Author Topic: US Presidential Election survey???  (Read 27019 times)

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Offline ManyQs

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Re: US Presidential Election survey???
« Reply #60 on: November 11, 2012, 01:28:19 AM »
The answer to your question is very simple: NO

Then the company shouldn't be doing it, right?

Let's put it in this light.  A new person to the Internet and one not so versed in the ways of the Internet has just been told that this company has a good security product and trusts his/her friend and so trusts this company.  They signed up for Avast a couple of weeks ago.  Suddenly they see their security company putting that survey up there and they do remember what their trusted friend had said about not clicking on strange things, but wait ... THIS is their trusted security company introduced to them by a trusted individual.  Must be okay.  Bingo! -- A sucker sucked into what!?

And you also made note of something, bob3160, which concerns me and is the reason I asked the question about what this company's definition of "anonymous" is. 

Not replying to the question and not completing the survey keeps your IP  off the radar.

You stated what I think is what you believe and what worried me from the get-go -- concerns about the IP address. 

How far along in that data packet you put on the Internet when you did that survey (if you did) does one's IP address follow the data you inputted?  That is the number one question, if I may be so bold.  Obviously, bob3160, it is of some concern to you, too.  So we have similar thoughts on one point.

Now you might see the situation about the trusted friend introducing the trusted company to a novice as where others may have some concerns about another aspect of this business.

Oh yes, and these two concerns outlined above have nothing to do with politics and is why I indicated earlier this is not off-topic for being right here where it is.

This is a topic generated by the company because the company, the CEO, allowed this event to take place. 

... ... ... ... ...

AND, polonus, thank you for your clarification and I apologize for being quite harsh with my words.  I'll reflect on my misdeed and try to be more careful in future.

.. ... ... ... ...

EDIT to fix the thread topic title!  That was not nice somebody!!  This IS NOT ABOUT THE FRIGGIN' ELECTION!!!!!!!!!!!!
« Last Edit: November 11, 2012, 01:46:26 AM by ManyQs »

Offline polonus

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Re: US Presidential Election survey???
« Reply #61 on: November 11, 2012, 02:00:36 AM »
Hi ManyQs,

Again you have to consider "the trivial environment of social networking" in which this was presented. This is what we get back from initiatives like twitter, facebook and SurveyMonkey like to operate in these "realms" because it is "loose and casual". That is why I personally do not participate in facebook and twitter etc. for instance because of implications that youngsters often forget and may work against them later. I think the informal presentation is a point to consider.
The informal nature of social internet makes it easier for users to participate. What should we say? This needs more awareness. This is like it is and it is a sign of the times. Or everybody on the net is doing this, so why not?

polonus
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Offline bob3160

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Re: US Presidential Election survey???
« Reply #62 on: November 11, 2012, 02:04:10 AM »
Quote
How far along in that data packet you put on the Internet when you did that survey (if you did) does one's IP address follow the data you inputted?  That is the number one question, if I may be so bold.  Obviously,bob3160, it is of some concern to you, too.  So we have similar thoughts on one point.
I didn't take the survey.
I also don't care about IP tracking. If I did, I wouldn't be on the internet. :)
I certainly wouldn't make all the posts about where I am and what I'm doing in the following thread:
http://forum.avast.com/index.php?topic=78426.msg647360#msg647360

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Offline ManyQs

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Re: US Presidential Election survey???
« Reply #63 on: November 11, 2012, 02:16:36 AM »
Quote
How far along in that data packet you put on the Internet when you did that survey (if you did) does one's IP address follow the data you inputted?  That is the number one question, if I may be so bold.  Obviously,bob3160, it is of some concern to you, too.  So we have similar thoughts on one point.
I didn't take the survey.
I also don't care about IP tracking. If I did, I wouldn't be on the internet. :)
I certainly wouldn't make all the posts about where I am and what I'm doing in the following thread:
http://forum.avast.com/index.php?topic=78426.msg647360#msg647360

Fair enough.

But there are some that don't yet know the ins-and-outs and may get suckered into something they wouldn't allow themselves to get suckered into if they knew.  Those are the people a security company should be most interested in helping.

And in all fairness to the CEO, Vincent Steckler, that survey might have been all a bunch of fun stuff and no third-party received any information as the information was sent to wherever it was sent -- the Avast server only? -- it may have all been in fun, fun, fun, BUT I think a little more disclosure in that Blog post would have been a tad bit more PR savvy.  Coming right out and stating in a direct way a person's IP address was immediately changed to some kind of code that could in no way be tracked back to the original IP address would have been a smart move.  IF that is the case.  Or some other kind of programming that dumped the IP address.  I mean, it's obvious the IP address has to be dumped somehow, or that is a problem, no?

Anyway, bob3160, I got your point about your own concerns.

Me, I'm concerned about the person that's not concerned about the novice.

... ... ... ... ...

EDIT to clarify my own views.
« Last Edit: November 11, 2012, 02:19:29 AM by ManyQs »

Offline bob3160

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Re: US Presidential Election survey???
« Reply #64 on: November 11, 2012, 04:08:18 AM »
My last point.
There isn't anything that would have been exposed by any one taking that survey that isn't already exposed
simply by using the internet.
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Offline ManyQs

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Re: US Presidential Election survey???
« Reply #65 on: November 11, 2012, 04:41:21 AM »
Nothing that wouldn't already have been known except possibly an individual's political leanings matched with a static IP address.

And what about that novice that didn't know they shouldn't have done the survey?  That's no big deal?

Yeah, to hell with the novice that doesn't know any better.  Best they learn the hard way.  And via their Internet Security Service.  Best way to learn those hard lessons.  Through the ones you thought you could trust.

ATCs used to have an expression about that, but I don't know about these days.  After that US president fella fired all of them they may be more politically correct in thier style.   

Offline bob3160

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Re: US Presidential Election survey???
« Reply #66 on: November 11, 2012, 04:48:21 AM »
Sorry but I think you're going totally off base.
Ip address is known the second you use the computer on line.
Political affiliation is known the second you register to vote.
Neither of these 2 items are important or dangerous peaces of information to reveal.

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Offline polonus

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Re: US Presidential Election survey???
« Reply #67 on: November 11, 2012, 01:18:28 PM »
Hi ManyQs,

Also bob3160 has some valid points. Everybody that goes on the Internet as it is being run to-day should always have at the back of his/her/it's head that he/she or it is "fully transparent". We should not be "lulled asleep". Check your IP info here: http://www.clientip.net and this is only a benevolent service, malcreants get loads and loads more of  info. Your complete surfing history can easily be reconstructed, and all these "interrelated" data are being used. But the same trails you leave everywhere when you do things in the virtual world, using a credit card, using your shop club card, paying in the supestore for instance help them to know what to order and when and in what quantities. You have smart meters, you have pin-pointed geo-location. If you do not want to be part of this "grid", seek a cage of Faraday or step out of the virtual world alltogether. Banks do not have cashiers anymore, so you may meet with some problems there.
Agree with you, ManyQs, that a lot of youngsters are not fully aware of these facts all the time and all of the time and later it could be that they cannot apply for a job as  they could feel the reverse effects of their facebook history and what they might have put online as a 13 year old. So yes, what you do online you do "in public". Going online is never a private thing and it never has been.
That is why a lot of users try to use anonymizing services like proxies like vtunnel etc. They again should be aware that all they do there is being logged as everything on the net is being logged. About the survey etc. I do not know anything about it, all that would be pure speculation....

polonus
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Offline ManyQs

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Re: US Presidential Election survey???
« Reply #68 on: November 11, 2012, 03:25:07 PM »
Sorry but I think you're going totally off base.
Ip address is known the second you use the computer on line.
Political affiliation is known the second you register to vote.
Neither of these 2 items are important or dangerous peaces of information to reveal.

It's a shame there are folks that have folded and have given in to big business or even Homeland Security and don't think there's any need to defend an individual's right to protection from those that would abuse data mining.

I'm not sure, but there might be something from the EU on the subject in this directive: http://europa.eu/legislation_summaries/information_society/data_protection/l14012_en.htm

It is rather ironic, too, that this very company chose to publicize some sort of information related to data mining, although I'm still waiting to find out where that information is stored.

That is, I'm waiting for some answers here: http://forum.avast.com/index.php?topic=109142.0

And I'll provide the link now to that article I alluded to in an earlier post in this thread:

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/10/28/us/politics/tracking-clicks-online-to-try-to-sway-voters.html?pagewanted=all

And a snippet from that article from the New York Times which points to some other folks actually having some concerns:

Quote

... ... ... truncated ... ... ...
 
There is growing concern that the campaigns or third-party trackers may later use that voter data for purposes the public never imagined, like excluding someone from a job offer based on his or her past political affiliations.

“Is the data going to be sold to marketers or shared with other campaigns?” said Christopher Calabrese, the legislative counsel for privacy-related issues at the American Civil Liberties Union. “We simply don’t know how this information is going to be used in the future and where it is going to end up.”

... ... ... truncated ... ... ...



Oh well, to each his/her own. 

I think, though, it's a good thing there are some that have not thrown in their cards and left the table.

Offline bob3160

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Re: US Presidential Election survey???
« Reply #69 on: November 11, 2012, 03:47:45 PM »
Actually, if you're on the internet, you are already on the radar screen.
There isn't any way to avoid it.
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Offline Kilia

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Re: US Presidential Election survey???
« Reply #70 on: November 11, 2012, 07:01:35 PM »
Here is a small program I use quite alot for domain and IP information. It's an oldie but a goodie and it's free.

http://www.karenware.com/powertools/ptwhois.asp