Avast WEBforum
Other => General Topics => Topic started by: techie101 on November 25, 2004, 05:12:03 AM
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I have been contacted by many users having problems with the new 4.5 and their email clients. I myself have lost email scanning on outbound mail for all 3 of my clients: Outlook Express (was working great with 4.1), Pegasus and Thunderbird .7 on my W98 and ME machines.
After 3 days, I have given up trying to manually configure them. Even when I use the Mail Protection Wizard, it configures the clients, but SMTP still fails to authenticate.
As has been said by other users, shutting down Avast restores outbound mail whereas firewall shutdown does not affect the condition at all.
I think that it should be up to the user now whether 4.1 or 4.5 should be installed.
I would like the Avast Team to comment on how this matter can be resolved, and consider making 4.1 available temporarily.
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I don't know,if it's a good idea.For me avast! 4.5 has not been tried enough.Beta has been used only by forum member's.
I've the same problem as yours Techie .I've recommended Avast! to many people,but i've not your abilities for reply them
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running avast with outbound scanning turned off 4.5.531 as if I turn it on my mail client won't send email and then times out from the ISP and Avast itself reports its own timeout. Tried endless suggested 'tricks' but none works so far. XPhome SP2, ZoneAlarm,Turnpike mail client, BTinternet ISP, Broadband.
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My personal experience with 4.5 (from the 1st beta till now)
- Problems when using Opera mail and the first beta (solved with the second beta)
- Still problems with the screensaver (had that already with 4.1, sofar not solved)
- Problem with rar files containing many files (80+, solved)
I know that the problems with Thunderbird (imap) are caused by the way TB is handling the mail, but there is a solution for.
Another thing I have noticed is that a lot of people using XP and Outlook (Express) and somehow the mail setup in avast4.ini seems to be wrong. I have tried to replicate the problem on my systems but wasn't able to on none of them.
Only this morning I though I had it replicate when the mail wasn't working, but it turned out that my ISP was working on their mailservers :P
4.1 back (temporary)? I would say no. To me it feels like giving blood to someone who is bleeding, but not doing anything to stop the bleeding.
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4.1 back (temporary)? I would say no. To me it feels like giving blood to someone who is bleeding, but not doing anything to stop the bleeding.
I feel the same... Ahead not backward ;D
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For me no problems at all with the official release of 4.5, I have never used any of the beta versions and waited patiently for the official release.
I even forgot to run MPW to remove mail protection (i.e. set everything back to normal) before I downloaded the official 4.5 release (manual update). Every thing went ok, all OE accounts set back to as they should. No problems sending email with or without attachments.
It would be interesting to find out if people who have installed 4.5 as their first installation of avast (e.g. never had 4.1) if they experienced any of the problems.
I don't think you can not unwind the clock. The more people who install 4.1 and have to manually setup their email accounts to work with avast, the more we are simply storing up potential for future problems. The fact that they will also lose out on some of the enhancements/protection is also a factor.
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I can understand the points made here, but look at it this way.....
If users cannot configure their system using Avast and have no protection (usually on the SMTP side from the posts), isn't it better to revert to a version that worked with their OS then leave them stranded????
Right now, I for one have no outbound scanning on my ME or W98 machines which I need to test programs and work problems for users. 4.1 worked fine on both before the update.
I have had to revert to previous program releases when I could not get a new release of a program to work properly.
I don't like trading one set of email problems in 4.1 (which were solved ) for another in 4.5! That's not going forward....is it?
The new features of 4.5 are of no use if a user can't get it to work properly.
I feel terrible when a user contacts me with email trouble and I can't even solve my own any more.
What I don't understand is why the team at Avast is not saying much about a solution here!
It makes sense to "wait" only if help is forthcoming. Thunderbird is not a "rarely" used email client. It has become very popular.
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What I don't understand is why the team at Avast is not saying much about a solution here!
In my opinion, silence is the worst thing for a support team :P
This is the reason because we do not ask for support in ZoneAlarm, AVG, Symantec products and a lot of others... :P :(
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If users cannot configure their system using Avast and have no protection (usually on the SMTP side from the posts), isn't it better to revert to a version that worked with their OS then leave them stranded????
I have had to revert to previous program releases when I could not get a new release of a program to work properly.
Good point, Techie. I've had no problems with 4.5 (so far) myself, but that's just me.
And it's very common, in forums all over the net, to see recommendations to get specific earlier versions of whatever software because of widespread problems with the most current version. Sometimes it even goes so far as a warning to avoid using the most current version.
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Techie, I understand your point but - to make long story short, our plan is to fix all the problems instead of retreating to the old version.
I believe the 4.5.536 build (availble from the sticky thread in the avast Home/Pro forum section (http://forum.avast.com/index.php?board=2;action=display;threadid=9007)) is already very very stable one and fixes virtually all the problems (except for those that are intimately related to 3rd party firewalls; that is, which are simply incompatibilities with 3rd party apps).
We'll be releasing it as a public (official) build probably during tomorrow.
Thanks
Vlk
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David,
No, I think that any copy of 4.1 must come from Alwil.
I may have a copy of an early release of 4.1 but need to insure that the new vps updates will work with it. I still want to know why things got messed up and why the normal fixes do not work.
UPDATE:
My Thunderbird .9 is being scanned by Avast both ways now. I uninstalled 531, and reinstalled it completely, then updated again. It seemed to take much longer than when originally installed, but once done, I rebooted and configured TB manually.
Now it works. I really don't know what happened but some file must have become corrupted.
Unfortunately, OE still does not connect on the SMTP side, but it was only used as backup.
I'll be thankful for small favors.
:D
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I must say that I did not have any problems at all using Thunderbird 0.9 and Avast Home 4.1 using Wins XP Home SP1, then SP2. My incoming and outgoing mail was scanned just fine then. Now with version 4.5 once again no problems with it scanning incoming/outgoing mail using the same Thunderbird 0.9 version. I waited until both of these official versions were out of their Beta stage before using them and have had absolutely no probems with e-mail, scanning, or any other issues with e-mail. In fact, not having any problems with any other programs using Avast 4.5 just as I was not having any problems with any other programs using Xp home sp1 and sp2 with either Avast 4.1/4.5 versions. Guess I am just lucky or something else may be the difference??
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neal,
Sometimes we never figure out why a release works with one system and not another identical system configuration.
I had W9x, ME and XP working fine with OE, TB, Pegasus and 4.1. The update to 4.5 seemed to cause difficulty.
XP is fine, ME with TB is fine but not OE, W9x has to be checked again. I think OE was working but not Pegasus.
All the problems users are having are configuration related but what makes things difficult is that the configuration for one client does not always work with an identical client on another machine.
Oh well....I'll keep at it.
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Basically, we found the following issues in 4.5.523:
Windows 9x: OUTGOING mail does not work if SMTP server requires authorization
Windows NT/2K/XP: big problems with mail in conjunction with a number of 3rd party firewalls. Namely: Norton Personal Firewall, PC-Cillin. Sometimes also Sygate, Outpost or even ZoneAlarm...
OTHER configurations have had no severe problems AFAWK (except for misconfigured firewall rules etc).
Thanks
Vlk
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Techie101, Yep I understand exactly what can happen as you say. There sometimes is no rhyme or reason for things to act as they do. I am also using Sygate P.F. version 5.6. Good luck. :)
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David,
No, I think that any copy of 4.1 must come from Alwil.
I thought that would probably be the case.
After Vlk announced that 4.5.539 would shortly be released. Plus he didn't see the backward step to 4.1 being an option, I felt it right to remove my post so people didn't go looking.
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David,
Removing your post was not necessary and sometimes can confuse an issue.
Hopefully, build 539 will cure many problems.
We will wait and see.
;)
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Unfortunately, OE still does not connect on the SMTP side, but it was only used as backup.
Techie, could you run into a DOS window:
telnet your_smtp_server 25
and see if you get the welcome message of the server?
In the place of your_smtp_server write your real smtp server address.
I think it's ok because TB could reach the smtp
Basically, we found the following issues in 4.5.523:
Windows 9x: OUTGOING mail does not work if SMTP server requires authorization
I apologize that some posts of me said there is a problem with smtp authentication and XP. It was a fault of my ISP and nothing related to avast.
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Techie 101, Technical, I agree.
Sometime ago I opened a thread asking the Alwil staff to clarify what problems can be identified, which ones remain and which ones are resolved and also still to be resolved. IMHO it would have given me (if I am alone in this) some idea of situation and exactly what problems I was fruitlessly chasing. Unfortunately that thread died a death with the Alwil staff.
http://forum.avast.com/index.php?board=2;action=display;threadid=8902;start=msg73682#msg73682
quote Vlk... I believe the 4.5.536 build (availble from the sticky thread in the avast Home/Pro forum section) is already very very stable one and fixes virtually all the problems
Great, but the title of that thread is... "BETA 4.5.536 - hopefully solving many of the issues...?" ie a previous BETA was also supposed to fix problems!!!, and that isn't knocking the good work Alwil do, it is just unfortunate that it's not quiet happening as hoped.
quote Vlk... fixes virtually all the problems (except for those that are intimately related to 3rd party firewalls; that is, which are simply incompatibilities with 3rd party apps).
"Simple incompatibilities", sorry they seem like quiet important problems that are still to be resolved. Personally, I don't see the point in going from one BETA to another where there are still known issues.
I'm glad that 'some' versions work for 'some' people, but like I too have already said in a previous thread... I would like to go back to a known good, stable version until 4.5 is fully sorted.
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"Simple incompatibilities", sorry they seem like quiet important problems that are still to be resolved. Personally, I don't see the point in going from one BETA to another where there are still known issues.
By "simple incompatibilites" I meant those that will hardly ever be sorted out simply because the 3rd party app uses a similar mechanism of working as avast and the OS was simply not designed to acommodate more than one such a component (this relates to the way the transparent mail scanner works).
Very similar situation as with other av/fw or fw/fw combinations.
To sum up, 4.5.536 fixes, to our best knowledge, all the issues we wanted to fix for now. No other program update is planned for the next month.
Cheers
Vlk
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Quote Vlk... By "simple incompatibilites" I meant those that will hardly ever be sorted out simply because the 3rd party app uses a similar mechanism of working as avast and the OS was simply not designed to acommodate more than one such a component (this relates to the way the transparent mail scanner works).
So Avast! will never again work with certain firewalls and possibly other app's?. Does the transparent scanner (although a good idea) warrant this kind of compatibility loss!!! or am I missing the point?.
Quote Vlk...To sum up, 4.5.536 fixes, to our best knowledge, all the issues we wanted to fix for now. No other program update is planned for the next month.
Yes fine, but there are issues "some" users want to see resolved as well as what Alwil wanted to fix. Without the list of issues/explainations which I reffered the thread to, I for one am still not confident, or clever enough, to know what the heck is resolved/on-going etc. etc. etc.
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Keep in mind that users always have wishes, eventhough a application already is good. It's just impossible to satisfy all.
Alwil (as any other company) only have so much resources for development. And they have to pick things out that (at that point) seems to need priority.
If you agree with the choices they make, is op to you as a user. Everybody is entitle to his own opinion about that and that should be respected.
It is my opinion that Alwil is very open to their users about what they are doing and why they are doing it. There are only a few companies that do so also. That is something which really should be apriciated and deserves respect. And the interaction with their users is one of the best I have ever seen in the almost 25 years I have been working with computers. I don't always agree with Alwil, but that has never been a problem and it never will be, as long as you talk about it with eachother in a decent matter.
Now let us all get back to business and see if we can help others solving their problems.
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Keep in mind ........
I think most of us already knew all that.
So the point you are making in regard to this thread was/is???
Now let us all get back to business and see if we can help others solving their problems.
And when some feel the solution for them is to go back to 4.1 !?!?.
Be those (that would like to 'roll back') right or wrong, I agree with you.. we all have choices and opinions and we should respect them all... including the opinion that reverting to 4.1 would be best for those that would like the choice.
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Rocker, we won't agree with you that going back to 4.1 is the solution.
It will be in some cases a workaround.
I have a lot of problems and never give up on avast team. Sometimes we disagree (Vlk had to forgive me sometimes... ;D) but we're keep working, helping and trying to do our best. You (and a lot of others) come a little time ago... Just patience. World is not perfect! Going back is thrown away a hard work of Alwil and the little we had pointing the errors or problems. I believe we can't go back just to solve some users problems.
I stayed 8 days without sending emails from 2 accounts of mine. What happened? Nothing!. After all, the fault was my ISP and not avast 4.5.
I learned a lesson: stop blaming.
Techie, sorry, I promised that I won't post that large again ;)
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Quote Technical... Rocker, we won't agree with you that going back to 4.1 is the solution.
Technical, your longevity and knowledge on Avast! is accepted. I am not advocating reverting to 4.1 as a permanent solution, just as a temporary measure until 4.5 is proven.
Quote Technical...It will be in some cases a workaround.
As I see it, there seems to be more 'workarounds' trying to get 4.5 to work.
Before anyone feels the need to comment, I use the word 'workaround' loosely.
Quote Technical...Going back is thrown away a hard work of Alwil and the little we had pointing the errors or problems. I believe we can't go back just to solve some users problems.
Again, I am not saying abandon 4.5, just let there be a stable version (4.1) available whilst 4.5 is giving problems for some users.
The latest that Vlk said... that it is not going to work with some applications, does concern me.
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Rocker, maybe tomorrow, 26th November, you'll get a new and perfect program update. I hope too 8)
Just update 8)
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Rocker, maybe tomorrow, 26th November, you'll get a new and perfect program update. I hope too 8)
Just update 8)
Perhaps, but where is the list of firewalls and other applications that won't run with it?.
Do I now have to change other programs in order to use Avast! ?. ??? :-\
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You (and a lot of others) come a little time ago...
Technical,
I forgot this ;) . I may be a newbie, but this thread (and request) was started by a seasoned and respected forum member ... Techie 101 8)
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Perhaps, but where is the list of firewalls and other applications that won't run with it?
They are running with it, only certain systems have problems with it.
And isn't the SEARCH option great..... it would have brought you this > http://forum.avast.com/index.php?board=1;action=display;threadid=9145;start=msg76210#msg76210 (http://forum.avast.com/index.php?board=1;action=display;threadid=9145;start=msg76210#msg76210) ;)
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Perhaps, but where is the list of firewalls and other applications that won't run with it?
They are running with it, only certain systems have problems with it.
Oh and that's OK is it !!!!!!!!!
And isn't the SEARCH option great..... it would have brought you this
Yes it told me this from Vlk:-
Windows NT/2K/XP: big problems with mail in conjunction with a number of 3rd party firewalls. Namely: Norton Personal Firewall, PC-Cillin. Sometimes also Sygate, Outpost or even ZoneAlarm...
So again... what's your point ?
imho, the search option has become more of a hinderance than a help. You can find conflicting answers in just about any search you might make.
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Rocker,
Please understand that many here have different opinions on how to handle a "bug" or "problem" in a program.
I am old school and sometimes would rather go back to a working build whilst I fix the new version rather than sitting with a non-working system,
BUT....
the other side of the coin is that we should always try to move forward if possible, as Technical and VLK stated.
It is a fact that not all software will end up working with all other software. It is unfortunate but something that we must live with. That is why there are different vendors who make the same type of program.
We here on the forum do our best to solve unexpected problems with Avast. I myself suffer from frustration occasionally when I can't get things to work. Although I have a wide and varied knowledge of Avast, the Avast Team are the only ones who have the in-depth knowledge that is sometimes needed to resolve issues.
I do yield to your statement that users should be made well aware of the issues fixed by a new build or release.
Recently after updating to 4.5, I lost use of email for 3 days on all my systems. As it turns out, I was able to restore all but one because I did not quite!
At times there is nothing you can do except Try and Try again....and then Try some more. :D
I will be away for a few days but when I get back will try to assemble some settings and fixes that I found worked to restore my systems in the hope that the information will serve as a guide to others.
This may become a mute point if 539 fixes things.
The forum is a bunch of really good people, but at times you will find very diverse opinions.
;)
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Its the 26th here but no update, but I dont really need it, cause Avasts is working great here :)
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Rocker, Please go HERE (http://www.avast.com.au/i_kat_314.html) and see if this is what you have been asking about. If
this is what you are after all I did was type Avast 4.1 into a
reputable search engine. :)
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Please go HERE (http://www.avast.com.au/i_kat_314.html)
I never knew there was a site for New Zealand and Aussie :-[
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Well, I didn't either until I used the search engine for the other poster in this thread. Now you know where it is and I would put it into Bookmarks or Favorites and then you will have it for future reference. :)
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Techie 101,
Quote Techie 101... I am old school and sometimes would rather go back to a working build whilst I fix the new version rather than sitting with a non-working system,
Yes, I am of exactly the same opinion, hence my posting in this thread.
Quote Techie 101... BUT.... the other side of the coin is that we should always try to move forward if possible, as Technical and VLK stated.
Also something I have openly agreed with. However, I do prefer to 'move forward' for sensible reasons and not just jump on the latest bandwagon.
Quote Techie 101... It is a fact that not all software will end up working with all other software. It is unfortunate but something that we must live with.
Hmmm... enough said... for the sake of a quiet life.
Quote Techie 101... the Avast Team are the only ones who have the in-depth knowledge that is sometimes needed to resolve issues.
Yes... and whilst the forum and it's members are very well supported and intentioned, ultimately we look to the vendor to provide the kind of information asked for in many threads.
Quote Techie 101... I do yield to your statement that users should be made well aware of the issues fixed by a new build or release.
No need to yield :) from my point, it is only a discussion on how things might be improved for users. But it would be useful to know not only what fixes have been effected, but also what remains and what may never be fixed... by design.
Quote Techie 101... At times there is nothing you can do except Try and Try again....and then Try some more.
Well as it stands there is no more to be done than try, but... the 'trying' could be a lot easier given a little more info from Alwil.
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Rocker, Please go HERE (http://www.avast.com.au/i_kat_314.html) and see if this is what you have been asking about. If
this is what you are after all I did was type Avast 4.1 into a
reputable search engine. :)
Thanks for that link Neal. I too never knew it existed.
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The link is no-good. It's a link to the VPS (virus database) updater, not avast itself.
BTW if the new 4.5 build still has some important issues we'll likely provide you with the links to the 4.1 release.
Rocker, BTW, did you know (I mean "find elsewhere on this forum") that the mail scanner in 4.5 can be switched to the 4.1-compatibility mode (i.e. no transparent scanning, mail wizard etc) by puttin the AutoRedirect=0 value to the [MailScanner] section of the file <avast>\
data\avast4.ini?
Thanks
Vlk
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I posted something regarding AutoRedirect=0 in here:
http://forum.avast.com/index.php?board=2;action=display;threadid=8607;start=45#msg75576 (http://forum.avast.com/index.php?board=2;action=display;threadid=8607;start=45#msg75576)
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BTW if the new 4.5 build still has some important issues we'll likely provide you with the links to the 4.1 release.
Thanks Vlk. Strange as some peolple might think, I truly hope that it isn't necessary and that 4.5 settles down. I saw Techie101's thread as as useful discussion and an alternative, not a knock of Alwil.
Rocker, BTW, did you know (I mean "find elsewhere on this forum") that the mail scanner in 4.5 can be switched to the 4.1-compatibility mode (i.e. no transparent scanning, mail wizard etc) by puttin the AutoRedirect=0 value to the [MailScanner] section of the file <avast>\
data\avast4.ini?.
Yes thanks, I did know of this. For the time being I don't route the problem machine through the Wi-Fi/ICS, so it is pure stand alone.
From your earlier comments, I would be interested to know if you have a recommendation for firewalls that will be fully compatible with 4.5. I am left with the impression that choices are limited.
Note: I'm glad for everyone who has found no compatibility issue with Avast/other app's. ... I am referring ONLY to Vlk's earlier comments on the subject. Personally, I found no problem with this, but Vlk has now raised a point that I think needs clarifying.
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If I can contribute somehow to answering your question, here it is... I'm using Sygate Personal Firewall 5.6 without any single issue regarding relation avast! Professional version-Sygate. Everything works flawlesly since the 4.1
On my other computer (wife's PC), there is avast! Home Edition working great with Outpost Freeware 1.0. No problems at all.
I used to use ZoneAlarm long time ago, but many things are changed by now, so it would be much better if I leave this to someone who has ZA installed as his/her current firewall... BoB ? Eddy ?
Cheers !
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I'm using Sygate Personal Firewall 5.6
Cheers !
I moved from sygate 5.5 to Zonealarm and I did try 5.6 but it was crashing my computer with smc.exe using 99% of the CPU :( But Zonealarm has been going great so far (from what I can tell)