Avast WEBforum
Other => General Topics => Topic started by: polonus on July 10, 2010, 12:02:11 AM
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Hi malware fighters,
Your privacy is going even further out of the window, first there was geo-location to locate you within a circle of approx 20 miles from your home, now they target your zip code, so they pinpoint you on what side of the street you live:
http://www.wired.com/epicenter/2010/06/coming-soon-web-ads-tailored-to-your-zip-4/all/1
“ISPs love Feeva, because we help them participate in the ecosystem instead of being just dumb pipes, and letting Google make all the money from their expensive infrastructure.”
I know ISP and Google are welcoming this, but what do users/sheeple think?
pol
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Ads are easily ignored even the ones that are tailored for businesses close to home. :)
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Hi forum friends,
For those that haven't thought about the implications of this, you can always do what they do automatically manually here and have an idea of what this is all about: http://zip4.usps.com/zip4/welcome.jsp ;D
Well I will further block all them ads, "how relevant they may be to my street view" with a combination of ABP + and several relevant ABP subscription lists, Request Policy and naturally NoScript. This is important because we are no longer talking about necessary sacrifices of our privacy, we are talking about excessive and deliberate efforts to erode any privacy at all. (Nothwithstanding the fact that there are also reasonable and decent advertisers),
Another view: http://www.p2pnet.net/story/41216
polonus
P.S. Yes, bob, and you can just deny that specific deal...
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Ads are easily ignored even the ones that are tailored for businesses close to home. :)
Snap, I don't give a stuff about ads, geo-location or otherwise, they would all get canned by adblock plus and or NoScript. my only concern about ads is the bandwidth they take up on dial-up and that is the only reason I block them.
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Damien,
Privacy or the lack of it is always a personal issue. IMHO
Some of us are more "private" than others.
I personally have run into some very good bargains because I don't mind some of the ads.
I also subscribe to some "Special Deals" subscriptions. But, that's me. ;D
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Hi malware fighters,
Your privacy is going even further out of the window,
If you value your privacy then don't use the Internet! ::)
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okay my opinion is that the Internet is free to browse, and those behind it need to make money, they're not there because they love humanity ;D And they won't hesitate using the meanest ways to achieve their goals >>> $$$ ;D That's a normal thing, they're using technology to target potential customers. Now as an individual you don't have to collaborate, that's a personal choice, and I'll use all the necessary tools to block ad servers ;)
ps: there are still limits, and Google went beyond the acceptable with StreetView and the recording of data from unprotected wireless LANs (those with no WEP/WPA...yeah some are asking for it). They did that while taking the pics, and they're now saying they're sorry and didn't do it purposely :D >>>> they said they won't do it again ::)
edit: the pic posted above is obnoxious ("why bother about privacy if you've done nothing wrong")
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Hi Logos,
But nobody here thought about the implication of the technique - what you do online, and your ISP data/zip code being coupled uniquely. What if these data do not go to ad-launchers, but to Big Content Industry watchdogs like RIAA etc. and the unaware users will find a letter on their doormat with a settlement proposal for infringement they cannot refuse (they used a link on a blog for instance). We here know `we can always blame malware for this behavior of computers`, but what does the innocent user of P2P services say, the Argentinian hacker already did a try-out on PirateBay recently, the privacy, pinpointed ads and the privacy implementations are not the main source of concern in this case, but how "they" could abuse total transparency,
polonus
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Hopefully they would never let it go that far. There are privacy advocates in the Government after all. If it's just used for ads, I'm not that concerned. Like Bob, I have come across some good deals through web ads that I wouldn't have known about otherwise and I also think that sometimes the ads are better than the page they're on ;D. There are definitely possible implications of more highly targeted tracking of web usage though.
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Hi forum friends,
But as with every technology there could also be tremendous benefits of this technology. The ISP has not always to take sides with "the robber barons" but could also use this to make the Internet a more secure place and a better user experience. Just imagine we have a machine in the City of London that is being abused to attack scroogle search servers through malvertisement actions, and that machine is not longer owned any by the legitimate user/owner thereof and has been now zombied by fraudulent malcreants that hacked/exploited the browser of that machine's user. Now with the use of the new technology the ISP could inform the legit user of that machine he could/should do something about his machine being part of a malicious bot net. Not only the user will benefit (do not know he is really interested, but he better should be), Google is glad because it does not any longer loose gigantic sums of revenue out to malvertisers and SEO scammers/leechers/fraudsters and the owner of the Scroogle servers would be glad because he does not have to block full IP ranges to avoid abuse or even worse (denial of service with his 6 servers compared to the Google park). So where is the technology being used for is our big question, dear forum friends, because the white knights in shining armor sure know what to do, take the bad apples out rather than harass/restrict the average user. I know that ISPs do positive things, I once was warned about a ping-sweep that took place (UK site webmasters can be quite easily feel irritated) and one would get a warning, we could establish the source of it and everything was OK. Positive feeling both for those that offer the service and a very positive user experience. Because sometime one is blocked from a particular service because someone in the same IP range did mischief and you have to mail, explain the situation and ask if they could unblock for your particular address. Now with the new technology this all could be much easier, better filtering, better targeting, but as I said it is all about for what it will be implemented - for good or for bad?
polonus
p
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...now they target your zip code, so they pinpoint you on what side of the street you live ....
pol
While you use the term "zip code", which I thought was specific to the U.S., I get the impression you're doing so in a generic sense to cover any country's postal-code system. And it would seem that your system is similar to ours here in Canada, which (in cities, at least) defines much tighter areas than US zip codes, typically one side of one block. Back when I lived in NYC, a zip code typically covered 2 or 3 square miles within the city.
Here, quite typically a relatively large office or apartment building will have its own unique postal code. The building I'm in used to be a large-ish public school, converted to apartments maybe 20 years ago, and has its own postal code ... if I'm ordering something online, particularly government forms, and the first thing they ask for is postal code, then they've already got my street address from that and just need the apartment #.
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Hi MikeBCda,
Well what they ask you here when you purchase something in a shop is your Postal Code and house number, and then you have pinpointed the local at his dwelling place, official places (government, health insurance, private banks also, now will ask for ID and citizen service number which can locate a person for all of the territory of the EEC, they ask that even to identify yourself in a telephone conversation, and then at the municipality they have stored prints of four of your digits or five on two hands to be fail safe for your chipped passport, and all these data are stored with a company in France for the time being. This is how the situation is in the Netherlands now. I think this will also arrived now with computers, you have to go deep, deep into the jungle to evade the privacy invaders...there is no way to hide really..
polonus
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Our zip code + 4 brings it right to your house. The first 5 put you in a certain geographic area and the last 4 (if used) actually pinpoint your home.
Here's an example:
Los Lunas, NM 87031
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The +4 does not pinpoint your house. It only selects an area within the larger zip code area. It's like a block or so in most cases. You are not required to use the last 4 numbers and most people don't
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Hi Dch48,
That is always with questions asked, you do not have to give the shopkeeper that information, probably you won't get that free bonus shampoo then, and if you hand him or her a shopping card you give the person all that information encoded for free (and that can be abused, exploited, hacked, profiled as well), you get 25% off when you buy three products, he gets all your shopping data.
But don't think you are not transparent, if there is a football match being held and you sit there stadium officials will know for sure how many Jones are attending, and they don't even have to have their mobile phones switched on. You have to go back to the days of "cart and dog trade" not to spread an endless digital diarrhea, there is nowhere to hide...
polonus
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there is nowhere to hide...
I stopped hiding the minute Alice found me..... ;D ;D
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there is nowhere to hide...
I was gonna say too,yeah Polonus...may be time for a little break from the dark side of the web ;D
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Hi Dch48,
That is always with questions asked, you do not have to give the shopkeeper that information, probably you won't get that free bonus shampoo then, and if you hand him or her a shopping card you give the person all that information encoded for free (and that can be abused, exploited, hacked, profiled as well), you get 25% off when you buy three products, he gets all your shopping data.
But don't think you are not transparent, if there is a football match being held and you sit there stadium officials will know for sure how many Jones are attending, and they don't even have to have their mobile phones switched on. You have to go back to the days of "cart and dog trade" not to spread an endless digital diarrhea, there is nowhere to hide...
polonus
Shopping card? I think you mean a credit card. What we call shopping cards here are totally different. You don't give any information at all when buying or using one. They're just prepaid cards only good at the store that issues them and are often given as gifts. They're as anonymous as cash, even when used on the net. I've never owned or even used a mobile phone so I'm safe there ;D.
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Shopping card?
Usually called a reward card. You use them to get rewards for shopping at a certain store.
The one I use at Smith's gets me a 15 cent discount per gallon on my gas purchases after spending $100.00
You do give them a certain amount of information when applying for that card.
Dch48.
What you're talking about is called a prepaid credit card. :)
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Shopping card?
Usually called a reward card. You use them to get rewards for shopping at a certain store.
The one I use at Smith's gets me a 15 cent discount per gallon on my gas purchases after spending $100.00
You do give them a certain amount of information when applying for that card.
Dch48.
What you're talking about is called a prepaid credit card. :)
No, they are called shopping cards at stores like Walmart and Best Buy and have nothing to do with rewards. They are displayed on racks and you buy them without giving any information other than how much money you want on them. There is no application procedure at all. They use a card identification number prerecorded on the magnetic strip and the amount of money available is also recorded there. No other information of any kind is used. The purchase and usage of them is totally anonymous and as I said, they are very often given as gifts. When the money is used you can put more on but usually the cards get thrown away at that point.
A prepaid credit card is a different animal altogether. They are issued by the major credit card companies and are not anonymous.
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I'll leave you to your interpretation. I'm sure Polonus will give us his. ;D
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I'll leave you to your interpretation. I'm sure Polonus will give us his. ;D
I worked in Walmart for 5 years and sold and purchased many of their Shopping Cards so it is not a matter of interpretation. I'm just thinking that in Europe they may use the term shopping card for what we call a credit card.
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It sounded to me like pol is talking about the loyalty cards used by many grocery stores and other merchants. The card itself doesn't have any money value associated with it like a credit card or prepaid card. The merchant gives a discount on some of the purchases made. The loyalty card is presented and scanned at the time of the purchase. The information on the card connects the shopper with a database which keeps a record of all his/her purchases.
Edit: I see Bob already said pretty much the same thing. It seems unambiguous if you read pol's post carefully.
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Hi my good friends from the other side of the Atlantic,
What I meant was a kind of card you get when you come to a big shopping center for the first time (you have to fill in name, full address), here the best known is called a "bonus card", so if it is a big grocery store you have bonuses on certain products only if you can show that card when paying. Bonuses vary every week, sometimes you get tomatoes with 50% off, then you get detergents two for the price of one, it is just as you say to bind certain customers to a particular shop, so a "loyalty card" could also be a good term for it, but this is the European situation, I do not know how it is in the States, but I am aware you have set this trend from the start,
pol
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Yes there are those "loyalty cards" as well. Price Chopper has one. I just wasn't sure what Polonus meant but he just clarified it. Those cards are not anonymous here either. They have your name and address and I'm sure they use the information and purchase histories to tailor their advertised specials and things like that.
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I do not know how it is in the States, but I am aware you have set this trend from the start
Same here as you describe. pol. They go by many different names, including "loyalty" and "rewards". The trick is to give them phony information when you register for the card. 8)
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I do not know how it is in the States, but I am aware you have set this trend from the start
Same here as you describe. pol. They go by many different names, including "loyalty" and "rewards". The trick is to give them phony information when you register for the card. 8)
I'm sure they're more interested in the purchase history of the card than they are in your personal information but that would be a good trick ;D.
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The trick is to give them phony information when you register for the card.
Why? For me honesty has always been the best policy. :)
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Hi bob3160,
In most cases I agree with you there, but what if you hand your card to those that has forgotten his or hers, so they could get their bonus as well, it then is your card and they are fraudulent...You can make out as many cards as you like..
Well there were certainly those that made up phony credentials making an online account, so they could not be traced that easy and it is rarely checked, so use your nick for a surname (whenever it is in the phonebook), a street name from thedays of the GDR, a non-existing country now, I know f.ravia (once resource engineer, and searchlore guru, well may his soul rest in peace) always taught his adepts to do so to thwart off the leechers, and certain extensions that fed google with bogus search queries do the same, as did a generator that flooded the servers of a notorious spammer - the spamoliator (one even begged for mercy to the makers), I would not propagate these methods and have no need for it, but I can imagine that others have another point of view here,
polonus
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The trick is to give them phony information when you register for the card.
Why? For me honesty has always been the best policy. :)
Suit yourself, Bob. Do you mean to say you always give complete and accurate information when registering on any website, including your name, date of birth, mailing address, and anything else they may ask for? :o
Personally, I don't consider it dishonest to give false information to companies that are collecting personal information about me that isn't pertinent to our relationship.
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Hi Alan Baxter,
I agree fully with you there, in such cases we don't need to be honest "until it hurts", especially when the other party in the deal is not that honest either and even want to profit from us without giving something in return,
polonus
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Hi Alan,
Isn't it nice that we don't all have to be the same. It would make for a pretty boring world.
But I'll stick to my believes and you may have your way of looking at things. :)
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Thank you for saying so, Bob. I appreciate your openness. It's been my experience too that honesty is the best policy. One of the reasons I use my real name on the web is to help keep me from saying or doing anything I don't want to be accountable for -- that, and it's easier to remember. :)
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Hi folks,
Same goes for me as well, really, never do anything online that you would not do in real life, it is so much easier, but the hardest part indeed is being honest to yourself,
pol
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I'm just thinking that in Europe they may use the term shopping card for what we call a credit card.
??? where you got that from? ;D
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I'm just thinking that in Europe they may use the term shopping card for what we call a credit card.
??? where you got that from? ;D
Just from the way Polonus mentioned it in his original post mentioning shopping cards. It sounded like he was describing a credit card and what he said could be traced can not be done with what are known as shopping cards here.