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Consumer Products => Avast Free Antivirus / Premium Security (legacy Pro Antivirus, Internet Security, Premier) => Topic started by: Vlk on February 07, 2010, 11:47:55 AM

Title: Avast 5 + MalwareBytes Pro = Conflict? --> More info needed.
Post by: Vlk on February 07, 2010, 11:47:55 AM
Hi guys,

some of you have reported a major conflict (random freezes, bsods etc) between avast 5 and the paid version of MBAM (which, unlike the free version, features an on-access scanner).

As we don't seem able to simulate the problem on our test systems, I'd like to find out more about the problem.

First, we made quite a few stability improvements in the recents builds of avast (not only in the program build 5.0.396, but also via subsequent virus definition updates).

So the first question is, is the problem happening even with an up-to-date installation of avast? (i.e. 5.0.396 and say yesterday's virus defs, i.e. 100206-0 or newer)?

If it is, can you please provide us with more information? Memory dumps would be most welcome (i.e. crash dumps if the system is bsoding, or manually initiated dumps if the system is hanging)...


With your help, we will hopefully be able to find (and fix) the problem soon.


Thanks much
Vlk
Title: Re: Avast 5 + MalwareBytes Pro = Conflict? --> More info needed.
Post by: YoKenny on February 07, 2010, 12:21:36 PM
Quote
Memory dumps would be most welcome (i.e. crash dumps if the system is bsoding, or manually initiated dumps if the system is hanging)...


On my XP Pro system the system hangs if there is a virus defs update at cold boot up requiring a power off then on to recover.

How do I get a Memory dump if the system has hung?

The system also hangs if there is a virus defs update I believe as the system will hang if left on for long periods of time.

I am willing to remove Microsoft Security Essentials and try avast! V5 Free on my XP Pro system again that I will do right now.
Title: Re: Avast 5 + MalwareBytes Pro = Conflict? --> More info needed.
Post by: YoKenny on February 07, 2010, 01:32:31 PM
What I did:

Un-installed Microsoft Security Essentials then reboot
Un-installed Windows Defender then reboot
Windows Security Center indicates that there is no anti virus application
Ran aswclear.exe that I had done before then reboot
Download setup_av_free.exe from CNET Download.com: Avast Free Antivirus 5.0.396
http://download.cnet.com/Avast-Free-Antivirus/3000-2239_4-10019223.html?part=dl-85737&subj=dl&tag=button
Ran setup_av_free.exe choosing Custom as I do not need P2P Shield and system hung during install requiring pressing Power button for 10 seconds
Powered up and Windows Security Center indicates that there is no anti virus application still
Noticed avast! icon rotating for a while then system hung requiring pressing Power button for 10 seconds

The hang looks like it occurs on virus defs update on my system.

I need to provide Memory dump on next system hang.
Title: Re: Avast 5 + MalwareBytes Pro = Conflict? --> More info needed.
Post by: spg SCOTT on February 07, 2010, 01:36:53 PM
Quote
How do I get a Memory dump if the system has hung?

Manual dump instructions: http://support.avast.com/index.php?_m=knowledgebase&_a=viewarticle&kbarticleid=71
Title: Re: Avast 5 + MalwareBytes Pro = Conflict? --> More info needed.
Post by: YoKenny on February 07, 2010, 08:08:58 PM
On my Windows 7 system I noticed that there was a Virus definitions version: update to 100707-0

I booted up my XP Pro system and after about 3 minutes it hung with a BSOD with:

Ox0000000E2 (0x000000 0000000 000000000) Note: there might not be the correct number of zeros there but it has indicated that Physical memory dump complete. is available.

So now I have to figure out how to zip the dump and upload it.

I have not had this much fun since Win98 days when I used to load a BSOD screensaver on people's systems that never locked them when they went to lunch as that was a job I was delegated to do by my employer to insure people followed company policy of locking up one's system when away from it:
http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/sysinternals/bb897558.aspx
Title: Re: Avast 5 + MalwareBytes Pro = Conflict? --> More info needed.
Post by: x1anar1x on February 07, 2010, 09:59:36 PM
I can not provide any "memory dump" or such but i can tell you that the updated version of Avast still has done nothing to correct the issue. Every time i log on to my Computer it freezes and the updates had little to no effect whatsoever, i do have MBAM v 1.41 and the resident protection they provide ON, so they probably conflict with each other on start up.
Title: Re: Avast 5 + MalwareBytes Pro = Conflict? --> More info needed.
Post by: YoKenny on February 07, 2010, 10:02:14 PM
I need a better roadmap as I can not get from point A to point B.

A being here on my XP Pro system and B being ftp.avast.com/incoming

I have Minidump Folder and MEMORY.zip Folder but I can't get there from here ???
Title: Re: Avast 5 + MalwareBytes Pro = Conflict? --> More info needed.
Post by: Vlk on February 07, 2010, 10:46:37 PM
I need a better roadmap as I can not get from point A to point B.

A being here on my XP Pro system and B being ftp.avast.com/incoming

I have Minidump Folder and MEMORY.zip Folder but I can't get there from here ???

First, please pick a more specific name as memory.zip may already exist in the ftp folder.
Next, what exactly is the problem? Just open
Code: [Select]
ftp://ftp.avast.com/incoming in Explorer, and drag'n'drop the file to it...

Thanks
Vlk
Title: Re: Avast 5 + MalwareBytes Pro = Conflict? --> More info needed.
Post by: coolsilver on February 07, 2010, 11:02:12 PM
The only issues I see with 5.0.396 are:

Netbook with Win 7 32 Bit Ultimate:
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Network connection interupted a lot/not loading pages in firefox. Often just after updating definitions or while checking.
Random BSOD after update seems to been corrected (only happened once)
Very high CPU usage for videos/music causing audio slowing and glitching (seems to be as much a Win 7 problem as shields disabled it happens just not as much)

Otherwise no other freezes or issues

Laptop with Win 7 64 Bit Ultimate:
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Random pages not loading in firefox
No BSOD or freezes. Working fine with audio etc.

Both have MalwareBytes PRO with Protection on. Both are updating properly.

I would guess as before the XP specific code is more the issue than Win 7 or backward compatibility there of.


Anything I can do to confirm or replicate a problem I'll be happy to try.
Title: Re: Avast 5 + MalwareBytes Pro = Conflict? --> More info needed.
Post by: rdmaloyjr on February 07, 2010, 11:06:42 PM
It's natural for two antispywarers to conflict.  Avast! has an antispyware module & mbam is one, so bang they're going to bang heads! ::)

It seems to me that if you make them compatible you will weaken one or both.   How do they decide which blocks and/or quarantines which spyware/malware?

I think it best to have mbam and SAS on-demand.  Let avast! be the real-time on access antispyware/antimalware.
Title: Re: Avast 5 + MalwareBytes Pro = Conflict? --> More info needed.
Post by: coolsilver on February 07, 2010, 11:10:09 PM
http://forums.malwarebytes.org/index.php?showtopic=38677&hl=avast

http://forums.malwarebytes.org/index.php?showtopic=37726&hl=avast

http://forums.malwarebytes.org/index.php?s=&showtopic=10138&view=findpost&p=167851


Looks like they are fully aware their product is a problem with other security software.

Plenty of mention of other products with similar issues.
Title: Re: Avast 5 + MalwareBytes Pro = Conflict? --> More info needed.
Post by: coolsilver on February 07, 2010, 11:24:35 PM
WHOA!!!

IP protection is definitely an issue for me. I turned off the MBAM protection but left avast running as normal. Loaded a known youtube video with lots of issues with audio stuttering....

NONE ... even with Avast turned on. I turned the resident protection on and little change. The IP protection was still off. However, once turned IP protection on again... back to massive amounts of stuttering.

Now I do know IP protection blocks sites usually with a popup balloon when it does. But this seems to be limiting packets in a bad way.


Again I can only reproduce this on my Atom based netbook. No application freezes or other issues though.


I also just noticed my Toshiba Flash Cards for FN keys not loading unless MBAM is off.. then works ok for a while on or off :(
Other flash based videos still have an issue with MBAM off. :(
Title: Re: Avast 5 + MalwareBytes Pro = Conflict? --> More info needed.
Post by: YoKenny on February 07, 2010, 11:55:15 PM
I need a better roadmap as I can not get from point A to point B.

A being here on my XP Pro system and B being ftp.avast.com/incoming

I have Minidump Folder and MEMORY.zip Folder but I can't get there from here ???

First, please pick a more specific name as memory.zip may already exist in the ftp folder.
Next, what exactly is the problem? Just open ftp://ftp.avast.com/incoming in Explorer, and drag'n'drop the file to it...

Thanks
Vlk
I can't open the FTP site for some reason. ???
Title: Re: Avast 5 + MalwareBytes Pro = Conflict? --> More info needed.
Post by: YoKenny on February 08, 2010, 12:09:05 AM
I tried another way and all it want to do is un-zip it back to my hard drive.
Title: Re: Avast 5 + MalwareBytes Pro = Conflict? --> More info needed.
Post by: khagaroth on February 08, 2010, 12:22:23 AM
The forum software is doing stupid things to ftp addresses, converting them to http addresses, so what Vlk tried to type was:
Code: [Select]
ftp://ftp.avast.com/incoming
Just press "Win+R", which will open the 'Run' dialog, and type:
Code: [Select]
explorer ftp://ftp.avast.com/incomingThis will open an explorer window, just drop the file inside of it and wait for the upload to finish.
Title: Re: Avast 5 + MalwareBytes Pro = Conflict? --> More info needed.
Post by: YoKenny on February 08, 2010, 12:28:37 AM
The forum software is doing stupid things to ftp addresses, converting them to http addresses, so what Vlk tried to type was:
Code: [Select]
ftp://ftp.avast.com/incoming
Just press "Win+R", which will open the 'Run' dialog, and type:
Code: [Select]
explorer ftp://ftp.avast.com/incomingThis will open an explorer window, just drop the file inside of it and wait for the upload to finish.

This old dog has to learn some new tricks  ;D

Gona watch the Superbowl now.
Title: Re: Avast 5 + MalwareBytes Pro = Conflict? --> More info needed.
Post by: BoerenkoolMet WorstEnJus on February 08, 2010, 07:57:35 AM
I am trialling AIS, currently 5.0.396(started a clean install with .377) and I have no problems with MBAM Pro, I also have Eset Smart Security 4 which also works perfectly with MBAM Pro. I did notice that the MBAM icon only appears a while after all the other icons already have appeared so it probably put itself on delayed start-up. On the MBAM forum delayed start-up is also frequently given with problems with other AV software and MBAM doesn't always do it automatically so doing it manually might help some users here.
Title: Re: Avast 5 + MalwareBytes Pro = Conflict? --> More info needed.
Post by: Vlk on February 08, 2010, 09:54:00 AM
YoKenny, thanks much for the dump. It is indeed interesting... Will be looking into it today.

Thanks
Vlk
Title: Re: Avast 5 + MalwareBytes Pro = Conflict? --> More info needed.
Post by: cakedoer on February 08, 2010, 10:40:06 AM
It seems to only happen on 32-bit systems.

I may try it out in the near future if the problem exists by then.
Title: Re: Avast 5 + MalwareBytes Pro = Conflict? --> More info needed.
Post by: Vlk on February 08, 2010, 01:49:52 PM
It's like a classic conflict between two AV programs. Very typical. The only question is why it worked OK with avast v4.8 - but the stability with v4.8 must have been very fragile anyway (I can imagine system hanging pretty much randomly, even though maybe not too often).

I'll talk to Marcin (Malwarebytes' CEO) and discuss what we can do together.


Thanks so far
Vlk
Title: Re: Avast 5 + MalwareBytes Pro = Conflict? --> More info needed.
Post by: Francois Blais on February 08, 2010, 04:06:46 PM
Tried to upload a dump an hour ago but it failed.
I'm unable to connect to your FTP server since then.
Do you know if it's down or something?
Title: Re: Avast 5 + MalwareBytes Pro = Conflict? --> More info needed.
Post by: Francois Blais on February 08, 2010, 04:46:48 PM
Was able to login on the FTP server again, but I'm now getting an error about not being able to create a file...
WTF?
(incoming folder, of course)
I want to help, but I can't...
(attached error message)
Title: Re: Avast 5 + MalwareBytes Pro = Conflict? --> More info needed.
Post by: coolsilver on February 08, 2010, 05:10:01 PM
Vlk,

Any connection with the removal of old Win9x/ME/2000 code that would have allowed a bit more flexibility? Hate to suggest it but maybe that was a bug of 4.8 where it wouldn't lock files or fight as much over resources which could cause a virus to act in the same manner bypassing the shields?

I really have no idea. But I suppose it worked ok because of those weird os calls and links.

64 bit working ok... I would guess it would be since MBAM protection may be 32 bit only and working due the thw WinSxS config and 32 bit emulation of programs in 64 bit windows.....


Just talking out of my rear... but if it helps thats my ideas
Title: Re: Avast 5 + MalwareBytes Pro = Conflict? --> More info needed.
Post by: Vlk on February 08, 2010, 05:17:47 PM
I think it's a WinXP conflict only.
Title: Re: Avast 5 + MalwareBytes Pro = Conflict? --> More info needed.
Post by: Francois Blais on February 08, 2010, 06:40:43 PM
Was able to login on the FTP server again, but I'm now getting an error about not being able to create a file...
WTF?
(incoming folder, of course)
I want to help, but I can't...
(attached error message)
I was finally able to upload it, zipped with 7-zip this time, so the archive is named FrancoisBlais.7z.
The 7Z format also product a much smaller archive. (158MB instead 221MB for a 512MB dump)
Hope this helps!
I had to uninstall Avast 5 again.
Even with the latest DB update, it hanged the PC this morning.
(MBAM real-time had been delayed 2 minutes at boot-up and was running along with Avast 5 free at that time, and only the file agent was installed, and with file writing analysis only)
Title: Re: Avast 5 + MalwareBytes Pro = Conflict? --> More info needed.
Post by: Hopper15 on February 08, 2010, 08:23:52 PM
It's like a classic conflict between two AV programs. Very typical. The only question is why it worked OK with avast v4.8 - but the stability with v4.8 must have been very fragile anyway (I can imagine system hanging pretty much randomly, even though maybe not too often).

I'll talk to Marcin (Malwarebytes' CEO) and discuss what we can do together.


Thanks so far
Vlk

This didn't happen with my 4.8 at all.
Title: Re: Avast 5 + MalwareBytes Pro = Conflict? --> More info needed.
Post by: redvette84 on February 08, 2010, 09:29:27 PM
I am also using MWB and I also had issues with the pc locking up at times and/or Internet explorer not opening or being unresponsive. It was about 90% of startups. The only thing changed was the installation of version 5. Version 4.8 never gave me these issues. I have uninstalled 5 and returned to 4.8 for now. WinXp.
Title: Re: Avast 5 + MalwareBytes Pro = Conflict? --> More info needed.
Post by: Francois Blais on February 08, 2010, 11:02:30 PM
It's like a classic conflict between two AV programs. Very typical. The only question is why it worked OK with avast v4.8 - but the stability with v4.8 must have been very fragile anyway (I can imagine system hanging pretty much randomly, even though maybe not too often).

I'll talk to Marcin (Malwarebytes' CEO) and discuss what we can do together.


Thanks so far
Vlk

This didn't happen with my 4.8 at all.
Likewise.
Title: Re: Avast 5 + MalwareBytes Pro = Conflict? --> More info needed.
Post by: rdmaloyjr on February 08, 2010, 11:05:02 PM
It's natural for two antispywarers to conflict.  Avast! has an antispyware module & mbam is one, so bang they're going to bang heads! ::)

It seems to me that if you make them compatible you will weaken one or both.   How do they decide which blocks and/or quarantines which spyware/malware?

I think it best to have mbam and SAS on-demand.  Let avast! be the real-time on access antispyware/antimalware.

It's like a classic conflict between two AV programs. Very typical. The only question is why it worked OK with avast v4.8 - but the stability with v4.8 must have been very fragile anyway (I can imagine system hanging pretty much randomly, even though maybe not too often).

I'll talk to Marcin (Malwarebytes' CEO) and discuss what we can do together.


Thanks so far
Vlk

Like I said... ::)

Antivirus, antispyware & antimalware are just about three peas in a pod.
Title: Re: Avast 5 + MalwareBytes Pro = Conflict? --> More info needed.
Post by: Hopper15 on February 09, 2010, 07:59:17 AM
Hopefully everything gets worked out. I don't want to move to Avira.
Title: Re: Avast 5 + MalwareBytes Pro = Conflict? --> More info needed.
Post by: -Genesis- on February 09, 2010, 01:19:57 PM
Hopefully everything gets worked out. I don't want to move to Avira.


Like Vlk said...

It's like a classic conflict between two AV programs. Very typical. The only question is why it worked OK with avast v4.8 - but the stability with v4.8 must have been very fragile anyway (I can imagine system hanging pretty much randomly, even though maybe not too often).

I'll talk to Marcin (Malwarebytes' CEO) and discuss what we can do together.



I think it's a WinXP conflict only.


You can use Avast.

If your running MBAM Running Protection Module it has a probability it will conflict in Windows Xp only.

Use Avast without MBAM if your in Xp.

If you really want to have 2 protection software and you cant wait to be fixed.

Its your choice to use Avira ^^.

Title: Re: Avast 5 + MalwareBytes Pro = Conflict? --> More info needed.
Post by: Avastfan1 on February 09, 2010, 03:40:48 PM
Update for VLK:

Random freezes are still occurring on my system. Specifically shortly after a cold boot, after executing manual definition and programe updates and usually when Firefox is open.

I am beginning to suspect this has a connection with manual and automatic updates. However, I am unsure and cannot offer any evidence to support this.

Without having to edit the registry, or use a paper bag, could you please advise how I can send Alwil a dump?

I am loathe to muck around with the registry as I am not that experienced with computers. Moreover, I have yet to experience the BSOD............

Avastfan1
Title: Re: Avast 5 + MalwareBytes Pro = Conflict? --> More info needed.
Post by: Uncle Bud on February 09, 2010, 06:59:00 PM
Hi guys,

some of you have reported a major conflict (random freezes, bsods etc) between avast 5 and the paid version of MBAM (which, unlike the free version, features an on-access scanner).

As we don't seem able to simulate the problem on our test systems, I'd like to find out more about the problem.

First, we made quite a few stability improvements in the recents builds of avast (not only in the program build 5.0.396, but also via subsequent virus definition updates).

So the first question is, is the problem happening even with an up-to-date installation of avast? (i.e. 5.0.396 and say yesterday's virus defs, i.e. 100206-0 or newer)?

If it is, can you please provide us with more information? Memory dumps would be most welcome (i.e. crash dumps if the system is bsoding, or manually initiated dumps if the system is hanging)...


With your help, we will hopefully be able to find (and fix) the problem soon.


Thanks much
Vlk

This may sound a lil sill Vlk, but at this point in todays common P2P game, you may want to consider having ANYONE with possible input email some kind of proof they are not using some OS they downloaded off P2P or torrent.  As you should know, there was a time when you could get reliable data from those areas but that is long gone.

Now, if someone has an OS that is infected from the getko what kind of results are you thinking they might be getting?  Questionable to say the least.  Also, you should consider having them prove their license validity for Malware Bytes Pro...again, if they got some haked version off P2P then ANYTHING they have given...even non-related to this issue...has destoryed the entire scope of purpose Avast is reaching for.

Yea, yea...Im sure alot will try and say Alwail has no right to see those things...and to that I say they ALSO have no right to take anything one provides withouit showing its from a CLEAN envirooment.  It like trying to develop a vaccintion for the flu while studying people who NEVER have the REAL flu...or are just plain sick with some other disease and anything you give them is not going to give ANY TYPE of accuracy for REAL results.

Other than that...have fun with some other issues.:

http://forum.avast.com/index.php?topic=55182.msg466576#msg466576

http://forum.avast.com/index.php?topic=55186.msg466578#msg466578

and well, I just wouldnt be me without:

http://forum.avast.com/index.php?topic=54889.msg465578#msg465578 (and thank you for consider this at least, I know it might be nothing but again, why should a security app need ANYTHING to do every task in its GUI?)

Peace Love Chaos...btw, I dont use Malware Bytes but can validate my Vista with a picture of me an todays paper with my COA, media, and booklet  8)  withpride.

Title: Re: Avast 5 + MalwareBytes Pro = Conflict? --> More info needed.
Post by: Vlk on February 09, 2010, 09:13:51 PM
Thanks to everyone who helped with this issue. We have just released a pre-release build of avast (5.0.415) that should hopefully solve the issue. We'd be grateful if you could test it for us.

More details here: http://forum.avast.com/index.php?topic=55365.0


Thanks
Vlk
Title: Re: Avast 5 + MalwareBytes Pro = Conflict? --> More info needed.
Post by: sded on February 10, 2010, 12:25:22 AM
Looks like MBAM has the same conflict with with MSE and added a FAQ to cover it, mandatory for XP users.  See section I of http://forums.malwarebytes.org/index.php?showtopic=10138&hl=%255Cmbam-clean%255C MBAM FAQs.  Wonder if the same solution will work for Avast! 5?
Title: Re: Avast 5 + MalwareBytes Pro = Conflict? --> More info needed.
Post by: chrisandbetty on February 19, 2010, 10:40:56 AM
 ??? Hello
first let me say this is my  first purchased computer protection and am 68-I take some time to consider I think!! Any I am absolutly delighted with Avast! 5 full suite, however yesterday I seem to have lost IE 8 that came with windows7 and am also using Mawarebytes free software.

Today I had a look a Mwb and no problem but a mention at top of print out.Database version 3754,windows 6.1.7600,IE 8.0.7600.16385.

A bit above me but I still cannot find IE. I have had MWB free and Avast free for a couple of weeks and no problem.

Will I lose out in security if I delete MWB as it could become a bit of a pain for an amature PC user
Title: Re: Avast 5 + MalwareBytes Pro = Conflict? --> More info needed.
Post by: Shiw Liang on February 19, 2010, 05:41:37 PM
Yup No problem but computer slowed down a lot after installing the pro ;D
Title: Re: Avast 5 + MalwareBytes Pro = Conflict? --> More info needed.
Post by: DavidR on February 19, 2010, 06:39:40 PM
Well at the very least I would exclude the _avast5_ folder from MBAM scans as that is where avast unpacks files to be scanned and this causes at the very least duplication of scanning.
Title: Re: Avast 5 + MalwareBytes Pro = Conflict? --> More info needed.
Post by: Shiw Liang on February 20, 2010, 05:31:36 AM
Yup great idea :)
Title: Re: Avast 5 + MalwareBytes Pro = Conflict? --> More info needed.
Post by: mkis on February 20, 2010, 06:17:42 AM
??? Hello
first let me say this is my  first purchased computer protection and am 68-I take some time to consider I think!! Any I am absolutly delighted with Avast! 5 full suite, however yesterday I seem to have lost IE 8 that came with windows7 and am also using Mawarebytes free software.

Today I had a look a Mwb and no problem but a mention at top of print out.Database version 3754,windows 6.1.7600,IE 8.0.7600.16385.

A bit above me but I still cannot find IE. I have had MWB free and Avast free for a couple of weeks and no problem.

Will I lose out in security if I delete MWB as it could become a bit of a pain for an amature PC user

From what I can see, there has been no conflict between MWB free and avast free. You don't need to delete MWB but use it when you feel like scanning for spyware and make sure you update the program each time before you scan. You will see that many members will advise use of MWB free with avast free (both version 4.8 and version 5). Search the forum to find a few examples.

So your problem is that you still cannot find IE, is that right? Some of us would say that this is a lucky break rather than a problem, but all joking aside you should be able to find IE by clicking Start -> Programs -> Internet Explorer

Or look for it in Control Panel -> Programs and Features. It should be listed as Windows Internet Explorer 8. (I dont have Windows 7 but my directions should be close enough)

You definitely have IE8 - that is why it says so at the top of your MWB printout.

So now, which was your first purchased computer protection? As you say both MWB and avast that you have are the free versions. Or is that not correct?