Author Topic: Messed Up  (Read 69214 times)

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bbfi

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Re:Messed Up
« Reply #60 on: November 22, 2003, 02:30:55 AM »
Cojo,

Never heard of EasyGuard firewall.  Where did you find that one from?   ???

Can't help you with disabling system restore when scanning.  I totally disabled it and use a product called Restore It.  Microsoft's System Restore was very unreliable on my system.  It would not make daily restore points and if I made a restore point myself, it would sometimes disappear after a day or two.  Many forums I went to discussed this problem and that's why other software developers have alternate restore programs for Win XP.   :o

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Re:Messed Up
« Reply #61 on: November 22, 2003, 04:30:28 AM »
go to start menu right cligh my computer slect properties then go to the system restore tab and check the turn off system restore box (in XP) :D if you havent done so. I turned my laptop one off too mac has their own restore function wich is way better  ;D :D
« Last Edit: November 22, 2003, 04:32:14 AM by MacLover2000 »
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Re:Messed Up
« Reply #62 on: November 22, 2003, 05:05:54 AM »
how much is the new firewall you have cojo?
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Hornus Continuum

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Re:Messed Up
« Reply #63 on: November 22, 2003, 02:09:12 PM »
CoJo,

I recommend against routinely disabling System Restore to perform scans; do so only if necessary to remove some malware.  I might even leave infected files in SR.  First, 99% of the time they can't do any harm unless you roll your system back to a state wherein they're reinstalled.  At that point, you'd be no worse off than at the point where you discovered them in the first place.  Second, over time, as older restore points are replaced by newer ones, the files will eventually be removed from your system anyway.  Third, it's possible that avast! will intercept their reinstallation during a restore and prevent it, if properly configured.  Perhaps someone from the A-team can comment on that.

The reason for not disabling SR: This removes all the restore points potentially leaving you up the proverbial creek without a paddle.  I can't verify this point directly since I've never disabled it; but, Microsoft documents this feature as working this way.  I've seen plenty of posts in other forums indicating that this is so, some including posts from MVPs at the Microsoft forums.  Since I use Windows XP, I don't know whether this is true under other versions of Windlows like Windows 2000 or Windows ME.  I've seen posts recommending disabling SR that either vaguely imply restore points aren't lost or fail to mention this consequence, but I can't say whether that is because it's true or because the author had no knowledge of it or didn't consider it a big deal.

Should malware strike that wreaks total havoc on your system, you can save yourself a big headache by having some means of restoring your computer to a previous state.  Leave SR running unless you have and regularly use another application, like Drive Image, that allows you to make and save an exact image of your hard drive, or like GoBack mentioned earlier that creates restore points automagically.  Otherwise, you could be looking at hours (days?) of work to reinstall your OS and applications from their installation and/or recovery disks and to retrieve your data (documents, music and video files, e-mail, etc.) from a backup.  You'd also have to retrieve any downloaded applications from the Internet or P2P networks and reinstall them, unless you backed up their installation files.  After that, you're still looking at what could be more hours of reconfiguring Windows and your applications, especially if some of them were difficult to set up the first time.  It's posssible that you might never get your system back the way it was.

Regards,
Hornus
« Last Edit: November 22, 2003, 02:13:07 PM by Hornus Continuum »

CoJo

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Re:Messed Up
« Reply #64 on: November 22, 2003, 02:11:26 PM »
thanks for the info, Mac :)
 EZ Guard is free for use for one year...it comes with a AV as well, but you can set it up with only the firewall...which is what I did. But now I can do the "back up" scan once in awhile.
I would have to search for who on the forum recommended it

System restore never seemed to work right for me!

CoJo

CoJo

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Re:Messed Up
« Reply #65 on: November 22, 2003, 02:40:20 PM »
Hornus, thank you so much!

I better understand now :)
which one is the easiest to use--GoBack or DriveImage? most times I have gotten into trouble has been from using something "too smart"--advanced--for me :-[

Peace!
CoJo

Offline Lisandro

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Re:Messed Up
« Reply #66 on: November 22, 2003, 06:34:47 PM »
If you want to get your feet wet using Registry tools, try RegCleaner.  It is very simple and has some nice added features.
You can find it here:  www.jv16.org
jv16.org has gone commercial and charge now for their software.  They also discontinued their forum after the software developer linked up with a company who decided not to allow the public any access to previous free versions.  After the beta testing (each release lasted only a month or two), the company decided to charge $29.95 without ever mentioning that they would discontinue the freeware version.  They even changed the links of every website that had the free version to the new shareware version within a matter of days.  See http://www.outpostfirewall.com/forum/showthread.php?s=35566a572d10f2ff31358d54b342b27a&threadid=7918&highlight=jv16 for what others say about this.  >:(
So I guess what I am saying is that this Avast community is one of the BEST around.  ;D  ;D  ;D
Quote

Is it legal to 'release' the old free version of jv16PowerTools?
I have it and in the past I send it by email to some avast! users.
Does anybody have a homepage for uploading it (if it's legal of course).

The last freeware version was 1.3.0.19 (today it is on 1.4 RC2).
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Offline Lisandro

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Re:Messed Up
« Reply #67 on: November 22, 2003, 06:40:17 PM »
BTW - The people at this forum are really helpful and do their best at helping all.  Vlk just released an updated Avast driver for a possible fix for the system resource problem some were having with Avast (I was one of them who started the post at http://www.avast.com/forum/index.php?board=1;action=display;threadid=1477;start=0).  My computer would start crashing after 4 to 8 hours with this problem that no one could solve at first.  Well, with the replies from people like Technical, Dave50, Taikonaut and others and the hard work of Vlk, it appears that the problem has been solved.  I am now going on 16 hours with no signs of crashing or slowing down.  Hallelujah!  It's great to be able to use Avast again.   ;D

Like bbfi, I do recommend the download of the system driver of avast! (C:\WINDOWS\system32\drivers\aswmon2.sys). You have to disable avast!, copy the file, reenable the residents again. Untill next program release (avast! team promise before Christmas), each VPS update will 'turn' the file back and the user must copy it again (so, save the new file in another folder for it).  ;)
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Offline Lisandro

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Re:Messed Up
« Reply #68 on: November 22, 2003, 06:43:04 PM »
BB,
Although XP FW is very basic, as a rule from experience, do not have 2 FWs running at the same time.

Techie, I cannot imagine your age  ;D But I used Innoculate too...
I haven't experienced any trouble using XP internal firewall and ZoneAlarm for years...  :-\ They work fine togheter for me  8)
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Offline Lisandro

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Re:Messed Up
« Reply #69 on: November 22, 2003, 07:00:19 PM »
Which one is the easiest to use--GoBack or DriveImage? most times I have gotten into trouble has been from using something "too smart"--advanced--for me :-[

GoBack 3 Personal Edition provides basic hard drive recovery functionality. GoBack 3 Deluxe provides additional features such as file recovery.
It is a system recovery tool (http://www.roxio.com). It's automatic and run in the background. I do recommend (it save my life a lot of times).

With DriveImage you can create or restore an image file, a complete (or partial) backup of the whole system (programs installed, and so on). It manages the whole HDD or its partitions as well (http://www.powerquest.com). It does not run in background, it is a backup utility.  ;) (I recommend it too but there are some freeware tools that does the same)  ;)
« Last Edit: November 22, 2003, 08:09:43 PM by Technical »
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Hornus Continuum

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Re:Messed Up
« Reply #70 on: November 22, 2003, 07:35:21 PM »
CoJo,

I can't make a specific recomendation, but I'll tell you what I know (or think I know   :D  ) about GoBack and give you some guidelines you can use to make a decision.  But, I urge you to do some research on the Internet.  Look for other rollback utilities.  Read some reviews.  Visit some some forums and form your own opinions.

About Goback.  It runs in the background monitoring disk activity and recording all changes.  It's no substitue for a backup utility; mainly it's used to recover from installation of bad drivers, applicatons, software updates, and infections from malware, just like System Restore.  When you boot your computer, GB displays a splash screen before Windows loads, giving you the option to disable the program or initiate a recovery.  Once Windows has booted, you can access it from the Start Menu or from an icon in the System Tray to configure it.

The good news: GoBack 3.0 Personal Edition comes with Norton SystemWorks 2002, and I installed it on my parents' Windows 98SE-based computer about 3 years ago.  It's never caused caused a problem, and I used it once to restore their computer.  I've read numerous posts in various forums that it's a great product, superior to System Restore, and has pulled many butts outta the fire.  It's easy to install and set up.  Unlike SR, which doesn't monitor data files, GB monitors all changes to a hard drive, which means when it restores a hard drive it also restores the data as well.  For example, if something corrupts your My Documents directory causing you to lose all your data, GoBack will restore it.  I didn't notice any performance impact on their machine, 600 Mhz Celeron with 256 MB of memory (originally 64 MB when GB was installed) and a 20 MB hard drive.

Now the bad news: I also run NSW 2002 on my computer, and the option to install GoBack was disabled when I installed the suite.  Apparently it's incompatible with Windows XP.  Possibly it's just that the installer recognized that System Restore was running, but I believe I checked the manual at the time (about a year ago) and discovered that it's the former.  Newer versions of it may be comatible with XP though.  The personal edition only supports one restore point, but I suspect the full version doesn't have this limitation.  (I certainly wouldn't pay for the upgrade if it did.)

The flip side of GoBack's ability to restore data is that you also can lose data, and recently installed applications, drivers, and software updates as well.  Conceptually, GB makes a snapshot of your drive to use as a baseline and records all subsequent changes to it.  When it restores the hard drive, it looks at the drive's current state along with the baseline information and the recorded changes to determine how to do the rollback.  As a result, during a recovery new files and the changes to the existing ones are lost.  Also, any deleted files will reappear (which can be a good thing if you deleted them accidentally   ;) ).  Another implication of this is that if you use GB, you should remember to periodically disable and reenable it to minimize the loss should you need to use it to roll back your computer.  Like System Restore, if you disable it, you lose the ability to roll back your computer past the point where you reenable it.

Because it monitors and records all changes, you should disable GB before defragmenting the hard drive, for two reasons.  One, its continuous recording in its binary file of changes to the drive can interfere with defraggers.  The defragger notices the changes to GB's binary file causing it to restart; System Restore doesn't cause this problem because it doesn't record all disk updates.  (Norton Speed Disk does seem to be "GoBack-aware," but I noticed that the number of restarts was drastically reduced by disabling GB before defragging the hard drive on my parents' computer.)  Second, all the changes made to the hard drive during defragging fills GB's binary store.  It's speculation on my part, but presumably this means that when the store is full, older changes are incorporated into the baseline to make room to save the new ones, which limits how far you can go back.

Unlike System Restore, you'll find plenty of posts in forums from people complaining that GoBack crashed or trashed their computer.  But as I said, there are a lot of people singing its praises, loudly.  The last time I actively monitored this, I remember estimating that sentiments ranged from 60/40 in favor of GB to 40/60 against it, depending upon the forum and time frame.  This leads me to conclude that overall it was about six to one and half a dozen to the other.

Based on the above, I don't see a compelling reason to disable System Restore and switch to GoBack.

See my next post for information about drive imaging tools.

Regards,
Hornus
« Last Edit: November 22, 2003, 07:37:39 PM by Hornus Continuum »

Offline Lisandro

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Re:Messed Up
« Reply #71 on: November 22, 2003, 08:01:04 PM »
Now the bad news: I also run NSW 2002 on my computer, and the option to install GoBack was disabled when I installed the suite.  Apparently it's incompatible with Windows XP.  Possibly it's just that the installer recognized that System Restore was running, but I believe I checked the manual at the time (about a year ago) and discovered that it's the former.  Newer versions of it may be comatible with XP though.  The personal edition only supports one restore point, but I suspect the full version doesn't have this limitation.  (I certainly wouldn't pay for the upgrade if it did.)

The version shipped with Norton SystemWorks 2003 is compatible with XP (although, I have disabled the internal System Recovery of XP, which is a poor monitor compared to GoBack).

The flip side of GoBack's ability to restore data is that you also can lose data, and recently installed applications, drivers, and software updates as well.  Conceptually, GB makes a snapshot of your drive to use as a baseline and records all subsequent changes to it.  When it restores the hard drive, it looks at the drive's current state along with the baseline information and the recorded changes to determine how to do the rollback.  As a result, during a recovery new files and the changes to the existing ones are lost.  Also, any deleted files will reappear (which can be a good thing if you deleted them accidentally   ;) ).  Another implication of this is that if you use GB, you should remember to periodically disable and reenable it to minimize the loss should you need to use it to roll back your computer.  Like System Restore, if you disable it, you lose the ability to roll back your computer past the point where you reenable it.

Yes, the user will lost any change after the restoration point. If the user can set a large 'backup' file (gobackio.bin), it will not be necessary to disable and reenable it from time to time.

Because it monitors and records all changes, you should disable GB before defragmenting the hard drive, for two reasons.  One, its continuous recording in its binary file of changes to the drive can interfere with defraggers.  The defragger notices the changes to GB's binary file causing it to restart; System Restore doesn't cause this problem because it doesn't record all disk updates.  (Norton Speed Disk does seem to be "GoBack-aware," but I noticed that the number of restarts was drastically reduced by disabling GB before defragging the hard drive on my parents' computer.)  Second, all the changes made to the hard drive during defragging fills GB's binary store.  It's speculation on my part, but presumably this means that when the store is full, older changes are incorporated into the baseline to make room to save the new ones, which limits how far you can go back.

Disabling GoBack during defragmentation will speed up the process, but defragmentantion could be run with GoBack enabled (Norton Speed Disk or O&O utility). Anyway, Goback history (ability to roll back) will be lost. In other words, it´s better to disable Goback as Hornus said.
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Hornus Continuum

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Re:Messed Up
« Reply #72 on: November 23, 2003, 03:19:21 AM »
CoJo,

I can only speak about drive imaging tools in generalities.  Two of the most well known and well respected are Norton Ghost and Drive Image.  There are other good tools available that will get the job done, but these two usually come out on top in comparisons.  Mostly the differences between tools are things like feature set, supported hardware and media, ease of use, speed, and size of image file.  Reliabilty is another issue; sometimes a product has an excellent feature set and performance but contains serious bugs or exhibits quirky behavior.

Like the combatants in the perpetual battles for supremacy between AMD and Intel or between nVidia and ATi, each has a fervent following that roots for the other to get the snot kicked out of it in the reviews.  Both have gotten good to excellent reviews over the years, with one or the other coming out on top.  And like the other opponents, these two tend to leap frog each other.  The October 2003 issue of Maximum PC, a magazine I respect and trust, selected Norton Ghost 2003 for its Ultimate PC Toolkit.  (They also tested Drive Image 7.0 and Acronis True Image 6.0.)  These guys don't do candy-ass reviews.  If a product sucks (wind), they say so in very blunt terms.  I recently saw a scathing review for a product advertised on the adjacent page.

Drive imaging tools are not substitutes for backup software.  It's basically all or nothing.  While you can image a drive as a whole or pick a partion on a drive, you can't select which files or directories to save.  A drive imaging tool's purpose is to a create an image of a hard drive partition that can be stored and used later for disaster recovery, hardware upgrades, or system cloning.  Using a drive imager for disaster recovery or to aid in migrating the contents from an existing drive to a new (read that bigger, faster, better) one are probably the most common uses among typical home users.  Power users (read that Technical) can use it to install and test software under different OS's or combinations of software for compatibility with complete confidence that they can return quickly and easily to a preferred system configuration.

These tools create a compressed image that can be stored on some other media and then decompressed to populate a hard drive.  For a typical home user this means a second hard drive (or a second partition on the same hard drive) and optical media like DVD's and CD's.  Other output options include network drives, tape drives, external hard drives, and removable drives (like those made by Iomega).

Here are some key points to keep in mind when selecting a drive imaging tool.  Good product reviews will usually include most of this information, but some of it you'll have to obtain from other users.

Does it support the platform on which you want to use it?  Does it work under the operating system(s) that you're currently using or may be using in the future.  This isn't a big issue right now, but it was when Windows XP first came out.  64-bit PC's are available now, and the 64-bit Windows is expected in the first quarter of next year.  Does the application support the formats of the hard drives you want to image, FAT, FAT32, and NTFS?  The upcoming Longhorn release of Windows XP will support a new disk format.  Does the application support the devices and media that you want to use for archiving.  I don't know if it's still true, but previously it wasn't enough to just check whether the media was supported but also specific optical drives.  Although, for example, many products claimed support for CD-R and/or CD-RW media when they became available, they just wouldn't work with some brands and/or models of drives.  Users of tape backup systems went through similar headaches as new higher capacity tape drives and cartridges emerged.  Does the product's developer have a reputation for quickly delivering reliable updates to support new OS's, backup devices, and media?

If you're archiving to optical, tape, or removable disk drives, the efficiency of the compressor/decompressor becomes very important.  One measure is the size of the image file that is produced.  You don't want to do more swapping or purchase, store, and manage more media than necessary.  Speed is another important measure, how quickly the application can compress and decompress the image file during archive and restore operations respectively.  It's bad enough to have to babysit the process to swap out full media, but it's excruciating to sit while the application slowly grinds away at its task.  If it takes too long or involves too much disc swapping, you'll be unlikely to create the images as often as you should.

The biggest influence on speed concerns the type of drive and media you use.  There's a wide variety of options as noted above.  I'll make a simplifying assumption that you have a stand-alone computer (can't use a network drive); therefore, your options are limited to using a hard drive or an optical drive.  If you can archive to a hard drive, this will be much faster (HD transfer rates are much greater than OD rates) and easier (no disc swapping).  Using an HD, you have few basic ways to go.  In the first scenario, you have a single hard drive with a single partition on it with little free space left.  Your options are limited to archiving the image file on an optical drive.  The second case is that you have a single hard drive with 2 partitions on it, C: drive and D: drive, each with sufficient free space.  The third is similar to the first except that you have sufficient free space.  You get the additional option to use a partition manager to create another partition using some of that free space, giving you a C: drive and a D: drive, each with sufficient remaining free space.  In the final scenario, you have 2 physical hard drives, C: and D:, each with sufficient free space.  In the latter 3 cases, you could opt to make a drive image of C: and place it on D: and to make an image of D: and place it on C:.  The advantages of using 2 physical drives are that it is faster and that if you use a single hard drive and it craps out, your image files go with it.

If your storage options are limited to optical media, you may have a choice of using either CD or DVD media.  Decide based based on your priorites, cost or speed.  As for cost, CD media is cheaper than DVD media, all other things being equal.  As for speed, this isn't as easy a decision to make.  Some DVD burners are faster than some CD burners, and vice-versa.  There are other factors that affect how fast a drive can burn a CD or DVD (it's not uncommon for a drive with a lower speed rating to  outperform one with a higher rating), but in the absense of any other information, you can use the drive's speed rating as a general indicator.  A CD burner that writes at 1X transfers data at 150 KB/sec; a DVD burner that writes at 1X transfers data at 1.38 MB/sec, or approximately 9 times faster.

How much of the operation can you perform in Windows itself, and what's your tolerance for less than optimal ease of use?  None of the drive imaging applicatons can work totally within the Windows environment.  The OS doesn't provide the low-level disk access required, and the application couldn't handle the simultaneous use of the hard drive even if it did.  Just a few years ago, users had to shut down Windows and boot into DOS from a floppy disk and run a utility from the command line using switches and parameters to configure and run a job.  Most modern drive imagers are nearly seemless.  Users run the app under Windows where they configure a job, but they still have to boot from a floppy containing a DOS program with a Windows shell to complete it.  The best are as seemless as it gets; they restart the computer for you from within the application, which then boots into a companion program on the hard drive that runs the job, automatically rebooting into Windows afterward.  This works the same as chkdsk or Norton Disk Doctor when you configure them to automatically fix any errors.

Does the tool contain rudimentary partitioning capabilities.  For example, you're replacing an old 40 GB hard drive that crapped out with a brand-spankin' new 200 GB monster.  If you have more than a handful of brain cells (and I know for a fact that all avast! users do), you can easily see that 160 GB of hard drive space will be left over.  Will the utility allow you to deal with this itself, or do you have to take extra steps and run other applications to handle it.  Can it let you expand the imaged partition to fill the entire drive, configure multiple partitiions, resize them at will, and so on?  Can it handle mult-boot disks?  Again, high pain-the-ass factor equals low usage rate.

Are there any unique capabilities that make it a cut above the competition?  As stated above, these tools are not backup software.  But some permit you to select specific files or directories to recover.  This feature can be very handy at times.

Regards,
Hornus

Offline Lisandro

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Re:Messed Up
« Reply #73 on: November 23, 2003, 03:26:13 AM »
Hornus, you and techie love long posts  ;D
Anyway, you give a k@rma. I have to copy & paste your posts for reading in my leasure time  8)
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Hornus Continuum

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Re:Messed Up
« Reply #74 on: November 23, 2003, 03:41:30 AM »
Technical,

Quote
I have to copy & paste your posts for reading in my leasure time  


Sometimes I have to create them in Notepad just so I can see enough at one time to keep my train of thought coherent.

My God, my friends' accusations are true after all: I'm a windbag!  Oh well ... I'll have plenty of time with nothing to say when I'm dead.   ;D

Regards,
Hornus