Java

[Chim]

I don't believe I had ever encountered a website, or at least an important website prompt me that I need Java to view content properly, until today.  One of my Fav Musical Groups changed the Main Page on their website and now Opera prompted me that Java wasn't installed and that it was needed to view all the content properly.

Refresh my mind.  Is Java supposed to be Unsafe?  A Security Risk?
I CAN download it and only enable it for the websites I want and then disable it again afterwards, right?

Also, wouldn't using Java on Opera be less of a risk than on IE?

Or is it only JavaScript that's a big Security Risk?

[bunk]

I cant really attest to the security risk of it, but it does take java to make a lot of things works properly.

Are you the one that uses 98 ? If so I have no idea how to help, as 98 was before my time ( in computers )

For XP I usually go here: http://www.java.com/en/download/help/auto_install.xml Every so often if i'm having probs with something java related, and get my updates there........

Good luck with it Chim 

As with everything else, I dont leave it up to java to update itself, i'd rather decide when to update my computers..........

[DavidR]

I don't believe I had ever encountered a website, or at least an important website prompt me that I need Java to view content properly, until today.  One of my Fav Musical Groups changed the Main Page on their website and now Opera prompted me that Java wasn't installed and that it was needed to view all the content properly.

JAVA isn't required to display web pages, that is JavaScript, JAVA applets are used to run specific functions and they need to be loaded on your system, unlike JavaScript which is embedded in the web page or that web site.

It is rare that you would need JAVA, I only have two sites that I visit that need it, Secunia Software Inspector uses the applet to inspect your system for out of date applications that may have a security implication. The other is Trend Micro's Housecall an on-line AV scanner that uses JAVA as an alternative to activeX to do an antivirus scan.

Refresh my mind.  Is Java supposed to be Unsafe?  A Security Risk?
I CAN download it and only enable it for the websites I want and then disable it again afterwards, right?

Also, wouldn't using Java on Opera be less of a risk than on IE?

Or is it only JavaScript that's a big Security Risk?

JAVA isn't really a security risk as there are controls that limit what it can do. Not keeping JAVA up to date is more of a security risk as the reason for updating is usually to close vulnerabilities/exploits.

I stay well away from IE as it has activeX embedded into it and that is probably the biggest security hole, so using a browser that doesn't use activeX IMHO is better, like Firefox or Opera.

JavaScript can be exploited like any code, however with firefox you can use the NoScript add-on that stops javascript running unless you specifically allow it for that site. I don't think that Opera has an equivalent add-on.

However the web shield also provides limited protection against these exploits.

I think that with win98 you might not be able to use the latest JAVA version, you would have to check that out in the http://java.sun.com/javase/downloads/index.jsp page or within the web site.

[bunk]

I know for one example David, that a lotta game sites work with the java console...... There are a few other things as well ( i'm not real big on game sites, as I know a lot of them are risky anyway )  I was just posting from personal expeirence that there are multiple things that require java to work properly......... No offense meant here man 

And i'm pretty sure you are right about 98, heck, I know you cant run the latest version with XP / sp1, as I just recently changed over to sp2 because of multiple issues I was having with various things........

[bob3160]

as I just recently changed over to sp2

It's time to update to SP3. 

[bunk]

Hey Bob,

   While on that note, how is sp3 working out for you ? I dont really know many people that have upgraded to it..........

I might even do it someday, when / if I ever grow up   

[alanrf]

I have updated my XP systems to SP3  ... not a murmur. 

I have only one of the folks I support holding out on SP3 and that is because he lives in a location where only dial-up is available.  Hopefully a neighbor, not too far away and with a faster connection, will be able to download the update to CD and pass it on ... or I will send it by snail mail. 

[polonus]

Hi folks,

SP3 and a care less,

pol

[DavidR]

While on that note, how is sp3 working out for you ? I dont really know many people that have upgraded to it..........

Well I had a friend with broadband download the complete SP3 package (316MB of it) so that I could install it off-line, I did that on my old system and absolutely no issues.

My new system came pre-installed with WinXP Pro SP3 and again no issues.

[bob3160]

I've used SP3 since early beta days and have never had a problem. 

[Chim]

I cant really attest to the security risk of it, but it does take java to make a lot of things works properly.

Are you the one that uses 98 ? If so I have no idea how to help, as 98 was before my time ( in computers )

For XP I usually go here: http://www.java.com/en/download/help/auto_install.xml Every so often if i'm having probs with something java related, and get my updates there........

Good luck with it Chim 

As with everything else, I dont leave it up to java to update itself, i'd rather decide when to update my computers..........

Yeah, I'm the one with Prehistoric Hieroglyphics 98SE.   
And Pony Express Dial Up.  Hmmm?  That would still be too fast. 
Make that Penguin or Sea Cow Express Dial Up.

I HAD been reading some sites and they did generally echo what you're saying.  Java IS needed to spice things up and give some flair to websites and stuff ... turbo-charge 'em, I guess.  And they also all confirmed what you say that really the Security Risk enters the picture, the equation IF you do NOT keep your Java Up to Date.

The Window that I got informing me that Java was NOT installed and prompting me to download it IF I wanted to see all the content ... was just some Opera-style Message Window.  At that point, there was no indication from which source it was gonna download it.

[bob3160]

At that point, there was no indication from which source it was gonna download it.

You could always copy the link location and investigate further... 

[Chim]

JAVA isn't really a security risk as there are controls that limit what it can do. Not keeping JAVA up to date is more of a security risk as the reason for updating is usually to close vulnerabilities/exploits.

I stay well away from IE as it has activeX embedded into it and that is probably the biggest security hole, so using a browser that doesn't use activeX IMHO is better, like Firefox or Opera.

JavaScript can be exploited like any code, however with firefox you can use the NoScript add-on that stops javascript running unless you specifically allow it for that site. I don't think that Opera has an equivalent add-on.

However the web shield also provides limited protection against these exploits.

I think that with win98 you might not be able to use the latest JAVA version, you would have to check that out in the http://java.sun.com/javase/downloads/index.jsp page or within the web site.

Well, yesterday I was at a crossroads Y, pondering which route to take.  This morning the choice became very much obvious.  Apparently just from yesterday to today, they must have added even more content to that Main Page.  Yesterday it was tolerable.  Today was a different story.  Since I had done a Windows Reinstall last night, I was loading the website in question from scratch this morning.  2.5 MB and 13 minutes later, the Main Page was still loading and loading and loading.  I reached my threshold, "That's IT!  I've had enough of this nonsense!  This Main Page has just Java-ed itself out of my rotation."  I pulled the plug and Clicked on the X to stop loading.  I then did what I should have done all along.  I just clicked on the Newsletter Button up on top and went to the Newsletter Page, which doesn't require Java.  That's why I go there anyway, just for the once a week Newsletter reading.  So, now I Bookmarked the Newsletter Page and slapped THAT one on my Opera Speed Dial instead of the Java-hungry New Main Page.

This is the website with the New Java-ized Main Page in question.  See if any of you all with Java-fortified computers can tell me WHAT on that Main Page is Java-produced:

http://rubenramos.homestead.com/menu.html

It's no doubt something I can't see since I don't have Java installed.  But, I mean, heck ... I already see the Band Pic, the Upcoming Shows and the vertically-scrolling Info.  That had already been displayed clearly when I pulled the plug on it.  That's why I kept wondering what in Javamania could have still been endlessly loading.

[oldman]

The latest java for win98/me is 5.0 update 16. It's fully patched,

http://www.java.com/en/download/windows98me_manual.jsp?locale=en&host=www.java.com:80