Author Topic: Microsoft vs. Apple  (Read 14763 times)

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Offline bob3160

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Microsoft vs. Apple
« on: September 08, 2006, 03:07:16 PM »
Chris Pirillo has an interesting article on this subject.
Since a lot of experts feel that Vista isn't really all it could have been
in light of the length of time it's taken Microsoft to put it together.
A great alternative would be the ability to dual boot between OSX and Vista.
Quote
Vista - it’s still the same ol’ Windows with a new look to it.
They could have sandboxed all legacy code into virtual machines much like Apple did with their legacy applications.
It was painful for a while, but so was the transition between 16-bit and 32-bit code if you remember!
Oh, and Vista’s not faring well with the 64-bit stuff according to reports -
so even this Windows situation is going to get worse before it comes close to getting better.

Since OSX now operates on an Intel chip, this is a great Idea and would do wonders to make
Apple a major contender in the OS market.
Apple is also about ready to release their next upgrade called Leopard

I would much rather spend money for adding Dual Boot capability to OSX or Leopard than spend it
to upgrade to a still developing and unfinished Vista.
Chris's full article can be found at:
http://channels.lockergnome.com:80/windows/archives/20060907_microsoft_vs_apple.phtml

What are your thoughts on this opportunity to push for an Apple - Microsoft Computer ?


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Offline Lisandro

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Re: Microsoft vs. Apple
« Reply #1 on: September 08, 2006, 03:16:31 PM »
A great alternative would be the ability to dual boot between OSX and Vista.
Since OSX now operates on an Intel chip
Well, is there any possibility of testing OSX in a VMWare environment...?
I'll love if Mac give me a license to test it  ;D ;)
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Re: Microsoft vs. Apple
« Reply #2 on: September 08, 2006, 03:56:41 PM »
If i could dual boot MacOS & Windows on my comp i would use windows only for gaming and nothing else... For serious work(graphics, web design, programming etc.) MacOS would be sooooooo nice.

Offline DavidR

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Re: Microsoft vs. Apple
« Reply #3 on: September 08, 2006, 04:12:42 PM »
It was a good article and since it comes in the LockerGnome 'Windows Fanatics' newsletter a bit revolutionary, especially when he is talking about his wife moving to it an he is likely to follow.

There have also been a number of Comments on disappointment in Vista in the newsletter and that may be a driving force towards Apple.

But me I doubt I will make the switch, it isn't just the cost of Apple systems, which are coming down in price since the move to Intel chips (they are still more expensive than other systems). What concerns me more is the cost of replacement software or it will be a little sparse in my Mac world.

Some will say you can still use your Windows software with dual boot, but to me that kind of defeats the object of making the switch to a Mac only to continue to use windows ???
So we have to decide why it is that we want to move to a Mac for, if it is for a more stable, secure or better Operating System (OS X Tiger or the new Leopard) than XP or possibly Vista, then it doesn't make sense to continue dual booting into Windows. Gaming as has been mentioned is one of the areas that the Mac couldn't compete and give reason to dual boot or purchase of an Xbox ;D ;D
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Re: Microsoft vs. Apple
« Reply #4 on: September 08, 2006, 04:19:08 PM »
If you want to dual boot Windows and mac OS X you can. Just buy a mac and download bootcamp.

Tech, OS X looks for a TPM chip on the motherboard to verify it is being installed on a Mac if it does not find it it will not install

Quote
it isn't just the cost of Apple systems, which are coming down in price since the move to Intel chips (they are still more expensive than other systems).

If you Build your own PC then yes the mac is still More expensive. However If you configure two systems equally then the Mac is even if not a little less expensive (or a lot less if you look at the link below)

http://www.macworld.com/2006/08/features/macproprice/index.php
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Re: Microsoft vs. Apple
« Reply #5 on: September 08, 2006, 04:24:09 PM »
Mac,
Quote
If you want to dual boot Windows and mac OS X you can. Just buy a mac and download bootcamp.
Why doesn't Apple get smart and make something like that for those of us that already have the right hardware
but are currently using a Microsoft operating system like XP.
You'll never get me to buy a Mack and throw what I've already invested in into the garbage.
I would however spend money on converting my current system to run both operating systems.
I'm sure I'm not the only one that feels that way. :)
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Offline szc

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Re: Microsoft vs. Apple
« Reply #6 on: September 08, 2006, 04:25:35 PM »
If i could dual boot MacOS & Windows on my comp i would use windows only for gaming and nothing else... For serious work(graphics, web design, programming etc.) MacOS would be sooooooo nice.

Miha, Apple computers are kind of standard in pre-print and printing design industry, but when it comes to web design, especially multimedia nothing can be compared to PCs. It is well known that Apple machines have unbelievable problems with playing Flash content. It's so much slower and slugish even on G5s and even on these new babies like MacBook and MacBook Pro (dual Intel processors). I checked some stuff on old Celeron 533 Mhz and it works much faster than on any of those above mentioned Apple machines, which is really sad.

http://www.kaourantin.net/2005/07/why-does-flash-player-8-on-mac-perform.html
Read some of those reviews at the bottom... Mac's simply can't run Flash, that's the problem... some of those reviewers are going back to PCs because they do Flash for a living and they can not do that on Apple machines as they can do that on PCs. There are some comments like that inside this quote:

Some quoted... list goes on and on :))))

Quote
>>   welly said...
>>   The flash player 8.0.5.0 is so slow on mac i cant believe you can say
>> anything has been improved , i can run animations on a celeron 333 faster
>> on Fp7 than I can on an imac g5 , it is embarassing , using safari on mac
>> and firefox on pc btw , i dont know technical details i think this says
>> it more http://www.powerflasher.de/bench/res.php macs are way down the
>> list , but i do know slow and the mac performance sucks
>>
>>   Tuesday, August 16, 2005 3:53:20 PM
>>
>>   Anonymous said...
>>
>>   You seem to be very excited about the open GL addition, yet the macs
>> performance - even with the open GL addition, performs like a snail in
>> comparrison to even an old PC.
>>
>>
>>
>>   I can crunch video at a blistering rate and run photoshop smoothly on
>> my G5, but my 350MHZ dusty compaq can tear through even simple flash
>> animations like 10 times faster. It's truly embarrassing.
>>
>>
>>
>>   ekko said...
>>
>>   I hate to agree to this, but it's true. The Flash player for both
>> Firefox and Safari are completely inferior to the PC Flash Player. I've
>> been designing and programming in Flash for years and I've worked on both
>> platforms and though I'd love to stay with apple for many reasons, but I
>> have to go back to PC for this reason alone.

>>
>>
>>   Anonymous said...
>>
>>   It is February 2006 and just last sunday I went to the Apple Store in
>> my local mall. They had an internet connection on all the latest dual
>> core, dual cpu Macs with gobs of ram, and 2Gighz per cpu, and good 3D
>> video cards, the latest upgrade patches to Safari and OSX. I proceeded to
>> test cool Flash websites that run fast on any PC, even POS old Celerons
>> from 1999...OMG... The latest and greatest, most powerful Macs ever built
>> with the new Intel CPU's are still pathetic at playing Flash!! I think
>> this goes to show that even with the same CPU, same RAM, same video card,
>> that there is still yet 1 last thing slowing down all Macs... and that is
>> the OS! I bet if someone were able to hook up the Mac Intel CPU and run
>> it on WindowsXP or hell even Windows95, it would run circles around any
>> version of Mac OS when comparing Flash playback of the same flash movie.
>> Apple better start using WinXP or Vista for the next upgrade to finally
>> bring Macs into the PC realm of web browsing without slow/choppy
>> performance..

I've got a chance to try some Flash sites on G5 as well as on MacBook Pro in Best buy... incredibly slow... not just that it's not smooth, but it was horrible... literally frame by frame animation. I would go crazy if I have to wait that long when I'm testing my Flash work. PCs are smooth and everything works perfectly, and that is most likely because of the way PCs deals with DirectX the way they do.

EDIT: and we have to remember... Flash is not Macromedia anymore, it is ADOBE (!), so they really need to do something regarding this if they want everything to go back to normal.
« Last Edit: September 08, 2006, 04:33:05 PM by szc »
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Offline DavidR

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Re: Microsoft vs. Apple
« Reply #7 on: September 08, 2006, 04:46:09 PM »
If you want to dual boot Windows and mac OS X you can. Just buy a mac and download bootcamp.

Tech, OS X looks for a TPM chip on the motherboard to verify it is being installed on a Mac if it does not find it it will not install

Quote
it isn't just the cost of Apple systems, which are coming down in price since the move to Intel chips (they are still more expensive than other systems).

If you Build your own PC then yes the mac is still More expensive. However If you configure two systems equally then the Mac is even if not a little less expensive (or a lot less if you look at the link below)

http://www.macworld.com/2006/08/features/macproprice/index.php

I think M2 is saying dual boot on his existing system, not by a Mac, but we know Apple won't let that happen (as you mention with the TMP chip). If people could buy and install OS X and install that on their existing system no one (or many less) would be buying the Macs, Apple does it to protect their sales.

Even systems bought of the shelf are cheaper than Macs not just self build, hell the want £399 for a Mac Mini single core and £529 for a dual core chip in the UK. You want to see what I can buy off the shelf for £529 or a Dell system (God forbid) for that money. A basic Mac Book here is around £749, iMac £879, Mac Book Pro now were getting into the realms of crazy money.

Whilst the macworld link may try to compare prices and software, etc. but I would hardly cal that independent, I'm sure that Dell could put a different spin on things. I've just been reading a 5 page 'Should your next computer be an Apple' article in Micro Mart where much of this is covered.
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Re: Microsoft vs. Apple
« Reply #8 on: September 08, 2006, 05:01:23 PM »
So sad Sasha!

I had no idea Mac's suck so badly for Flash ... I only worked with Photoshop once using a mac(i think it was a g4) and that worked pretty well(altough far from fast hehe). But it was really really stable and that was the main reason i liked it so much. I cannot tell you how frustrated i get when i have Photoshop crash in windows in the middle of some serious work and i  loose hours of work(i learned to save my work very often now ;) ). Stability is very important to me(and i am 100% sure for you as well) and since adobe and macromedia make programs for macosx too i thought it would be cool running macosx on MY comp. So yeah i wans't actually talking about buying a mac(like david pointed out) but running macosx on my old taiwanese PC(built by myself).

P.S: an even better thing would be if adobe made their programs run on linux ;)

Cheers,

Mikey

Offline Lisandro

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Re: Microsoft vs. Apple
« Reply #9 on: September 08, 2006, 05:07:38 PM »
I would however spend money on converting my current system to run both operating systems.
I wish virtualization could allow at least to take a look into Mac environment...
I can run Linux virtualized into Windows (and viceversa)... maybe there is a way just to run virtualized Mac into VMWare... but I'm not sure about that. I'll dig a little more...
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Re: Microsoft vs. Apple
« Reply #10 on: September 08, 2006, 05:13:49 PM »
I can run Linux virtualized into Windows (and viceversa)... maybe there is a way just to run virtualized Mac into VMWare... but I'm not sure about that. I'll dig a little more...

I guess you would have to have some sort of program that would fool macosx into thinking you have that TPM chip onboard ... If you find such a thing please let us now(altough i seriously doubt you will) ;)


Offline bob3160

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Re: Microsoft vs. Apple
« Reply #11 on: September 08, 2006, 05:19:19 PM »
Quote
I can run Linux virtualized into Windows (and viceversa)... maybe there is a way just to run virtualized Mac into VMWare... but I'm not sure about that. I'll dig a little more...
No Tech,
The idea here is to let both operating systems get off their high horses and start
listening to the consumer.
I'm not looking to run a Virtual operating system.
Both systems operate on an Intel processor. Allow Dual Booting.
We can currently do that in Linux why not Apple?
I don't want to buy a Mac I already have a computer that can run 2 operating systems without any problems:
Windows and Linux and (OSX ?)
I just want to add OSX to the list.  Let Apple start selling their operating system to run on my Dual Core Intel Processor.
Apple, don't try to sell me a whole new computer just your operating system!!!!
I think that makes good business sense.
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Offline neal63

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Re: Microsoft vs. Apple
« Reply #12 on: September 08, 2006, 05:32:45 PM »
At the place where I work we just recently had a customer bring in a G4?, I believe. Well the power supply was fried, had a different type of electrical connector than a pc etc. For this 125 watt supply to be replaced when we contacted a Mac distributor, the cost of a new power supply of equal wattage etc would have cost as much as a much larger power supply that would replace a pc power supply. The customer just decided to buy another G4 hopefully off of Ebay instead. I wouldn't mind trying what I could of Apple as long as I could use my own pc or similiar.  :)
« Last Edit: September 08, 2006, 05:36:57 PM by neal63 »
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Offline .: Mac :.

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Re: Microsoft vs. Apple
« Reply #13 on: September 08, 2006, 06:29:43 PM »
Sasha Flash Performance in Safari is Terrible but what about in Firefox?


Bob, Apple will not sell Mac OS X for non-apple hardware for 2 reasons

1)  apple is a HARDWARE company they make most of their money off of the hardware
2)  Mac OS X is so great because Apple controls what hardware it runs on, if they made it avaliable to PC users they would have to support all that hardware floating around and there would be the same driver problems that windows has.
« Last Edit: September 08, 2006, 06:34:17 PM by .: Mac :. »
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Offline DavidR

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Re: Microsoft vs. Apple
« Reply #14 on: September 08, 2006, 06:36:58 PM »
Flash on the very odd occasion that I use it works fine on firefox.
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