Avast WEBforum
Other => General Topics => Topic started by: fredvries on August 05, 2010, 03:05:30 PM
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Well, not personally of course, but someone could acccording to a news item on BBC News entitled: Web attack knows where you live. Read the entire article here (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-10850875).
I wrote a little post on one of my weblogs on how to disable geolocation on Apple Safari, Apple iPhone, Firefox, Flock, Google Chrome, Google Toolbar and Opera.
See here (http://fred-de-vries.blogspot.com/).
Additional entries are very welcome.
[Edit: Updated this first post for additional programs]
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Since I don't have wifi router, being on dial-up, I'm not google's street mapping database. I don't even know if they see my small village as worth their time bothering to drive out there ;D.
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I'm glad someone knows where I am.
I've been lost for years..... ;D ;D
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I'm glad someone knows where I am.
I've been lost for years..... ;D ;D
You too, eh? ;D ;D
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You might not care unless someone uses that information to burgle your house :'(
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(http://www.freewebs.com/raf-ss/Colt%20.45.JPG)
Tell them to come on over. We'll have a western ho down. :)
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First, I am not sure that Geolocation can show your real address. I think it only shows the point where your ISP's servers are situated. In my case it shows cities dozens of miles away from mine.
Second, I live in a block of flats and I don't think that Geolocation can show what floor I am living on.
Third, I am on ADSL connection, not on WiFi.
bob3160
And if they have a bigger gun? :)
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There is more than one flavour of Geo Location tool the ISP IP address based ones are very inaccurate, they can't even get my county right.
The ones being talked about here is that if you have a wifi router, that will have a MAC address/ID. If googles street cars have been round your neighbourhood they have also been detecting wifi hotspots (and having a look at some of your data too if it isn't completely secure) and they have been recording GPS locations based on that hotspot for google maping, etc.
So they can be very accurate in pinpointing you based on that MAC ID/GPS info on the database.
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All as I can say is its a scary world out there and getting scarier by the second
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All as I can say is its a scary world out there and getting scarier by the second
There are a bunch of weirds out there. :o
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I'm glad someone knows where I am.
I've been lost for years..... ;D ;D
Gezzz Bob, stop surfing in your underwear, Don't you know we can all see you?? ;D ;D
I also have a toy incase there's trouble.
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First, I am not sure that Geolocation can show your real address.
It does if you use Gmail. I was surprised one day to find my address next to the email I was reading. Prior to seeing this post, I saw something in another security forum about disabling the Geolocation for my browser, and since, my address no longer appears. Another tool I have on my machine now shows that my IP is "foreign." I use a router without WiFi for the machine I tested this on.
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Update of my list of programs that use geolocation.
Added:
Disabling of geolocation for Opera and Apple Safari.
See here (http://fred-de-vries.blogspot.com/).
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Update of my list of programs that use geolocation.
Added:
Disabling of geolocation for Twitter.
See here (http://fred-de-vries.blogspot.com).
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Well, not personally of course...
So, do you know where I live, or not..?? ;D
asyn
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@asyn: No not personally. But it is a title that caught your attention. True or not?
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@asyn: No not personally. But it is a title that caught your attention. True or not?
True..! ;)
And I found out not to visit Bob or Marc late at night... ;D
asyn
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Gezzz Bob, stop surfing in your underwear, Don't you know we can all see you??
Marc, I don't know who you saw last night but it wasn't me. I never wear any underwear. ;D ;D
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***
TMI, Bob ... TMI ! ;) ;D
(for those who may not know, TMI = too much information)
***
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Update of my list of programs/phones that use geolocation.
Added:
Disabling of geolocation/GPS for Apple iPhone.
See here (http://no-geolocation.blogspot.com).
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Well, not personally of course, but someone could acccording to a news item on BBC News entitled: Web attack knows where you live. Read the entire article here (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-10850875).
]
hi, will that attack work if you're using a proxy or vpn?
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Hi RNfromTH,
In principle yes, but sometimes the ISA Server requires authorization to fulfill the request. Access to the Web Proxy filter is then denied for a Google.com service, and some websites do not allow you to visit from behind/via a proxy. I experienced when I really got to privacy stealth mode with a Mozilla browser on Tor with NoScript and RequestPolicy active Google denied me access because apparently they could not determine I was a human user or an automated process, so I had to fill in several captcha's before I could go on and through that I was identified. Even if you have set geo-location as false (via auto:config) you give out smears and smears of identifiable tracking data which combined will give out much more identifiable info there as geo-location, like here how I was identified by visiting the Norton Safe Web site (with all javascript disabled, all requests denied, and several special ABP block lists active) they have logged me as "user_pref_lang=ENG
_shasta_website_session=BAh7CToPdmlzaXRvcl9pZCIlMmNhZDA4ZTdiM2Y2MWVlMDc5YzQ5YjMxMDc1
YTA0ODA6DGNzcmZfaWQiJTVjNzE5ZTUyMTZmMWI5NzZlMGQ0NDIzZjQxNGNm
ZmVkIgpmbGFzaElDOidBY3Rpb25Db250cm9sbGVyOjpGbGFzaDo6Rmxhc2hI
YXNoewAGOgpAdXNlZHsAOhJlc2xfc2VsZWN0aW9uIgpmYWxzZQ==--ff750296b63940be1c9384d5780a9ce7b645410cand then I went the finjan URL checker I am to be identified like this ASPSESSIONIDAQSCQRRS=LMHGEJHCKCBGMJGOMMIFKGPH Combine all these and you can be read like a book, chapter to verse. Forget it, there is nowhere to hide, and if you on a so-called anonymous proxy, the proxy website have all this info, and also sells it to earn on your clicks and profile, bet the majority of them does,
polonus
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Hi polonus, thanks for the input.I understand nothing of the code you put into your post :P (as I'm sure most people don't)
It was mostly a curiosity type question because I've been recently playing with Tor and also trying a vpn server.
In your opinion which is the most secure...a proxy or a vpn ? thanks tim
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Hi you can try this free service: http://proxpn.com/
But I do not know if you have the avast shields still working a proxy vpn?
With tor the only insecurity is an insecure end-point,
polonus
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Update of my list of programs/phones that use geolocation.
Added:
Disabling of geolocation/GPS for Flock.
See here (http://no-geolocation.blogspot.com).
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Ha... where does GMail store this data? Plus on the GeoLocations if your information is listed is there a clause in their Privacy Policy that allows you to remove it? Maybe it's only in Europe... but still it seems kind of suspicious. That creeps me out on many levels that other people care that much about data-mining. It's amazing how people are looking to flip an extra few tenths of a percentage point in profit per year. I guess that's why they do it I can't really figure out any other reason unless... oh dear. It's like some scary Sci-Fi World Takeover movie! :(
Equally as weird as this http://www.time.com/time/business/article/0,8599,1932803,00.html article I read in TIME a while ago. I don't have a Facebook page but sheesh. I have no idea why that article disturbs me so much.
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@ modati
Plus on the GeoLocations if your information is listed is there a clause in their Privacy Policy that allows you to remove it?
If a setting can be enabled or disabled then it is no problem at all. If you should, for instance, remove the GPS antenna from your phone your warranty might be void.
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Update of my list of programs/phones that use geolocation.
Added:
• Disabling of geolocation/GPS for Google Nexus One.
See here (http://no-geolocation.blogspot.com).
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Update of my list of programs/phones that use geolocation.
Added:
• Disabling of geolocation/GPS for Google Nexus One.
See here (http://no-geolocation.blogspot.com).
I don't understand why you would want to disable a very useful function which may even save
your life from your phone ???
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@ bob3160: It's a choice. Do you want to be tracked by al sorts of advertising companies (because that will happen)? If the answer is 'no' you might want to turn off GPS. And, yes, in case of an emergengy you might want to turn it on again.
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And, yes, in case of an emergengy you might want to turn it on again.
...if you're still able to turn it on ??? ;D :D
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GPS has many more functions than just a tool to be used by Ad companies.
I guess if your paranoid enough, it's something to block.
I"ll leave it on and enjoy all the convenient services GPS makes possible. :)
One function that's definitely a users choice.
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Hi bob3160,
Everybody that is aware not only of the benefits, but also of the disadvantages is paranoid in your opinion. Why is someone saying this? So you have to accept all the blessings of modern technology with never a question asked. That is being short-sighted and makes that one can be manipulated into believing almost anything considering the presentation of the benefits is convincing enough.
GPS is an advantage when you say that ad launchers can specify their ads better in relation to your geo-location, it is a big disadvantage for instance when you have to ponder on a way to watch hulu from any location outside of the United States of America, and there the use of it is serving conservative, restrictive and user-unfriendly interests.
So yes you can say GPS is a blessing for this and that and such and so, but also a big disadvantage if you are in the wrong geo-location, so it is in a sense discriminative, and in several cases it is used for this purpose. So there I have to disagree with you without being paranoid but strictly on practical grounds. Furthermore we can discuss whether geo-location was brought in to benefit the browser user or to mainly help vested interests, when I read a message I am "geographically challenged" I do not like that. Why I have to resort to certain intricate methods to circumvent? http://lifehacker.com/5583515/access-hulu-from-outside-the-us-without-a-proxy-server
I have to change my headers to pose being a USA browser, and maybe hulu finds another way to throw another "geographically challenged" message at me as I wonder if they would really appreciate this trick. So what hulu-viewer outside the US needs geo-location? I think I have proven my point here,
polonus
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I think I have proven my point here
Yes you have, to your satisfaction.
I have my own way of looking at ABS and feel it's a blessing not a hindrance.
As I said in my last post, users choice.
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Just getting back to what was said earlier: I also rarely wear underwear,
brgds
anothermack
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Hi anothermack,
I know not how this can be related to GPS, and to bob3160, when you are out in the wilderness GPS is a true blessing,
polonus
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A lot of the geo-specific services are that way because of a lot of reasons. I don't think Hulu wants people in other countries viewing their media for legal reasons. They don't have international streaming rights for the content on the site. Same goes with a lot of other media content. It's that way for a very good reason but everybody loves free stuff no matter what!
http://www.hulu.com/support/article/178063
If it were up to me... I just want to "live off the grid" as much as possible. Surfing the net can be done with a degree of anonymity and without disclosing personal data. The whole deal with companies spamming signal broadcasts to try to data-mine personal data etc. is a bit sketchy to me. Having GPS on in the wilderness is a lot different than a huge van/can apparatus driving by your house and spamming you with signal to see what you are up to and who you are!
So using the GPS in the wilderness is a bonus but buy a separate device for it. There are a lot of devices made solely for being found in the middle of the frozen tundra :P. They can also be turned off (GPS disabled) while not in use. These special devices have an very long battery life. Finding where someone lives based on a public domain service from a private corporation and being found in the wildness are two different things. It's like if you buy consumer electronics with GPS in them, not with the intention of being found in the wilderness, you run the risk of having lower amounts of privacy. Seems like there should be an option there.
However if you are worried about being hurt or your health conditions getting the best of you at the worst time. You probably don't care people are data-mining your identify and such. So either way I still think all the personal association with the geo-location on these specific devices should be an option and disclosed up front.... err maybe I should read the fine print :D. Maybe not I'm to lazy. To me... I'm not a developer or a electrical engineer by any means. Shouldn't the GPS just turn on when you dial emergency and not disclose personal data, just your location? Then something to display what country you are in not emit any personal information? It seems odd to me that both are intertwined and I can relate to most people's concern about it on here.
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(http://www.freewebs.com/raf-ss/Colt%20.45.JPG)
Tell them to come on over. We'll have a western ho down. :)
Hell yeah! ;D
I prefer a bigger gun, but that's good enough for anyone really. ;D
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Hi Modati,
Really appreciate your realistic view on the matter, you are certainly knowing what you're on about. I think a lot of common users do not fully realize in what kind of Big Brother society they wake up every morning. Just scary to know that when you have your mobile phone on you (it is turned off) and you visit the stadium authorities know exactly how many with the same name as you are there in that stadium, you can claim later that it was your brother in law you handed the phone out to for the occasion, but even that can be easily verified to be not true. Now combine that with all the other data smears you leave behind on terminals, machines, cash desks, credit verification, together with all the private data that can come automatically coupled and your portrait on street camera's and even your tone of voice analyzed for compliance (UK situation), you really have nowhere to hide and have become fully and utterly transparent, you only need to be chipped to be "fully owned" for serfdom by Big Brother (it is already in your passport, which data are coupled with your medication data, four of your digits, and sometimes five, and an IT man with the right authorization can have your profile in no time and even scan it out from a couple of metres while your body scan pictures are stored for whatever reason by a private outsource company, on the Internet similar business even more advanced and hidden and loopholed. You do not catch the baddies with all these measures (it was not meant to do so) because they take their precautionary measures (an' leave their phone at home or start to communicate with pigeons and blinking mirrors again), and cybercrime have found places where they are tolerated and nobody reacts to any abuse anyway. So why all the tracking, I think to have you in a situation where only Mao and other Big Rudder men could dream of. Some aspects are good when they are used for good, many aspects are bad where they can be used to be abused and restrictive of freedom and choice,
polonus
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A lot of the geo-specific services are that way because of a lot of reasons. I don't think Hulu wants people in other countries viewing their media for legal reasons. They don't have international streaming rights for the content on the site. Same goes with a lot of other media content. It's that way for a very good reason but everybody loves free stuff no matter what!
http://www.hulu.com/support/article/178063
What I seeInternational (Outside USA)
Hulu is a U.S.-only service at this time. Unfortunately, we don't have international streaming rights for our content. Our intention is to make Hulu's growing content lineup available worldwide as quickly as possible. This requires working with the content owners to clear the rights for each show or film in each specific region. It's a long-term project. We don't have a definite timeline, but we'll continue to work to make it happen.
I don't have a mobile phone so I don't worry.
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Polonus it is scary I agree. You walk into a store, you are instantly scanned and greeted with advertisements and offers. Imagine getting a speeding ticket speeding by a stoplight because of a chip in your car. I wouldn't even be surprised if that is already happening (not based on pictures just signals). There doesn't even need to be humans to cite tickets anymore (look at photos) you can get cited at little cost to them automatically by a machine. Have the ticket, cut, expedited, stamped and sent with no human interaction. For the smallest infractions that are accidents (running stop signs/red lights, going 3-5 KPH over the limit). I doubt it would be as forgiving as a human cop that gives you a warning.
It is only a matter of time before you can walk by a reader in a store, on the road, in the bank or wherever and you are instantly identified. It would make sense if it were to protect us but it only works in that aspect when we dial 911/emergency. What about the 99.9% of the other times it's active and being used like you said? It's data-mining basically nothing more. If they can track you going into stores and log that and know your age/race/etc. It's basically helping them determine a more broad target audience than just submitting surveys/hiring people to take them. It helps marketing and sales aspects of business more than keep us safe. I think it's great when you need it and are hurt and have to call for help. Who would of thought the most secure way to pass messages now is on paper. At least you can burn it after you read it.
It's like you said... it's good sometimes but it's mostly bad. For that .01% of the time you need it, it is there for you helping you out and you have to be forever grateful for that. But what about the 99.9% of the time otherwise? People making money off your good name without your permission as an advertising statistic to help gear towards a more accurate target audience. There really should be a choice in privacy with these elaborate electronics. Most people don't know things like this are possible. If you said it to someone... they would laugh at you like you ere talking about a cheesy Sci-Fi movie/book. That's the ironic part! It's getting pretty close now. If only more people were aware of what the devices they bought were capable of. You are right... you cannot hide anymore unless you hang a few decades behind in technology.
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@ modati: why do you use Windows Live Messenger if you're that worried? >>> all conversations transiting in clear on http ( >>> eavesdropping! :) ), and obviously fully readable on MS servers ;D (there are solutions, but that's off topic here).
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I'm not really sure how to answer that honestly. I'm sure you realize the difference between a casual conversation and what I was talking about. They are two different things really. MSN isn't tied to me personally, my GPS location or anything about me really. I'm sure they could pay to get my identify from my IP address if they wanted to. Then again why would they pay money for data when they could buy a cheap electronic device, go read everybody's signal and mine all that data for one flat fee?
I just don't worry about internet conversations. Detering someone from using MSN per plain text protocols (TCP) would be like deterring someone from using e-mail per plain text protocols (SMTP/POP3). It's like saying... OH MY GOD! People can read these posts in plain text! *looks around for someone over my shoulder* *wipes forehead* phew... nobody there! Hehe. So much of the internet is plain text but that wasn't the emphasis of the thingy dingy to begin with.
Just don't divulge any sensitive information and you are fine. Your information is already accessible many other ways that have existed long before GPS location devices/scanning that we are talking about.
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MSN isn't tied to me personally
you must be kidding :D >>> and again, it's not just readable on MS servers, it's also by your ISP as it's transmitted in clear, while a few email solutions, still readable on the providers' servers, are transmitted through ssl.
I mean you can't be serious, you're talking "big brother" effects on your daily life and you don't mind using internet protocols and messenger clients (yes, yahoo and aim too...) that are completely insecure, and freakin' adware.
How come that someone as "aware" as you are isn't using safer solutions ??? ;D
ps: your ISP knows where you live right? ;)
I mean it's the same person writing this?
I just don't worry about internet conversations. Detering someone from using MSN per plain text protocols (TCP) would be like deterring someone from using e-mail per plain text protocols (SMTP/POP3). It's like saying... OH MY GOD! People can read these posts in plain text! *looks around for someone over my shoulder* *wipes forehead* phew... nobody there! Hehe. So much of the internet is plain text but that wasn't the emphasis of the thingy dingy to begin with.
and that? :D
It is only a matter of time before you can walk by a reader in a store, on the road, in the bank or wherever and you are instantly identified. It would make sense if it were to protect us but it only works in that aspect when we dial 911/emergency. What about the 99.9% of the other times it's active and being used like you said? It's data-mining basically nothing more. If they can track you going into stores and log that and know your age/race/etc. It's basically helping them determine a more broad target audience than just submitting surveys/hiring people to take them. It helps marketing and sales aspects of business more than keep us safe. I think it's great when you need it and are hurt and have to call for help. Who would of thought the most secure way to pass messages now is on paper. At least you can burn it after you read it.
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Uhm... did you read the rest of my post? I clearly said they could pay/get it by my IP address. I appreciate the knowledge you are trying to drop on me but please read first. I don't get why you are so adamant on trying to prove me wrong based on another aspect of how your data is kept. Like I also said in my previous post there are other ways to get your personal data... before all of this even existed. The geo-location via scanner aspect is completely different than any traditional method available. Which is why the concern is displayed. Sheesh. I don't use the software that they provide sorry. I use Trillian or did you miss that from the post you are referencing that I said I used MSN? :)
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Uhm... did you read the rest of my post? I clearly said they could pay to get it my IP address. I appreciate the knowledge you are trying to drop on me but please read first. I don't get why you are so adamant on trying to prove me wrong based on another aspect of how your data is kept. Like I also said in my previous post there are other ways to get your personal data... before all of this even existed.
I don't use the software that they provide sorry. I use Trillian or did you miss that from the post you are referencing that I said I used MSN? :)
I edited my last post...
okay, trillian won't make any difference, unless you use OTR which you probably don't and never heard of. But hey, as long as you don't transmit sensitive info that's alright. Be careful when you're going to the supermarket, and don't worry about getting screwed on the net ;)
ps: only reason you're running Trillian is because it's multi-protocol, not for security concerns that you don't have anyway. I hate chatting, and that's what you do, you're chatting. Bye ;)
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TA Logos at ... whatever you were trying to do. I appreciate you demeaning me and all. It was good fun :).
Quips and puns make take up space but internet trolls never bug me :P
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TA Logos at ... whatever you were trying to do. I appreciate you demeaning me and all. It was good fun :).
Quips and puns make take up space but internet trolls never bug me :P
wow internet trolls...that must be something you know about finally ;D I mean man you're asking for it. First your throwing a pseudo and cheap paranoid description of your daily life, and then you're telling us that Internet might spy but it doesn't matter, you're cool, not like the paranoid rest ;D may be time to stop taking those pills, or change the brand ???
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Basic Simple fact you can't hide on the internet.
GPS is just another tool. Like all tools, it also has a double edge.
Why are there so many paranoid people in this world or, maybe it's because this is a security related forum that makes
the mix a little lopsided >> ??? ;D ;D
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yeah there are extremes, on all sides:
1 those who won't feel the need to protect their systems at all
2 those paranoid about threats they're very unlikely to ever experience ;D
3 those who worry about being worried :D hiding their face behind their hand when passing by a street cam
1 & 3 are sometimes the same it seems :) As to #2, it's sometimes a hobby ;D
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Logos... for a mature elderly fellow you are pretty confrontational. What is the deal with putting me "in my place?" I am not really paranoid I just think it's kind of odd the lengths private corporations are willing to go for advertising and marketing. Aside from the means already taken. It's kind of scary how obsessed people are with profit. As well as potential means law enforcement could take to giving citations. I really don't appreciate being treated as such when just having a casual conversation. It's just a conversation about the potential something could be taken to. If you really read that as me being "worried" or "paranoid" and that is your idea of "helping" me. You have a really bad way of helping, it's more like pushing people away. This board is turning into every other one I've visited. People care more about being right, in their own mind, and putting people in their place than getting along and talking with others. Again... I don't really get why you are constantly demeaning me. I'm new to this forum and if you want new and repeat visitors you probably should treat people a bit better. In the few days I've frequented these forums I've seen a good bit of arrogance. Why are you implying I'm taking pills because I have an opinion you can't seem to grasp because you refuse to see things other than how you want? Would it really make you feel better if I had psychological problems that warranted taking pills and you were harassing me over it? Seriously... how immature can you get.
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...and that is your idea of "helping" me
I never said I wanted to help you ;D
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It's amazing to get trolled here. I never thought it would happen... usually it's by 15 year-old people.
Edit: Seriously Logos... if you don't care about what I'm actually talking about why do you bother responding? It's getting really old.
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Hi folks,
Stay on topic, please and do not change the discussion for something else. A side remark about "being paranoid" has been taken out of proportion. There is a big difference between being security aware, security savvy and paranoid. A paranoid is not knowing what is coming at him, her, it. It could be the shadow of a shrub on a dark night that looks like a werewolf, and one cries 'werewolf'.
The security aware also does not know exactly, but he is aware of some possibilities that could be threatening security, and the security savvy knows what technological measures are being taken. Here in this last case for instance to make it impossible almost for a person to hide from tracking, so one can be traced for whatever reason right away. In the case of ad-launching, marketing, etc. this is not threatening to the person, only a minor nuisance, and can be beneficial even, but being used to exactly know where dissidents are could be a life-threatening technique. What an advantage is geo-location in the hands of a system that wants it to neutralize its adversaries? So you must think out the whole scale of possibilities for what it is being used for and can be used for, and for what it is already being used very subtly, and hordes of people do not even know about these aspects or can't be bothered to think about it. Those who give a sketch of what it all could lead to and the possible abuse, are not to be called paranoid or fear-mongering or old-fashioned etc. etc., they are not telling about blind panic, they are pointing about unwelcome developments that "could materialize". And while you are "the frog in the hot tub" then and you do not jump out while the temperature is getting up very, very gently it could fry your hind legs without you even knowing that it would hurt,
polonus
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Stay on topic
Thanks Polonus. And that's exactly the reason why I atarted a new topic that should deal exclusively with geolocation and how to disable it on programs and phones.
See here (http://forum.avast.com/index.php?topic=62745.0).
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Stay on topic
Thanks Polonus. And that's exactly the reason why I atarted a new topic that should deal exclusively with geolocation and how to disable it on programs and phones.
See here (http://forum.avast.com/index.php?topic=62745.0).
I'm glad you did that. This way we have a serious post just for the removal for those that feel it's an invasion of privacy.
The fact still remains, that there are many of us who don't feel that way and think that GPS is a great tool if properly used.
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yes, of course it's a great tool. And those worried about being spied should remember that unless a judge asked for it, i.e. allowed the cops to do it (spy you) it's not gonna happen. That's the legislation in the EU and the US too. Same like with Internet browsing and getting your ISP communicate your name and address (corresponding to IP and time); all these things need legal procedures to be done, so there's no reason to worry for a majority.
edit: just as an example, there's a new law against piracy in France. And ISPs are currently fighting with the administration to get a refund every time they will have to communicate the name and address of someone (through an IP&time search). Why? because that costs the ISP money >>> about 8 Euros each time. So they're not gonna do it randomly everyday etc...