Avast WEBforum

Consumer Products => Avast Free Antivirus / Premium Security (legacy Pro Antivirus, Internet Security, Premier) => Topic started by: LorenzoC on February 25, 2012, 11:13:50 PM

Title: The consequence of poor testing
Post by: LorenzoC on February 25, 2012, 11:13:50 PM
I have updated Avast on my uncle's WinXP machine.
Of course it went wrong, any sort of errors.
My uncle, who is old and not a PC guru would have been stuck with it but I remembered of the uninstall tool provided by Avast.
So with some effort I managed to remove Avast.

Now, do you think somebody who had just "emergency removed" a newly installed software is going to install it back again just to see if this times it works?
I don't think so. That means bye Avast. Maybe nobody cares of it, given the usual "it is free, why do you complain" and the "there are million users anyway".
Title: Re: The consequence of poor testing
Post by: Paul Rodgers on February 25, 2012, 11:18:00 PM
Did you uninstall v6 with the tool before upgrading to v7? That is a recommended way to upgrade instead of an in place upgrade.
Title: Re: The consequence of poor testing
Post by: DarkRadience on February 25, 2012, 11:21:22 PM
Step one
http://www.avast.com/uninstall-utility (http://www.avast.com/uninstall-utility)

Step two once rebooted
Avast! Free Antivirus 7.0.1407
http://www.filehippo.com/download_avast_antivirus/
Run the installer and use the custom install option of you wish, I recommended it always.

I am not sure why people are so quick to give up, when most the time it is user error :(
Title: Re: The consequence of poor testing
Post by: claprood on February 25, 2012, 11:21:56 PM
Here's version 6
http://www.oldapps.com/avast_antivirus.php

 and read this
http://forum.avast.com/index.php?topic=94208.0

good luck
Title: Re: The consequence of poor testing
Post by: YoKenny on February 25, 2012, 11:27:38 PM
I am not sure why people are so quick to give up, when most the time it is user error :(
Also pebkack.
Title: Re: The consequence of poor testing
Post by: LorenzoC on February 25, 2012, 11:43:15 PM
User error my #@@.
Apparently you people don't get it.

I did nothing but letting Avast update itself.
If it is not "recommended" then why Avast has got the auto-update feature?

It is not about giving up easily, it is about:
- It is not "normal" to get errors after an update. When it happens, you cannot trust the software any more.
- it is not "normal" that a software hangs at boot and refuses to uninstall from control panel. Yes, you can probably fix the issue given that you spend hours on it. Maybe. Maybe next time you can't.
- Once you have worked around the issue, why should you go looking for more installing the same bugged software AGAIN?

Finally, the fact that older versions of Windows aren't fully supported, despite the "optimistic" system requirements, is getting annoying.
Title: Re: The consequence of poor testing
Post by: Jack 1000 on February 25, 2012, 11:43:46 PM
I think Avast does a marvelous job of testing!  This is the best AV without question.  The only critique that I have is that that Splash screen after every reboot, trying to update over Avast 6, with the only option to do an uninstall with the Avast utility and than a re-install should have been caught and fixed before general release. (So many people had this bug.)  But at least Avast is working on it, and it should be fixed in the next build.

Jack
Title: Re: The consequence of poor testing
Post by: claprood on February 25, 2012, 11:50:32 PM
Apparently you people don't get it.

I did nothing but letting Avast update itself.
If it is not "recommended" then why Avast has got the auto-update feature?

It is not about giving up easily, it is about:
- It is not "normal" to get errors after an update. When it happens, you cannot trust the software any more.
- it is not "normal" that a software hangs at boot and refuses to uninstall from control panel. Yes, you can probably fix the issue given that you spend hours on it. Maybe. Maybe next time you can't.
- Once you have worked around the issue, why should you go looking for more installing the same bugged software AGAIN?

Finally, the fact that older versions of Windows aren't fully supported, despite the "optimistic" system requirements, is getting annoying.

I get it ..lots of frustrated people this week...My link was for AVAST version 6....re-install it and wait out the storm....
what are the alternatives? their not as good..
Title: Re: The consequence of poor testing
Post by: DarkRadience on February 25, 2012, 11:56:35 PM
User error my #@@.
Apparently you people don't get it.

I did nothing but letting Avast update itself.
If it is not "recommended" then why Avast has got the auto-update feature?

It is recommended for most updated to utilize the auto updated future, but as with most software when making a version change, 5-6 or 6-7, a clean install of the newer version has better results.

It is not about giving up easily, it is about:
- It is not "normal" to get errors after an update. When it happens, you cannot trust the software any more.
- it is not "normal" that a software hangs at boot and refuses to uninstall from control panel. Yes, you can probably fix the issue given that you spend hours on it. Maybe. Maybe next time you can't.
- Once you have worked around the issue, why should you go looking for more installing the same bugged software AGAIN?

So far both the issues seem to be user end error, related to the fact Avast 7 is just released and needs more care when installing, myself have installed it on 30+ computers widely varying in specs and OS's and have not had a single problem.


Finally, the fact that older versions of Windows aren't fully supported, despite the "optimistic" system requirements, is getting annoying.

This is true, Avast should have a legacy version that still gets proper security updates I am not sure why they do not.
Title: Re: The consequence of poor testing
Post by: Paul Rodgers on February 25, 2012, 11:57:43 PM
User error my #@@.
Apparently you people don't get it.

I did nothing but letting Avast update itself.
If it is not "recommended" then why Avast has got the auto-update feature?

It is not about giving up easily, it is about:
- It is not "normal" to get errors after an update. When it happens, you cannot trust the software any more.
- it is not "normal" that a software hangs at boot and refuses to uninstall from control panel. Yes, you can probably fix the issue given that you spend hours on it. Maybe. Maybe next time you can't.
- Once you have worked around the issue, why should you go looking for more installing the same bugged software AGAIN?

Finally, the fact that older versions of Windows aren't fully supported, despite the "optimistic" system requirements, is getting annoying.

I would actually suggest that an auto-update to the new version be removed and instead notify the user that the new version is available.

So why are you still using Windows which has had issues after auto-updates?

Lots of programs do this when something does not install properly. That is why many programs tell you to do a clean install instead of upgrade.

You can use the avast uninstall utility to easily remove it if it has problems and do it within minutes.

Older versions of Windows? Versions over 10 years old that Microsoft is dropping or has dropped support for? You want software companies to write software to support those legacy operating systems when Microsoft does not?
Title: Re: The consequence of poor testing
Post by: DarkRadience on February 26, 2012, 12:02:46 AM
Also to true any thing older then Windows XP is not with support, I myself still work on them but strongly recommend any and all my clients look in to upgrading to a new computer, or in most cases just newer, one that is running XP ;)
Title: Re: The consequence of poor testing
Post by: claprood on February 26, 2012, 12:10:08 AM
I agree lorenzo, a lot are missing your point....Avast should have handled the update better....There are a lot of us who are just computer users..we expect our software to work...If it tells us to update, we do it and assume it will continue to work..We shouldn't be expected to have to learn complicated uninstall and re-install instuctions...I know a lot of people's updates were successfull, and a lot were not...many that were not, did what most people would do, followed directions......Maybe avast didn't have this ready to push out....let's hope they are hearing from the senior members of the forum...

hang in there
lloyd
Title: Re: The consequence of poor testing
Post by: LorenzoC on February 26, 2012, 12:12:44 AM
@lloydc
I could not leave my old uncle with Avast 6 installed waiting for another issue.
There are MANY users out there who either don't even read the error messages or they don't know what to do.
So, since after dealing with the failed update I did not have time to do anything else, he is currently without any antivirus.

@Paul Rodgers
@DarkRadience
You both have a career as comedians.
It is VERY funny to read you two blaming "the user" for this fail.
Title: Re: The consequence of poor testing
Post by: DarkRadience on February 26, 2012, 12:13:36 AM
Sorry yea the point Avast did fail here with the update :( it should have been more tested and the unstable behavior that many are seeing would have been weeded out.

EDIT: Avast is at over all fault for pushing a update that clearly needed more testing, the problem is still end users, IT workers like myself have not seen any errors or dissatisfaction from Avast 7.
Title: Re: The consequence of poor testing
Post by: Paul Rodgers on February 26, 2012, 12:27:26 AM
@lloydc
I could not leave my old uncle with Avast 6 installed waiting for another issue.
There are MANY users out there who either don't even read the error messages or they don't know what to do.
So, since after dealing with the failed update I did not have time to do anything else, he is currently without any antivirus.

@Paul Rodgers
@DarkRadience
You both have a career as comedians.
It is VERY funny to read you two blaming "the user" for this fail.

Please point out where I have blamed the user. I have told others that it is recommended to perform a clean install instead of an in place upgrade. I have never said it was their fault that they are having problems.

This is not a testing fail, but a procedure fail. In version updates should be done automatically, but new versions should always be clean installed.
Title: Re: The consequence of poor testing
Post by: ady4um on February 26, 2012, 09:13:12 AM
This is not a testing fail, but a procedure fail. In version updates should be done automatically, but new versions should always be clean installed.

I'd like to point out that many users didn't have problems while updating, and others didn't have problems while installing anew. But, the opposite is also true; many users had problems updating, and many users had problems while installing clean. So saying this is only a procedure fail... Well, it may, but avast announcement explicitly said that a program update is possible, and there was not explicit recommendation to install clean. Many users received a tray notification "click to update" and that was it.

Some problems are unavoidable beforehand. But, if the clean install procedure would be enough to avoid problems, then many users shouldn't be having problems like a repetitive final screen as part of the installation procedure on "every" reboot (or at least, after several reboots). There are more examples; problems after a clean install.

This example of the repetitive screen after reboot may be a "little bug", and I'm not sure how much additional test would had been necessary so to avoid it in the final release. Yet, several "little bugs" (not only in the program itself) caused some amount of "veteran" users to recognized that this was not the best program update in the long history of Avast good quality.
Title: Re: The consequence of poor testing
Post by: AntiVirusASeT on February 26, 2012, 09:30:05 AM
personally i think the RC version was too rushed...too little exposure time to the beta testers.
this is because i do not remember any of the beta testers having these install problems while observing the betas-->release candidate

 :-\
Title: Re: The consequence of poor testing
Post by: LorenzoC on February 26, 2012, 10:00:19 AM
I have my little experience in the IT business.

Follow the simple reasoning:
1. If auto-updates from v.X to v.Y are not safe, Avast should have three levels for updates:
a. green, signature update
b. blue, v.X.x update, inside the same X "branch".
Here I am giving from granted that you don't need to unistall and reinstall Avast any time there is a program update because this would be like saying "do not use Avast".
c. yellow/black stripes, Avast notifies the user that a new version (from v.X to v.Y) is available but that's all, no auto-update possible.
In case "c" the user can click on the message to get information on the proper "unistall v.X-inistall v.Y" procedure. It would be nice to add the unistaller tool to Avast package, that could be handy if the Internet connection is not operable.

What happened instead was that Avast alerted of a program update and the user had the option to refuse or to proceed.

It is NOT true that ANY software that updates necessarily breaks. It is just a matter of quality control.
Recently I had issues with both Firefox and Thunderbird that did not work properly on XP after an update.
The reason was simply that the installer HAD NOT BEEN TESTED over an XP clean install but only on some systems that had lots of other MS software installed (.net, runtimes, etc).
Fortunately if your browser does not work that doesn't affect the system and you just use IE or Opera as backup.
It is MUCH worse when it is your antivirus.

Speaking of beta testers, you must have a pool of testers who cover the whole "spectrum" of systems you plan to support.
What is happening nowadays is that "developers", "power users", "testers", etc are all on modern systems while there are still MANY common users who are on vintage systems. This creates a situation where the development and the testing diverge from the "real" user base. It is obviously made worse by the "release often" policy and the race among firms to add the "newest feature".

For example I can't install any of the current Linux distros on an old PC I have in the garage because, despite the hardware is supported IN THEORY and it worked with previous versions, recent modifications on the kernel and Xorg make the installation to fail and/or Xorg inoperable. I guess it is some regression introduced on old hardware support that went unnoticed simply because NOBODY has tested it (and probably nobody ever will).

Last thing: there are very few things on earth that are more annoying than the FALSE sense of superiority coming from IT guys. And nothing more lame than blaming "the user". It is actually the biggest issue with software development and developers.
Title: Re: The consequence of poor testing
Post by: AntiVirusASeT on February 26, 2012, 10:16:34 AM
i am sry but a whole spectrum of systems is theoretically ideal but practically impossible. to get 'whole spectrum of systems' = 'i will never be able to release my software' (imagine that u have to test with each and every other software in the world to ensure compatibility- there is almost infinitely different permutations of software u got there  :) ) 
show me a software where there is zero bugs after release to public--none
software are pieces of code not physical goods.

notifying the end user of new version without allowing update is redundant and creates confusion (they will be thinking theres a new version but why i cannot update?)

well Avast! does not release new major versions that often. the only problem is that this version is not tested long enough
Title: Re: The consequence of poor testing
Post by: AdrianH on February 26, 2012, 10:19:25 AM
personally i think the RC version was too rushed...too little exposure time to the beta testers.
this is because i do not remember any of the beta testers having these install problems while observing the betas-->release candidate

 :-\

Rushed ? Possibly.  beta testers did have upgrade issues which were worked on.





What happened instead was that Avast alerted of a program update and the user had the option to refuse or to proceed.

Not true at all, you could ( and should ) have looked at avast.com to read what new features were involved in this updated program and there you could download a full copy for yourself so as you can run a custom install and select what features you want to use.



Quote
Speaking of beta testers, you must have a pool of testers who cover the whole "spectrum" of systems you plan to support.
What is happening nowadays is that "developers", "power users", "testers", etc are all on modern systems while there are still MANY common users who are on vintage systems. This creates a situation where the development and the testing diverge from the "real" user base. It is obviously made worse by the "release often" policy and the race among firms to add the "newest feature".
Not the case really, avast 7 beta was open to a wide range of users and if you look here on the forum many of them ,Evangelists included are on older systems running XP.

Quote
Last thing: there are very few things on earth that are more annoying than the FALSE sense of superiority coming from IT guys. And nothing more lame than blaming "the user". It is actually the biggest issue with software development and developers.

Hmm, almost as bad as those that do not check first what they are adding to their system and then scream blue murder afterwards?
Title: Re: The consequence of poor testing
Post by: Asyn on February 26, 2012, 10:34:07 AM
Not the case really, avast 7 beta was open to a wide range of users and if you look here on the forum many of them ,Evangelists included are on older systems running XP.

Confirmed..! ;)
Title: Re: The consequence of poor testing
Post by: LorenzoC on February 26, 2012, 10:39:52 AM
@AdrianH
It seems you live in some alternate reality where if Avast fails it would GAIN reputation and customers instead of LOSING both.

If I was the CEO at Avast headquarters it would be lots of torpedoes flying at mid air looking for somebody's #@@.
This "it is the user's fault" attitude is typical of developers who don't consider that if the software fails, WHATEVER THE REASON IS, they don't get the money. Because it is the dumb user who pays everybody's work. And kicking your customers and potential customers in the groin is not a wise move.

This discussion is rather pointless because it is like the three monkeys who don't listen, don't see and don't speak.
Title: Re: The consequence of poor testing
Post by: AdrianH on February 26, 2012, 10:57:29 AM
@AdrianH
It seems you live in some alternate reality where if Avast fails it would GAIN reputation and customers instead of LOSING both.

If I was the CEO at Avast headquarters it would be lots of torpedoes flying at mid air looking for somebody's #@@.
This "it is the user's fault" attitude is typical of developers who don't consider that if the software fails, WHATEVER THE REASON IS, they don't get the money. Because it is the dumb user who pays everybody's work. And kicking your customers and potential customers in the groin is not a wise move.

This discussion is rather pointless because it is like the three monkeys who don't listen, don't see and don't speak.

Hmm, just who is it that is not listening? Like I said yes, things were possibly "rushed", maybe it was the CEO that pushed the "we must release" button early but I would ask you this, who is it that has the problem here?

I beta rested v7, I found and reported issues, I have installed avast7 Internet Security on 3 machines in this household and it is running flawlessly. I help out in a local PC store and since the v7 Final have installed the free version on @ 20 machines now, they are not new super computers, several were at least 8 years old and running XP, avast7 is working fine on them. .............
Title: Re: The consequence of poor testing
Post by: n01clueless on February 26, 2012, 11:09:57 AM
I completely agree with Lorenzo. Most people here ARE missing the point. Avast is aimed at a mass market, not just power or advanced users. Thus, one should not reasonably expect the problems encountered with Avast 7 (compounded in my case because I use Comodo firewall).

When all is working well Avast is excellent. Unfortunately, for many people, this has not been the case with version 7. I would suggest the move from beta was premature.
Title: Re: The consequence of poor testing
Post by: clubhouse on February 26, 2012, 11:21:08 AM
I completely agree with Lorenzo. Most people here ARE missing the point. Avast is aimed at a mass market, not just power or advanced users. Thus, one should not reasonably expect the problems encountered with Avast 7 (compounded in my case because I use Comodo firewall).

When all is working well Avast is excellent. Unfortunately, for many people, this has not been the case with version 7. I would suggest the move from beta was premature.


I agree with both you and Lorenzo, why should the average end user have to check on the Avast forum to see if they need to do a 'clean install'.....The program offers to update to the latest version....an awful lot of people understand they need an AV...they install and wish to go about their activities on the web...not become some kind of involuntary computer boffin.....some of the 'expert' members of this forum should step off their mantles and stop being so lofty.



I should add that this is a superb AV, I've been using AV pro for 3 years now and its free counterpart is streets ahead of the rivals now!
Title: Re: The consequence of poor testing
Post by: Jack 1000 on February 26, 2012, 11:26:05 AM
I was really shocked that an update pop-up for version 7 was out 1-2 days or so after general release.  This in sharp contrast to the several MONTHS that I can recall when Avast 5 and 6 came out.  The update was in the GUI, but we were told it would be awhile before the pop-up notifications would be released.

I think that the community feels that when the pop-up notification is ready and has been seen, the update should be simple and painless for at least 90% of the population.  It used to be that way with the pop-up notices for Avast 4-6.  I think there should be as many as three public release builds before you push out an auto-update. 

Having to uninstall, go into Safe Mode, get the Uninstall Program.  I actually did my safe mode restarts all at once and everything seemed OK after two reboots.  But Avast, you can't expect Joe and Jane six-pack who barely know how to get to their e-mail to know how to get to the all those processes because the final product, while probably ready for some people with intermediate to advanced knowledge, was not ready for general populations.

You need to go back to a slower roll-out for the pop-up notifications on program updates.  I suppose if you want to put them in the GUI that is OK after about 3 weeks to a month of being out of Beta.  However, I would say don't push stuff out through Automatic update, till you have gone through at least two general releases with a 90% success rate.  You have Avast 7 at maybe a 60% success rate, because you pushed out the pop-up program notification too fast.

And it's sad for people because Jane and Joe six pack aren't going to spend the time or have the knowledge to know how to fix things that should have been caught before final release.  The constant splash screen on reboot unless you do a clean install before hand.  That issue should have been squashed in Beta testing.  You have to look at the hundreds of millions of users who don't even know about this forum.  And what's going to stop them from turning to a competitive product like MSE if they have frustrating experiences with a program that was not ready for pop-up update notification?

I still love your services and support.  However, I have to agree with the majority of the community.  You released Avast 7 too fast.

Jack
Title: Re: The consequence of poor testing
Post by: LorenzoC on February 26, 2012, 11:28:21 AM
It doesn't matter who took the decision, if it was deliberate or a misunderstanding.

Forcing "users" to do the actual beta testing by releasing an unfinished product and then even say it is their own fault if something breaks is plain WRONG and disruptive of TRUST.

The disaster of Windows Vista should be rather explanatory.
Title: Re: The consequence of poor testing
Post by: MAG on February 26, 2012, 11:36:46 AM

For example I can't install any of the current Linux distros on an old PC I have in the garage because, despite the hardware is supported IN THEORY and it worked with previous versions, recent modifications on the kernel and Xorg make the installation to fail and/or Xorg inoperable.


Off topic I know - but just to try to lighten the mood a bit-

Ubuntu/debian won't work any more I agree.

Try the micro distros slitaz or puppylinux. They seem still to work fine on old machines.

The real joy for me is that PCLinuxOS, a mainstream distro, works fine on my ~ 7 year old machine - even with the 2.6.38 kernel. 8) As LXDE or Openbox it's even fast!
Title: Re: The consequence of poor testing
Post by: Asyn on February 26, 2012, 11:53:27 AM
...and then even say it is their own fault if something breaks is plain WRONG and disruptive of TRUST.

Well, nobody said so, afaik.
Title: Re: The consequence of poor testing
Post by: Alievitan on February 26, 2012, 12:09:47 PM
I also agree with Lorenzo about the implicit trust concerning the autoupdate mechanism.  Microsoft is notorious for dragging its feet in regards to even security updates which they justify by saying they have stringent quality controls, but as far back as Windows XP, I do not remember an occasion where auto updates crippled my machine or cause me any significant problems.  In fact the only time I deal with autoupdates, is when I have a fresh windows install, which is the whole point autoupdates, you set and forget.   

However, updating from Avast 6 to 7 has been a nightmare,  realtime modules refusing to start, and registration problems, disruptions of popular programs like Chrome all of which in the end required me to use the specialized Avast removal tool and then clean install.  Any one of these problems are a big inconvenience for a Avast enthusiast and technical users like me who have the know how and patience to work it through, for everybody else meaning the average users, they can be with some, not even aware and vulnerable if for example realtime modules refuse to start.  extremely disruptive.   Even if you lowball the estimate of 10 percent of users will inherit problems, that still means potentially millions and millions of users who will experience problem

Avast must understand that as a security vendor, it is held to a much higher standard that any other with exception of the OS itself; it isn't like itunes, where bonked update only means users can't listen to music.    Users implicitly trust by their security software, to work properly, protect them and not cause disruptions which Avast 7 failed in all three.  That's the whole point of security software.  If you cannot trust your security software to update itself especially when it prompts you, then that reflects very poorly on the vendor to put it mildly. 
Title: Re: The consequence of poor testing
Post by: BTIsaac on February 26, 2012, 12:44:45 PM
And what exactly are those problems you had? You could've listed them here so the devs could fix them instead of complaining.

So far every user who had problems after updating from the GUI managed to solve it with a clean install. That's how I got rid of the splash screen at startup and everything else is working for me. What exactly is your problem coming here, calling names and swearing like a sailor? You really expect people to take you seriously like that? Give me a break.
Title: Re: The consequence of poor testing
Post by: LorenzoC on February 26, 2012, 01:08:50 PM
No I came here to thank Avast people for delivering their unfinished software on my uncle's PC with the update, forcing me to spend time I should have used for more productive stuff trying to remove Avast.
The obvious consequence was I did not install Avast back, not knowing if it could have any issue and not wanting to waste more time and do more damage, in any. And I am not going to install Avast in the near future.

I have spent enough time on the Internet to know developers couldn't care less of what users write on the forums, the forums exist for the very reason of making users help themselves and/or making them waste their time reporting issues without bugging the developers. There are other tools for bug tracking.

The only serious advice should be given on this forum is to not install v.7 unless you are interested in joining the beta test.
People who don't want to help fixing pending issues should stay with v.6 or install some other product.

But then there are the fanboys...
Title: Re: The consequence of poor testing
Post by: spg SCOTT on February 26, 2012, 01:44:09 PM
Ok, so you are disappointed with avast and probably need somewhere to vent...fair enough.

There have been assumptions from both sides in this thread (that it was your fault, or that avast don't care etc...) which are pretty much wrong as far as I am concerned.

Beta testing, by it's nature will NEVER catch every problem, as you are always testing a small subset of the userbase (and by extension the different configurations)

Look at it this way. Assume that only the people on this forum were beta testers (wrong, I know. Only some were testing, and there are others who may not be part of the forum but test also)

There are 240,129 registered members right now. Lets assume that they are the ones that beta tested.
So out of the 150,107,324 active users (from website) this represents a ~0.16% of the total userbase that is testing the beta versions. Less than 1%.

Now, there are some assumptions there, but I think it is fair to say that the actual value is probably lower than that. This means that there are at least 149867152 (99.84%) potentially unique setups that are untested.

Every release will introduce more potential bugs that may not have been present in previous versions, and this will not be seen until it is released.
avast wouldn't have released a version that they felt that was ready, and they do care. They wouldn't still be in business if they didn't.

Was the beta period rushed? Maybe. I guess the only ones that really know will be avast. We are after all, just users.

You had problems with avast, which will hurt your confidence in it. That is understandable, and your decision to choose another one is also understandable. Some of the responses in this thread were unnecessary and probably made things worse for you, which never helps.

I guess the only thing that can be said, is it is unfortunate that you had issues, and that I hope you have a better experience with whatever you choose from now on.
(I never understand why people make such negative comments when a user posts a topic like this...I am pretty sure if I experienced the same, I may be inclined to act the same.)
Title: Re: The consequence of poor testing
Post by: BTIsaac on February 26, 2012, 01:45:50 PM
No I came here to thank Avast people for delivering their unfinished software on my uncle's PC with the update, forcing me to spend time I should have used for more productive stuff trying to remove Avast.

Welcome to the world of computers, is all I have to say about that.

Quote
I have spent enough time on the Internet to know developers couldn't care less of what users write on the forums, the forums exist for the very reason of making users help themselves and/or making them waste their time reporting issues without bugging the developers.

Considering the "issues" most people report here that's understandable. You have any idea how many threads I counted reporting the same issue? Immagine the devs trying to read through each and every one and replying to them separately. And besides, so far every time I came to the forums asking for help or reporting a bug, the members were very helpful, and the bugs themselves were fixed by the devs within the next 24 hours. Maybe if you would do the same instead of acting like a smug wise guy, people would help you out. But that's not why you're here. You've come to complain and try to guilt trip people with your uncle.

Quote
But then there are the fanboys...

Oh is that how it works? People who experienced no problems with Avast and find it working just fine are now fanboys. If you're not going to use Avast in the near future, then what's the point of coming here insulting people who do?
Title: Re: The consequence of poor testing
Post by: LorenzoC on February 26, 2012, 04:00:54 PM
@spg SCOTT:
"is it is unfortunate that you had issues"
Nope. Unfortunate is when a pigeon poops on you because you are in the wrong place in the wrong moment.

In our case it is not accidental, it happens EVERY TIME some condition is met.
I got exactly the same issue as many other Avast users due to:
1. Avast being bugged
2. Avast pushing the auto-update
Of course there isn't any 100% bug free software but most don't crash upon install, refuse to uninstall, force the user to download a removing tool, to reboot in safe mode, etc. And on top if it, why pushing the auto-update? That alone is a nonsense.

"We are after all, just users"
You see things in the wrong perspective. As users we are the only reason why Avast exists.

@BTIsaac:
If I had to worry to crash my system every time I have applied an update I guess I would have beeen doing something else since long ago. It is NOT the world of computers. It is an exception, despite all the efforts on this forum to make it look everyday business.
About the forum, I was just answering the silly suggestion of reporting each issue I got like somebody is going to read it and fix Avast accordingly. About "fanboysm" and alike, I guess it is beyond the reach of most people who replied on this tread.
Title: Re: The consequence of poor testing
Post by: spg SCOTT on February 26, 2012, 07:09:15 PM
@spg SCOTT:
"is it is unfortunate that you had issues"
Nope. Unfortunate is when a pigeon poops on you because you are in the wrong place in the wrong moment.

In our case it is not accidental, it happens EVERY TIME some condition is met.
I got exactly the same issue as many other Avast users due to:
1. Avast being bugged
2. Avast pushing the auto-update
Of course there isn't any 100% bug free software but most don't crash upon install, refuse to uninstall, force the user to download a removing tool, to reboot in safe mode, etc. And on top if it, why pushing the auto-update? That alone is a nonsense.
Why push the update? Because avast felt that it was a viable release. Plus, if on the default settings, it would be not an auto-update, but a prompt to update. (yes, semantics but the point is that there is still some user interaction, it doesn't do everything on it's own)

Quote

"We are after all, just users"
You see things in the wrong perspective. As users we are the only reason why Avast exists.
When you quote out of context, the meaning of the quote gets taken out of context as well. That comment was a reference to us (users) not really having a proper idea of how successful the update has been, and how it has affected people. The only ones that will really know is avast. They are the ones with the data. All we have is a support forum that will, due to it's nature have a majority of negative posts.
Your follow up comment, is

Quote
@BTIsaac:
If I had to worry to crash my system every time I have applied an update I guess I would have beeen doing something else since long ago. It is NOT the world of computers. It is an exception, despite all the efforts on this forum to make it look everyday business.
There are problems being discussed here, and those helping are doing that. Trying to help where they can. Rather than the "make(ing) it look like everyday business"

Quote
About the forum, I was just answering the silly suggestion of reporting each issue I got like somebody is going to read it and fix Avast accordingly.
Well, avast staff do read this forum, they do post here as well. This is the main method of contact between the users and them. If it is not reported how will anyone do anything about it?
Regardless of whether you think that they will read it or not, if it is not there, then it cannot be solved.

Anyway, this discussion is moot really, since you have moved on and don't want to solve your problems...

Scott
Title: Re: The consequence of poor testing
Post by: dagrev on February 26, 2012, 08:13:00 PM
Given the number of ongoing problems with the betas and the RC, I hate to admit that I believe the release was rushed just to meet the 23rd deadline.  Just so the release would be exactly one year from ver 6.  As a beta tester (and paid user) I followed the threads and noted my own problems.  In fact, I never got the finial ver 7 loaded properly on my main laptop even after countless rollbacks and clean installs and on top installs.  Given the number of issues that were happening up to the release and afterward I would have to think it was simply a little too quick.  I suspect a revision will be out soon validating this assumption.  Further I don't recall this number of ongoing issues with ver 6. 

The fact is (as had been said) if you should not update to the a version on top of the old--it shouldn't even be an option.  If one shouldn't do it, one shouldn't be asked or encouraged to do so with one simple click.  Have at auto uninstaller that must run first.  Seems kind of silly to give an option then complain that this was not the right thing to do.  There's simply no amount of talking that can make this sound like a good idea in the real world.

Having said that, where else can people go for this kind of full-featured great security software?  No one offers what avast! does, even if there is some rushed decision making going on.  I still think it's one of the very best paid options out there.  When one starts talking free--it's by far the best option.  Nothing comes close.  Nothing.
Title: Re: The consequence of poor testing
Post by: aztony on February 26, 2012, 09:52:11 PM
LorenzoC, I am in agreement with you. This issue cannot be blamed on the end user and, to do so is ridiculous. I am A+ certified and have been using avast! since the days of its player interface, and with each product revision I have always done an in program upgrade without issue....that is until this release. After upgrading my pc locked up and I had to do a manual reboot, but every time I restarted the system would lock again, ( how is that the end users fault?) I ended up rebooting into safe mode and uninstalling avast!, running 2 cleaners to scrub any remnant files and then rebooting to normal mode. I then downloaded V7 to my download folder and tried to do a clean install but the installer would not run (end user's fault no doubt) and I finally launched internet explorer to download and run V7 installation in the browser to get my A/V back.
 
I haven't lost faith in avast! and will continue to be a loyal user, but obviously something was awry here with this release.
Title: Re: The consequence of poor testing
Post by: BTIsaac on February 26, 2012, 09:58:11 PM
If I had to worry to crash my system every time I have applied an update I guess I would have beeen doing something else since long ago. It is NOT the world of computers. It is an exception, despite all the efforts on this forum to make it look everyday business.

Well, how should I know your computer has been crashing? You never said anything about what went wrong after all. If all you do is complain without providing any feedback, you are wasting people's time here.

Quote
About the forum, I was just answering the silly suggestion of reporting each issue I got like somebody is going to read it and fix Avast accordingly.

Exactly. Like I said, so far any bug that was reported on the forums was fixed a while after. But how should you know that, when you obviously never reported a single bug, beyond the fact that they exist.
Title: Re: The consequence of poor testing
Post by: Jack 1000 on February 27, 2012, 09:53:23 AM
Quote
What is happening nowadays is that "developers", "power users", "testers", etc are all on modern systems while there are still MANY common users who are on vintage systems. This creates a situation where the development and the testing diverge from the "real" user base. It is obviously made worse by the "release often" policy and the race among firms to add the "newest feature".

Agree 100%.  Was Avast 7 also pushed out to major businesses and corporations as well?  Or are they still on Version 6?

The biggest fear of poor testing is that people may have so many issues with the upgrade of any AV security software not properly tested, they can't install or the removal gets stuck.  They can't or don't know how to get into safe mode, and they think that there are so many issues, that they say, "screw it.  I don't need Anti-Virus"  and wind up with unprotected systems.

And that is a serious concern and something that no security company can take lightly.

Jack
Title: Re: The consequence of poor testing
Post by: LorenzoC on February 27, 2012, 10:45:18 AM
There are three groups here.
1. people who install Avast, get the multiple issues, have "faith" in Avast and then come on the forum trying to work around the issues. Regardless the efforts needed, regardless what the issues can be. These are the "fanboys".
2. people who install Avast, get the multiple issues, don't understand what is happening and call somebody else for support, this of course leads to the removal of Avast and its substitution with something else, because who ever does the support doesn't want to deal with unnecessary (and undocumented) issues.
3. people who install Avast, get the multiple issues, think "nice, they haven't tested this crap before pushing it as auto-update", get mad and disappointed, remove Avast and look for something else not because other products are technically better but because Avast isn't trustworthy. Once you don't trust a firm that should provide "security", you don't come to the forum looking for help and/or to help with fixing bugs.

On a side note: there is a well known nonsense trend, "security" bloated suites that make more harm than good.
The old "now with feature XYZ!" or "smarter, faster, more powerful than before".
But as soon as you understand a little bit of Windows systems, you want the exact opposite, the less crappy software possible installed on your PC. And when the new "gold-super-ultra-pro" version of any software cripples your PC and you need to perform an emergency recover in safe mode, you think twice before reinstalling it. Take a look at Avast 7 GUI.
Title: Re: The consequence of poor testing
Post by: CraigB on February 27, 2012, 10:53:40 AM
There are three groups here.
1. people who install Avast, get the multiple issues, have "faith" in Avast and then come on the forum trying to work around the issues. Regardless the efforts needed, regardless what the issues can be. These are the "fanboys".
2. people who install Avast, get the multiple issues, don't understand what is happening and call somebody else for support, this of course leads to the removal of Avast and its substitution with something else, because who ever does the support doesn't want to deal with unnecessary (and undocumented) issues.
3. people who install Avast, get the multiple issues, think "nice, they haven't tested this crap before pushing it as auto-update", get mad and disappointed, remove Avast and look for something else not because other products are technically better but because Avast isn't trustworthy. Once you don't trust a firm that should provide "security", you don't come to the forum looking for help and/or to help with fixing bugs.

On a side note: there is a well known nonsense trend, "security" bloated suites that make more harm than good.
The old "now with feature XYZ!" or "smarter, faster, more powerful than before".
But as soon as you understand a little bit of Windows systems, you want the exact opposite, the less crappy software possible installed on your PC. And when the new "gold-super-ultra-pro" version of any software cripples your PC and you need to perform an emergency recover in safe mode, you think twice before reinstalling it. Take a look at Avast 7 GUI.
I believe you've already stated your views previously so if your not willing to troubleshoot or not willing to use avast again because of some unforseen bugs that arose with the new release then kindly move on and stop your pathetic ranting.
Title: Re: The consequence of poor testing
Post by: BTIsaac on February 27, 2012, 11:01:43 AM
People, I suspect we're dealing with a troll here. I never thought I'll see one on a tech support forum, but there's no other logical explanation. The only reason this guy is here is to pick a fight and insult people using Avast.
Title: Re: The consequence of poor testing
Post by: .: L' arc :. on February 27, 2012, 02:25:18 PM
People, I suspect we're dealing with a troll here. I never thought I'll see one on a tech support forum, but there's no other logical explanation. The only reason this guy is here is to pick a fight and insult people using Avast.

I don't think he's a troll. He's a got a good point in the issues. His arguments are logical enough to be considered significant for avast's improvement.
Title: Re: The consequence of poor testing
Post by: Techtronic on February 27, 2012, 02:43:23 PM
Well maybe I am a "fanboy" since I installed avast IS 7 on 3 computers and did not encounter ANY issues! Maybe I was lucky or maybe the avast! team created this version just for me 8)


Here is my post from another thread:


"Wow! Just to bring some different perspective to this thread:

avast! manual update from v6 to v7 on 3 laptops running Win 7 Pro x64. Installed V7 on top of v6.

No issues at all! All the v6 settings were kept! Everything works!

Outlook 2010 mail: no issues!

All 3 laptops feel as fast or faster than before!

Internet browsing, no issues! Pages open as fast or faster than before!

Great job avast! team " :D
Title: Re: The consequence of poor testing
Post by: OisteinR on February 27, 2012, 03:03:45 PM
Avast Team????
Where the h... are they?
I've got 5 computers with Avast, and 4 of them acts ok, but the fifth - disaster.

There's no user error here, and as VLK stated in the first release post:
"Update from v6 should of course be also possible via the built-in program updater."

Everything went just fine until final release. I've been through all betas, without problems.


AVAST! where are you. Please tell us you are alive and well...

This is maybe the biggest disaster in Avast' history.

 :( :( :(
Title: Re: The consequence of poor testing
Post by: Paul Rodgers on February 27, 2012, 03:52:29 PM
There are three groups here.
1. people who install Avast, get the multiple issues, have "faith" in Avast and then come on the forum trying to work around the issues. Regardless the efforts needed, regardless what the issues can be. These are the "fanboys".
2. people who install Avast, get the multiple issues, don't understand what is happening and call somebody else for support, this of course leads to the removal of Avast and its substitution with something else, because who ever does the support doesn't want to deal with unnecessary (and undocumented) issues.
3. people who install Avast, get the multiple issues, think "nice, they haven't tested this crap before pushing it as auto-update", get mad and disappointed, remove Avast and look for something else not because other products are technically better but because Avast isn't trustworthy. Once you don't trust a firm that should provide "security", you don't come to the forum looking for help and/or to help with fixing bugs.

On a side note: there is a well known nonsense trend, "security" bloated suites that make more harm than good.
The old "now with feature XYZ!" or "smarter, faster, more powerful than before".
But as soon as you understand a little bit of Windows systems, you want the exact opposite, the less crappy software possible installed on your PC. And when the new "gold-super-ultra-pro" version of any software cripples your PC and you need to perform an emergency recover in safe mode, you think twice before reinstalling it. Take a look at Avast 7 GUI.

If you don't want to use avast and are just coming here to slam a product when there are many people that aren't having issues then I think you need to leave.

There are many users out there that aren't having problems and are therefore not coming to the forums. The negative reviews will always outweigh the positive on a support forum because not many people write reviews on good products.

By the way you forgot the group of people without problems with the new version, the group of people that had problems and fixed them and are now helping others, and the group of people that had no problems and are helping other with their problems.
Title: Re: The consequence of poor testing
Post by: n01clueless on February 27, 2012, 04:28:33 PM

By the way you forgot the group of people without problems with the new version, the group of people that had problems and fixed them and are now helping others, and the group of people that had no problems and are helping other with their problems.

You also have failed to mention the most significant group of all, and that is the hordes of Avast users who have experienced problems but do not have the requisite skills to sort them out themselves and who now have either a computer that isn't functioning properly or have had to dig into their pockets to get the problem(s) sorted.
Title: Re: The consequence of poor testing
Post by: BTIsaac on February 27, 2012, 06:29:27 PM
I don't think he's a troll. He's a got a good point in the issues. His arguments are logical enough to be considered significant for avast's improvement.

What points? The only points he made were complaining about vague issues with v7, but refusing to specify them, insisting that the devs ignore any error reports from their users and treating it as a fact, and calling everyone who didn't immediately remove Avast from their computer and switch to another AV after v7 a "fanboy".

In fact he pretty much stated himself that his only intention with this thread was to tell us that Avast sucks, and we suck for using it. That's a textbook case of trolling right there.
Title: Re: The consequence of poor testing
Post by: Lisandro on February 28, 2012, 12:12:43 AM
We're working very very hard to follow the most active forum... You users are keeping us, users as well, quite busy :)
Title: Re: The consequence of poor testing
Post by: Dch48 on February 28, 2012, 12:33:05 AM
There are three groups here.
1. people who install Avast, get the multiple issues, have "faith" in Avast and then come on the forum trying to work around the issues. Regardless the efforts needed, regardless what the issues can be. These are the "fanboys".
2. people who install Avast, get the multiple issues, don't understand what is happening and call somebody else for support, this of course leads to the removal of Avast and its substitution with something else, because who ever does the support doesn't want to deal with unnecessary (and undocumented) issues.
3. people who install Avast, get the multiple issues, think "nice, they haven't tested this crap before pushing it as auto-update", get mad and disappointed, remove Avast and look for something else not because other products are technically better but because Avast isn't trustworthy. Once you don't trust a firm that should provide "security", you don't come to the forum looking for help and/or to help with fixing bugs.
This is  completely wrong. There is a 4th and probably largest group. That is the people who upgraded to v7 and have had none of the problems. I upgraded all 3 of the machines here without a hitch and did every one through the updating feature in the GUI. Not only that but 2 of them have subsequently been upgraded to the full AIS suite also through the GUI without having to even download the installation file. There are a few small glitches such as the gadget breaking auto sandbox exclusions, Safe Zone browser not remembering settings, and issues downloading things with IE in the sandbox but none of these are gamebreakers. Just don't use the gadget for now and if running IE sandboxed, just let downloads go to the default downloads folder. 

I have experienced none of the other issues being reported by people. You are trying to make it seem that everybody has those problems and it's simply not the case at all.
Title: Re: The consequence of poor testing
Post by: Lisandro on February 28, 2012, 01:43:41 AM
There are three groups here.
1. people who install Avast, get the multiple issues, have "faith" in Avast and then come on the forum trying to work around the issues. Regardless the efforts needed, regardless what the issues can be. These are the "fanboys".
2. people who install Avast, get the multiple issues, don't understand what is happening and call somebody else for support, this of course leads to the removal of Avast and its substitution with something else, because who ever does the support doesn't want to deal with unnecessary (and undocumented) issues.
3. people who install Avast, get the multiple issues, think "nice, they haven't tested this crap before pushing it as auto-update", get mad and disappointed, remove Avast and look for something else not because other products are technically better but because Avast isn't trustworthy. Once you don't trust a firm that should provide "security", you don't come to the forum looking for help and/or to help with fixing bugs.

On a side note: there is a well known nonsense trend, "security" bloated suites that make more harm than good.
The old "now with feature XYZ!" or "smarter, faster, more powerful than before".
But as soon as you understand a little bit of Windows systems, you want the exact opposite, the less crappy software possible installed on your PC. And when the new "gold-super-ultra-pro" version of any software cripples your PC and you need to perform an emergency recover in safe mode, you think twice before reinstalling it. Take a look at Avast 7 GUI.
Sorry to disagree. There are tons of people here that are not fanboys and are trying to help. Do not forget that we're in the good boys side and releasing a free application to 200 million users.
Title: Re: The consequence of poor testing
Post by: .: L' arc :. on February 28, 2012, 07:47:56 AM
@BTIsaac: Because a lot of us can actually sort out most problems in avast, we tend to consider his dilemma as something so trivial that we no longer listen to his side and instead, we forced him to change his opinion--which defeats the purpose of calling it an "opinion".
Title: Re: The consequence of poor testing
Post by: LorenzoC on February 28, 2012, 09:29:56 AM
This thread started as a mix of rant and bug reporting. Yes, both useless because the issues are/were so obvious.

The only answer that would have made sense and that would have ended the thread as well should have been:
"Yes there are some serious issues in the newly released v.7. They are working on it, meaniwhile you are advised to not update from v. 6 either to update to v.7 by manually uninstalling v.6 and performing a clean install of v.7."

Instead they were:
"Did you uninstall v6 with the tool before upgrading to v7? That is a recommended way to upgrade instead of an in place upgrade."
(Nonsense #1 - I have written above I have installed v.7, it failed and I have removed it in Safe Mode. Like MANY other people.).

"I am not sure why people are so quick to give up, when most the time it is user error"
(Nonsense #2 - most of the time it is user error? Involuntary self-irony. )

"I think Avast does a marvelous job of testing!"
(Nonsense #3 - Yeah right)

And this goes on forever, here is another example:
"I have experienced none of the other issues being reported by people"
(Nonsense #n - Like it matters if 70% or 80% or 90% people don't get any problem or haven't seen it yet when there are still 30% or 20% or 10% with a crippled PC)

I have said above the reason why I find this unacceptable. The magnitude of the issues met this time clearly show that the testing was inadequate. We aren't speaking of a bug like the "Script Shield" that is not working with Firefox like on v.6, here Avast failed to install and failed to uninstall, requiring the Safe Mode removal (plus all the other issues I am not mentioning).  And when it comes to tools like Avast there is a point where you become not trustworthy any more. Once v.7 fails that bad, I am not going to install it again until it gets fixed. If ever.

Avast is not a toy for me and I am not involved with its development. I don't find any rewarding in working around issues or in following the progression as new features mature, bug are squashed, Avast becomes stable. It is just a tool that must do its job and stay out of my way. Which BTW leads to the said trend of adding questionable or useless features. If you ask me, I would trade all the "advanced - new features" and even a lower detection rate for a software that just works.
Title: Re: The consequence of poor testing
Post by: lukas.hasik on February 28, 2012, 11:08:23 AM
to close this thread :
1, avast does test the program before releasing and there are beta testers involved
2, avast 7 has some problems
3, the "program update" problem had nothing to do with program itself. It affected the distribution servers and then the corrupted distribution package screw up avast update mechanism during program update
4, updating program from previous one is preffered way. It's simplier for users and it should work. If it doesn't let us know as it is a BUG that HAS TO be fixed
5, I understand your frustration. I hope that we'll prove in near future that avast is really reliable product and these problems were caused by an unfortunate coincidence (it seems that they like to come in dozens)

thank you for all the reports
Title: Re: The consequence of poor testing
Post by: n01clueless on February 28, 2012, 11:22:21 AM
So, it takes 4 days for someone from Avast to admit there have been problems and to show some, albeit very limited, contrition, and still no actual apology for the inconvenience, and worse, that many users have encountered. Customer service would appear to be fairly low on their list of priorities.
Title: Re: The consequence of poor testing
Post by: AntiVirusASeT on February 28, 2012, 11:59:24 AM
IF customer service is poor, Avast! would have left u out in the cold. have a look at the forums, they are answering/helping with diagnosis as much as they can...

mind u, do not count the weekends. everyone needs a break, period.
Title: Re: The consequence of poor testing
Post by: Lisandro on February 28, 2012, 12:35:53 PM
Customer service would appear to be fairly low on their list of priorities.
Nobody thinks this way. We acknowledged the problem and solved is as soon as we can. We also tried to provide the most valuable help to all users in forums.
Title: Re: The consequence of poor testing
Post by: aztony on February 28, 2012, 06:13:46 PM
Quote
1. people who install Avast, get the multiple issues, have "faith" in Avast and then come on the forum trying to work around the issues. Regardless the efforts needed, regardless what the issues can be. These are the "fanboys".

And then there people like me who've used other A/V programs from Mcafee to Norton to ZoneAlarm (all paid versions) and discovered that Avast! (given away for free) is as good or better hands down. If that makes me a 'fanboy' so be it.

Avast! does many things good, and have for many years. Since doing a clean install, and having reinstalled PrivateFirewall after its initial resentment of V7, both have settled back into their unobtrusive, vigilant sentinel roles as if nothing untoward had occurred. I will not let this anomaly detract from what has been a solid A/V product.