just a matter of honesty, and how good you are at testing operating system features. Wondering what you're doing on a Windows security software forum  ::)

 your only argument:
Quote
(BTW, I'm typing this from Debian Squeeze (testing), and you can read it, just as if I was using Windows. Cool, eh?  Smiley)
...that's all you got ???
Title: Re: MS openly declared war on linux (and open software)
Post by: Chris Thomas on January 02, 2010, 03:47:18 PM
@ Logos

Nicely said about the greatness of Windows compared with Linux

No offense to OrangeCrate
Title: Re: MS openly declared war on linux (and open software)
Post by: OrangeCrate on January 02, 2010, 03:57:01 PM
@ Crate:
<snip>

Wondering what you're doing on a Windows security software forum  ::)

<snip>


Your post is so full of inaccuracies, that's it's not worth even commenting on it, except for one item...

See post #14 in this thread:

Quote
Another thread here highlights my experience with a new computer that I purchased a year ago, that had Vista installed. Rather than erase it, I kept it around in a dual boot, and recently updated it to Windows 7 (which I like a lot, by the way). Frankly, I very seldom ever boot into Windows, but as long as I have it around, and since I still use Avast as one layer of my protection package, I periodically check in here to see what's going on. I've been a member around here since my XP dual boot days (Joining in 2005, I guess).

What, you don't even read previous posts?

(You're so funny.)

 :)

Title: Re: MS openly declared war on linux (and open software)
Post by: Hermite15 on January 02, 2010, 03:59:59 PM
and you're so ridiculous, you have no arguments whatsoever. I don't even think that you know Linux. You're the perfect newbie burning distro ISO's and switching, getting lost, and switching again...what you call testing  :D You have no idea of what I was talking about, you haven't got a freaking clue, this is funny yeah...

ps: you're not even able to tell about the good things in Linux, which I could easily btw  ;)
Title: Re: MS openly declared war on linux (and open software)
Post by: Shiw Liang on January 02, 2010, 04:07:59 PM
Ubuntu:
uses GNOME as its default GUI

Kubuntu:
uses KDE as desktop environment

Xubuntu:
uses Xfce as desktop environment

Lubuntu:
uses LXDE as desktop environment
I've only tried Ubuntu and Kubuntu in my old pc!
I can say that Ubuntu don't have desktop crash but kubuntu has time to time.
Ubuntu easier to use that kubuntu.
More people with Ubuntu for linux but still far from beating Microsoft because more or over 99% people are using Microsoft Operating system and Microsoft is easier to use and have more programs from it.
Title: Re: MS openly declared war on linux (and open software)
Post by: OrangeCrate on January 02, 2010, 04:23:56 PM
and you're so ridiculous, you have no arguments whatsoever. I don't even think that you know Linux. You're the perfect newbie burning distro ISO's and switching, getting lost, and switching again...what you call testing :D You have no idea of what I was talking about, you haven't got a freaking clue, this is funny yeah...

ps: you're not even able to tell about the good things in Linux, which I could easily btw  ;)

I'm not testing anything. That's what the Squeeze version of Debian is named...

Quote
Debian “squeeze” Release Information

The code name for the next major Debian release after lenny is "squeeze". This release started as a copy of lenny, and is currently in a state called "testing".

http://www.debian.org/releases/testing/

Just one more of the inaccuracies in your posts. As I said, you're funny.

And hey, if the shoe fits...

From post #26:

Quote
You still do run into people who have an intense hatred for all things Linux, but generally, they're just people who are unwilling to fess up to the fact, that they're just not smarter than the operating system, and were beaten by it, when they tried it.

 :)

<yawn>

I've got something else to do, see ya.



Title: Re: MS openly declared war on linux (and open software)
Post by: Go Pack Go on January 02, 2010, 04:26:54 PM
Ubuntu:
uses GNOME as its default GUI

Kubuntu:
uses KDE as desktop environment

Xubuntu:
uses Xfce as desktop environment

Lubuntu:
uses LXDE as desktop environment
I've only tried Ubuntu and Kubuntu in my old pc!
I can say that Ubuntu don't have desktop crash but kubuntu has time to time.
Ubuntu easier to use that kubuntu.
More people with Ubuntu for linux but still far from beating Microsoft because more or over 99% people are using Microsoft Operating system and Microsoft is easier to use and have more programs from it.

It's actually more like 90%.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usage_share_of_operating_systems (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usage_share_of_operating_systems)
Title: Re: MS openly declared war on linux (and open software)
Post by: Hermite15 on January 02, 2010, 04:48:01 PM
Crate, you're a spammer and a troll, your posts are empty, your references non-existent, but yeah, go waste your time somewhere else, see ya  ;)
Title: Re: MS openly declared war on linux (and open software)
Post by: FreewheelinFrank on January 02, 2010, 06:06:26 PM
Crate, you're a spammer and a troll, your posts are empty, your references non-existent, but yeah, go waste your time somewhere else, see ya  ;)

There's one post here that looks like a troll, and that's #29.  ::)
Title: Re: MS openly declared war on linux (and open software)
Post by: Hermite15 on January 02, 2010, 06:13:20 PM
Crate, you're a spammer and a troll, your posts are empty, your references non-existent, but yeah, go waste your time somewhere else, see ya  ;)

There's one post here that looks like a troll, and that's #29.  ::)

oh yeah, got as many arguments as Crate's against mines wheelin'frank ? another Linux specialist  ;D, yes? no? now come on quote my troll post (#29 remember) and fight my arguments one by one, now come on  ::)
Title: Re: MS openly declared war on linux (and open software)
Post by: FreewheelinFrank on January 02, 2010, 07:11:25 PM
Crate, you're a spammer and a troll, your posts are empty, your references non-existent, but yeah, go waste your time somewhere else, see ya  ;)

There's one post here that looks like a troll, and that's #29.  ::)

oh yeah, got as many arguments as Crate's against mines wheelin'frank ? another Linux specialist  ;D, yes? no? now come on quote my troll post (#29 remember) and fight my arguments one by one, now come on  ::)

Not biting.
Title: Re: MS openly declared war on linux (and open software)
Post by: YoKenny on January 02, 2010, 07:29:03 PM
Crate, you're a spammer and a troll, your posts are empty, your references non-existent, but yeah, go waste your time somewhere else, see ya  ;)

There's one post here that looks like a troll, and that's #29.  ::)

oh yeah, got as many arguments as Crate's against mines wheelin'frank ? another Linux specialist  ;D, yes? no? now come on quote my troll post (#29 remember) and fight my arguments one by one, now come on  ::)

Not biting.


No need for the Hundred Years' War to start again.  ;)
Title: Re: MS openly declared war on linux (and open software)
Post by: bob3160 on January 02, 2010, 11:32:34 PM
Crate, you're a spammer and a troll, your posts are empty, your references non-existent, but yeah, go waste your time somewhere else, see ya  ;)

There's one post here that looks like a troll, and that's #29.  ::)

oh yeah, got as many arguments as Crate's against mines wheelin'frank ? another Linux specialist  ;D, yes? no? now come on quote my troll post (#29 remember) and fight my arguments one by one, now come on  ::)
Please stop trying to be "Top Dog" all the time.
There are many other members on this forum who are just as knowledgeable as you. (Some might even be smarter... :) ) ( NO, not me.  :-X )
Title: Re: MS openly declared war on linux (and open software)
Post by: Hermite15 on January 02, 2010, 11:45:27 PM


Please stop trying to be "Top Dog" all the time.
There are many other members on this forum who are just as knowledgeable as you. (Some might even be smarter... :) ) ( NO, not me.  :-X )
(some... ??? I doubt it, and no, not you)
would you mind me asking you to stop being the "top sheep" here...or the shepherd as you wish, it's not a church here, it's a web forum

what would you suggest ? someone holding a press conference in this thread, making wrong and misleading statements with arrogance (about Linux in this particular case ) etc...and I should say: "hello, excuse me sir, but may I interrupt you and give my opinion, oh if you don't mind Sir, I know that you're lying Sir but your opinion (ie your lies) is quite respectable Sir, excuse me again Sir, keep spreading the bullshit  ;D

 Well sorry Bob that's not me  8) and I'll keep saying what I think. pic below is just for fun  ;)

(http://www.davestechsupport.com/blog/images/bobsbook.png)
Title: Re: MS openly declared war on linux (and open software)
Post by: bob3160 on January 02, 2010, 11:49:16 PM
Say what you think but give others credit for also having some knowledge.
Especially those that have been here quite a while even if they don't post as much as some of us.  :)
Title: Re: MS openly declared war on linux (and open software)
Post by: Hermite15 on January 03, 2010, 12:03:53 AM
Say what you think but give others credit for also having some knowledge.
Especially those that have been here quite a while even if they don't post as much as some of us.  :)
OK let's just say that people like Polonus, Pondus, Essexboy....these are some of the guys I respect here, nothing to do with their post count or how long ago they registered. I respect them and acknowledge their skills. And why do I do that? because it's relevant. What are the other cases where I don't do that? when it's not relevant. Don't make a caricature out of me Bob, I behave differently depending on who I'm talking to, and yeah, this forum mirrors the "outer" world, unsurprisingly  ;)

ps: hmm..on a side note, would you mind reading the source of all this flaming here, and give your opinion ?
http://forum.avast.com/index.php?topic=52914.msg448993#msg448993
Title: Re: MS openly declared war on linux (and open software)
Post by: cakedoer2 on January 03, 2010, 12:08:37 AM
CakeDoer joins the argument!
CakeDoer used reply button!
It's not so effective...

Okay guys. The person who said Linux based OSs are hard to use is wrong. I had Ubuntu for several weeks and to be honest, it surprised me. I was expecting something much dumber than that.

Updating - well, that's the easiest thing so far. When you install the OS everything gets automatically updated, zero errors. My Wi-Fi modem started working immediately, I didn't even have to set it up. Driver updates are also relatively easy, but often need rebooting (nothing new, guys). Customising is also easy, but it is definately harder than in Windows. Program support, well, that's a minus too. But man, you don't need an antivirus, guys! Like on those Macs. Yeah, those shiny things.

Windows 7 - that's what I am comparing Ubuntu 9 with. Updating also works good. It is WAY more customisable, the desktop effects are not so good compared to Ubuntu, though. Even though 7 is all shiny and stuff, that wacky window moving in Ubuntu made me smile. It is way more usable but not that stable compared to Ubuntu. Things can easily crash (lol, Mac commercials). However, most of the stuff is fixed on your shiny Windows 7, but browsing the net is hell with and can be a lot more frustrating.

So in the end, dual boot 7 with Ubuntu for backup purposes, guys! Linux is free, so no harm checking it out. The only thing that's really bad is that uninstalling Ubuntu can be... frustrating. I solved this case with a complete system format, though.
Title: Re: MS openly declared war on linux (and open software)
Post by: Hermite15 on January 03, 2010, 12:22:05 AM
I prefer this post; been dual-booting with PCLinuxOS and then Mandriva... will probably reinstall Mandriva one of these days. Yeah, I'm a KDE freak  ;D although many (still a minority) do run Gnome on Mandriva. 3D desktops are indeed amazing...Gnome Shell will be out soon, when Gnome 3 is out in a few months, let's see if it lives up to its ambitions and if Gnome becomes an acceptable deskkop  ;) Got the feeling that Gnome is finally changing. Anyway, I'll probably be back in KDE 4.3 very soon...good news for those who don't like me very much here, I won't post very often on avast forums when I'm in Linux  ;D ...just got to solve a couple of things first...issues I got in Seven when dual-booting...for unknown reasons..issues I didn't have with XP+Linux. You know, I like Linux very much (this is not sarcastic), but I'm not blind.
edit:
Quote
The only thing that's really bad is that uninstalling Ubuntu can be... frustrating. I solved this case with a complete system format, though
.
you didn't need to do that, why ? I mean there are ways to solve bootloader issues...if that was your issue...first thing to keep in mind to avoid future disasters is to know exactly what you want and how you want it before installing Linux in dual-boot, and for Christ's sake avoid letting the partition manager decide for you at setup time  ;)
Title: Re: MS openly declared war on linux (and open software)
Post by: polonus on January 03, 2010, 12:27:33 AM
Hi forum friends,

I could have known where this thread would go when I started this one... Well, sometimes one cannot go round a link about MS versus linux or open software versus closed software. Yes, my good forum friends, and as long as we can keep emotions out of the debate, it is all-right - we learn all the way, and how!

 I don't mind having the litany read about the one or the other platform, the pro's and cons,  I do not mind I was no one's fanboy- never, and I am open-minded,

I think I had a lot of profit  from open software contributions, as there are - firekeeper, snort, analyzing coding, script reversal, script analysis - these issues are the very gifts the open software community brought us and we have to be ever grateful - they taught me, you, us a lot.

 And as for MS, I am critical but never a MS basher and I for one like to know more about their dll's and their hooks and API's to  be better protected about what malcreants can do there...
.
Why they are taking the dll help file for developers off coming February, is beyond me  If they only taught the common user to tweak their OS for security, drop full admin rights as per application (drop rights via specific system proggies), explain their trust model etc. etc. we would have far, far less malware in the world. If a NoScript extension like that of good magician (former hacker) Giorgio Maone would find its way to every browser on whatever platform and AdBlocking came available for those that aren't opening spam because they never get mailed - it would be another world. Two sides of the coin, flip it and look at them unbiased if you can...

polonus
Title: Re: MS openly declared war on linux (and open software)
Post by: OrangeCrate on January 03, 2010, 12:34:12 AM

<snip>

...I'll keep saying what I think...

<snip>


One of our more colorful characters of the old west was Judge Roy Bean. If you're not familiar with who he was, here's a brief bio...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roy_Bean

As he was carrying out the sentence on a rather vocal prisoner, he was reported to said to the man:

Quote
Son, when you're swinging in the wind, try not to talk. It just tightens the noose.

We had a stimulating conversation, and I enjoyed it. But frankly, you're cooked.

It's time to move on to some other topic...

Bubye.
Title: Re: MS openly declared war on linux (and open software)
Post by: Hermite15 on January 03, 2010, 12:42:12 AM
Quote
But frankly, you're cooked
 ::)
I had the feeling that it was too easy to beat you. The lack of content of your posts was not stimulating but just a tiny bit upsetting to say the least. Don't know what you've been smoking lately...Linux is a serious subject  ;)
Title: Re: MS openly declared war on linux (and open software)
Post by: bob3160 on January 03, 2010, 01:50:09 AM
Say what you think but give others credit for also having some knowledge.
Especially those that have been here quite a while even if they don't post as much as some of us.  :)
OK let's just say that people like Polonus, Pondus, Essexboy....these are some of the guys I respect here, nothing to do with their post count or how long ago they registered. I respect them and acknowledge their skills. And why do I do that? because it's relevant. What are the other cases where I don't do that? when it's not relevant. Don't make a caricature out of me Bob, I behave differently depending on who I'm talking to, and yeah, this forum mirrors the "outer" world, unsurprisingly  ;)

ps: hmm..on a side note, would you mind reading the source of all this flaming here, and give your opinion ?
http://forum.avast.com/index.php?topic=52914.msg448993#msg448993
I make (in this case made) my comment after reading all of this thread up to the point where I made my comment.
I therefore also read the post re're link referred to.  :)
Title: Re: MS openly declared war on linux (and open software)
Post by: Shiw Liang on January 03, 2010, 05:33:27 AM
Me I think that it is good to have a variety of choice to people :)
They can choose by themselves what they think suits them the best and that they can use it.
Both Microsoft and Ubuntu are made easy but if there is more people in a product it will be developed better right?

Like avast who has about 100 millions users^^

But Windows or Linux I think it is up to the person's choice.

No offence the most possible :-\,
Shiw Liang
Title: Re: MS openly declared war on linux (and open software)
Post by: Cahya Legawa on January 03, 2010, 05:51:29 AM
I have my Vista on my laptop, and dual-boot with OpenSuSE 11.2 Gnome...

My personal opinions - since I'm a newbie - I prefer a lot to spend my time with this Linux :)

For simple task like typing, emailing, browsing, googling, chating, photo editing including blogging, I can do all those with Linux very easy. Since I'm a student, I do not need more than simple task daily, and Linux is enough for that.

I may say Windows (Vista) can do it too - but still I like Linux much :)
Title: Re: MS openly declared war on linux (and open software)
Post by: YoKenny on January 03, 2010, 07:31:10 AM
Crate, you're a spammer and a troll, your posts are empty, your references non-existent, but yeah, go waste your time somewhere else, see ya  ;)

There's one post here that looks like a troll, and that's #29.  ::)

oh yeah, got as many arguments as Crate's against mines wheelin'frank ? another Linux specialist  ;D, yes? no? now come on quote my troll post (#29 remember) and fight my arguments one by one, now come on  ::)
Please stop trying to be "Top Dog" all the time.
There are many other members on this forum who are just as knowledgeable as you. (Some might even be smarter... :) ) ( NO, not me.  :-X )

'nuf said.

@ OrangeCrate
Quote
It's time to move on to some other topic...

I agree.

See:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1fuDDqU6n4o
Title: Re: MS openly declared war on linux (and open software)
Post by: Vlk on January 03, 2010, 09:16:37 AM
Seems that some people feel the necessity to fight even during the holiday season... :-\

Oh well, thread closed.