IE7 Beta [download]

[szc]

...
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 and I doubt everyone is as caring about their webdesign clients as I am...
...

Well you're not the only one, that's for sure... To be true, I don't know anyone out there who takes care of their clients like I do... there is simply no browser out there that doesn't show my work properly, either it's Mozilla based or IE based engine, even all Linux and Mac browsers...

Of course people will start to attack IE7 now just like they did with any other previous release... all those things comes from Firefox clan primarily... propaganda nothing else. Of course it is full of bugs, it is in beta stage. It is in public beta stage, so people can test everything and report all those things so they can work on them... it's normal process of developing of such a colossal application.

Oh btw, WELCOME TO FORUMS BJ !

[bj]

all those things comes from Firefox clan primarily... propaganda nothing else.

Um, no, most of those things come from xhtml/css developers who know that IE6 was never finished and always hopelessly broken . . . and MSIE7 engineers are already waffling on some of the promises that they made to bring IE into compliance with the W3 spec. For instance, it doesn't look like the min/max width/height lack of implementation will be fixed in time for IE7 final release. Of course, if you're still using tables for layout and font tags in your markup like we used to do a few years back you wouldn't have noticed.

And thanks for your welcome, nice that everyone is so friendly!

[szc]

No I never used tables... I build my sites completely in Flash. That's why all of them work in all browsers regardless of W3 specs issues etc. Pure Flash/PHP/ASP.net integration... btw nothing plays nice with Flash as IE based browsers do. I'm not saying Mozilla engine based browsers don't work with this, because they do... the question is how... they tend to slow down everything just because their rendering engine is not that andvanced I guess. We are in multimedia era, so this is very important. I build alive sites, sites full of digital effects, just like many of my FlashKit pals do... we need a browser that "reads" everything properly. So far, IE never had any single problem with interpreting Flash content. Also, so much hated ActiveX doesn't work on Mozilla based browsers... well some are happy, others hate that, especially those in SEO businesses... The only real problem we see with IE in our community is that IE doesn't show PNG's alpha channel properly.. better say wasn't showing, because that's finally fixed in IE7 now... so we are covered.

[bj]

well, almost all can read flash . . . except the search engines . . .

[bob3160]

well, almost all can read flash . . . except the search engines . . .

Well, that's the truth... but also, the truth is that not all can make Flash that is 100% compatible with every single browser. Many Flash sites don't work properly on Mozilla engine based browsers, just because their creators didn't pay attention to all factors when they compiled them... If they did, the result would be: Flash sites that work perfectly in all environments, regardless of the type of browser engine...

[bj]

Xhtml/css sites work in alternative devices such as palm pilots, cellphones, and handicapped access devices. I have a feeling Flash hasn't addressed those issues at all. And considering bandwidth issues on wireless devices it's laughable to think any of the flash sites I've seen would ever load on a cellphone. Language support? I dunno about Flash. I know my xhtml/css sites are translatable.

Accessibility of the information on the web to all is one of the biggest reasons behind web standards. It's been Microsoft's biggest failing. Though it seems the IE engineers who are working on IE7 are truly trying to improve IE, they're hampered by two things- they're building on a poor foundation (can we say sandbox? broken box model?) and they're going against the dictates of a corporate culture that has always tried to dominate the market by use of proprietary standards. I applaud the openness of those engineers who, by blogging what's going on are at least letting us developers know what's coming down the pike, and letting us read between the lines on what might not and giving us a hint of why not. Of course it's still going to complicate things for us Devs.

Interesting times ahead . . .

[szc]

I am not really interested is my site going to be translatable or not, really... my clients want's my sites in their native language. As long as I can provide them with what they want I am here. Of course, as long as they pay I am here...

Xhtml/css sites work on palm pilots etc, but there is no way to do something like this:

::: LINK 1 :::
::: LINK 2 :::
::: LINK 3 :::
::: LINK 4 :::
::: LINK 5 :::
...
...
...

Also, Flash works perfectly on cell phones.

On the other hand, there is really nothing it can be done in some other programming language, that can't be done using AS (ActionScript) and integration between Flash and numberless other components...

Besides, this is not the right forum for this type of discussion... (just IMHO) this falls into Web Design related section, which doesn't really exist in this and many other computer security related forums out there (too bad but what can we do...  ).

[bj]

Did you ever stop to think that not everybody has flash or even wants it?

[szc]

And it looks like you came here just to argue...

Flash player has autochecker feature... just try to uninstall it on your system and click on LINK 3 again... See ?

And those who doesn't want it, can freely browse other sites as far as I am concerned. Flash is taking huge part in Web design, want it or not, and it puts everything else in the background... that's the fact.

[bob3160]

Did you ever stop to think that not everybody has flash or even wants it?

I haven't seen any of your work but have certainly seen much of what SZC has done.
I'd sure love to compare your work to his and am sure there are many other in here who would also
enjoy a comparison.

[Staind]

And it looks like you came here just to argue...

I don't think that's her point, what she said does make sense.  I myself dislike Flash sites, not that they aren't nice or anything but I find the loading system annoying as well as the untraditional site navigation uncomfortable.  Of course, other people have different opinions and different preferences, which is what I think is what she was trying to say - not insult you.

[szc]

She clearly stated this:

Did you ever stop to think that not everybody has flash or even wants it?

Do you maybe see somewhere in one of my previous post where I wrote something like that ? Something like: "Did you ever stop to think that not everybody like plain, lifeless HTML sites ?"

No... and you will not see... I'm doing my work, best I can, and I will keep doing it just like millions of other Flashers out there. This technology is growing and growing, regardless of you like it or not. Not many people liked some kind of music, and that didn't stop it at all... I am trying to be creative and I'm trying to showing that in my creations. I never ever brag about my work, and that's why I never posted any of my links in this forum, but this time I just had to post them just to ask her is it possible to have such a multimedia content on the web without using a Flash as a tool.

Sure, you don't like it, no one expected anything different, but I am more than happy that some colossal businesses out there like that kind of advertising. They pay a good money, and that money is well deserved by working hard. Why am I even trying to defend this idea ? It's nothing like Flash = pop-up add. Just try to find out little bit more about Flash.

BTW, if I tell you how large my site is from the link number 3 and when you check the time from when you click on ENTER button to when it's fully loaded, you wouldn't believe... so saying that it's loading slow is not 100% accurate. Again, it's up to the developer... if he is good in what he is doing, then he will know exactly how to optimize his site. It's not just make a Flash and publish it 

So if my site is little bit above 12 Mb, and it loads in just few seconds, imagine what can be done with some small, not that graphically demanding site  Split of a second, if optimization is done properly...

EDIT:

... annoying as well as the untraditional site navigation uncomfortable...

Well, I saw some nice Flash sites which mimics HTML styled sites 100% accurately... hardly you will ever be able to do something like that with HTML (trying to mimic Flash)

[Staind]

Sasha,

I do not quite understand what you are trying to say.  My initial purpose was to say that I do not think she intentionally meant to insult you, simply to give an opinion and I think you misunderstood it for an insult.

About the comment about professionalism, this is just an opinion from my perspective as I have stated, relax.  And no where did I say that flash was not growing nor being used by business, I just find the majority of webpages currently created with flash lack the professionalism that is being created with other types of programming. 

[szc]

I don't know why is so difficult to understand what I wrote up there... I mean my English is far from perfect (as you know, it's not my native language), but still I think I explained everything pretty nice up there...

The other thing, I don't know where did you dig it that I feel insulted by anyone in general... especially not by her. I really do not see any single line she wrote where she is trying to insult anyone. So I don't get you point...

We were just having a discussion and at one point I simply asked her, is that arguing... because I do not want to be a part of arguing process... not at all. Simple... She made her point, I made mine... I even gave some examples, so I don't see the reason to continue this thread in this tone.

[szc]

Also just to add... SEO optimization and Flash problems are not so huge as they were before. Some nice bright future ahead...

http://www.senior.co.uk/promotion/flash.asp
http://www.actionscript.org/forums/archive/index.php3/t-86603.html
http://www.seochat.com/c/a/Search-Engine-Optimization-Help/Optimize-Your-Flash-Site-for-Search-Engines/
http://www.communitymx.com/content/article.cfm?cid=74E89