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Other => General Topics => Topic started by: Hermite15 on January 22, 2010, 10:31:39 PM
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http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2358335,00.asp
http://www.youtube.com/html5
hope this hasn't been posted already ;)
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Unfortunately, the html5 video player doesn't work in firefox :(
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Unfortunately, the html5 video player doesn't work in firefox :(
works fine in Chrome ;)
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Hi Logos,
It works well in Chrome, also Vimeo now launched it: http://vimeo.com/blog:268
What downloader to use to save the video's on my comp as a media .flv file or is this being brought in to make downloading video files somewhat harder?
I now use a special add-on for Firefox.
http://javimoya.com/blog/youtube_en.php
Other ways: http://mashable.com/2007/05/05/download-youtube-video/
The old way was to simply put the word kiss in front of the YouTube url, does that still work with these video's as well?
Eleven other ways to do it:
http://www.tvjoost.nl/12-manieren-om-videos-van-youtube-google-video-en-andere-videosites-te-downloaden
polonus
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Hi Logos,
It works well in Chrome, also Vimeo now launched it: http://vimeo.com/blog:268
What downloader to use to save the video's on my comp as a media .flv file or is this being brought in to make downloading video files somewhat harder?
I now use a special add-on for Firefox.
http://javimoya.com/blog/youtube_en.php
The old way was to simply put the word kiss in front of the YouTube url, does that still work with these video's as well?
Eleven other ways to do it:
http://www.tvjoost.nl/12-manieren-om-videos-van-youtube-google-video-en-andere-videosites-te-downloaden
polonus
don't know...the thing is I don't know how to download videos from Chrome. I do it sometimes in Firefox (via flashgot) only and Firefox as you know doesn't support yet that HTML5 youtube player...although I thought FF 3.6 had already some HTML5 abilities, so I cannot test that at all. the other thing is that according to an article I read a while ago, when the whole discussion about HTML5 started, they said the downloading of videos with HTML 5 would still be easier and more undetectable than ever.
So to find out we either need an appropriate extension in Chrome (may be there's already one), or wait until HTML5 is fully supported in Firefox.
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Unfortunately, the html5 video player doesn't work in firefox :(
works fine in Chrome ;)
Here's one you might want to look at: :)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i_7c1L-qKWM (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i_7c1L-qKWM)
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Unfortunately, the html5 video player doesn't work in firefox :(
works fine in Chrome ;)
Here's one you might want to look at: :)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i_7c1L-qKWM (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i_7c1L-qKWM)
nice video, I'm watching it in Chrome now (via HTML5), thanks for that link Bob ;)
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don't know what's going on exactly with Firefox 3.6, it's the second time today I read in french articles that 3.6 supports HTML5, and in full screen mode. I think (gotta check that, not sure) the release notes mention that too. So why the hell is Firefox not supported by that YouTube HTML5 player ???
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don't know what's going on exactly with Firefox 3.6, it's the second time today I read in french articles that 3.6 supports HTML5, and in full screen mode. I think (gotta check that, not sure) the release notes mention that too. So why the hell is Firefox not supported by that YouTube HTML5 player ???
Your welcome Logos. :)
Maybe because You Tube and Chrome have something in common which Firefox obviously does not ??? ;D
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don't know what's going on exactly with Firefox 3.6, it's the second time today I read in french articles that 3.6 supports HTML5, and in full screen mode. I think (gotta check that, not sure) the release notes mention that too. So why the hell is Firefox not supported by that YouTube HTML5 player ???
Your welcome Logos. :)
Maybe because You Tube and Chrome have something in common which Firefox obviously does not ??? ;D
don't know if you were joking but it's either something like that, technical, or Google purposely restricted the reading of HTML5 videos in YouTube to Chrome...Safari should work too, and IE with Chrome frame.
Right now we support browsers that support both the tag in HTML5 and the h.264 video codec. These include:
* Google Chrome
* Apple Safari (version 4+)
* Microsoft Internet Explorer with Chrome Frame installed
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Although Firefox 3.5, 3.6, etc supports the html 5 video tag the browser doesn't support the H.264 codec used by Youtube and now vimeo.
Firefox 3.6 supports html5, but not the codec (patents, licensing problems, closed source world) that is necessary and being used by Google/Youtube.
Firefox is not supported by Youtube HTML 5 because of PATENTS AND LICENSING PROBLEMS
Check this bug
https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=495340
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Although Firefox 3.5, 3.6, etc supports the html 5 video tag the browser doesn't support the H.264 codec used by Youtube and now vimeo.
Firefox 3.6 supports html5, but not the codec (patents, licensing problems, closed source world) that is necessary and being used by Google/Youtube.
Firefox is not supported by Youtube HTML 5 because of PATENTS AND LICENSING PROBLEMS
Check this bug
https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=495340
thanks for the link to that bug report. Anyway, I've been able to play streaming H.264 videos in Firefox (Dailymotion). Codec is integrated to flashplayer (?) : http://blogs.adobe.com/accessibility/2007/12/new_flash_player_with_msaa_on.html
...or may be Firefox is using OSS codec to read that ??? (Ogg Theora)
article here seems to confirm that Firefox doesn't support h.264: http://www.infoq.com/news/2010/01/youtube-html5 but again, how come I can read Dailymotion videos in Firefox that all run the h.264 codec...
interesting:
* Apple refuses to implement Ogg Theora in Quicktime by default (as used by Safari), citing lack of hardware support and an uncertain patent landscape.
* Google has implemented H.264 and Ogg Theora in Chrome, but cannot provide the H.264 codec license to third-party distributors of Chromium, and have indicated a belief that Ogg Theora's quality-per-bit is not yet suitable for the volume handled by YouTube.
* Opera refuses to implement H.264, citing the obscene cost of the relevant patent licenses.
* Mozilla refuses to implement H.264, as they would not be able to obtain a license that covers their downstream distributors.
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Hi Logos,
I am just anxious to hear from you what is the relation of HTML5 and embedding and downloading. I saw postings of webmaster questioning how they could restrict the users to only viewing and to prevent embedding and linking (Flash is no longer used)? I know there are parties that want this restriction applied generally and prohibit embedding and downloading alltogether (we are in the days of transition to more restrictive user policies because of commercial interests- where they also risk to shoot themselves in the foot by alieneating the user even further, as some also would like to restrict linking, blogging etc. etc.. I have come upon a site recently where as a precaution matter (because of rights of third parties) the e-book download was only in text format and the pictures were all greyed out (book published in the thirties of the previous century). The HTML5-6 quality might be better but the user is not the first priority and the central axis around which it all evolves. Here is one hick-up:
There is no single combination of containers and codecs that works in all HTML5 browsers.
To make your video watchable across all of these devices and platforms, you’re going to have to encode your video more than once.
Just think about the implications for the placements of browsers of the above, the common user would prefer that browser that would display all conveniently, and that browser is .........!
re: http://diveintohtml5.org/video.html (very instructive and confusing at the same moment)
polonus
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Hi Polonus,
look the thing is as you know that it's not strictly legal to download videos when there's not an explicit link to do so, meaning that the author/owner prefers that his work would be streamed only. So, when it's doable it's doable, via any FF extension or else, and when it's not it's not and I won't complain about it. Downloading videos on the internet is a technical possibility, not a right ;) You're watching what's been put online by someone who made a video, and the sharing conditions are up to this someone in the end. If HTML5 became a further restriction I don't really care, but I doubt it. HTML5 for a start shouldn't allow all the tracking and privacy concerns there has always been with Adobe/Macromedia flash player. Once you've cleared your private data in Firefox, there won't be anything left when using HTML5. Currently you still have to take care of the macromedia folder in your user profile, so that's already a plus for HTML5... seriously, downloading will always be possible, you're getting the streaming data, nothing can prevent you from caching it and save it to disk what ever the format is. MediaPlayer can read anything, ON2...FLV...and H264... ;) That said embedding might be prevented, and that wouldn't be a good idea, for bloggers...or any other site btw.
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@ Logos
I found this interesting link
http://blog.dailymotion.com/2009/05/27/watch-videowithout-flash/
This is a quote from the article
"The new encoding formats we’re using are Ogg, Theora + Vorbis. They’re not yet as good as other common codecs such as H264, ON2 VP6, but they comprise an open format that is not patented, is free to use, and is supported by the Mozilla foundation (http://blog.wikimedia.org/2009/01/26/mozilla-and-wikimedia-join-forces-to-support-open-video/). So don’t worry - it’s going to improve soon. We have a few tricks to improve the quality, but for the moment re-encoding 300,000 videos in this format forced us to compromise."
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Does HTML 5 help people with low speed internet? I think so
I am also pleased with the Youtube Feather mode.
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@ Logos
I found this interesting link
http://blog.dailymotion.com/2009/05/27/watch-videowithout-flash/
This is a quote from the article
"The new encoding formats we’re using are Ogg, Theora + Vorbis. They’re not yet as good as other common codecs such as H264, ON2 VP6, but they comprise an open format that is not patented, is free to use, and is supported by the Mozilla foundation (http://blog.wikimedia.org/2009/01/26/mozilla-and-wikimedia-join-forces-to-support-open-video/). So don’t worry - it’s going to improve soon. We have a few tricks to improve the quality, but for the moment re-encoding 300,000 videos in this format forced us to compromise."
OK thanks, what's weird when I attempt to download a video from Dailymotion is that is "offers" an H264/MP4 file...but indeed the playing in FF involves flashplayer with whatever codec they want, or HTML5 with as said Ogg/Theora.
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Does HTML 5 help people with low speed internet? I think so
I am also pleased with the Youtube Feather mode.
this I don't know...could be
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Hi ChrisThomas and Logos,
This is also interesting to read. Girorgi Maone mentions about NoScript not blocking- the UI glitch for the <video>-tag blocker (N.B. and that could be unwanted behavior in the case of malcode:They've put an absolutely positioned invisible div (of CSS class video_overlay) right over the movie (and the placeholder), preventing any click from reaching it. [bold by me]
I'm trying to work around, but I'm not sure if it's worth the effort.
Not <VIDEO> element specific, anyway, even though this is probably an artifact of the way some web authors are going to implement contextual menus over <VIDEO> elements in HTML5.
Then later he states:Greatly mitigated in latest development build 1.9.5.7 Giorgio Maone -- Hackademix
And that is what I like, no obscurities, not hiding the obvious in plain site....that is why standards is for loosers....When I click the download buttons inside a WinCustomize dialog, Firefox is handling the downloads ... - Adds a Full Screen option to the context menu for HTML5 videos....
Another question for which I did not get an answer to here is what if GoogleChrome for watching video's would become the standard, wouldn't that not also mean an enormous boost for that particular browser? Aren't we realizing now that Fx is fighting a battle to keep up with developments and that IE is forced to encapsulate GoogleChrome to be part of it. All these are very elaborate moves in the browser positioning chess-game (sorry video-game). I think the threads here are very informative in this respect as they give the dry and dirty facts on this...
polonus
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Another question for which I did not get an answer to here is what if GoogleChrome for watching video's would become the standard, wouldn't that not also mean an enormous boost for that particular browser?
that's just what they're looking for obviously...but there will be reactions, counter-strikes ;D to that I'm sure (OSS...already on the way as mentioned above) ... the biggest issue there is that Mozilla is not economically in a very comfortable position, they depend at 80% on Google (ie 80% of Mozilla income comes from Google >>> default home page after a freshly installed Firefox )
The big losers here will be Adobe with Flash and MS with Silverlight.
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It's true that users will have less control on the given web sites with Html5 but, isn't this a feature of WebKit, which is the open source part of Safari and/or Chrome rather than being exclusively to Google Chrome? Also Ogg Vorbis/Theora formats are known to be less restrictive in terms of IP... I don't deny the existence of browser/search engine war but how logical is it to see everything under such context? ???
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It's true that users will have less control on the given web sites with Html5 but, isn't this a feature of WebKit, which is the open source part of Safari and/or Chrome rather than being exclusively to Google Chrome? Also Ogg Vorbis/Theora formats are known to be less restrictive in terms of IP... I don't deny the existence of browser/search engine war but how logical is it to see everything under such context? ???
OK users will lose some control only because the web site owners will have more control over their content with HTML5...I have no problem with that...better than the current 99% monopoly of adobe flash player on the Internet ;D .. this said any new major internet feature is a new occasion to stimulate the browser's war, that's always expected.
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Hi Logos,
Here is a description of an extension and a greasemonkeyscript to bring HTML5 to Firefox:
http://www.0xdeadbeef.com/weblog/2009/11/bringing-theora-to-youtube-the-hard-way/
Raedy for you YouTube Theora transcode and it works like this: it pulls down the video, uses Firefogg to transcode it, and then stuffs it back into the browser via a private URL. It’s slow because it has to pull + encode the entire video, but it works surprisingly well for something that is as hacky as it is,
polonus
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Hi Polonus, thanks for the info ;)
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Hi Logos,
If you knew Polonus, you would know that he would not rest until he found a nice solution to convert the GoogleChrome YouTube HTML5 video format to be played on my VLC Media player as a downloaded flv file. None of the proposed services could do it, but one. I went to http://www.mediaconverter.org/
The process takes some time but one could open another tab and do something else in the mean time.
It is easy give in the video link, choose the format to convert to and then when it shows download download an play with VLC. Normally a video download of a 6 minutes video takes 6 MB, here the download is 27 MB for a converted file. Somewhere there has to be done something with compression.
If you are on broadband, could be done, real easy. As for other countries I do not know but the EULA is for the U.K. where use of the services are legit, allthough I fear that it is not for DavidR with his dial-up connection,
polonus
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congrats, good find ;) ... gotta be careful with this sort of things now in France, heard of HADOPI ? ;D
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Hi Logos,
Of course one should always download legitimatly ;) In the Netherlands we also have entered this debate
and the government will come with a proposal in the coming three years to prohibit downloading from evident illegal sources, also make rules for commercial parties not to make money from illegal activities - but only copyrighted work can be protected in this way and how "old media" should be transformed to "new media" ways has not yet materialized. The download restrictions are meant here for commercial parties and are not meant to harass the individual user, well that is the Dutch point of view as it was presented,
polonus
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and that's exactly the issue we have in France with the new laws, they're more meant at harassing individuals then to protect the authors...
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Some new additions from todays snowfall:
http://www.youtube.com/bob3160 (http://www.youtube.com/bob3160)
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@ Logos and Polonus
Doesn't this work?
http://keepvid.com/
Download and save videos directly from Youtube, Google, Metacafe, Putfile and more. Simply copy and paste.
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@ Logos and Polonus
Doesn't this work?
http://keepvid.com/
Download and save videos directly from Youtube, Google, Metacafe, Putfile and more. Simply copy and paste.
I had have tried that in the past before I realized there was something better^^
Keepvid does the job done but not exactly as said...sometimes it doesnt download, no download links appear..
@Topic
Is HTML5 video player the new player Youtube has?
The new look?
Thanks!
-AnimeLover^^
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@ Logos and Polonus
Doesn't this work?
http://keepvid.com/
Download and save videos directly from Youtube, Google, Metacafe, Putfile and more. Simply copy and paste.
no, the issue there is not to download videos the way tens of utilities can do it, when flash player is used, and you get a FLV very easily out of it, but how to do it when the HTML5 tag is used instead.
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This is an interesting doubt that I also have...
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@Topic
Is HTML5 video player the new player Youtube has?
The new look?
Thanks!
there's just a new experimental player for YouTube, only usable in Chrome, Safari, and IE+Chrome Frame plugin, and this player supports HTML5. But the official YouTube player is still for now and for a while Adobe Flash Player. Flash has ruled for ages now, don't know how long still...
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Hi Logos.
Introduction to HTML5: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=siOHh0uzcuY
Here is a HTML5 video with the possibility to download as MP4 for iPod/PSP:
http://video.google.nl/videoplay?docid=6754476230600345723&ei=lHNcS52AAcyP-Abb3JTPCA&q=when+the+levee+breaks&hl=nl&view=3#
Open link in a recent GoogleChrome version then play it on VLC as MP4....
polonus
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Hi Polonus,
yeah I just watched that. Funny, runs perfectly in Chrome (still using flash player...I guess you need to go through the HTML5 beta page first to avoid that), and video marked as unavailable in Firefox ??? btw MP4 has been offered for a while when downloading from YouTube and FlashPlayer is running...choice is between FLV and MP4 (in HD, well what they call HD) where obviously MP4 is the royal way to avoid Flash completely ;D
edit: can't start it anymore in Chrome either now, and that wasn't a YouTube video anyway. So how did you manage to play it in HTML5, ie without Flash ?
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Hi Logos,
That is exactly what I meant, and it proofs my point, says: The video is currently not available, try later.
And that is the hazard of embedding a link or reloading because the video player may be there and the link but video may be not available, worse scenario the video may never be available or uploaded again. I have it because I have downloaded the MP4 -36.1 MB of it. The same problems here is with searching, because the Internet is like an ever changing ocean, so you may cast your nets never to catch that fish again,
polonus
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Hi Logos,
That is exactly what I meant, and it proofs my point, says: The video is currently not available, try later.
And that is the hazard of embedding a link or reloading because the video player may be there and the link but video may be not available, worse scenario the video may never be available or uploaded again. I have it because I have downloaded the MP4 -36.1 MB of it. The same problems here is with searching, because the Internet is like an ever changing ocean, so you may cast your nets never to catch that fish again,
polonus
yeah but it's never been available in Firefox, while I have actually watched it in Chrome and it's not available anymore in Chrome now...OK but why was it never available in Firefox? This video uses Flash, no HTML 5 to be seen...
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Polonus, you mind telling me why and how you called it an HTML5 video ??? thanks.
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While Opera isn't a "suported browser", it works great with YouTube HTML5 Video Player. 8)
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Hi malware fighters,
It is also good to know what is the controversy in the background between Mozilla and the other parties about: http://shaver.off.net/diary/2010/01/23/html5-video-and-codecs/
This is what plays and we are about to make the same mistakes as with Flash, IE etc. etc.
Dirac is also free of patents, functions equally or in some ways better than H.264 does.
It is being used in the broadcast-scene under the VC-codec.
Why Fx and Google are having problems about the implementation when a solution is already there?
And also theora is a solution to be implemented.
h.264 and Dirac weigh rather heavy as codecs, one should have quite some CPU to run it.
Dirac runs under GPU and the Schrodinger impelementation, is the thing for CPU platforms,
and quality wise Theora is no rival for Dirac, also because it is free of patents.
Dirac will "blow" Theora away...
Open source is not bad, but here it all is about licence-fees, and who pays these...
and these fees, 5 million $ on an annual basis,
are being paid for their users by Microsoft, Google and especially Apple in this case.
Like PNG and JPEG for pictures, there are aslo free solutions for video,
but now users, developers and content-makers alike are forced to pay for such a basic implementation,
So Theora and Dirac to be used in browsers, and if they do not support these,
use the well-known Java-player. Simple and transparent.
Who has the bigger problem here MPEG-LA or Mozilla.
Will they offer Mozilla a free licence to maintain their monopoly position.
But to make MS use Theora 1.1. for video is a difficult tasks for
firms like MS, Opera and Apple alike, all with their fear of patents,
won't switch to open standards.
But there is something quite different here, one could choose the
closed format to create a monopoly.
x264 namely is a GPL code build of exactly the same H.264 codec.
But H.264 is patent-encumbered and cannot be used because it
does not meet the DSFG and therefore cannot be included in
Debian. x264 is completely free and open,
but another problem here could be that technology used there has related patents.
Then the HTML 5 spec could have solved this with the Video tag
properties for an opt-in download for a codec.
But that is not for us, the security aware, because it would mean a royal road in for malware....
So Mozilla does not agree with the video-standard choice of the
other major players, and they could have had a good reason for that,
Logos and other so enthusiastically relate here the launch of this,
but are they aware of the implications, and do they really think
they would be as enthusiastic as this means the same monopoly only for another holder?
and the current fee exemption for free-to-the-viewer internet delivery is only in effect until the end of 2010
polonus
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Unfortunately, the html5 video player doesn't work in firefox :(
works fine in Chrome ;)
Here's one you might want to look at: :)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i_7c1L-qKWM (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i_7c1L-qKWM)
Just love this Bob. How could I have missed it first time round? I skimmed this thread and bookmarked it to come back to when I have time to read through the many links. For now though I download the video using YouTube MP3 downloader to WMV/Zune/Pocket PC (*.wmv). YouTube only with this downloader. From there I go Leawo or Format Factory if I need to play with file extensions, and PowerISO seems to sort the bunch well enough for me if I need to burn some hard copy (for my own use).
HTML 5 I need to learn about so thanks for introductory links Polonus. And for great info on running state Logos.
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Hi mkis,
I think you sure would love to have this proggie on a USB stick. GSpot Codec Information Appliance(tm)
by Steven Greenberg. Common problems with AVI files are caused by the required codec. Here we show you which codec's are being used, using GSpot.
Say you have an AVI file but it doesn't play on your PC ... in that case we need to know which codec(s) are required for playback. But how do we find out?
In another situation, you tried to transcode (convert) an AVI file to another format, but for example audio isn't there in the end result. GSpot can tell you which codec is needed or used ...
GSpot can help us with this ... it completely analyses your AVI file and gives you an overview of all relevant information.
Download from here:
http://www.weethet.nl/english/download.php
or here:
http://www.headbands.com/gspot/
Enjoy, my friend,
Damian
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Yes I would love to have it so have downloaded to my usb.
Now find some time to run a few tests and in the meantime I can sort out a list of files to work with. I did have a bunch of video (.avi) captured from TV stream and no sound came through despite the audio device appearably being set correctly. Unfortunately I deleted these files. No problem to start recording TV stream again now I have additional resources at hand..
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Hi mkis,
The vid-people only see the benefits of using this h.264 codec. Particularly because of the YouTube and Vimeo support and came out as a standard from mounting proggies like FCP or as an easy HD-webconversion.
Even the open source converters seldomly use Ogg Theora. They haven't been spotted yet. Far from it, Theora is not supported on a broad scale. Not the thing to do to now to make these open codecs at this moment in time. Sadly, but factual,
polonus
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I'm a little bit lost amongst this lot
but currently on Chrome and download 'when the levee breaks' as mp4 through google download service. Now play the download using Windows Media Player 11. All good. Next go to Firefox (other computer) and try same thing. First check plays in browser. It does. Then download through google service and media player 11 won’t play video of downloaded mpeg 4 file. Hmm. I guess this is the problem.
Still I’m a little bit lost. I convert firefox download of mpeg 4 file to .wmv using Leawo and when I try and play with media player 11 and all good. Same thing using Format Factory to convert to wmv and all good.
I’m primarily engaging with software at user application layer so I’m a bit unknowing as to what else is happening underneath the browser (say, at session layer). Nonetheless I find ways around doing things even if I am a bit lost that there may be other things going on in layers beneath. And obviously in this case there is something going on. Seems like Firefox didn’t come to party, and Google have always been ready to tempt fate especially when it might put them in an untouchable category.
I cannot help but feel we have the makings of what Polonus refers to as very elaborate moves in the browser positioning chess-game, and I wonder how it is that commercial parties would be able to play with the title html 5 when html as a concept is surely inseparable from web services administered through W3C.
But then I’m mostly at user application layer and, while don’t have time to watch too much video through my browser, I do tend to get what I want with anything I can pull down to my desktop.
And on the wider scheme of things, on the small amount I’ve read so far, it will be interesting to watch this codec and no codec situation play out over the next year..
Edit - Firefox downloaded faster
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H.264 video codec stays royalty-free for HTML5 testers
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/02/04/mpeg_la_h_264_codec_licence/
Freetards stand down - MPEG LA has decided to slash royalties to zero for anyone wishing to use the H.264 codec for free streaming of internet video until the end of 2016.
Mozilla still not interested ;D