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Consumer Products => Avast Free Antivirus / Premium Security (legacy Pro Antivirus, Internet Security, Premier) => Topic started by: NoelDP on July 04, 2011, 10:47:08 AM

Title: How many dead Vista bodies before Avast acknowledge a problem?
Post by: NoelDP on July 04, 2011, 10:47:08 AM
As a regular contributor to the MS WGA forums, I have repeatedly had to tell people running Vista to uninstall Avast v6, as it causes Kernel and Mod-Auth Tampers which break validation in Vista.

Avast has so far neither acknowledged the problem, nor stated that they can even see it.

Might I suggest that a couple of developers hang around the Vista WGA forum for a few days, and see the list of bodies that has already appeared, and the ones that keep on appearing?

http://search.microsoft.com/results.aspx?q=avast%20meta:Search.MSForums.ForumID(d51bb8e3-3494-406c-af07-4770223ea96f)%20site:microsoft.com&mkt=en-gb

http://social.microsoft.com/Forums/en-US/genuinevista/threads
Title: Re: How many dead Vista bodies before Avast acknowledge a problem?
Post by: Asyn on July 04, 2011, 10:49:13 AM
http://forum.avast.com/index.php?topic=80315.0

Quote
- improved compatibility with Windows Vista SP0/SP1

Edit: Btw, installing SP2 for Vista should also fix this.
Title: Re: How many dead Vista bodies before Avast acknowledge a problem?
Post by: logos on July 04, 2011, 11:27:56 AM
... still weird that such an issue happened in the first place, I didn't know that at all. Actually when I read the changelog bit about Vista, I was really wondering what it was about.

 In fact I've seen it happen a couple of times here on Seven. But Seven has got the WAT update (that doesn't just verify, but repairs if necessary) so it's never been a problem... issue was already gone after login in.

 Happened not that long ago, but I can't remember if there was suspicion of any Avast interference (ie after a boot scan, an uninstall/re-install etc...).
Title: Re: How many dead Vista bodies before Avast acknowledge a problem?
Post by: NoelDP on July 04, 2011, 12:02:58 PM
http://forum.avast.com/index.php?topic=80315.0

Quote
- improved compatibility with Windows Vista SP0/SP1

Edit: Btw, installing SP2 for Vista should also fix this.

I only wish that was true - Certainly a simple update doesn't fix it. Avast must first be uninstalled, then SP2 installed, and then Avast reinstalled - and if the user is VERY lucky, it'll work.

AV software should NOT be a crapshoot!!

Title: Re: How many dead Vista bodies before Avast acknowledge a problem?
Post by: Asyn on July 04, 2011, 12:09:53 PM
AV software should NOT be a crapshoot!!

As said, that has been fixed already...!!

Free AV: http://files.avast.com/files/beta/6.0.1198/setup_av_free.exe
Pro AV: http://files.avast.com/files/beta/6.0.1198/setup_av_pro.exe
IS: http://files.avast.com/files/beta/6.0.1198/setup_ais.exe
Title: Re: How many dead Vista bodies before Avast acknowledge a problem?
Post by: NoelDP on July 04, 2011, 12:10:38 PM
... still weird that such an issue happened in the first place, I didn't know that at all. Actually when I read the changelog bit about Vista, I was really wondering what it was about.


What makes it worse is that there was a similar (though not identical) problem when v4.5 (IIRC) came out - and at that time I again was having to advise people to uninstall Avast.
...again, it took months before a 'fix' was put in the system.

FWIW, this issue was also reported in these forums back in April(?)

http://forum.avast.com/index.php?topic=77625.0

The poster then (who I'd referred here) later told me that Avast 'could not repro' the problem. All they had to do was show up in the WGA forums and ask questions of anyone affecte there - but no. SILENCE and the appearance of the ostrich.

I'm fed up with telling people to uninstall what I consider to be one of the better AV's because of what should be fairly simple problems, that they have now twice failed to solve in acceptable periods of time.
 
Title: Re: How many dead Vista bodies before Avast acknowledge a problem?
Post by: Vladimyr on July 04, 2011, 02:11:47 PM
Hi NoelDP
I had no idea the problem was widespread. I didn't pay too much attention to that post in
"April(?)" (May 8 ) because I don't know of anyone running earlier-than-SP2 Vista.
Title: Re: How many dead Vista bodies before Avast acknowledge a problem?
Post by: Asyn on July 04, 2011, 02:17:01 PM
I'm fed up with telling people to uninstall what I consider to be one of the better AV's because of what should be fairly simple problems, that they have now twice failed to solve in acceptable periods of time.

So just stop telling people to uninstall. Tell them to update. ;)
Title: Re: How many dead Vista bodies before Avast acknowledge a problem?
Post by: logos on July 04, 2011, 02:22:18 PM
yeah but that's a beta, not supposed to be widely adopted right now + vlk didn't explicitly precise that the fix was for Windows activation issues (although that's very probable).
Title: Re: How many dead Vista bodies before Avast acknowledge a problem?
Post by: Asyn on July 04, 2011, 02:24:33 PM
yeah but that's a beta, not supposed to be widely adopted right now + vlk didn't explicitly precise that the fix was for Windows activation issues (although that's very probable).

Well, the beta is stable.
But if they shouldn't like to install the beta, they should wait for the final release...
Title: Re: How many dead Vista bodies before Avast acknowledge a problem?
Post by: Cast on July 04, 2011, 05:01:54 PM
I find this thread funny since the OP said that Avast isn't compatible yet ive used avast since it was out in 4.8 on this Vista machine.
Title: Re: How many dead Vista bodies before Avast acknowledge a problem?
Post by: DavidCo on July 04, 2011, 05:11:50 PM
@Castayr
 
There are millions? of Vista users without issues but that does not lessen the impact for those who do have problems.
I used Eset for a long time but switched due to an issue with Vista that a few had.
Title: Re: How many dead Vista bodies before Avast acknowledge a problem?
Post by: Dch48 on July 04, 2011, 07:16:36 PM
No problem here on Vista Home Basic SP2 but I will say that Avast was installed well after the SP2 update.
Title: Re: How many dead Vista bodies before Avast acknowledge a problem?
Post by: Vlk on July 04, 2011, 07:23:21 PM
Yes, the new version (which will be officially released soon, and is currently available as a beta) is supposed to fix that problem.

Vista is very sensitive about injections to its "antipiracy" process (slsvc.exe). You touch the process, and it starts yelling. Obviously, MS has re-architected that in W7 though.


If anyone having the issue could actually test the beta and report back if the problem is really solved, it would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks
Vlk
Title: Re: How many dead Vista bodies before Avast acknowledge a problem?
Post by: ady4um on July 04, 2011, 08:21:21 PM
If anyone having the issue could actually test the beta and report back if the problem is really solved, it would be greatly appreciated.

The proposal of the OP was exactly the opposite: Avast Team could/should participate at those MS forums to "publish" the new beta, minimize the impact of those "uninstall Avast completely and forget about it" suggestions, and finally Avast could have some more testers about the issue.

Since the issue is actually a crashed system, I don't think that users are waiting for the stable release. They either accept using a beta (if they actually know that the issue may be resolved), or they change to a different tool.

Avast should had released a new stable with at least this issue resolved (and any already solved critical problems), if not for the users of Vista "pre SP2", for the bad PR. All the "extra" (read, non-critical improvements) could have wait in the beta step. Just my opinion.
Title: Re: How many dead Vista bodies before Avast acknowledge a problem?
Post by: NoelDP on July 04, 2011, 10:43:43 PM



Since the issue is actually a crashed system, I don't think that users are waiting for the stable release. They either accept using a beta (if they actually know that the issue may be resolved), or they change to a different tool.



The problem is not a 'crash', it's simply that the system registers as being non-genuine. In RTM Vista, this makes the Desktop inaccessible, and also disallows access to the Control Panel - which confuses the heck out of people when you tell them to uninstall Avast, unless you point to the alternative methids of doing so. The problem is NOT confined to TRM or SP1, though - there are a small number of cases in SP2, so this needs also to be addressed. It's not as if any of these systems are new technology - SP2 came out in 2009 -  so why is Avast failing in its duty of care for its clients' systems?


Most users want to get access back to their ystem more than anything else - and a failed AV does not inspire confidence, so they are less likely to reinstall it than to get one of the alternatives (I've been pointing them to MSE as a consequence - I don't like AVG any more, and I don't have enough experience or faithin AntiVir, or anything else)
Title: Re: How many dead Vista bodies before Avast acknowledge a problem?
Post by: Joe S on July 05, 2011, 06:50:50 AM
I had this happen to me one time on Vista SP2. I simply typed on the key code and it solved problem. I haven't had problems with it since.
Joe
Title: Re: How many dead Vista bodies before Avast acknowledge a problem?
Post by: Vlk on July 05, 2011, 09:23:07 AM
If anyone having the issue could actually test the beta and report back if the problem is really solved, it would be greatly appreciated.

The proposal of the OP was exactly the opposite: Avast Team could/should participate at those MS forums to "publish" the new beta, minimize the impact of those "uninstall Avast completely and forget about it" suggestions, and finally Avast could have some more testers about the issue.

Since the issue is actually a crashed system, I don't think that users are waiting for the stable release. They either accept using a beta (if they actually know that the issue may be resolved), or they change to a different tool.

Avast should had released a new stable with at least this issue resolved (and any already solved critical problems), if not for the users of Vista "pre SP2", for the bad PR. All the "extra" (read, non-critical improvements) could have wait in the beta step. Just my opinion.

Just two things to note:
1. as someone above said, the result is not a system crash. It's Windows reporting as having detected an "unauthorized modification".

2. We would have released the update earlier if only the problem would have been solved earlier. The main problem was to actually get a computer with the problem simulated. If you look at the MSFT forums, you may fall into the impression that the problem affected pretty much all Vista users. But this is simply not the case.... we tried tens of various Vista installations, with various HW and SW configurations, and were simply not able to reproduce the problem. This is probably because the licensing checks are done only "randomly", as one of the MSFT forum moderators pointed out... which makes its testing very tough.

Thanks
Vlk
Title: Re: How many dead Vista bodies before Avast acknowledge a problem?
Post by: ady4um on July 05, 2011, 10:11:39 AM

Just two things to note:
1. as someone above said, the result is not a system crash. It's Windows reporting as having detected an "unauthorized modification".
OK, my apologies. Generally speaking, not all cases were complete crashes. But the bottom line still remained: a user in such situation was "highly bothered" or "highly uncomfortable" with a security tool installed while having Windows throwing those messages. Most users won't continue using their systems in such a situation, and uninstalling Avast was their most simple solution (hence, not using Avast and not waiting for an update and causing PR problems).

Quote
2. We would have released the update earlier if only the problem would have been solved earlier. The main problem was to actually get a computer with the problem simulated. If you look at the MSFT forums, you may fall into the impression that the problem affected pretty much all Vista users. But this is simply not the case.... we tried tens of various Vista installations, with various HW and SW configurations, and were simply not able to reproduce the problem. This is probably because the licensing checks are done only "randomly", as one of the MSFT forum moderators pointed out... which makes its testing very tough.

I agree that identifying the problem probably wasn't simple, since it was not under all Vista systems. But you have posted that the problem was resolved already a few days ago, and the final stable version was not still released. So the PR and technical problems continued for some days. Probably most users that had the problem don't even know that there is a new stable release solving the issue. In such "critical" cases (both technical and PR situations), my point was that publishing a new stable ASAP, and delaying the noncritical additions, would had stopped at least "some" of those BSODs and bad PR (specially when you can post in those other forums that a stable realease is available so to solve the initial problem, with no workarounds).

I'm sure that Avast Team has valid reasons to have it delayed some additional days until 6.0.1203 was finally published. Of course my opinion was based on what I know, and for sure I don't know "all" the reasons for the delay.

I only hope this "was" a problem, and that it won't come back :). It will help if Avast Team can go to those other forums and make clear that a new stable release resolves it.
Title: Re: How many dead Vista bodies before Avast acknowledge a problem?
Post by: NoelDP on July 11, 2011, 08:21:55 AM


Quote
2. We would have released the update earlier if only the problem would have been solved earlier. The main problem was to actually get a computer with the problem simulated. If you look at the MSFT forums, you may fall into the impression that the problem affected pretty much all Vista users. But this is simply not the case.... we tried tens of various Vista installations, with various HW and SW configurations, and were simply not able to reproduce the problem. This is probably because the licensing checks are done only "randomly", as one of the MSFT forum moderators pointed out... which makes its testing very tough.

I agree that identifying the problem probably wasn't simple, since it was not under all Vista systems. But you have posted that the problem was resolved already a few days ago, and the final stable version was not still released. So the PR and technical problems continued for some days. Probably most users that had the problem don't even know that there is a new stable release solving the issue. In such "critical" cases (both technical and PR situations), my point was that publishing a new stable ASAP, and delaying the noncritical additions, would had stopped at least "some" of those BSODs and bad PR (specially when you can post in those other forums that a stable realease is available so to solve the initial problem, with no workarounds).

I'm sure that Avast Team has valid reasons to have it delayed some additional days until 6.0.1203 was finally published. Of course my opinion was based on what I know, and for sure I don't know "all" the reasons for the delay.

I only hope this "was" a problem, and that it won't come back :). It will help if Avast Team can go to those other forums and make clear that a new stable release resolves it.

....And the body-count is still rising -and it seems to be getting WORSE rather than better.
PLEASE - someone from Avast actaully PARTICIPATE in the WGA Forums - it's not that difficult \;0
Title: Re: How many dead Vista bodies before Avast acknowledge a problem?
Post by: Vlk on July 11, 2011, 05:56:08 PM
....And the body-count is still rising -and it seems to be getting WORSE rather than better.

Is it? I was looking at the WGA forum but didn't find anything specific. Are you seeing anyone with the problem and avast 6.0.1203?

Thanks
Vlk
Title: Re: How many dead Vista bodies before Avast acknowledge a problem?
Post by: NoelDP on July 15, 2011, 12:05:07 AM
When someone is sinking, do you ask them which lifeboat they are on?

Title: Re: How many dead Vista bodies before Avast acknowledge a problem?
Post by: patbertaux on July 15, 2011, 07:07:39 PM
If anyone having the issue could actually test the beta and report back if the problem is really solved, it would be greatly appreciated.

The proposal of the OP was exactly the opposite: Avast Team could/should participate at those MS forums to "publish" the new beta, minimize the impact of those "uninstall Avast completely and forget about it" suggestions, and finally Avast could have some more testers about the issue.

Since the issue is actually a crashed system, I don't think that users are waiting for the stable release. They either accept using a beta (if they actually know that the issue may be resolved), or they change to a different tool.

Avast should had released a new stable with at least this issue resolved (and any already solved critical problems), if not for the users of Vista "pre SP2", for the bad PR. All the "extra" (read, non-critical improvements) could have wait in the beta step. Just my opinion.

Just two things to note:
1. as someone above said, the result is not a system crash. It's Windows reporting as having detected an "unauthorized modification".

2. We would have released the update earlier if only the problem would have been solved earlier. The main problem was to actually get a computer with the problem simulated. If you look at the MSFT forums, you may fall into the impression that the problem affected pretty much all Vista users. But this is simply not the case.... we tried tens of various Vista installations, with various HW and SW configurations, and were simply not able to reproduce the problem. This is probably because the licensing checks are done only "randomly", as one of the MSFT forum moderators pointed out... which makes its testing very tough.

Thanks
Vlk


A few more bruises in the Avast 6 - Vista conflict to report here, if it can be any help - and if you can help me, even better !

Configuration : Windows Vista Edition Familiale Premium (don't think you'll have trouble translating that!) on a Sony Vaio VGN-CR11Z/R (4 years old)in France. And whatever versions of Avast Free available over these last 4 years.

First error 0XC004D401 mid-June when I'd just installed the new Avast 6, problems solved early July thanks to replies to a post on the Free/Pro/Suite Forum : restoration of Vista, disinstalling/ reinstalling Avast. For details, please look at the topic "Avast 6 update and Vista".

Very pleased, all back to normal, problem solved... Version 6.0.1203 up and running.

This morning, wham! bang!, same error out of the blue while I was working on the computer. On checking, I discovered that Vista had just uploaded an update of Windows Defender.

I seem to have got things working again, but have put updates from Windows and Avast on hold for the moment, as I'm not sure I've got everything right.

Sorry I can't be more technical - my computer training goes back to the year hard disk drives were invented (oh what a giveaway  8)). I've read forum posts for 2 or 3 hours now to no avail, but am willing to be a guinea pig for testing solutions.

Any ideas ?
Thanks in advance

 
Title: Re: How many dead Vista bodies before Avast acknowledge a problem?
Post by: ady4um on July 15, 2011, 08:29:07 PM
@patbertaux,

The workaround is the following:

1_ Use the clean uninstall tool of Avast under Windows Safe Mode;
2_ Update Windows Vista with ALL the needed updates and reboot (and repeat the update+reboot until no updates are displayed);
3_ Double check that you have Vista SP2 applied;
4_ Double check your Validation Status after all the updates.

Whichever step above (partially) fails (like, for example, the Validation Status after SP2), then you need to comply and start from step "2" above again.

After ALL updates are applied and Vista is Validated, download the latest Stable version of Avast, install it and reboot.

It is a PITA, but it "solves" the problem, at least for now.

I don't know if you have the complete knowledge for all those steps (since you mentioned your computer training is not *that* good). I am simply mentioning the steps that worked for other users with this problem.

If you still need specific help, please open a new topic so to make it easier for forum users to help you.
Title: Re: How many dead Vista bodies before Avast acknowledge a problem?
Post by: jadinolf on July 16, 2011, 12:30:24 AM
My laptop has Vista as its OS.

Never noticed any problems with avast!
Title: Re: How many dead Vista bodies before Avast acknowledge a problem?
Post by: Nesivos on July 16, 2011, 01:55:51 AM
Quote
If you’re a Windows watcher, circle this date on your calendar: April 10, 2012.

That’s the date when mainstream support for Windows Vista officially ends.

http://www.zdnet.com/blog/bott/can-windows-8-finally-vanquish-the-ghosts-of-xp-and-vista/3570 (http://www.zdnet.com/blog/bott/can-windows-8-finally-vanquish-the-ghosts-of-xp-and-vista/3570)

People may seriously want to consider dumping Windows 7 Beta (i.e. Vista) ASAP.
Title: Re: How many dead Vista bodies before Avast acknowledge a problem?
Post by: Dch48 on July 16, 2011, 02:33:02 AM
Quote
If you’re a Windows watcher, circle this date on your calendar: April 10, 2012.

That’s the date when mainstream support for Windows Vista officially ends.

http://www.zdnet.com/blog/bott/can-windows-8-finally-vanquish-the-ghosts-of-xp-and-vista/3570 (http://www.zdnet.com/blog/bott/can-windows-8-finally-vanquish-the-ghosts-of-xp-and-vista/3570)

People may seriously want to consider dumping Windows 7 Beta (i.e. Vista) ASAP.
They can't completely dump support for Vista in 2012 when XP support is continuing until 2014. I don't think the writer has his facts straight.
Title: Re: How many dead Vista bodies before Avast acknowledge a problem?
Post by: DavidR on July 16, 2011, 02:40:23 AM
Interesting that Vista's mainstream support ends April 10, 2012 and two years before XP in April 2014; with rumours of the release of windows 8 also April 2012 ;D

[off-topic]
XP had extra life because of a few things, when netbooks came out Vista was a busted flush too much resource use, so XP was revived. Plus there are still a lot of business users with the Pro version and that is on extended support life cycle.

But it is no surprise to me MS want rid of this failed OS, Vista never really took off.
[/off-topic]
Title: Re: How many dead Vista bodies before Avast acknowledge a problem?
Post by: ady4um on July 16, 2011, 04:00:50 AM
[off-topic]
...But it is no surprise to me MS want rid of this failed OS, Vista never really took off.
[/off-topic]
[off-topic]
It is not because of Vista. MS "failed" to release the OS that was supposed to be released after XP by the time they really wanted to. So when it finally came out (as Vista) with several years of delay, the new policy was/is that the "previous release" support ends 3 years after the "latest release" is published (or something like that; I currently don't remember the exact wording). So, 3 years after "Windows 8" would be released, the support for Seven will also end. After XP, MS will never support again the same OS for 13 years.
[/off-topic]
Title: Re: How many dead Vista bodies before Avast acknowledge a problem?
Post by: turmoyle2000 on July 16, 2011, 08:45:30 AM
As I understand it mainstream support for Windows Vista ends in 2012, but extended support continues until 2017.
Title: Re: How many dead Vista bodies before Avast acknowledge a problem?
Post by: Chilly8 on July 16, 2011, 12:00:13 PM
As a regular contributor to the MS WGA forums, I have repeatedly had to tell people running Vista to uninstall Avast v6, as it causes Kernel and Mod-Auth Tampers which break validation in Vista.



There may be an easier way, that I am experimenting with now, by going into Services and disabling Windows Update. What it is likely clashing with are tools that are periodically downloaded by Windows Update to validate and check that Product Activation has not been tampered with.
Title: Re: How many dead Vista bodies before Avast acknowledge a problem?
Post by: Chilly8 on July 16, 2011, 12:03:11 PM
As I understand it mainstream support for Windows Vista ends in 2012, but extended support continues until 2017.


I think that all support for XP, Vista and 7 will all end in 2014.

Title: Re: How many dead Vista bodies before Avast acknowledge a problem?
Post by: Chilly8 on July 16, 2011, 12:39:10 PM
As a regular contributor to the MS WGA forums, I have repeatedly had to tell people running Vista to uninstall Avast v6, as it causes Kernel and Mod-Auth Tampers which break validation in Vista.

Avast has so far neither acknowledged the problem, nor stated that they can even see it.



One thing it might to is screw up the security settings on some folders where you cannot access them, if if logged in as a full admin

After I re-installed Windows, due to this problem, I was totally locked out of one of the hard disks, and could not get in, even as an admin, so I had to set ownership of everything on the disk to Administrator, and that allowed me to get back into the disk.

I also wonder if this could not have been the reason I had to reinstall Vista the first time. I run an online radio station, and FireDemon, which keeps Winamp and Shoutcast DNAS running as a Windows service, stopped working, and knocked me off the air. I wonder if the update to Avast 6 could not have caaused that. When tried to and start the service, I would get an error message saying the serice could not start. FireDeamon was totally screwed up and I had to reinstall Windows.












Title: Re: How many dead Vista bodies before Avast acknowledge a problem?
Post by: Asyn on July 16, 2011, 04:04:10 PM
I think that all support for XP, Vista and 7 will all end in 2014.

No, it won't. ;)
http://support.microsoft.com/gp/lifeselectwin
Title: Re: How many dead Vista bodies before Avast acknowledge a problem?
Post by: Nesivos on July 16, 2011, 05:29:36 PM
I think that all support for XP, Vista and 7 will all end in 2014.

No, it won't. ;)
http://support.microsoft.com/gp/lifeselectwin

From your link

Windows Vista Home Premium in the U.S.A

1. Service Pack Support has already ended
2. Mainstream support will end on 4/10/12

I would imagine that MSFT will offer extended support for Vista when mainstream support ends just like they are doing for XP.

Windows XP Home Edition in the U.S.A

1. Mainstream support is done.
2. Extended support end date is 4/8/14. 


Extended support includes
1. Paid support
2. Security update support
3. Non-security hotfix support but only if you purchased an extended hotfix agreement, purchased within 90 days of mainstream support ending.

Bottom line is that unless you purchased Windows XP or Windows Vista from a third party you will not be getting any software compatibility updates.   I doubt that there are too many software companies writing new versions of their software with an emphasis on Windows XP or Windows Vista compatibility.
Title: Re: How many dead Vista bodies before Avast acknowledge a problem?
Post by: turmoyle2000 on July 16, 2011, 06:34:13 PM
Quote
I would imagine that MSFT will offer extended support for Vista when mainstream support ends just like they are doing for XP.

Like I already said, mainstream support for Vista ends in 2012, and extended support runs until 2017. It's all part of the MSFT product life cycle. You can read about on the MSFT website.
Title: Re: How many dead Vista bodies before Avast acknowledge a problem?
Post by: patbertaux on July 17, 2011, 06:28:49 PM
@patbertaux,
The workaround is the following: [...]

Just to say thanks for your help, system at last up and running, hopefully !