Author Topic: 7.0.1466 updated to 9.0.2021  (Read 47243 times)

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Offline Asyn

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Re: 7.0.1466 updated to 9.0.2021
« Reply #15 on: October 03, 2014, 06:23:43 PM »
Any difference would be marginal at best, as they both use the same db...
Nope, see: http://www.avast.com/download-update
I clicked on this link and found nothing that says AVAST v7 is a poor AV...
Never said so, just pointed out the fact that they don't use the same db. ;)
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Offline drake127

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Re: 7.0.1466 updated to 9.0.2021
« Reply #16 on: October 03, 2014, 06:31:54 PM »
Guys, I understand you, respect your opinion and I share it with you. It is kinda rude to update software on your own computer and I would not like it either. There are even some compatibility risks involved no matter how hard we try to mitigate them (those are the other conditions I mentioned).

However, Avast is not one of those software that works on their own. It needs constant updates and our VPS is far from being a simple database. We have many users and even some obscure builds hit over 1 million of users. That's around three dozens builds which are not tested regularly or at all summing up to many millions of users. And there is ever increasing chance that one day one of those builds just break perhaps taking the Windows with it.

Considering that, there are always people on the scales. I am very well aware that some of you are rightfully upset, some of you don't care and most of you don't have any comments. Still, I believe that this policy is for good. You still have option to keep major version you want but helps us to test only one build for each major version. That's become a big deal for us and helps us a lot.

I agree that we should have give you some sort of advance notice but our options are limited. "Banning" is hardcoded feature without any UI and EmUpdate related to it served rather different purpose of switching whole file repository because there actually are major differences between v5-v8 and v9-v10 VPS.

As for the protection, we continuously improve (self-)protection of the Avast and underlying system making it harder for unknown malware to get in or disable Avast before its detection and this is becoming increasingly important. This cannot be done by just updating VPS and these updates are not usually backported.
« Last Edit: October 03, 2014, 06:45:08 PM by drake127 »

Offline lakrsrool

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Re: 7.0.1466 updated to 9.0.2021
« Reply #17 on: October 03, 2014, 06:37:57 PM »
Any difference would be marginal at best, as they both use the same db...
Nope, see: http://www.avast.com/download-update
I clicked on this link and found nothing that says AVAST v7 is a poor AV...
Never said so, just pointed out the fact that they don't use the same db. ;)

I'm not convinced that this web page tells us whether the actual db itself is actually different for those various stipulated version groups or not, it's still possible that the db itself is not different at all.  It very well could be that the application methods used to update the db are what is different for those designated versions that may actually by grouped because those versions require a different update process for purposes of application compatibility as opposed to whether or not any differences may exist in the db itself for each of those version groups hence the db may actually be the same in each case.  It would seem to me that we can't know either way if the db varies between versions that are grouped for db updates based on this website.
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Offline Asyn

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Re: 7.0.1466 updated to 9.0.2021
« Reply #18 on: October 03, 2014, 06:39:40 PM »
I'm not convinced that this web page tells us whether the actual db itself is actually different for those various stipulated version groups or not, it's still possible that the db itself is not different at all.
See: Reply #16. ;)
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Re: 7.0.1466 updated to 9.0.2021
« Reply #19 on: October 03, 2014, 06:45:00 PM »
Any difference would be marginal at best, as they both use the same db...
Nope, see: http://www.avast.com/download-update

I clicked on this link and found nothing that says AVAST v7 is a poor AV compared to the newest version. Maybe scripts were blocking some relevant content. But FTR any company will always claim its newest product is better and improved. That's how marketing works. Whether it's improved or not. And maybe it is, and maybe it's not.
What Asyn's link points to is the different vps updates used for 2014 as opposed to 5-8 so your statement about them all using the same database is wrong, companies claim their latest software to be better mainly on the fact that new versions are built with the latest features and technology to combat the latest attack strategies.

Offline Eddy

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Re: 7.0.1466 updated to 9.0.2021
« Reply #20 on: October 03, 2014, 06:49:56 PM »
http://www.avast.com/release-history

Bootsy, look there on what is improved.

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Re: 7.0.1466 updated to 9.0.2021
« Reply #21 on: October 03, 2014, 09:54:13 PM »
Guys, I understand you, respect your opinion and I share it with you.

And I appreciate your responses, thank you.

Quote
However, Avast is not one of those software that works on their own. It needs constant updates and our VPS is far from being a simple database. We have many users and even some obscure builds hit over 1 million of users. That's around three dozens builds which are not tested regularly or at all summing up to many millions of users. And there is ever increasing chance that one day one of those builds just break perhaps taking the Windows with it.

Good points, but supporting the last major build of prior versions - particularly popular prior versions, like v7, is even more than I expected. And while you might not continue to test each build as Windows continues updating itself, most of us are using W7 (and some maybe XP) and those OSs are not exactly getting major overhauls anymore. So chances of a disaster are imo, small.

Quote
You still have option to keep major version you want but helps us to test only one build for each major version. That's become a big deal for us and helps us a lot.

And imo is more than fair and accomodating.

Quote
[...] "Banning" is hardcoded feature without any UI and EmUpdate related to it served rather different purpose of switching whole file repository because there actually are major differences between v5-v8 and v9-v10 VPS.

As for the protection, we continuously improve (self-)protection of the Avast and underlying system making it harder for unknown malware to get in or disable Avast before its detection and this is becoming increasingly important. This cannot be done by just updating VPS and these updates are not usually backported.

Understood but again I say, how much of a difference is this truly in the context of this conversation which is about v7 vs the newest version? I would bet any difference is marginal at best and would have no real world difference on my computer. Others who believe differently are free to use the new version. But to imply (as some here have) that v7 basically isn't effective anymore is a load of bull. If someone is that concerned about marginal differences then they should be using a top-rated AV anyway (like one of the top 3), which leaves even the newest version of AVAST out in the cold.

Again, appreciated your replies, thanks.
« Last Edit: October 03, 2014, 10:22:59 PM by bootsy »

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Re: 7.0.1466 updated to 9.0.2021
« Reply #22 on: October 03, 2014, 10:16:11 PM »
http://www.avast.com/release-history

Bootsy, look there on what is improved.

I am not arguing there are no changes to the program. I am only stating I prefer v7 for many reasons, and the 'improvements' are more marketing than anything. Proof is, AVAST has not scored all that well in the  independent lab tests the last couple of years. So how improved can it be? v7 scored much better in its class at the time.

Plus many so-called 'improvements' are simply bloat to me... I don't want or need phishing or ad-blocking or Web rep cr*p or any of that. And I don't want cloud services either. I also want a choice to opt-out of info-gathering. And I dislike the W8 GUI... this is not to mention that when I tried it despite all these things, it slowed my boot time by 30 secs or so, then hogged all my resources for 2 minutes.

In short, v7 has always worked well for me... until the SP1 update and now it slows boot time to 2min. Hence, I am now considering a different AV, and might as well pick one that scored higher in the labs. I only came here to see if someone had a solution to the slow boot after the Sp1 update, but it seems it doesn't happen on all machines, so there is not likely going to be an answer unless I can find one on MyDigitalLife or the Seven forums.

Offline 937carrera

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Re: 7.0.1466 updated to 9.0.2021
« Reply #23 on: October 03, 2014, 10:37:47 PM »

I am not arguing there are no changes to the program. I am only stating I prefer v7 for many reasons, and the 'improvements' are more marketing than anything. Proof is, AVAST has not scored all that well in the  independent lab tests the last couple of years. So how improved can it be? v7 scored much better in its class at the time.

Plus many so-called 'improvements' are simply bloat to me... I don't want or need phishing or ad-blocking or Web rep cr*p or any of that. And I don't want cloud services either. I also want a choice to opt-out of info-gathering. And I dislike the W8 GUI... this is not to mention that when I tried it despite all these things, it slowed my boot time by 30 secs or so, then hogged all my resources for 2 minutes.

In short, v7 has always worked well for me... until the SP1 update and now it slows boot time to 2min. Hence, I am now considering a different AV, and might as well pick one that scored higher in the labs. I only came here to see if someone had a solution to the slow boot after the Sp1 update, but it seems it doesn't happen on all machines, so there is not likely going to be an answer unless I can find one on MyDigitalLife or the Seven forums.

I just joined the forum solely because one of my computers just updated itself and overrode my wishes.

What bootsy wrote sums up my feelings exactly. I want effective software, not bloatware, and Avast older editions always provided that.

The "EmergencyUpdate" process that has been flashing up in my Zonealarm firewall (yas, that's an old version too where I control exactly what I let in and out) has been popping up frequently over the past few weeks, each time I allowed it one time access to update whatever was deemed necessary. I made the mistake of not reading the pop up properly this afternoon and allowed the update process to run. I suspect it "upgraded" to V8 and then autoupdated to 2014 because I left the computer alone and didn't change the program update settings immediately

A system restore didn't fix the problem so I uninstalled Avast 2014, wound my clock back 3 years and reinstalled the earlier version in offline mode from my backups.

I'm happy again, and can now permanently deny AvastUpdate (not definitions) from accessing the internet through ZA.

Avast should have done a much better job of communicating with its users and informing them about what was going on. I have been concerned about the number of emergency updates recently

One final thought, top marks to drake127. He actually understands the position of his customers and is honest in expressing his views, rather than simply repeating the corporate line. That alone has stopped me from seeking out another AV product this evening.

   

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Re: 7.0.1466 updated to 9.0.2021
« Reply #24 on: October 03, 2014, 11:04:10 PM »
I want effective software, not bloatware, and Avast older editions always provided that.

Agreed. Unfortunately there is a mindset in today's competitive software market that equates new features and more features with being able to distinguish your product from every other AV... and so no one is providing a simple, lightweight AV that just finds and cleans viruses, malware, rootkits, etc and does nothing else. I prefer the old school way of doing things (which I still find solid) to have one program that does one thing well... instead of trying to do 50 things, and worse, things I don't even WANT done. So I want my AV to be an AV only... and I have a different program for my FW, and ad-blocking and all that can be done with browser add-ons, etc.

And while many people like cloud services, I do not. I want an AV to work off my own computer and the only time it should phone home is to check for an updated virus db.

I wish AVAST would consider making such a program. AVAST FREE LITE, if you will. A barebones AV that does what an AV should do and no more. And please don't emulate the W8 UI... it's a mystery why companies are emulating the look of one of the least popular OSs of all time.

Offline Pondus

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Re: 7.0.1466 updated to 9.0.2021
« Reply #25 on: October 03, 2014, 11:08:16 PM »
Quote
So I want my AV to be an AV only 
You can remove modules you dont want


Quote
  And while many people like cloud services, I do not. I want an AV to work off my own computer and the only time it should phone home is to check for an updated virus db   
That is what the cloud service does     
Stream updates    http://blog.avast.com/2013/09/16/seeking-perfection/

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Re: 7.0.1466 updated to 9.0.2021
« Reply #26 on: October 04, 2014, 12:12:31 AM »
You can remove modules you dont want

I do. Including disabling most 'features'.

Quote
  And while many people like cloud services, I do not. I want an AV to work off my own computer and the only time it should phone home is to check for an updated virus db   

Quote
That is what the cloud service does     
Stream updates    http://blog.avast.com/2013/09/16/seeking-perfection/

I didn't see any technical info about the cloud services on that link, but read about AVAST's cloud services the other day and my opinion about cloud services has not changed. Don't like them, don't want them. And it's not just used for streaming updates. From what I read AVAST generates sig files (from the client) it uploads to the cloud for scanning. Some ppl like this idea as it is supposed to save the client (PC) from using its own resources, but I prefer all the info on my computer to remain private and not be scanned for the purposes of creating sig files, copies or anything else to be uploaded anywhere. I want my computer self-contained and my AV working as well offline (with the full db and not just a cache of the most likely threats) as it does on. I prefer a hit to my personal resources to that end, as has been the traditional model. Streaming updates are also unnecessary imo. Updating once an hour or every 240 min is plenty good. (And yes, I disabled all these things in v7.)


Offline Pondus

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Re: 7.0.1466 updated to 9.0.2021
« Reply #27 on: October 04, 2014, 12:51:09 AM »
Quote
Streaming updates are also unnecessary imo. Updating once an hour or every 240 min is plenty good. (And yes, I disabled all these things in v7.)   
Evryone is doing it now and it is the only way to handle the large amount of new malware found evry day

20% of all malware ever created appeared in 2013   http://press.pandasecurity.com/news/20-of-all-malware-ever-created-appeared-in-2013/

Malware statistic   http://www.av-test.org/en/statistics/malware/


Quote
Updating once an hour or every 240 min is plenty good. 
Why not go back to the 1980 when they sendt out virus signature updates once a month on floppydisk

« Last Edit: October 04, 2014, 01:12:09 AM by Pondus »

Offline polonus

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Re: 7.0.1466 updated to 9.0.2021
« Reply #28 on: October 04, 2014, 12:58:42 AM »
Hi Pondus,

Or get the latest CD version that comes with your computer magazine.
That was how it used to be.

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Offline Dch48

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Re: 7.0.1466 updated to 9.0.2021
« Reply #29 on: October 04, 2014, 01:13:44 AM »
Just my two cents for what it's worth since I no longer use Avast. One of the main reasons why I decided not to use the versions of the free Avast newer than v7 was what I consider to be needless bloat. I mean the new features like the software updater, browser cleaner, grimefighter, and all the other things that have been added on top of what used to be a very good and light AV. I just think the company is headed in the wrong direction and possibly losing users and potential users because of it.
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