Author Topic: avast & norton conflicts  (Read 28519 times)

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Offline teknojnky

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avast & norton conflicts
« on: May 19, 2005, 05:25:30 PM »
I must say, that after hearing such great things about avast, that I am extremely disappointed to find out that the program will not work correct if norton antivirus/systemworks is installed.

Heck just searching for 'norton' returns 42 *pages* of results.

Many of the posts are full of FUD recommending complete uninstallation of NAV in order to get avast to work correctly... however its amazing that NAV works correctly even if avast is installed but simply disabled.

I think its unacceptable to require 'uninstallation' of a competing product when simply disabling it should be sufficient. I am not going to go thru the hassle of trying to uninstall a perfectly working nav (which is part of my systemworks) just to (fully) try out avast.

So, consider this a lost customer post, because I refuse to support software which does not play nice with other software.

And please, don't repeat the countless posts about multiple AV conflicting, yes I know there may be conflicts if both are ACTIVE at the same time, however disabling one should sufficient.

If you can't design it to work correctly with NAV (or any other AV) installed but disabled, I guess thats too bad for your company and too bad for your lost potential customers.
 
:(

Offline DavidR

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Re: avast & norton conflicts
« Reply #1 on: May 19, 2005, 05:32:56 PM »
As you have seen this forums is littered with the debris of norton remaining even after it was supposedly removed.

Quote
So, consider this a lost customer post, because I refuse to support software which does not play nice with other software.

That is your choice and your loss in my opinion and many on these forums who have switched from nroton.Then you should ditch norton as there are numerous programs that it conflicts with.
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Offline connie

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Re: avast & norton conflicts
« Reply #2 on: May 19, 2005, 05:44:45 PM »
tossing in a couple of cents  :)

It would be nice if Norton would make Systemworks so that you could choose which parts of it you want installed.    That way you caould install all EXCEPT the virus scanner part of it and would be able to use Avast with it.   

It is possible..     for instance a program made by Vcom called Fixit Utilities.     You do NOT have to just install the entire thing..   you can choose which parts of it you DO want installed.    Ive used it for several years now and like it...  when installing it I do not allow it to install the virus scanner part of it.     So...  no conflicts.

David..      I do not use, and have not had my hands on a system with Systemworks installed on it.     Is it not even possible to disable the virus scanner?      And,    if it is possible does it still conflict with avast?

Offline teknojnky

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Re: avast & norton conflicts
« Reply #3 on: May 19, 2005, 05:53:48 PM »
As you have seen this forums is littered with the debris of norton remaining even after it was supposedly removed.

Yes, I will surely admit that norton/symantec has issues with uninstallation and what not.. that however does not excuse the issue of not making avast compatible with an existing NAV (or any other problematic program) in the first place.

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That is your choice and your loss in my opinion and many on these forums who have switched from nroton.Then you should ditch norton as there are numerous programs that it conflicts with.

I've been using norton products since the dos days, and while there have certainly been various issues with them at differrent points, my current system works perfectly and I haven't seen any conflicts with it for years.

Further, while I am quite technically oriented and fully capable of exterminating norton from my system, my issue is more a philosphical one.

Your software refuses to play nice.

@ Connie, yes you can disable the AV portion via the systemworks/antivirus options. This should be sufficient to enable use of any other AV products.

Imagine the problems if various defrag or anti spyware programs would not work if they detected competing programs?!!?

Offline DavidR

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Re: avast & norton conflicts
« Reply #4 on: May 19, 2005, 05:55:06 PM »
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David..      I do not use, and have not had my hands on a system with Systemworks installed on it.     Is it not even possible to disable the virus scanner?      And,    if it is possible does it still conflict with avast?
I don't use it either, and my only knowledge of it is here on the forums and as far as I can recollect there is no individual component uninstall but I believe you can choose not to install a component on the custom install.

Unfortunately it's not the installation which could use some flexibility as virtually everyone is going to go for the default install, which will have all components installed. What needs to be flexible is the uninstall so individual components can be uninstalled.

So may be possible to uninstall Norton Systemworks and do a custom install excluding the AV component. This however, is not from first hand experience.

None of this is likely to suit 'teknojnky.'
WinXP ProSP3/ Core2Duo E8300/ 4GB Ram/ avast! free 18.5.2342/ Firefox ESR, uBlock Origin, uMatrix/ MailWasher Pro7.11.0/ DropMyRights/ WinPatrol+/ Drive Image 7.1/ SnagIt 10.0/ avast! mobile security
Windows 10 Home 1909 64bit/ Acer Aspire F15/ Intel Core i5 7200U 2.5GHz, 8GB DDR4 memory, 256GB SSD, 1TB HDD/ avast! free 19.8.2393 (build 19.8.4793.544) UI-1.0.415/ WinPatrol+/ Firefox, uBlock Origin, uMatrix/ MailWasher Pro7.11.0/ WinPatrol+/

Offline connie

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Re: avast & norton conflicts
« Reply #5 on: May 19, 2005, 05:58:00 PM »
teknojnky -   my Isp -  cox cable..   has new software for its high speed customers.   It includes a firewall, virus scanner, popupblocker, spywareblocker,  etc.     The instructions for installing their software tell you specifically to UNINSTALL  all of the aforementioned you already have on your system.     This INCLUDES the spywaresoftware.     SOOOOO  I do not need to imagine that scenario.    It already  (stupidly imho exists)     

also..   avast is not the only virus software out here that "conflicts" with other virus software on the system.     Its well known there will be compatibility issues if you have TWO virus programs installed on your system.     You DID make note of your awareness of this in your first message   :) :) :)       So your last one just confused me  :)     

David   *nods*   agree with you last comment   :)
« Last Edit: May 19, 2005, 06:01:02 PM by connie »

Offline RejZoR

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Re: avast & norton conflicts
« Reply #6 on: May 19, 2005, 06:02:30 PM »
Lets clear something up...

First of all,AVs don't play nice with eachother,so don't expect that NAV and avast! will work ok together.
Second,you should decide which one to use. NAV or avast!.
SystemWorks package clearly allows separate installation of components including NAV. Other parts of package are not affected.
So don't blame avast! if Symantec product doesn't work with it.
It's obvious that you'll have to remove one or another.
AVs were never meant to run with others,unless if they were build from ground up with dual engine scanning in mind (like F-Secure does or AVK with 2 simultaneous scan engines in one product)
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Offline connie

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Re: avast & norton conflicts
« Reply #7 on: May 19, 2005, 06:05:21 PM »

Unfortunately it's not the installation which could use some flexibility as virtually everyone is going to go for the default install, which will have all components installed. What needs to be flexible is the uninstall so individual components can be uninstalled.
 

Exactly..      am able to do so with Fixit and have done so over time after being comfortable with the program and knowing what parts of it I do not need/want.     

Offline connie

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Re: avast & norton conflicts
« Reply #8 on: May 19, 2005, 06:06:19 PM »
RejZor       thank you     ;) :)

Offline teknojnky

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Re: avast & norton conflicts
« Reply #9 on: May 19, 2005, 06:16:46 PM »
In most cases, simply disabling said software is sufficient to installing and using alternative products.

I feel I should further qualify my original post and responses.

I initially came across avast when looking for x64 compatible AV, a friend recommended it to me and had mentioned he had used it for a year or more and like it alot.

Since avast is one of the few, if not only, currently available x64 compatible AV products, I decided to try it out on my new system.

After using it a few weeks, I decided to try it out on my older system which has a perfectly working systemworks 2002. A few of the reasons I wanted to do this is because the update subscription would be expiring again soon and I wanted a more current AV product and I don't honestly use systemworks often enough to justify paying 70-100 for a complete new version or somewhat less for just NAV itself.

So, this leaves me in the unenviable position of having to uninstall/exterminate NAV from my systemworks and/or uninstalling the entire systemworks package simply to use Avast.

If at some point I wanted to revert to NAV/systemworks, I would then have to go thru yet more hassle to reinstall and reupdate thru several years worth of updates, or alternatively to do a complete backup/restore as appropriate.

All of which would be completely unnecessary if avast (and maybe other products, I don't know) would be compatible or satisfied with NAV being disabled instead of completely uninstalled.

And while I understand that my thread will not automagically make avast more compatible for me, I do hope to raise the concern and hope the developers take the (obviously common) situation of customers having both NAV and avast installed at the same time into account for future releases.

In this age of 'modern' software, there really is no excuse for programs walking over each other in this manner.

Offline RejZoR

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Re: avast & norton conflicts
« Reply #10 on: May 19, 2005, 06:31:21 PM »
Now, as a software expert i disagree with you.
AVs are very delicate stuff. They are not just programs. They are programs that work on low level (driver level). So it's very hard to make them NOT to walk over eachother.
Some do work ok with others (like avast! and NOD32,just one or another needs to have disabled HTTP scanner),but NAV has problems with nearly all antiviruses on market. Thats because Symantec programmers decided to integrate its core components deep into windows,thus not allowing other programs(AVs) to operate correctly. Lets make long story short...
It's not avast!'s fault that doesn't work with NAV,but NAV's fault.
Get rid of one or another. Every AV recommends(at install point) to remove all currently installed AVs before installing them.
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Offline Kamulko!

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Re: avast & norton conflicts
« Reply #11 on: May 19, 2005, 07:40:20 PM »
Ok, I'm NOT a programmer but I had Systemworks (without NAV) installed in 2003, 2004, 2005. I have not interest in say lies: Norton suite is simply TOO INVASIVE, like a cancer. It make extremely difficult to make "scannerizable" many part of his (and others)components and files. Every time I have uninstalled it after a lot of problems. Is not only my personal experience. Like I said a couple of time in other parts of the forum, I work in a place with over 4500 machines. Well, the "official" Av is XXXXXXX but many persons use to install also their preferred AV. Imagine: 4500 users and how many preferences in AV softwares!!!  Well, the truth is this: only the "NAV lovers" keep it (without other AVs) installed. We are a University. We also have an Hospital were I work in a office. Ok, we have our Institute of Computer Sciences and Informatics: our technicals and engineers confirm it. NAV is not perfectly compatible with the most of other AV software. Now you can say wat you want... but have you the same knowledge of over
200 developing engineers and thousands and thousands experienced students? (some parts were deleted: privacy )
« Last Edit: May 20, 2005, 05:06:18 PM by Kamulko! »

Offline Lisandro

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Re: avast & norton conflicts
« Reply #12 on: May 19, 2005, 07:55:01 PM »
I do hope to raise the concern and hope the developers take the (obviously common) situation of customers having both NAV and avast installed at the same time into account for future releases.
Systemworks except NAV is perfectly compatible with avast.
NAV is incompatible with ANY OTHER antivirus. I give up on NAV...
avast! is compatible with other non-resident scanners (and in some cases, to experienced users, to AVG resident). Never with NAV.
But, on contrary, I'll say and ask that avast! never become 'compatible' with NAV. It's worthless. NAV is a resource hog and, like Kamulko said, TOO INVASIVE. Left behind tons of files and registry keys messing all Windows installations. I have to remove NAV from a lot of computers. I never regret. Tomorrow, I'll have more four computers of a friend of mine converted to avast!  ;)
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Offline igor

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Re: avast & norton conflicts
« Reply #13 on: May 19, 2005, 08:03:05 PM »
I think its unacceptable to require 'uninstallation' of a competing product when simply disabling it should be sufficient.

So, consider this a lost customer post, because I refuse to support software which does not play nice with other software.

Sorry, teknojnky, but you are wrong. This has really nothing to do with "competing products". As Rejzor said, antivirus software are low level programs - and the programs conflict with each other beause of  the principle they are based on. So, having 2 AV programs installed together is calling for troubles. Even though you may think disabling is enough, it is not. It may work for a while, for a particular configuration and settings, but it is likely to cause troubles sooner or later - freeze your computer, cause bluescreens (with the obvious consequences, such as corrupting the data on your disk, loosing the unsaved work, etc.)
We simply don't want to take that risk. It's better to show a warning message and disable certain parts of avast! than explain the user why he cannot boot the computer anymore (i.e. "why avast! completely crashes his OS" - because that's what they'd think).

Sometimes, "false positives" might occur, such as when some Symantec products is announced as NAV even though it's not. We would like to avoid that, of course, but the presence of NAV (or other AV software) is not so easy to detect - we look for specific drivers, but sometimes the company uses a driver with the same name in different products...  or, they don't remove the drivers even though they don't use them anymore, etc. :-\

Offline Lisandro

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Re: avast & norton conflicts
« Reply #14 on: May 19, 2005, 08:14:33 PM »
Sometimes, "false positives" might occur, such as when some Symantec products is announced as NAV even though it's not. We would like to avoid that, of course, but the presence of NAV (or other AV software) is not so easy to detect - we look for specific drivers, but sometimes the company uses a driver with the same name in different products...  or, they don't remove the drivers even though they don't use them anymore, etc. :-\
Igor, just to confirm. For me, avast! is perfectly compatible (withour 'false positive' detection of NAV) with both Norton Systemworks 2004 and 2005.
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