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Consumer Products => Avast Free Antivirus / Premium Security (legacy Pro Antivirus, Internet Security, Premier) => Topic started by: ady4um on May 20, 2011, 03:45:02 AM

Title: program update tray notification
Post by: ady4um on May 20, 2011, 03:45:02 AM
This a "clean" resume of several recent posts/topics about program updates tray notifications.

Since there are several topics, and one too-long-to-read topic with too many "off-topic" comments, I decided to quote here the most relevant comments.

If anyone have a RELEVANT report, experience, test... please contribute.

Please, please, for more general, somehow off-topic comments that have "some" relation to this TRAY NOTIFICATIONS issue (but that is not DIRECTLY ON TOPIC), please use the "dirty" topic (keep reading), or start a new topic.

If AVAST TEAM could read this post and continue with relevant contributions, I think several millions of users will benefit from resolving this issue(s).


Automatic program update not working:
http://forum.avast.com/index.php?topic=76772.0 (http://forum.avast.com/index.php?topic=76772.0)

This following topic seems to be a similar problem, but the OP was not so clear, and he resolved the problem by uninstalling, which is not a valid solution for those "simple" users not even knowing about the issue.
http://forum.avast.com/index.php?topic=77361.0 (http://forum.avast.com/index.php?topic=77361.0)

Another (auto)update notifications problem
http://forum.avast.com/index.php?topic=77817.0 (http://forum.avast.com/index.php?topic=77817.0)

Another example:
http://forum.avast.com/index.php?topic=78350.0 (http://forum.avast.com/index.php?topic=78350.0)

My own "dirty and trashed" "update notifications are gone":
http://forum.avast.com/index.php?topic=76977.0 (http://forum.avast.com/index.php?topic=76977.0)

From my "dirty and trashed" topic, I am quoting here the relevant info:

Quote from: ady4um
Until version 5.0.5xx or 5.0.6xx, all the screen notifications for program updates were displayed within the day of release, or the day after. Let's say, just to give some spare, that it took a whole week.
Now users are saying that for them is still the same, and others are saying I should expect months, while the release is already official and declared stable. I'm also able to see the notification of a new version being available if I open the full UI.

Quote from: Dch48
I have never seen a pop-up and to be honest, didn't know that the program even did that.

Quote from: sandeep108
I also do not ever remember seeing the pop-up program update notification in recent times. Earlier, it regularly used to pop-up whenever a program update release was available. Only when one opens the GUI, one sees that a new program update is available. This is also happening on a new installation of avast! So probably a reinstall either would not fix it.
Since I follow the forums and am aware of new program updates, I check the GUI and then update. And yes therefore I sympathise with the OP as if I was not following the forums and had no problems, I may not open the GUI for weeks. And not realise that a program update was available. When the notification is there in the GUI, there ought to be no reason for the pop-up not happening.
I feel that a working program update notification pop-up is important and that too with a update now / remind later button. Or it can pop-up say once a week, till updated.

Quote from: Tech
Although I understand and know the program update scheme, I also think it is NOT working as the user expects. A lot of programs asks for update daily. I know avast has million of users... But also has Microsoft
Why should we wait weeks to get a program update popup?

Quote from: Bleton
I can confirm the issue with the missing pop-up notifications for new official (not beta) versions of Avast! on several PC's and laptops (all those that I'm working with myself or for customers). The new updates are only available manually on selecting Update -> Program, there seems to be no notification anymore as it used to be. All of these machines are set to "Ask when update is available". The update of the database works fine on all of them.
I didn't wait with the program updates for a couple of months, so I can't judge if a notification would have popped up after many weeks after the release, but notifications were regularly displayed a year ago or so. I'm not quite sure when this started, but it must be a few months now.

Quote from: Tech
Even when it is set to automatic, the program does not update... unless I need to wait that much... Meanwhile, the virus definitions are updated, no problem.
Something is different in avast behavior...

Here is one example of tray notifications working from beta to stable:
Quote from: Zyndstoff (aka Steven Gail)
Yesterday I was doing some other stuff on a friends PC when all of a sudden the "New program version available" pop up appeared.
He had the 6.0.1044 free installed and the pop up for 6.0.1091 showed yesterday.
So my conclusion: it works (for v6 at least), but it may take a very long time...

Quote from: Jack 1000
Just got the Program Update pop-up in the System Tray about the latest version, and updated through the GUI.  All is well!  Thank you Avast! Let's make sure to keep up this process.

Quote from: bob3160
I'm still waiting for my version of AIS to alert me.
I can see from the UI that a new version is available but haven't yet
seen an alert.
Will see if it alerts me in the morning after I reboot this system.

Quote from: bob3160
I was notified this morning by email from Cnet.com since avast! is on my watch list.
Still no notice from avast! itself and the show last pop up is grayed out.
Title: Re: program update tray notification
Post by: ady4um on May 20, 2011, 03:45:59 AM

This post is longer than usual, because I am reporting back all my findings, so maybe all the tray notification issues can be resolved.

Since my latest post in this topic several days ago, I've been testing several conditions in relation to program update tray notifications.

First, as I already commented before, the program update tray notifications are currently being displayed, which is already good news.

About whether they are displayed more than once, my current experience is that they are displayed according to the same rules that the database updates are subject to. To be more clear, I'll give here one of those rules, as example.

Normally, Avast checks whether there are new database updates according to the first time it gets connected to the Internet after booting, and then it repeats this check in a fixed differential time (every 4 hours is the current default, if I'm not mistaken). Avast then displays a database update tray notification, but only in the case where there is an actual database update (at least, this is the default).

So, according to the above described defaults, the PROGRAM update tray notifications are displayed every 4 hours, until the user accepts to perform the program update. In this situation, the program update tray notification appears every time, no matter whether the database is actually updated or not. This *is* the expected correct default behaviour of the program update tray notifications 8).

Last year, this behaviour was the same as the above described, until my program update tray notifications were not showing up AT ALL, until several days ago, when they reappeared.

BUT (there "must" be a "but" :) ), the DATABASE update tray notifications are currently NOT being displayed. To clarify, I'll take again the above example.

For "some" of the update' checkings of Avast (those every 4 hours), the database *is* indeed updated, and for some, there is no new database to update. This is naturally expected. Last year, when

_ there was a new program update available; and,
_ the database was just updated,

then 2 tray notifications were displayed simultaneously; one for the usual database update, and one for the program update availability.

Currently, the tray notification for the new program update availability is indeed being displayed every 4 hours, but the database tray notification is NOT being displayed ??? ; no matter whether there was only a *check*, or an actual database was effectively updated.

I also changed my settings back to what they were before, with 2 shields in "off" state, and the Status Bar not monitoring those same 2 shields. I changed back those settings to my original preferences only after testing the above described behaviours with the defaults.

After changing my settings, all the above described behaviours were still the same 8). I tested booting behaviours, connecting to the Internet behaviours and frequency of updates' checks. I found no difference.

Whether the program update tray notifications will continue "for ever", or whether they will disappear after some time (say, 2 weeks after the first notification, or after the official first availability), or whether they disappear after some "number of notifications", is not part of my testings. For now, they are indeed showing up.

To me, it is not YET clear, if the database updates tray notifications will appear in some future stable release together with the program update tray notifications, as they used to be displayed last year. Currently, in the context of tray notifications only and before performing the program update, there is no noticeable difference if an actual database was updated, or only the check was ran and there is no new database update.

The second issue still not resolved is if:

_ the shields settings (on/off); or,
_ the partial disabled Status Bar monitoring; or,
_ the status of "Summary -> Current Status -> Real-time shields:" being "off" (as if "ALL" the shields were "off"); or,
_ any other setting (in Avast program or at the severs side); or,
_ any of the above possible combinations;

are somehow interfering / influencing / changing the tray notifications behaviour.

Yes, I tested some of the possibilities. But the first time, in months, that the program update tray notification was displayed, was coincidentally after a couple of days I resetted my shield' settings as default.

So, to resume my recent observations posted in this post:

_ The program update tray notifications are being timely displayed until I'll accept to actually update (which I haven't done YET);

_ I don't know if for the next stable release, the program update tray notification(s) will be displayed again as normal/expected, while I'll be using non-default shields' settings;

_ No yellow exclamation mark is being displayed over the tray icon as DavidR suggested it should be until I accept the program update (I'm not saying I want the exclamation mark, or that I was actually expecting it, but that *IS* indeed the current default setting as he pointed out);

_ Until I decide to actually apply the new program update, only the program update tray notification is being displayed for every update check; meaning that the database update tray notification is not being displayed when an actual database is indeed being updated.

Is like if the previous *database* update tray notification that was being displayed "alone" during the last few months, was interchanged / replaced by the *program* update tray notification being displayed "alone" now, at least until I finally decide I'll apply the program update (and I'll still have to see/test what happens then).

Just to be sure, I haven't applied the program update yet, so to give an additional opportunity to receive suggestions and/or feedback here to keep testing before updating, and to give some more time to Avast Team and to the Avast Servers to (maybe and hopefully):

_ display BOTH tray notifications when they BOTH should;
_ display only the program update tray notification when only *that* corresponds;
_ display only the database update tray notification after applying the program update and when a database update would be preformed;
_ and no tray notification should be displayed at all when only an update check is performed but not database and no program updates were found.

Of course, those are expected behaviours according to the default "update" settings.
Title: Re: program update tray notification
Post by: ady4um on May 20, 2011, 03:46:28 AM
Quote from: bob3160
I have to date received 2 notifications of an update.
1. Desktop running Windows 7 Ultimate 32 bit (using avast! IS)
1. Netbook running the same operating system. (using avast! Free)

I also have another desktop and a Notebook with the same OS
that never received any program update notifications. (using avast! Free)

The settings on all 4 machine are identical (default)

Quote from: craigb
I also have not had any program update notification's on all three of my systems here (2x win7 64 and xp32 and i was updating my brothers computer on monday which was still running 6.0.1000 because he had not recieved any popups about the program update either.

Quote from: sandeep108
Well I did get an update notification (blue box) on an XP installation that had not been used for some days. It also had a link "update now" which opened up the GUI and started the program update. So I guess v6 does have it working. Avast! must be delaying the notification to balance out the server loads.

I also got the program update tray notification at the same time as the definition update notification, green was on top, blue below.

In reference to the situation where both tray notifications are displayed simultaneously in a "column":
Quote from: Jack 1000
It would just be kind of fun to see an update situation that I have not seen in Avast EVER!

From the several situations described here, I think that Avast Team should recheck their severs, IMHO.

Last year I was receiving both tray notifications. Then I only received database tray notifications. Now I only receive program tray notifications (I guess, until I decide to actually apply the program update).

Other users are reporting in this topic different behaviours, during those same periods of time and using several different stable releases.

Currently, while I am receiving one of the tray notifications since several days ago, others are receiving both of them (as I used to, until last year); other users are not receiving program notifications during long periods of time and during several stable releases (as I was, until several days ago), and other users have never seen both tray notifications simultaneously.

All these different behaviours are being seen using several different stable releases, but until now (with some few reports), we can't identify some specific common denominator.

My first conclusion (no real probe though) would be that the stable version being used is not the main factor for these strange behaviours. It seems that the new release that users are trying to update to, or they are suppose to update to, is also not the main factor in this context either.

It seems the different behaviours might be related to different servers (hardware and software combinations).

We should wait some additional days though, because the CURRENT differences might be caused by the spreading of the program update in some reasonable period of time, so to avoid servers' crashing. But, the more permanent and/or older strange behaviours can't be explained by the distribution cycle.

If we wait 1 or 2 additional weeks, and the tray notifications situation would not be more stable between different users, then we might be able to conclude that something is not running as it should somewhere in some of all Avast' servers.

Once again, I have no real proof. Those first conclusions might end up being wrong. I am only basing them on the current reports of different behaviours and different experiences.

We might find out that the problem is related, for example, to the specific OS (XP, Vista, Seven) or "edition" (Basic, Home, Professional, x86 - 32 bits, x64/amd64 - 64 bits).

According to the current reports, the issue is, apparently, NOT related to a specific Avast build number, nor to a specific Avast "edition" (Free, Pro, AIS...).

If users keep updating and reporting their experiences here in this topic, we might be able to help Avast Team to find out the problem, resolve it, and avoid it in the future.

If someone can think of additional tests that have not been reported yet, I am open to suggestions, before I decide to perform the program update.

So, please keep reporting changes. A user that sees either the same behaviour, or a different behaviour, from those described here by several different users, in relation to tray notifications while being around the period of time that we should expect a new stable program update availability tray notification, is VERY welcome and is needed.

Not many frequent forum users actually wait for those program update tray notifications. Instead, they update manually when they already know there is an available program update. So each user's experience reported here can count so to help resolve this.


Quote from: ady4um
Besides the program update tray notifications, we now know that there are some inconsistencies around this issue. As already explained, some users are seeing 2 tray notifications simultaneously, some 1, some the other, some none, and some users are waiting for automatic program update (instead of the default "ask") and that's NOT happening either.

Should I mention also the yellow exclamation mark that DavidR says it should be there, but never shows up? (Once again, *I* personally don't need it and don't even want it, but, should it be there or not?)


Still, the 2 months cycle does NOT answer all the inconsistencies.


@AVAST TEAM, it is time (after several months of inconsistencies in this matter) that YOU double check this issue , with or without polls/stickies/topics/bug tickets.


The inconsistencies are (once again ??? ) that, simultaneously, the MAIN GUI already knows about the update, but:

_ Some users can see both, database and program updates tray notification;
_ Some users have never seen both tray notifications simultaneously;
_ Some users only see the program update tray notifications, until they apply the program update, so only *then* they can see again the database update tray notifications;
_ Some users never see the PROGRAM update tray notifications, but only the database update tray notifications.

All these are discrepancies (all of them using default settings, "ask"), and other users are also reporting that the automatic program update is not working either.

The last option of the "ask" settings, and the "automatic program update" are affecting users that have no idea at all that there are program updates available.
Title: Re: program update tray notification
Post by: CraigB on May 20, 2011, 05:06:33 AM
I believe this topic has already been discussed and answered and the length of the posts were brought up with you as well.
Title: Re: program update tray notification
Post by: SafeSurf on May 20, 2011, 09:37:53 AM
In addition, Vlk has already commented on this issue in several of these threads.  I don't think we need to open another thread summarizing the same issue IMO.  Thank you. 

The Avast Team does read the forum...that is why Vlk made the comment!
Title: Re: program update tray notification
Post by: ady4um on May 20, 2011, 10:08:08 AM
The only comment from Vlk was that by 2011JUL11 all the users should receive an update notification, which says nothing about the differences between what was going on last year (timely updates) and what was happening for several months (no program updates tray notifications). Read the above quotes, please.

The date Vlk mentioned does NOT explain the differences that several users are reporting NOW about the program update tray notifications' behaviour while having the same settings and while they already receive some program update notification. Read please the above quotes.

Instead of reading more than 100 posts with many of them being OT in several disconnected topics, I gathered the relevant ones so people can READ and CONTRIBUTE.

If there is no contribution, well then. At least, please don't trash this topic with posts that have no useful contribution.
Title: Re: program update tray notification
Post by: SafeSurf on May 20, 2011, 10:17:53 AM
I mean no disrespect and am not trashing the topic.  I am however pointing out that there has been one thread already closed on this subject, and another long one currently open in which you have a senior Avast Team member (Igor) actively involved and Vlk made a statement: http://forum.avast.com/index.php?topic=76977.msg647128#msg647128 (http://forum.avast.com/index.php?topic=76977.msg647128#msg647128) - scroll down for Vlk's comments.

Title: Re: program update tray notification
Post by: igor on May 20, 2011, 10:47:26 AM
I'll just repeat what I already suggested in the other threads... and I guess that's all I have to say.
No matter how much I check the quotes, I don't see any "inconsistencies". Perhaps it's because of a different understanding on how the system works, but I see nothing wrong here. OK, maybe it doesn't work as the user expects, but it works as the authors wanted it to.
Since the spread, and the subsequent notifications, are basically random - it is supposed to, and it does behave differently on every computer - looking for a "system" is pointless.
Title: Re: program update tray notification
Post by: ady4um on May 20, 2011, 11:20:33 AM
@Igor, let's take a simple example from the quotes above, with the default settings (automatic database update, ask for program update).

1_ I already have the program update tray notification. I have NOT applied the program update yet. When Avast checks for updates and when there *is* a new database update, the database *is* updated, and I see 1 PROGRAM update tray notification (since I haven't applied the program update). The DATABASE update tray notification is not displayed, even when the database was updated.

2_ Other user, with the SAME basic situation/status and settings, sees TWO tray notifications simultaneously. One for the program update (he hasn't applied the program update yet) and one for the just updated database. This behaviour was the normal for me last year, and IS the normal for OTHER users now.

3_ Some users, with this exact same settings and status, have never seen 2 tray notifications (database and program) simultaneously. Not last year, not now.

4_ Other users can see that a program update is available ONLY by opening the main GUI. The server has already sent to this user a "sign" that there is a program update available (since Avast main GUI can display this situation), but no PROGRAM update tray notification is being displayed, even if months go by and several new stable versions were released. In this situation, the user won't know that a program update is available, unless he opens the main GUI.

5_ Moreover, when changing the settings to automatic program update, the main GUI already knows that there is a new program update available, but the program is NOT automatically updated. Months go by, and the PROGRAM does NOT update.

You have 4 different behaviours while using the same settings and having the same main status (main GUI already knows that there is a program update available). The 5th example is with 1 different setting, but all the other settings and the situation is the same.

I hope this time you can see the discrepancies in the behaviour (cases 1 to 3) and the problem for millions of users not even opening the main GUI ever (cases 4 and 5).
Title: Re: program update tray notification
Post by: igor on May 20, 2011, 12:05:13 PM
What you describe, except for point 1 - is exactly how it's supposed to work (with the points 3 and 4 actually being "notification not shown yet").
Title: Re: program update tray notification
Post by: ady4um on May 20, 2011, 01:16:14 PM
What you describe, except for point 1 - is exactly how it's supposed to work (with the points 3 and 4 actually being "notification not shown yet").

Igor, that is a contradiction. All the points, 1 to 5, are REAL examples happening RIGHT NOW, currently, simultaneously. Those are NOT inventions. Those are REAL.

Point 1 is happening to me. Point 3 is NOT "notification not shown yet", since they "alternate" according to the program update availability. They show up, just never simultaneously. But other users still see those simultaneously, when it corresponds. I used to see it that way, but not anymore. Point 2 is still seeing the correct behaviour, and point 3 has never seen it correctly. But all three ARE currently receiving the program update tray notification.

If points 1 to 3 are all using the same "update" settings, and they ALL are actually currently seeing PROGRAM update tray notifications when there is one available (same stage of distribution cycle), and they ALL have the same "Status Bar Monitoring" settings, there should not be a reason for those 3 REAL CURRENT users to see different behaviours.

About points 4 and 5, those "might" (potentially) be a case of "notification not shown yet", but not necessarily. But, when this behaviour is happening during (many) months, and the users are using a stable version which is 3 or 4 or 6 releases old, then what would be the point of "automatic program update"? Just because the tray notification is not showing up, does not mean that the AUTOMATIC program update shouldn't be applied. Having "automatic" program updates that are not automatically updating (during many months and many stable releases) is, well..., ridiculous. That situation should be enough to conclude that there is some problem, somewhere.

Even if I discard any other REAL CURRENT users reporting their situations, my own current status is like in point 1, which you say it is not "normal".

If Avast doesn't want to test this, and experienced users simply deny the clear reports of many users (including reports from very frequent forum's users that usually offer good support here, like those I quoted), then I can only "pray" for those millions simple users out there not having their security program updated as they expect.

The DATABASE is still being correctly updated, no matter the database update tray notifications being displayed or not. The PROGRAM, is NOT being correctly updated in some of the cases, while it should be either automatically updated, or should correctly notify the user so to update manually, in a timely manner.
Title: Re: program update tray notification
Post by: jrace on May 20, 2011, 01:22:20 PM
Could we just open up another 3-4 topics for this case?

Otherwise I will not be able to understand the point "ady4um" is trying to make unless he is just eager to get his 100 posts.

The topics must be filled though by uncounted quotes of the previous one and each reply must fill at least half a forum page otherwise we are completely loosing the track.

Thank you "ady4um" that's exactly what the world needs!
Title: Re: program update tray notification
Post by: Asyn on May 20, 2011, 01:30:39 PM
Could we just open up another 3-4 topics for this case?

Otherwise I will not be able to understand the point "ady4um" is trying to make unless he is just eager to get his 100 posts.

The topics must be filled though by uncounted quotes of the previous one and each reply must fill at least half a forum page otherwise we are completely loosing the track.

Thank you "ady4um" that's exactly what the world needs!