Author Topic: Emergency Update 2013-11-21?  (Read 105024 times)

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Offline DavidR

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Re: Emergency Update 2013-11-21?
« Reply #195 on: December 28, 2013, 05:31:53 PM »
I still have a 20131224 entry in my RunOnce key because I haven't rebooted since 8 days ago.

Avast isn't relying upon reboots now for regular updates, is it (i.e., de-emphasizing the "emergency" part)?  That would be wrong for people who don't regularly reboot.

I gave up on the old red herring (causing component damage) about not shutting down every day  a very long time ago. So no issue with it running on my system, but obviously if you have something running 24/7 then you are going to have to workout some action (periodic reboot) to cater for emupdate entry waiting to RunOnce.

Secondary question:  I hope things are not going to be screwed up by running an outdated emupdate executable after having received other updates the normal way?  This fear may not be founded because I do see that the date on the executable is 12/28 at 3:07 this morning, even though the entry has been there since the 24th.

My guess is this shouldn't cause an issue as the RunOnce registry entry should have the path to the latest emupdate executable in the emupdate sub-folder.
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Offline DavidR

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Re: Emergency Update 2013-11-21?
« Reply #196 on: December 28, 2013, 05:37:24 PM »
There are also two sub-folders for two of the emupdate executables, neither of which match the latest emupdate executable in the emupdate sub-folder.

I manually removed that empty subfolder with random name a couple of weeks ago (I only had one of them).

Yes I too did some housekeeping after the emupdate around the November time related to the start of this topic, yet since then the new folders in setup have returned (as in my earlier image attachments). That said the sub-folders have x86 and x64 sub-folders, but they are all empty.

Clearly the creation process of the new emergency update executable isn't cleaning up the old folders/files. This is something that avast has to address.
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Offline Harikrishnan

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Re: Emergency Update 2013-11-21?
« Reply #197 on: December 28, 2013, 05:48:52 PM »
Today I received avast emergency update(32) and i have to configure my windows7 firewall control to allow the update. I have enabled 'avast emergency update' in widows7 firewall and also in win7 firewall control, but every time the update comes as a new one as update 30,31,32.. and i have to configure my firewall each time..why? and any solution....?
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Offline Tetsuo

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Re: Emergency Update 2013-11-21?
« Reply #198 on: December 28, 2013, 08:17:03 PM »
That said the sub-folders have x86 and x64 sub-folders, but they are all empty.

The folder I mentioned in my previous post had the same empty subfolders (Win XP). It has not returned since then, though.

Offline NoelC

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Re: Emergency Update 2013-11-21?
« Reply #199 on: December 28, 2013, 08:48:20 PM »
obviously if you have something running 24/7 then you are going to have to workout some action (periodic reboot) to cater for emupdate entry waiting to RunOnce.

I appreciate your comment, but just to be clear, are you saying there is a necessity to do this, or just that rebooting would clear out the RunOnce operation (which really goes without saying)?

I don't give a darn if there's a RunOnce operation pending if it's not actually necessary to keep Avast running in tip top shape.  It does not bother me.

However, if a regular reboot by design IS necessary, then the product needs to be redesigned, as there really are machines that are required for 24/7 operation, and Windows actually IS quite capable of running indefinitely between reboots.

Perhaps this is a fundamental difference between server and client versions of the product.  If that's the case I should like to know it.

-Noel

Offline DavidR

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Re: Emergency Update 2013-11-21?
« Reply #200 on: December 28, 2013, 08:57:22 PM »
obviously if you have something running 24/7 then you are going to have to workout some action (periodic reboot) to cater for emupdate entry waiting to RunOnce.

I appreciate your comment, but just to be clear, are you saying there is a necessity to do this, or just that rebooting would clear out the RunOnce operation (which really goes without saying)?

I don't give a darn if there's a RunOnce operation pending if it's not actually necessary to keep Avast running in tip top shape.  It does not bother me.

However, if a regular reboot by design IS necessary, then the product needs to be redesigned, as there really are machines that are required for 24/7 operation, and Windows actually IS quite capable of running indefinitely between reboots.

Perhaps this is a fundamental difference between server and client versions of the product.  If that's the case I should like to know it.

I can't tell you if it is a necessity or not as I'm just an avast user like you - Lets put it this way, if you have a RunOnce entry for this it hasn't run.

By its nature emergency update, I would say it is necessary.

You will find many programs use the windows RunOnce function.
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Offline NoelC

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Re: Emergency Update 2013-11-21?
« Reply #201 on: December 28, 2013, 09:11:35 PM »
Thanks, but I'm up to date on how Windows runs things.

And no, there are not a lot of things I normally do that result in RunOnce entries being created other than software installations initiated by me, which are infrequent.  I watch my system with Autoruns, among other methods.  I do not know of a program right now that expects the system to have to be rebooted in order to work properly.

I don't believe that the presence of an emergency updater implies anything other than Avast! is maintaining an opportunity to ensure its installation is safe and sound at startup.  The Avast UI implies it's completely up to date...



If it isn't actually up to date, despite the above, then the product has a problem.

Please don't speculate.  I can do that on my own.  :)

-Noel

Offline DavidR

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Re: Emergency Update 2013-11-21?
« Reply #202 on: December 28, 2013, 09:23:20 PM »
Yes, and you are doing a lot of speculation.

The fact that a program is up to date (program and virus definitions) really has no bearing on underlying functioning. That is why the emergency update was added so that elements could be fixed/updated with requiring the user to do a program update.

The fix for the web shield and downloads that effected some users was one such instance the emergency update was deployed, even though the program and virus definitions were up to date.

Your system your choice knock yourself out, I shan't waste any more time on it.
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Offline NoelC

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Re: Emergency Update 2013-11-21?
« Reply #203 on: December 28, 2013, 09:51:49 PM »
I beg your pardon?  No posting I have made is speculation that can be construed as fact.  Telling people they are going to have to reboot their systems based on no more than a guess about how things work is, on the other hand...

As schmidthouse said, back on page 4:

Quote
I spend much time reading through the Threads and gleaning interesting facts and Fiction.
Speculation, yes I think there are unresolved questions that very few know the answers too.
 I also find that unsettling. ???

We have a 14 page thread here because people really would like knowledge to how it's supposed to work, so they can know how best to use the product and know whether there could be a problem on their systems.  I don't think we're asking for information that would compromise Avast's integrity.

Would someone who actually KNOWS how the product works care to comment on whether the UI claiming the product is up to date means it's REALLY REALLY up to date, or whether there are secret additional updates that are ONLY facilitated by the emergency updater?  No answer at all to this question would be a possibility, if no one knows...

-Noel

jwoods301

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Re: Emergency Update 2013-11-21?
« Reply #204 on: December 28, 2013, 10:02:54 PM »
This description of Emergency Updater was posted in June 2012 (link provided by Lukas from Avast on the Feeedback site)...

http://www.ghacks.net/2012/06/30/avast-update-brings-emergency-updater-and-sitecorrect-features/

Offline NoelC

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Re: Emergency Update 2013-11-21?
« Reply #205 on: December 28, 2013, 10:56:00 PM »
Yes, and the program described in that article can be found scheduled via the Task Scheduler just as stated.  Notably on my system it is C:\Program Files\AVAST Software\Avast\AvastEmUpdate.exe, which is not at all the same executable that's set to run via the RunOnce key.

Consider this comparison:



The disparity in version numbering alone is unsettling.

-Noel

jwoods301

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Re: Emergency Update 2013-11-21?
« Reply #206 on: December 28, 2013, 11:30:56 PM »
Beyond Compare...one of my favorite tools.

One thing that's interesting is that the .exe in the setup/emupdate folder on my system is being updated, the newest date was today. The registry key is also being updated.

So I'm wondering if AvastEmUpdate.exe is just a shell that calls the emupdate folder .exe...

Offline olddog

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Re: Emergency Update 2013-11-21?
« Reply #207 on: December 29, 2013, 12:09:25 AM »
I am ever so glad I don't work for avast support.

There have been a number of "emergency updates" released. I have no idea how many. We know that each one has modified individual files, and that those files then show a change in their individual version number, but no change is made to the overall Avast version number.

It is not clear (at least to me), whether individual emergency updates contain all of the changes from the previous ones, or just apply a particular change.  If the latter is the case, then it would appear to be almost impossible to tell exactly what hybrid anyone is running at any specific time.

When someone takes the oft given advice to clean it all out and start again with a fresh install, are the patches or other changes made by one or more of these emergency updates already included in the product installation ion file that is current on the download site.

If avast are going to continue with a process that changes installations without providing any indication as to what level the installation is patched, then at the very least there should be a current web page which shows all individual files that have been changed with the proper file version references.
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Offline NoelC

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Re: Emergency Update 2013-11-21?
« Reply #208 on: December 29, 2013, 01:12:04 AM »
Quote
We know that each one has modified individual files, and that those files then show a change in their individual version number, but no change is made to the overall Avast version number.
Do you know whether the "up to date" status of Avast! overall is affected by the emergency updates?   In other words, per my post #202 above, could it be stating "Updated" and "Already up to date" when it really isn't?

I'm going to make a copy of my current Avast installation then reboot to run the staged GUID-named file, and see for myself.

I sincerely hope nothing ends up changed.

-Noel
« Last Edit: December 29, 2013, 01:37:11 AM by NoelC »

Offline NoelC

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Re: Emergency Update 2013-11-21?
« Reply #209 on: December 29, 2013, 01:35:57 AM »
After the reboot the GUID-named RunOnce entry is missing, as you'd expect.  Thankfully, no changes are seen in the actual executables that make up the product.

There are a few differences in the files listed in the folder tree under AVAST Software, implying the GUID-named file DID run.  A Stats.ini file is different, a whole bunch of files in a subfolder named 13122401 (a superset of the name of the RunOnce entry) have disappeared, and a new and relatively small .bin file has appeared.

This seems like good news.  Though it's just one data point, it implies that regardless of whether the scheduled emergency update runs, the product is keeping itself up to date on a healthy system without regular reboots.

-Noel