I need an advise

[neal62]

First of all I stated the majority of calls I get from customers "With problems" etc. I did not say connectivity was the issue. Learn to comprehend in text what is put before you. Secondly I would not want to work for someone like you who spouts nothing but nonsense. Windows firewall cannot prevent one from connecting to the Internet since it doesn't offer "outbound" protection. I thought you might like to know this.
   Once again nothing was mentioned by me stating that the lack of a third party firewall had anything to do with connection problems, read and comprehend what is there for you to read and quit trying to put words into my mouth that I haven't spoken.
   I inform my customers when asked why their pc has problems that it is caused by a lack of layered defenses including the lack of a third party firewall.

[Mastertech]

First of all I stated the majority of calls I get from customers "With problems" etc. I did not say connectivity was the issue.

Which means the majority of your calls are due to infections, which have nothing to do with a lack of a third party firewall.

Secondly I would not want to work for someone like you who spouts nothing but nonsense.

Then please explain what I said that was nonsense.

Windows firewall cannot prevent one from connecting to the Internet since it doesn't offer "outbound" protection. I thought you might like to know this.

That is my point, it cannot. Thus it cannot be the cause of connectivity problems. Which means you are blaming infections on the lack of a third party firewall which is irresponsible. It is the lack of applied security updates, an updated AV, an updated Antispyware application and NO firewall which are responsible for infections. Though the end user is just as much to blame in most cases by manually installing crap.

I inform my customers when asked why their pc has problems that it is caused by a lack of layered defenses including the lack of a third party firewall.

If they had the Windows XP Firewall Sp2 installed then the Firewall had NOTHING to do with their problems.

[polonus]

Hi Neal,

It depends who  takes the bait  a pike or an eel. But lets make the discussion a bit more fundamental and more general.

Who actually is to blame for the situation at hand. We have come to a situation where one has to have layered protection to be secure, only a AV solution and FW cannot guarantee security for you. This can still be done completely free of charge, but you must know the way, and must be well advised. We have to admit that this is beyond the possibilities of the major public behind computers. They are only interested in fun and quick solutions, and they cannot see further than short-term benefits, because they are trained to look at things that way. I fear the situation we have is condoned for several reasons. And that is why we have all these non-educated users that form the bot-nets of to-day endangering other good-willing users on the Internet.
I have a secure computer for as much it could be made secure:
patched and updated, and all the multi-layered security on it is free. What did I have to do to achieve that? Go to this forum, read and learn from people that knew. The proof: not a single tracking cookie even in half a year.
But if I had to achieve the same situation with only MS provided software, it could be done, but I would have a much harder time.
Why do you think that Mastertech has to do all the explaining to turn a MS default OS into a more secure or secure OS. And then we are homing in on my point. They, whoever and I do not care a bit, are not interested enough about this. It is slightly better than it was, but if so we would have layered security NOW, we would have in-browser security and certificate-guaranteed security NOW. All this is possible, but only through third parties.
(siteadvisor, scriptblockers, siteblocking, hyperlink pre-scanning,
intrusion detection monitoring even against rootkits etc. etc).
And then we must think of those who profit from the situation we have: right, the adman, the spyware man, the spammer, and all those that profit from it, huge interests (read Ben Edelman to get to the core there: 6 big Media giants ruling). If everybody would install Adblock plus + Filterset GUpdater there would be a webmaster outcry all around. We have to live in this world, and I am a realist, but don't present things like they are not like with MS Firewall in Vista is the best they could come up with. ActiveX once also was the best they come up with. Be real about this, and tell it like it is.

polonus

PS I am a certified MS Approved Administer (803-902).

[neal62]

Hi Polonus,

Yes, I know what you are stating. I already stated in my post that I try to educated my customers to programs paid for or freeware for their benefit. You can understand what I wrote but obviously one individual doesn't or tries to twist the context of a spoken sentence by someone to suit his needs. I am very familiar with this sort of ploy he uses. Unfortunately he cannot get away with it when dealing with me verbally because it "seems" he doesn't have the capability to do so.
     I stated what happens in the majority of calls I answer and what I do to help the people involved. Nothing more from me needs to be said about this. I stated once before that people reading certain posts here on the forum are intelligent enough to realize what is going on. You have a great day friend Polonus. 

[Mastertech]

Do you really work on someone's computer and get all panicky when you do not see a third party firewall installed?

Tracking cookies are nonsense and no cause for concern. But that is more to the point. I do tell it like it is and whether you like it or not the best free solutions, Microsoft already provides for free.

1. Windows Defender - the only free Automatic Updating AntiSpyware application.
2. Windows XP SP2 Firewall - already built into XP and lightweight will solid inbound protection.
3. IE7 - Includes AntiPhishing built-in.

The only thing else you need is a free AV = Avast.

[Mastertech]

neal,

What you do is scare people into believing that they need a third party firewall. I didn't twist anything you said, you simply avoid the issue and still have not responded to my last comments.

[polonus]

Hi Mastertech,

The best thing is a bit of humour here. What are known to be three limitless things? A. The Universe. B. The stupidity people could come up with. C. The number of flaws in M$ code.

Ha, ha, ha. You cannot deny it.

polonus

[bob3160]

The number of flaws in M$ code.

You forgot to mention, the flaws in code aren't limited to M$.
The more a program is used or in this case abused, the more flaws will surface.
It's an unfortunate fundamental fact.

[polonus]

Hi Bob,

All code is vulnerable, because only recently they started coding with security at heart and not all. That is not easy to have the buffer overflows in mind, and the long integers, and the ways of expression that are secure or malicious. Microsoft had a lot of fingers in the code-pudding, and linked all that together in their code-soup. So they are entitled to more flaws. But jokes aside, yes there is an urgent need to look at this. Why do you think by the way I published the link for the data fuzzer online and recently the html mangler of Zalewski's. Funny thing there was that Micosoft did so bend the rules, that iIE was invulnerable to mangling, while all the alternates had to bite the dust. Some would have eaten their hats to the contrary. So you see, dear Bob, everything is not as it seems. Test, test, test, and then conclude. never take another's word for it. But I have to give credit to Avast's Great Webforum here, all that I have learned in computer security got an enormous boost from this great place. And I am grateful to those who have given me this opportunity.

polonus

[Mastertech]

Security is hardly a Microsoft Problem when you see Operating Systems like Ubuntu Linux with 172 security advisories. CVE lists over 300 entries. So what is their excuse?

I get security updates daily and by far the overwhelming majority are related to Linux.

[bob3160]

So what is their excuse?

No excuse needed.
What one programmer can code, another one can crack it's the same whether it's
created by Microsoft or a Linux.
Neither of them have a monopoly.

[galooma]

@ polonus

Thank you for bringing sense to the table.
 
@ masrtech

why are you so interested in FWF`s credentials?  if you browse through the forums you will see them everywhere , providing help and advice to people who are in need.
College degrees are one thing but what FWF brings is far more valuable and earned over time . no self proclaimed expert there.

I stand by my opinion that windows defender would not last a week on Nerons PC as it would cripple its performance and furthermore english not being his first language i think opens him up to the bugs described earlier.
 Surely imaging his hard disk would be a better option.

[FreewheelinFrank]

Thanks Cloussau!

Actually I am educated in IT to degree level. 

I'd been looking for the articles that made me doubt that Windows Firewall was to be trusted after an infection has been cleared up, and eventually found them:

http://www.spywareinfo.com/newsletter/archives/2005/oct27.php#winfirewall

http://www.pcworld.com/news/article/0,aid,122927,00.asp

Here's another worrying report I came across while searching:

http://www.spywareinfo.com/newsletter/archives/2005/mar13.php#firewall

http://habaneronetworks.com/viewArticle.php?ID=144

[polonus]

Hi FwF.

Who is blowing the horns now over the fact that people in Vista do have no further need of third party software like third party software firewalls and anti-spyware programs? Right, those that  hope to gain leaps by it like the people behind "harmless adware" like Hotbar etc. Read this:
http://www.adwarereport.com/mt/archives/000150.html

They gain by another monopoly thrust forward by Microsoft (think the EU can renew their preliminary reports). That big AV is not involved, as I see it, is just a matter of time. Wait for the next round after Vista. But some parties aren't that afraid. They say MS Vista's inbuilt firewall is years behind development:
http://www.zdnet.com.au/news/security/soa/Zone_Labs_glee_at_hobbled_Vista_firewall/0,2000061744,39252346,00.htm
In the article it says that software has to be two years ahead of MS, else the software is out of the game. These are not my words, but it is saying something about developments.

polonus

[neal62]

Interesting info FWF. Thanks for posting it for us to share.