Timeout errors in outlook express

[twhogan]

I know this has been covered in some previous posts, but I think it is a bigger problem than you realise. I have a number of clients who are having this problem (over 20), with a variety of hardware types, broadband and dial-up.

Increasing the OE timeout improves it only slightly. Big attachments always cause this error and often smaller ones do it as well. Sometimes the timeout messages come up after only 30 seconds regardless of the timeout specified in OE.

Clients that are using Outlook with Exchange have no problems at all, but outlook express users are constantly complaining of this problem.

Turning Avast off fixes the problem. It doesn't happen with Norton.

It's a great product but this problem is a show stopper for me.

Thanks.

[Lisandro]

Increasing the OE timeout improves it only slightly.

Did you increase the avast! provider timeout as well or not?

Turning Avast off fixes the problem. It doesn't happen with Norton.

Sure, the email attachment is not being scanned... 

[alanrf]

I assume that, having many users with this problem, you will be able to provide us with some samples of the timeout message.  It will help to know  where the messages are originating. 

[twhogan]

I've attached the error message. It's the standard outlook timeout message - 'Your smtp server has not responded in 60 seconds'. This occured 4 times when sending a 1.2mb jpg attachment through a 512kb DSL connection (no other network traffic).

I don't get any error messages with avast off (goes through in less than a minute).

I know scanning the attachment will add some time to the sending process, but it seems extreme.

Task manager says the CPU is 99% idle while it is sending. It's a p4 2.4Ghz machine.

I turned the Avast logging to 'debug' and no errors were recorded.

How do I increase the Avast provider timeout? Should I have to?

Thanks

[twhogan]

Forgot to mention;
using Avast build 4.6.691 on Wondows 2000 Pro, but happens on XP as well.

[alanrf]

I don't get any error messages with avast off (goes through in less than a minute).

Can you explain this a little more please?  When you send a message with Outlook Express the message window closes just about as soon as you hit send.  So what is the "just about a minute" you are timing?

One other question, your 512K DSL connection, is that the send speed or the advertised receive speed?

[alanrf]

BTW, I do not want to you to think I am putting down the issue you raise. 

I can see the timeouts too, I just want to understand the parameters of the issue and whether they can be overcome with adjustment or not.

[twhogan]

The message window closes, but in the bottom right corner of OE6 there is a 'sending mail' notification. If you click on this it opens to show the whole dialog box with a status bar. The bar goes to 99% immediately and then sits there for the 4 minutes until it eventually goes.

Yes, the 512kb is the download, 128kb up, but I wanted to show that it takes at least 4 times as long to send when the message is scanned (1 minute to 4 minutes).

I have been able to replicate this on EVERY PC. Different SMTP servers, ISP's, hardware and OS. It's always the same. I'm assuming the scanning of the attachment is taking a long time, though all the Avast processes are idle during sending.

Let me know if you want me to try anything else.

[alanrf]

Not trying to contradict you but in the last update I did some analysis of sending mail with Outlook Express and Thunderbird.  As part of that effort the Avast folks reworked their "send mail" code and my figures showed that Avast is now faster in sending mail than Outlook and matches the sending ability of Thunderbird. 

I know all that is so much "yeah right" while you are still facing your problem so how about we try to get some stats?

How about:

Outlook Express > Tools >  Options > Maintenance tab > Troubleshooting ... click on Mail box

That will cause OE to create a timestamped log of email activity.  From the start of sending the mail, to the acknowledgement from the SMTP server.

Being a Microsoft product the data is never that easy to find.  But you will find a file called smtp.log and will be at:

C:\Documents and Settings\your system id\Application Data\Identities\{xxxxxxxx-xxxx-xxxx-xxxx-xxxxxxxxxxx}\Microsoft\Outlook Express

How about you send a message with an attachment:

1) with Avast turned off

2) with Avast turned on

and then post the smtp.log file.

[alanrf]

While you are considering that a little explanation of what you are seeing.

Without Avast:

You click on send.  OE starts to send the mail block by block to the SMTP server ... you see the status bar moving evenly along.  Once in a while OE gets an acknowledgement from the SMTP server which make OE very happy and OE resets its timeout timer.  Eventually all the message is sent, OE gets a final SMTP acknowledgement and all is good with the world. 

With Avast:

Avast intercepts the sending of your message to the SMTP server

You click on send.  OE starts to send the message block by block to what it thinks is the SMTP server.  Instead it is sending it to Avast inside your computer.  This happens very quickly (cos its inside your system) and so the status bar moves very quickly.  Avast caches the messages and scans it (again ... this takes very little time).  Then Avast sends the message block by block to the SMTP server.  Once in a while the SMTP server sends an acknowledgement ... but alas this goes to Avast and not to OE.  So every 60 seconds (or whatever the OE timer is set to) OE complains that it has not heard from the SMTP server.  The message is still being sent and still gets delivered.  You and your users see the worrying timeout messages though.

[twhogan]

I'll do that today and post the results.

From my users perspective (and a support perspective) it would be nice if the messages could be avoided - next release???