Author Topic: [Explanation] Why old avast! versions are forcibly updated  (Read 26713 times)

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Offline Patrick2

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Re: [Explanation] Why old avast! versions are forcibly updated
« Reply #30 on: October 17, 2014, 04:34:25 PM »
Hey All, For what it's worth I switched to Avast when it was version 4.0, back say around 2005-2006 I believe it was after trying Windows Live Onecare briefly and it missed a ton of virus on other family PC I was maintaining, ended up reformatting that one, and installing Avast free, (still use it today on all the machines)   Runs A+, no problems cause of Avast on any of the systems, always update manually to latest program version though as they come out, to have the best possible protection, I feel have to be on the latest Engine, and program. 

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Offline RejZoR

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Re: [Explanation] Why old avast! versions are forcibly updated
« Reply #31 on: October 17, 2014, 04:40:45 PM »
And you are thinking correctly. Only very latest engine and features provide superior protection.
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Offline Staticguy

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Re: [Explanation] Why old avast! versions are forcibly updated
« Reply #32 on: October 17, 2014, 10:34:43 PM »
Hey All, For what it's worth I switched to Avast when it was version 4.0, back say around 2005-2006 I believe it was after trying Windows Live Onecare briefly and it missed a ton of virus on other family PC I was maintaining, ended up reformatting that one, and installing Avast free, (still use it today on all the machines)   Runs A+, no problems cause of Avast on any of the systems, always update manually to latest program version though as they come out, to have the best possible protection, I feel have to be on the latest Engine, and program.

Finally someone here is thinking correctly and thank god for that!
« Last Edit: October 17, 2014, 10:59:33 PM by Staticguy »
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Offline thekochs

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Re: [Explanation] Why old avast! versions are forcibly updated
« Reply #33 on: October 18, 2014, 06:38:36 AM »
always update manually to latest program version though as they come out, to have the best possible protection, I feel have to be on the latest Engine, and program.
Sorry Patrick2.......Avast just decided for you when they think you should update.....Manual means nothing.

Amazing, all this and still the point is missed.  :-[
What the issue IS......again what the ISSUE IS......is forcing a NON-EMERGENCY REBOOT and FORCED PROGRAM INSTALL.

YES, those of us who are complaining 100% understand the challenges of maintaining software revs and backwards support (I ran a software group for ten years)....it is a nightmare.....got it......understood...loud and clear.....your point taken.
So, please stop arguing why the world should move to latest Avast.....understood, newer is better.....but this DOES NOT give Avast the right to force program installs when the settings are specifically informing Avast not to.  If Avast feels it is their "right" and/or desire to do this then why would they put an option for "Manual" update in Avast ?  Show me in the Avast EULA where I gave this permission to Avast ? http://www.avast.com/en-us/eula  If you read the language, the only comments about "updates" is that Avast at their discretion makes them "available".  There is no direct or even implied right for them to do this.....so why would they ?  I'll answer my own question......because they want to force folks to the new platform with no regard for other consequences.  Yes guys, "consequences"....I was on Forum when V9 came out last Fall and frankly a very buggy, bloatware POS.....one VERY good reason to wait.  If/When I elect to do software upgrades I prepare for them with recent HDD image backups, restore points, etc......not to wake up to see a PC has been rebooted and software updated.  Also, I would not use the "update" feature within Avast anyway....I would do a clean uninstall and install.....everyone on this thread knows that is a MUCH more solid approach.  So, I take it very personal when Avast intrudes without my permission....yes, because if I HAD PERMITTED....the flippin "Manual" would have been set to "Auto Update"....but it was not....for what I think are very valid reasons....upgrade on my timeline, my way that has best chance of success and I have fallback if something goes wrong.

Bottom line, Avast can accomplish the very same thing they want.....a forced upgrade...just stop posting VBS updates to older versions.  Users will either upgrade or move-on....this method is not a heavy handed intrusive effort to users PCs and in the end accomplishes the very same thing they want.

BTW, I am in process of moving my home PCs to Avast 9 from Avast 8......wondering if I should wait for Avast 10.....but taking plunge on several machines.  My argument above is not about the "need" it is about the intrusion.....thus, I would argue this side of it even if I was on Avast 9 already across all PCs. The "method" Avast is choosing is where I think they have crossed the line.....they are better than that.
« Last Edit: October 18, 2014, 02:58:08 PM by thekochs »
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Offline RejZoR

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Re: [Explanation] Why old avast! versions are forcibly updated
« Reply #34 on: October 18, 2014, 04:08:58 PM »
Si, just stopping to update would somehow be better than forcibly updating to latest version...
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Offline Lisandro

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Re: [Explanation] Why old avast! versions are forcibly updated
« Reply #35 on: October 18, 2014, 09:30:46 PM »
promoting users
We're talking about free users.
Old technologies uses resources, bring compatibility issues, reduce overall protection, cost a lot of money...
Technology enterprises will always have to take a decision about "old support": Google, any other mobile device manufacturer, etc.
The best things in life are free.

Offline thekochs

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Re: [Explanation] Why old avast! versions are forcibly updated
« Reply #36 on: October 18, 2014, 10:38:44 PM »
just stopping to update would somehow be better than forcibly updating to latest version...

Absolutely, just take step back and think about it.
I know you & Avast wants everyone on the latest......no argument why it "should" be better.
BUT....if you force (other than true emergency update needs) then you are pushing a by its nature very intrusive software package into a person's PC.  If that person has their option set to Auto Update then fine, but if not and set to Manual then hands-off.  These updates sometimes go very, very bad and since the nature of Avast is intrusive this could mean bad things to a PC.  So, if the user has changed (because Default is Auto) to Manual then he/she has reasons.....good or not.
If Avast truly does not want to support an older version just stop sending out VBS updates.....users will change.

The "issue" I have with this is I am a very techy guy and know first code always has bugs......so I wait.
The more complex or intrusive the software I wait even more.....until it is SUPER stable.
My point is Avast desire to "protect" people by forcing the update can actually cause more harm than good.
All good/honest/integrity software companies understand this......so does Avast, that is why they have the update option.
Thus, they need to stick to that integrity.  If some "Manager" says within Avast "we need to move all these old users to V9" then fine.....stop the VBS.....do not mess with peoples PCs.

Think of it this way........what if I said "hey RejZoR you may be smart guy but I think I'm smarter....I'm going to reboot your machine and install things I think are better for you".......you'd flip out, right ? Your a techy, question.....with MS Updates....set on Auto on your machine or Auto Download and you choose to install ?......I'm guessing the latter.

So, a lot of words for a simple "YES" to your question........it is better to stop VBS updates if Avast does not want to support older version.  This way, anyone who complains then you argument of newer is better is 100% valid and they have no ground to stand on.

I just think Avast should think "how" they do things.
   
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Offline RejZoR

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Re: [Explanation] Why old avast! versions are forcibly updated
« Reply #37 on: October 18, 2014, 10:42:08 PM »
You're saying like it installs the update silently and then just forcibly reboots the system in the middle of whatever you were doing. To my knowledge, that is not what happens. They just disregard the update control taht user has and udpates it like it's set to Automatic. It will still asky ou to reboot because of the update. So, how exactly is that probelmatic?
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Offline thekochs

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Re: [Explanation] Why old avast! versions are forcibly updated
« Reply #38 on: October 18, 2014, 11:09:07 PM »
You're saying like it installs the update silently and then just forcibly reboots the system in the middle of whatever you were doing. To my knowledge, that is not what happens. They just disregard the update control taht user has and udpates it like it's set to Automatic. It will still asky ou to reboot because of the update. So, how exactly is that probelmatic?

That is exactly what I am saying.....if you read many of the other threads like me people woke up to a FORCED install.
It appears the Avast Emergency updater did a FORCE install.........there was no message, nothing. I woke one morning with 2 out of my 5 home PCs that all had V8 (V8.0.1497...which is last valid/stable V8) to a Windows login screen......once I put in Windows PW then Avast "completed" the V9 install.....I literally freaked out.  All these 5 PCs with V8 were set to manual install.  Checking the W7 Scheduler the Avast EMU had run during the night....obviously it forced a install.
« Last Edit: October 19, 2014, 12:19:00 AM by thekochs »
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Offline Tia

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Re: [Explanation] Why old avast! versions are forcibly updated
« Reply #39 on: October 19, 2014, 04:30:21 AM »
You're saying like it installs the update silently and then just forcibly reboots the system in the middle of whatever you were doing. To my knowledge, that is not what happens. They just disregard the update control taht user has and udpates it like it's set to Automatic. It will still asky ou to reboot because of the update. So, how exactly is that probelmatic?

Problematic is that the AV is not yet installed properly until after reboot. Leaving the system unprotected until then. Since those updates can happen at any time avast sees fit I certainly wouldn't be happy having my computer sitting there for several hour w/o protection. That whole force update is just bad etiquette and reeks of arrogance.

Offline cooby

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Re: [Explanation] Why old avast! versions are forcibly updated
« Reply #40 on: October 19, 2014, 05:10:00 AM »
For years my procedure is to follow the same procedure our techs use at work.
1. Prepare for update by reading, testing in a sandbox, etc. At home - mostly reading here.
2. Vital step which must be done is to make an image of the system partition.
3. Update and reboot.
I use this procedure for all Windows updates and antivirus major versions since these are the most critical to the system's well being.

Even the most hated and arrogant company, M$, allows us to update on our schedule and not on patch tuesday, so that we can read and prepare. Oh, yes, they did few behind your back (remember genuine advantage disguised as a security update? Some people called it malware). But for the most part they don't interfere.

When an update comes out of the blue, it's against my procedures, which I have no intention of breaking. I don't want to get away from Avast since it's great and fits my machine nicely. There's nothing better out there. But at this point I might just stay with 9 or disable it altogether if v10 will be forced.

All we need is an announcement that we must update so that we can prepare. A day or two or three would be sufficient.
An often repeated theory on this forum that everybody is stupid/ignorant/illiterate/careless simply doesn't hold.
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Re: [Explanation] Why old avast! versions are forcibly updated
« Reply #41 on: October 19, 2014, 07:22:01 AM »
Microsoft is the most hated and arrogant company, yet you still use their product? Idiotic much?
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Offline drake127

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Re: [Explanation] Why old avast! versions are forcibly updated
« Reply #42 on: October 19, 2014, 10:36:13 AM »
Problematic is that the AV is not yet installed properly until after reboot. Leaving the system unprotected until then. Since those updates can happen at any time avast sees fit I certainly wouldn't be happy having my computer sitting there for several hour w/o protection.
This is true only for firewall component (there are technical reasons that don't allow graceful update). All other drivers and services continue to operating normally until the restart.

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Re: [Explanation] Why old avast! versions are forcibly updated
« Reply #43 on: October 19, 2014, 01:49:57 PM »
Problematic is that the AV is not yet installed properly until after reboot. Leaving the system unprotected until then. Since those updates can happen at any time avast sees fit I certainly wouldn't be happy having my computer sitting there for several hour w/o protection.
This is true only for firewall component (there are technical reasons that don't allow graceful update). All other drivers and services continue to operating normally until the restart.
@Drake,
Does that then mean that if you're using Avast Free, a reboot isn't required ? (After the update, there is always a request to reboot the system.)
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Offline thekochs

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Re: [Explanation] Why old avast! versions are forcibly updated
« Reply #44 on: October 19, 2014, 03:26:34 PM »
Problematic is that the AV is not yet installed properly until after reboot. Leaving the system unprotected until then. Since those updates can happen at any time avast sees fit I certainly wouldn't be happy having my computer sitting there for several hour w/o protection.
This is true only for firewall component (there are technical reasons that don't allow graceful update). All other drivers and services continue to operating normally until the restart.

I think several threads each pages long of comments warrants an official policy response from Avast Team.
So @Drake.....is Avast going to continue to ignore the Manual Setting and use EMU update to FORCE install non-emergency updates ?
As stated many times.....I get why you want to stop supporting older versions.....just stop the VBS updates but don't silent-force install/reboot a users PC.  For me, if this is the official policy going forward I will need to move to another A/V....while I'm a fan of Avast as product & company I cannot take the risk of the affect of such a process on my PCs.  In case you were not around AVG did this from version 8 to version 9 and bricked thousands of PCs....lost countless users...it was very ugly times.  Taking control, installing and rebooting a PC is not a trivial intrusion....it is has proven out to potentially have serious implications.  I sure hope Avast considers a less heavy-handed way to accomplish the migration.....I have given you an easy one.  I do thank you for consideration of this matter.



« Last Edit: October 19, 2014, 03:40:45 PM by thekochs »
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