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Consumer Products => Avast Free Antivirus / Premium Security (legacy Pro Antivirus, Internet Security, Premier) => Topic started by: Johanna on July 16, 2004, 05:49:21 PM

Title: Avast on the web
Post by: Johanna on July 16, 2004, 05:49:21 PM
In what ways does avast help you while visiting web sites?  

J
Title: Re:Avast on the web
Post by: lee20 on July 16, 2004, 06:35:59 PM
depends on

1) What version you have

2) Is it home/pro/ seer ect

3) what Operating system do you have

--lee
Title: Re:Avast on the web
Post by: Johanna on July 16, 2004, 06:47:10 PM
I have the Home edition, and use XP Home, and XP Pro.  I currently have standard shield turned off, if I download anything I scan it after it's downloaded.

J
Title: Re:Avast on the web
Post by: lee20 on July 16, 2004, 06:59:29 PM
hmmm, it proberly best to read what it can do for you on this avast page http://www.avast.com/eng/avast_4_home.html

P.S. the pro version can provide more protection if you so wish, you cn find out about that here http://www.avast.com/eng/avast_4_professional.html

hope this helps

--lee
Title: Re:Avast on the web
Post by: DavidR on July 16, 2004, 07:13:09 PM
I have the Home edition, and use XP Home, and XP Pro.  I currently have standard shield turned off, if I download anything I scan it after it's downloaded.

J
Hi Johanna,

You are disabling your major means of effective defense, standard shield provides a high level of protection and only scanning files that you download is a major mistake.

What about the hundreds or thousands of files that are downloaded into your temporary internet folders? They are also a major source of potential infection by trogans, etc.

My advice is never have it switched off without a specific reason, and there are not many of those, that I would switch it off for. Here is a brief outline on the various providers within avast!

Standard Shield. It checks the applications being run and documents being opened. It will not allow an infected application to start or an infected document to be opened, thus possibly protecting you from activating/spreading a virus.

Internet Mail. It checks incoming and outgoing e-mail messages processed by clients other than MS Outlook or Exchange, such as Outlook Express, Eudora etc. Again, it will refuse to accept or send a message containing a viral code.

Outlook/Exchange. It checks incoming and outgoing e-mail messages processed by MS Outlook client (it is part of the MS Office package - it is not the same as the simpler Outlook Express!) or MS Exchange. It will refuse to accept or send a message containing a viral code.

Instant Messaging. It checks the files downloaded by common communication programs, such as ICQ or MSN Messenger.

P2P Shield. It checks the files downloaded by common P2P (file sharing) programs, such as Kazaa and others.  

This comes from the avast help file and I suggest devoting some time to brows and become more familiar with the program and the protection it can provide.

HTH David
Title: Re:Avast on the web
Post by: Johanna on July 16, 2004, 07:58:01 PM
I read the pages you suggested and see the Pro does have Script protection.  Don't get me wrong when I ask some questions.  But I can't see a need for avast to scan every file that gets opened or created.  I think you can set avast to ignore scanning certain files but, if I have no viruses why would I need the scanning of everything that gets run, slowing down the PC?

Can avast Pro be set to only scan scripts on the net, and not any other files?  My PC is pretty well protected, and if something should happen I can always restore the OS with an image backup in a few minutes.

I use avast after trying other AV software, I like avast the best, I just can't see a good reason for the constant scanning, even if using a different AV software then avast.   I can understand that  for people who are not careful and have no backups that they should have it on.  My chief  concern is what would be my risk on the net if the places I frequent are sites where I get information only.  I do no online banking or visit porn sites, chat rooms, no P2P, no messenger programs, etc.   I do go to well known download sites and try out some programs.  After trying them out I don't uninstall them, I just restore my PC instead.

J
Title: Re:Avast on the web
Post by: lee20 on July 16, 2004, 08:10:59 PM
If you make back ups i suppose you are fine, i personaly don't, so i set it to high, but i don't find it slows the pc down, im only running P3 450MHz and 256 RAM and it still runs really fast with it on high.
I also have a hardware and software firewall, and 5 spyware scanners, sometimes use online scanners aswell, spyblaster, proccess viewer, im very carfull when caring for my pc, but i do like it to get infected once in a while so i can sort it out, i get very suspicious when there is nothing detected on my pc for a while.


Quote
Can avast Pro be set to only scan scripts on the net, and not any other files?
double click the small blue ball in the taskar and then click details, you can then select what you want scanning, also you can open avast! scanner and click menu (top corner) and then select settings for other preferences.


--lee
Title: Re:Avast on the web
Post by: Johanna on July 16, 2004, 08:16:24 PM
I don't understand this statment:
"What about the hundreds or thousands of files that are downloaded into your temporary internet folders? They are also a major source of potential infection by trogans, etc."

How can these files effect my PC, the files are set to be cleared when I exit the browser.

In 8 years I have many virues  sent to me by email, but I don't open them.  If a attachment is sent by someone I know I would save it first,  then scan it.  If I wanted to run anything that was sent to me I also scan it with InControl to see what it may do to my PC.  If it adds anything to my registry or something else I don't like I just restore my PC.

I have only had 1 Trojan on my PC in those 8 years, and never a virus.  I'm on the net for hours each day and have installed a few hundred programs in that time never picked up a virus from them,  The only other problem I ran into was getting suckered into a program that had spyware in it, and that happened twice.

j
Title: Re:Avast on the web
Post by: lee20 on July 16, 2004, 08:27:48 PM
Quote
"What about the hundreds or thousands of files that are downloaded into your temporary internet folders? They are also a major source of potential infection by trogans, etc."

What if the trojan ect was programed to drop more of itself into another folder strait after it got into your temp folder?

Quote
If it adds anything to my registry or something else I don't like I just restore my PC.

What if the place you restore it to is infected or has something in the registry that you don't no about?


Quote
I have only had 1 Trojan on my PC in those 8 years, and never a virus

you most liley have and still do, there are to many virus/trojans/spyware out there, you can't stop/detect them all, they are problem there and you just don't no about it.

--lee



Title: Re:Avast on the web
Post by: DavidR on July 16, 2004, 09:07:45 PM
Quote
I don't understand this statment:
"What about the hundreds or thousands of files that are downloaded into your temporary internet folders? They are also a major source of potential infection by trogans, etc."

How can these files effect my PC, the files are set to be cleared when I exit the browser.

You only have to look at the many requests for help with trogans on these forums to see that many of the paths are to the temporary internet folder.

That's just it they are there until you exit your pc.

Web pages with hidden payload could and do attempt to get into your system (they can download files in the background without your knowledge), so even after being cleared they magically reappear when you restart, how does that happen?

The scanning level can be set by you, so as not to be a drag on your system (unless your systems is already low on resources/power), yet still offer a level of protection. I rarely even notice the scanning in the background, avast is less of a drag than any other AV I have used, see my settings below.

The advice is there its your computer and choice to ignore it or not.

Title: Re:Avast on the web
Post by: Johanna on July 17, 2004, 05:56:21 AM
I just did some testing first I backed up my PC.  I ran avast and it didn't find any viruses or trojans.  I downloaded "Tauscan" a trojan scanner and it found nothing.  Installed Adaware it found nothing but Alexa which is what is part of IE, (I don't have the Alexa Tool bar).  Installed Spybot it only finds the same Aleax.  So I have no viruses, trojans, or spyware.  Restored my PC back to before I installed this software.

I'm not trying to be a pain or make things difficult for any one or even get into any sort of an arguement.  I'm also not trying to put myself off as any expert.  I do consider myself  to be a lot more cautious than most and only download software from reputable places.  Even then I take precautions.  I just can't understand why I need avast scanning every file that gets called on if I haven't any viruse, or Trojan's at this time.  I think most of the viruses and Trojan's come by email, and even though they may be sent to me I just delete the stuff....never even look at it.

I have downloaded a lot of software from Nonags, and sites like it, and never  seen a virus on a scan.  I don't install anything I don't pretty much know before hand what it is.  If I don't know what something is I don't install it or run it.

Anyway enough of all this, just need some one to explain how I can get something installed on my PC like a Trojan from going to a web site.  Just how is it done without me ok'ing some install?  If it can be done just how likely is it that it can happen?

J

Title: Re:Avast on the web
Post by: doggeral on July 17, 2004, 06:14:10 AM
Quote
I have the Home edition, and use XP Home, and XP Pro.  I currently have standard shield turned off, if I download anything I scan it after it's downloaded.

Man I agree with you here.  If you are smart then viruses arent an issue when it comes to the standard shield except to slow your pc down.  Don't get me wrong i'm a happy avast user.   I scan my email and downloads, but  it is proven time and time again that an effective firewall at any point (if its in your router or on your pc) is the appropriate action to take against unwanted action on your pc.....of course this assumes one knows what is on their pc and does not run their pc with administrative rights (probably the biggest mistake almost ALL windows users make and a major difference between windows and alternative operating systems.).  

Antivirus isn't an effective means against what you would get on your computer anyways....in that if your pc is up to date and has a firewall the type of viruses you would get would not be detected by any current antivirus anyway.   So being a smart computer user is the best defense independent of any antivirus.
Title: Re:Avast on the web
Post by: bob3160 on July 18, 2004, 02:37:18 AM
Johanna
Take a look at this thread:
http://forum.avast.com/index.php?board=1;action=display;threadid=5970 (http://forum.avast.com/index.php?board=1;action=display;threadid=5970)
and this one:
http://forum.avast.com/index.php?board=9;action=display;threadid=5990 (http://forum.avast.com/index.php?board=9;action=display;threadid=5990)
Title: Re:Avast on the web
Post by: Johanna on July 18, 2004, 04:43:01 AM
Bob, thanks for the threads!    I read them, and I have heard about emails being sent to people with links that will install things on your PC.  Microsoft has come out with a number of critical updates to protect people from some of these  where people are tricked into clicking a link  mostly contained in an email.  I suppose someone could sucker me into clicking on a link that could be a bad one and I could get something.  But not very likely from email I get.  I have my mail set up so I only can get mail from who I want and all Spam is deleted off the server.  

I can see a small chance it could happen to me, but I make a image backup almost everyday to another hard drive (takes less than 10 minutes) usually when I take a shower.  At times I burn a backup onto a DVD which is bootable.  I can restore my PC to just about any week I choose up to 1 1/2 years ago, so I don't worry about bad programs, PC problems, viruses, and such.

I think most people are too click happy when they get on the web and don't pay attention as to what they click on and the consequences of their actions, or just plain  get tricked to click on something.  I'm sure you've seen the one that says "Your Computer is Not Optimized for the Web, do you want to Optimize it Now", so they think sure go ahead Optimize my PC.  Many examples could be given of these ads and pop-ups that trick people to click on them.

For a long time I never used any antivirus software, and never picked up a virus when it seemed like everyone was getting them, and it was people who had a AV program installed who were still getting viruses.  I guess they thought the attachment was ok to open because the AV program didn't see a virus in it.  What seems strange to me is why these people never learned and still wind up getting a virus who have a AV program.  I really think they think ' I have AV protection' and don't think or learn you don't open attachments.  I have read and heard people make statments 'Man I sure am glad I have my AV program, it caught such and such a virus'.  I know these people will open any blooming thing if the AV program doesn't tell them it's a virus.

One thing that was a shock to me was to find out there are other people like me who never even use AV software ( I use avast now, but a lot just for some testing I do.).  I was listening to TV Tech on the radio here one day this year and Leo Laporte was interviewing Steve Gibson who is very big on security http://grc.com/default.htm  During the interview Leo asked Steve what AV program he used, he said he didn't use any, then Leo said he didn't use any either.  And Leo is also very big on security.  Leo's site is at http://leo.typepad.com/radio/ and I'm sure you can even fined the interview still at Leo's site.  

BTW, I recomend avast! to all my friends and on my web site, I have tried about 7 different AV programs out and like avast! the best.  <S>

PS: last thing was I think I found the link to the interview if someone wants to hear it.
http://www.leovilletownsquare.com/archives/20040411-3.mp3

J
Title: Re:Avast on the web
Post by: bob3160 on July 18, 2004, 06:30:25 AM
Johanna
Thanks for the MP3. I'm listening to it now. I notice that you have the standard shield turned off. You have more guts than me. I'm not a fanatic when it comes to security because I still use a MS based browser. I'm on the computer most of the day and do a lot of browsing. Even though lately, I've been spending more and more time on these Forums. As far as downloads go, If it's there and looks interesting, I've probably got it. Thank God for recordable DVD's.
I also have a full mirror image of my C:\ Drive on another HD.
I just started using R-Drive Image. For most things, the system restore function is still a handy tool.
I have one more thread I'd like you to check out.
http://forum.avast.com/index.php?board=9;action=display;threadid=6028 (http://forum.avast.com/index.php?board=9;action=display;threadid=6028)
Have a good night.

P.S.
You almost didn't get this because This Site went down just as I was getting the URL for you. Good thing I use Green browser which is a tabbed browser so I was able to save most of this post.
Title: Re:Avast on the web
Post by: DavidR on July 18, 2004, 02:46:50 PM
Hi Johanna,

Reading your further posts now gives me a good idea of your experience level and more importantly your common sense approach to surfing the net and general computer security. Had I known that before, I would not have been so concerned at your leaving standard shield off (otherwise any suggestion/advise has to err on the side of caution). Your image backup strategy should keep you reasonably well protected, I have always believed that common sense is potentially 90% of protection, so it is not unusual that some people don't seem to get infected.

Your backup/recovery strategy should get you out of any trouble that you might encounter on-line (got a problem, install yesterdays image, problem solved). Many people don't have any backup strategy, other than 'oh my god' what am I going to do now! Worst case scenario, format, reinstall OS and all programs, lose most if not all volatile data, program settings, windows updates, etc. etc.

I only take an image (PowerQuest Drive Image 2002, a bit long in the tooth now) once a week and that too goes on a 2nd HDD. I use a little program called mirror.exe (115KB, runs in dos window) for daily back ups of volatile data). So the worst case scenario for me would be to lose 6 days worth of new programs and any windows tweaks, updates, settings changes, etc. and one days worth of volatile data changes. A little inconvenient, but much less than 'oh my god.'

General advice for others reading this thread.
Some 18 months ago I did get blasted (using AVG6), when I switched to WinXP Pro from win98se, the installation disk had sp1 included, however, I went on line to get the latest windows updates, virus pattern files, etc. and was infected (MS Blaster) within 30 seconds of being online.

This is one occasion where it is possible to get infected whilst online, now that should be ok if people were patched, but without an imaging backup strategy, all those patches are lost in the 'oh my god' situation too. Another potential problem is it iframe vulnerability, where the iframe pulls in a page that calls/executes code to that can be harmful. This vulnerability was only recently patched, but we await the next vulnerability and the time taken to identify and patch, leaves us open to potential harm.

The moral of the story, exercise common sense (and you are 90% of the way there), have a backup and recovery strategy, an image copy is I feel the easiest and best option.

David
Title: Re:Avast on the web
Post by: Johanna on July 18, 2004, 04:21:25 PM
Hi Bob,

What happened to this person is exactly what I was talking about.  They had their AV program, it didn't detect a virus, they opened the attachment, they got in trouble.  Also no backups which makes it worse.

I have been using Imaging programs for quite a while, started with the first Ghost, then tried Drive Image, True Image, (all versions of each program) plus others.  Found what I think is the best of them all http://www.bootitng.com/  it's simple never fails, and cost less than half than the other programs.  System Restore can't be trusted, just do a search on Google "System Restore Fails" to see.  With a good backup you don't have to worry at all if you run into something that screwed up your PC.  I very rarely uninstall any program I just restore to any image I have made in the past.  

One other note is that in all the cases I see where people are getting a virus or tricked into clicking on a link  stems from some email they got.  I would like to know of some cases where people were not exploring the dark places of the net who picked up something which screwed up their PC.  A firewall or router is more important  to have than AV software for protection while on the net, and when it comes to email use some common sense, it's beed told over and over again don't open attachments.

I guess with all this just starting with my question about using avast for protection while on the web is somewhat answered for myself anyway.  In that as long as I use a router, firewall, don't go to the dark alleys of the net, have my PC up to date with security patches, it's not likely I'll pick up something.  Even if I did, I would just restore the PC.

PS: here's a site that has some visual tutorials of the program I use.  http://www.heffy.com/

J
Title: Re:Avast on the web
Post by: MikeBCda on July 18, 2004, 07:08:11 PM
One question on imaging -- would Restore-IT be considered an equivalent?  It does daily incremental restore points for all files that have been changed (including deleted) since the previous point, not just system files, so it beats the heck out of system restore in that sense.

Farstone claims it'll even restore a drive that's been accidently (or maliciously) reformatted, since it's on its own partition.  But I'm not sure how you'd access it in a case like that, if the main drive including OS is gone.
Title: Re:Avast on the web
Post by: bob3160 on July 18, 2004, 10:14:17 PM
Johanna
Thanks for the insite. Does Image Back-up and Restore Software have a trial version?
By the way, your sight is an excellent source of all kinds of goodies. Again, thanks. Please stick around.
Title: Re:Avast on the web
Post by: Johanna on July 18, 2004, 10:21:48 PM
Hi Mike,

To be honest this is one I've never tried.  It appears like it may be just a little like the "GoBack" program which Norton bought.  GoBack is a very good program, and better than System restore.  Here's a link to Fred Langa's comments on some of these things http://langa.com/newsletters/2001/2001-12-03.htm#1

On backups http://www.langa.com/backups/backups.htm

I think Fred discovered the BootIt and Image for Windows last year and was excited to find it.  I think  some of the tech's at Microsoft use and recomend the Terabyte products as well.  

I'll give you an example of how I use IFW & IFD: (I also have BootIt)

I bought a new laptop, defraged it first, then burned an image on to a DVD using IFD.
Uninstalled Norton AV and some other programs that came with the PC that I didn't want, defraqed and made and image.  Installed all MS critical updates, defraged and made an image.  Installed a few programs I use, defraged and made an image.  Installed some more programs, defraged and made an image.  I just continue to keep my PC cleaned, defraged, and backed up at all times.  It may sound like a lot of time and work to do this but it's not time consuming at all.  Last time test I did was 1 minute 33 seconds to run Disk Cleanup and Defrag, 10 min 36 sec to make an image with validation....when it's doing the backup I take my shower.  So the results are I can restore my PC actually to any point.  I did however in the beginning make some partitions on the 80 gig HD that came with the PC.  One 8 gig partition for XP,  one 8 gig partition to install the larger programs I have, plus for the temporary internet and mail files, paging file, and downloads.  The last partition it for backups.  There's other things I do but this is just a little of it.  The PC's I have run like a dream and if there's is the smallest problem that comes up I restore it to any point I need.  The restore takes under 5 minutes, on my laptop

Any backup is better than none at all, and there are many good programs that will do it for you,  I know there some here that use Ghost, and it's a good product, so is Drive Image, and True Image.  I bought and used them all, I just prefer the one I use for different reasons I discovered using the others.

J
Title: Re:Avast on the web
Post by: Johanna on July 18, 2004, 10:27:02 PM
Bob,

The trial is for 30 days but the images made with a trial version I don't think will restore.  The latest version will now do NTFS partitions, so you don't have to have any FAT 32 partitions.

J
Title: Re:Avast on the web
Post by: Johanna on July 18, 2004, 10:43:05 PM
David,

I use another program called "ViceVersa Pro"  www.tgrmn.com  With this program I never loose anything when I do a restore.  Before I restore I make sure I run ViseVersa, then restore, and run ViceVersa again.

A freeware program I tested out called SyncBack http://fileforum.betanews.com/detail/1070420627/1 does the same thing. I didn't know about it before I bought ViceVersa.

J
Title: Re:Avast on the web
Post by: bob3160 on July 18, 2004, 11:35:16 PM
Johanna
One of my problems is that I have 2 HD'd 60Gig and 120Gig. Neither of them are partitioned. Partitioning is just something I never did. So now when I make a backup, it's got to be the whole C drive cause that's where windows is.
Title: Re:Avast on the web
Post by: DavidR on July 19, 2004, 12:51:20 AM
Johanna,
Thanks for the links. If nothing else this thread will I'm sure be great source of information and very helpfull for those reading it later.

Bob,
You might want to look at Partition Magic (there are others, this is one of the best), as it allows you to partition your HDD without destroying existing data, version 8 is XP compatible (ntfs, fat32, etc. support). I am just about to buy version 8 (ebay $27.99 + postage, very reasonable), had previous versions up to version 7 (win98se). I never experienced a problem with the program previously.
Title: Re:Avast on the web
Post by: bob3160 on July 19, 2004, 01:00:43 AM
David or Johanna
My main problem is that I really don't have the faintest Idea about partitions. What sizes do I need?   etc etc
I was always told that the only thing partitioning did was the wast space.
I also know it's a royal pain to have to image a monster of a drive when all you want is one directory.
Title: Re:Avast on the web
Post by: DavidR on July 19, 2004, 01:21:01 AM
Hi Bob,

There is lots of information, but the main consideration is what is your usage.

Google it (http://www.google.com/search?q=hdd+partition+tutorial&sourceid=firefox&start=0&start=0&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8)

A visit to Fred Langa's website http://langa.com/index.html (http://langa.com/index.html) may also have some info.

Also Scot Finnie's website at http://www.scotsnewsletter.com/ (http://www.scotsnewsletter.com/)

General Use suggestion
Windows Partition - 10GB for your windows partition should be fine and allow windows and programs, assuming you want them on the same partition, mine are on a different partition.

Data Partition - 10-20GB for all your volatile data files, Word docs, etc. spreadsheets, database files.

Music/Images Partition - This would depend on your usage and could potentially be your largest partition (probably the rest of the HDD space). This allows for expansion/resizing of the other partitions, etc.
Title: Re:Avast on the web
Post by: bob3160 on July 19, 2004, 01:35:16 AM
Thanks DavidR
I also get all of those news letters. Guess i'll have to go back and do some more reading or wait till the next harddrive and start it off partitioned.
Title: Re:Avast on the web
Post by: Johanna on July 19, 2004, 03:26:36 AM
Just some info partitioning.  Partition Magic 8 is great and easy to use, also the BootIt program can partition your hard drive as well as make images.  I did mine with PM 8 even though I have BootIt.  It's really up to each individual how much space you want for each partition.  It's a puzzle to me why some people keep everything on one large HD.  Maintenance and backups take a long time when you have to do it on one large partition.

This would be just  an example  of what I would do if I had small 40 gig HD with XP on it.  If your are going to start from a point where you already have a lot on it and I'll say 12 gigs is used.
 
Partition the drive in 2 first and move things from C: to the new partition.
Put things like images, movies, mp3 or other sound files, etc. on the new partition.
Make another partition if you like for backups.

To make your backup images as small as possible you can change your internet cache, and mail to the second partition, and because these are always being changed they will not be fragmenting your C: drive either.  I also moved my pagefile.sys to the second partition it isn't something that needs to be backed up.  I disabled Hibernation and that saves space, and then I turned off System Restore to save more space, since I have the backups I don't need it or use it.

I have some large programs installed on the second partition such as the Microsoft Plus! Digital Media Edition (736 mb),  Microsoft Picture It! 9 (424 mb), E-Sword (639 mb).  I don't need to back these up every time.  I try to keep XP around 3 gigs, but have 8 gigs on that partition.  

Using just about any imaging program those 3 gigs will fit on 3 CD's because the images are compressed, and that's if you do wnat to put some on CD's once in a while. to make room on your backup partition.  

There are some things to consider depending on you PC and if you have certian programs installed already.

If you have GoBack and maybe the  Restore-IT program installed you will need to uninstall them first before doing making any partitions.  Always investigate any programs you have installed that have changed or monitor your MBR (Master Boot Record)  They will have to be uninstalled. first.

If you have a PC that has a hidden partition that has your factory recovery on it then that's a nother thing to check out.  Many of the newer PC's have this hidden partition.

Oh my, this can really turn into something that could take a lot of explaining for a post like this.  One has to look at their PC as to what steps to do.  There is not just a simple answer that would fit each PC.

Once you have partitions and a good image program you'll never go back to what you had before.   Norton bought Partition Magic  too!  

I have had people come over my home just to give them a demo, I delete programs, unstall programs, delete windows files so the PC will not ever boot up.  I take out a little floppy with IFD in it or put in a bootable CD or DVD, and in a few minutes Bingo it's just as it was before we did the damage.  What happens is they ask me to come over their house and setup their PC. like that.  I have done  3 this year, and you should see the confidence they have in that they don't have to worry about much at all if something goes wrong with their PC.  

J
Title: Re:Avast on the web
Post by: bob3160 on July 19, 2004, 01:24:03 PM
Johanna
Thanks for the great explanation. It's actually more involved than one can absorb in a few minutes.
If your ever in NM, your welcome to set my system up to. :) :)
Title: Re:Avast on the web
Post by: Johanna on July 19, 2004, 04:11:55 PM
On my PC I use PerfectDisk, and I'm not trying to sell PD to anyone but if you want to listen to this you can learn why defraging is important. pnm://realaudio2.interland.net:7070/techtalkradio/raxco.rm

J

Title: Re:Avast on the web
Post by: shgoh on July 19, 2004, 04:50:23 PM
this is far too paranoid isn't it??? :o ::)
Title: Re:Avast on the web
Post by: CharleyO on July 20, 2004, 05:30:34 AM


What? Someone actually thinks defragging is unimportant??    ???  

Some people never cease to amaze me or make me wonder ... what are they thinking?    ;)  


Title: Re:Avast on the web
Post by: bob3160 on July 20, 2004, 06:13:02 AM
shgoh
Keep this in mind. When your computer acts as though it was on the internet on a 14.4 dialup connection and, every folder takes it's time to open, it might just be time to defrag!
When your hardrive sounds like a machine gun cause every file has to be collected from all over, it might just be time for a defrag.
The bigger the harddrive, the longer it takes to do a defrag that's usually why it gets put off till we have no choice.
The more files you install and uninstall, the more you harddrive will be fragmented.
Title: Re:Avast on the web
Post by: shgoh on July 20, 2004, 12:45:23 PM
yeah i know.. :)

but then remember we are the masters of the computers....defrag too much sometimes becomes too troublesome & unnecessary...then we becomes their slaves instead :'(
Title: Re:Avast on the web
Post by: bob3160 on July 20, 2004, 03:43:40 PM
shgoh
For most people, it's prob. true that a defrag is only needed once per year.
I test a lot of software so, I'm constantly adding, trying and then most of the time uninstalling the program again.
So I do mine about once a month. Since I always defrag when I'm usually not on the computer anyway, it really isn't any bother.
Title: Re:Avast on the web
Post by: Johanna on July 20, 2004, 05:12:17 PM
When I began this thread I asked one question which I really wanted to know. "In what ways does avast help you while visiting web sites?"

No one knows or can possibly know everything when it comes to a computer & things related to it.  Some of the people who are knowledgeable about many things will not know even something that's simple for others.  I see myself as knowing only a fraction of what can be known when it comes to the computer world, so never try to paint myself as an expert on anything.  What ever a person learns comes by 'Instruction, Observation, and Experience' it can be good or bad in these three things.

One lesson I have learned by 'Observation, and Experience' is that it's very difficult to communicate by typing words, you can,t hear the persons voice tone, or see the expressions in the face and many things are left unsaid .  So I find it frustrating trying to communicate by typing.

One of my faults is that I am sort of a perfectionist in some areas, computers being one of them.  I’ll always be learning, but never an expert.  I started like you all did, knowing nothing.  What I have learned I put in practice in the way I do things, which is different from they way each of you do things.  I have learned by 'Instruction, Observation, and Experience' that backups are very important.  All a person has to do is “Observe” the millions of post on the news groups and in forums like this one to see that if a person had a backup they could be free of the problem they are in.  I have also “Observed” that even installing good software or an update can bring a PC down.  I was at our computer club one day when the president of the club installed the latest critical updates from Microsoft before the class began.  During the process the PC locked up and could not be booted, so everything had to be reinstalled…no backup!  So I learned by “Observing and Experience’… make sure you have a backup!  This has also happened to others when you look at the post in news groups.

Another thing I learned by 'Instruction, Observation, and Experience' is the importance of PC maintenance.  I can remember reading in the first Norton Utility help section that they recommend you defrag the free space before you install software to keep files installed in a contiguous order.  Read also the people who are really into games will defrag before and after they install some of the games they play.  They know that if the files are not fragmented in hundreds of places on their hard drives the games will work better, just like any program will….less head seeks to find the file!  I do ‘Observe” PC’s at homes where the PC is slow as can be because the files needed are in hundreds of places on the hard drive…they didn’t know about PC maintenance at all, or if the did they didn’t do it as often as they should.

I had posted the way I set up a PC and the detail I go through by always backing up and defraging before each install of some of the software that gets installed when I do a persons PC.   Then I was called paranoid for this.  So I came back and removed the part of the post of what I do.  Shgoh didn’t know why I really did all this extra work so he saw it as on the paranoid side.  The main reason I do the constant backups is that once I start I don’t ever want to have to start all over from the beginning if something should happen.  The reason for the frequent defrags is to keep the files in as a contiguous order as possible.

As I said above I removed all what I said on what I do when setting up a PC and only left the part about defraging.  I  removed it because I was looked at as being paranoid, it was kind of a jab at me, and hurt.  But he didn’t know the reason why I did these things.

The part of my post I did leave seems to have cause more of the poking at me, I should have removed it all or just tried to explain why I do things like I do.  Also the link I gave to the interview doesn’t work so try this one of these if you want to hear it.
http://www.techtalkradio.com/software/raxco.htm
http://www.techtalkradio.com/real/raxco.ram

PS: I can say I have learned some more lessons by all this.

J
Title: Re:Avast on the web
Post by: DavidR on July 20, 2004, 07:01:48 PM
Hi Johanna,

Far from being paranoid, it is good common sence and good preventitive maintenence.

Anyone who doesn't have a backup/recovery strategy soon gets religion once they suffer their first system crash and can't get back into windows. If you don't have a plan then you plan to fail.

The loss of addressbook, emails, bookmarks, documents, images, music, program settings, tweaks, windows updates, hardware drivers, etc. etc. built up over months and years, really know what pain is! What cost an ounce of prevention compared with, fdisk, format, reinstall OS, programs, drivers (have you still got those old CDs, program keys, etc?) all from scratch. This kind of major loss is all the more likely when all your data is in the same partition as windows.

When your HDD is partitioned for efficiency and maintenance, defragmenting is much less of a hassle. I think it was RejZor who posted a link to download a small defrag program that goes like the wind by comparison to te default windows defragger. So it is even less of a chore and when done as a regular task even easier.

I usually do a weekly pc maintenance job (about an hour, hardly what I call being a slave), starting with deleting all internet and other temp files (if you want to kep something then it shouldn't be in temp), a boot virus scan, defrag my 2 HDDs before doing an image backup copy (of my C and D partitions on drive 1) saved onto my drive 2.

I also do a daily backup of volatile data, docs, OE .dbx files, addressbook, favourites, etc. (this takes about 30 seconds) using a small program called mirror.exe and a batch file I created.

Call me paranoid if you like, I don't give a stuff. I have a system that runs well and I have peace of mind, knowing I don't have to start from scratch should the worst happen.

I am sure that Shogh, was not making a personal comment, rather a general comment more related to his later post about, you rule the computer not the other way round.

Other people also took your point that it is beneficial and considering at the time of typing this there had been 462+ viewings of this thread and that was the only one that could be considered negative.

The removal of the information (thought paranoid ???) will only be a loss good general advice for those coming behind.

David
Title: Re:Avast on the web
Post by: Johanna on July 20, 2004, 07:45:25 PM
David,
I guess you are a little like I am as far a maintenance goes, except I run ‘Disk Cleanup & PerfectDisk every day…takes around 2 minutes.  Any new documents or changes in address book, favorites, etc. are backed up everyday with ViceVersa also less than 2 minutes.  I only make a backup if I want to install something new.

As far as the performance of my PC’s they fly, and I just don’t really run into problems.

It was how I go about setting up a PC at the beginning that looks like some kind of paranoia.  But I want to do a good job of it from the beginning, and have the PC run as best as it can.

I’m not at all mad at Shogh because I know I didn’t explain why I do what I do, just some of the things I do.  I regret not explaining why I do it the way I do, and also regret removing what I do from the post.

I’m the kind of person who likes to help people if I can,  and I sure appreciate it when others help me.

J
Title: Re:Avast on the web
Post by: bob3160 on July 20, 2004, 09:49:19 PM
Besides, Johanna if you delete this, it would louse up my favorites. This particular post has already been added under reference material. (Partitioning and Defrag Ref.)
Thanks for sharing your wealth of knowlegde.

Title: Re:Avast on the web
Post by: bob3160 on July 21, 2004, 04:42:27 PM
Johanna
I have just referred someone named Dollard to this post who needs help with True Image. and trans. an image to a new HD.
I hope you'll be able to help Dollard.
Thanks.