Author Topic: Avast detected Vista's trustedinstaller.exe as a Rootkit?  (Read 38186 times)

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Offline briton

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Re: Avast detected Vista's trustedinstaller.exe as a Rootkit?
« Reply #15 on: August 14, 2008, 03:28:27 AM »
As I stated before, this is NOT a false positive. I submitted the file to VirusTotal and got the all-clear response from all programs.

However, I submitted the file to the avast! team so that they could discover why the heuristic analysis was producing an advisory on a file which is part of the Windows Vista updates.

I still hope that Avast! will change something in that advisory message. First of all, this particular file has the kind of name which looks suspicious - how could Microsoft come up with a more stupid name for a system file - TrustedInstaller - isn't that just the kind of name a virus writer would come up with? lol

More importantly, many users (the vast majority?) will not have seen this advisory before. To be offered a choice where the "recommended" action is "Ignore" is not conducive to following the recommendation. Surely many will have the unanswered question in their minds: "Does ignore mean ignore the file or ignore this message?" A slightly more useful recommendation would include wording such as "Recommended Action: Ignore (which will allow the operating system to continue without action by avast! but the user should take note of the filename in case it is reported again"

Again, this was NOT a report that there was a virus.
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Offline DavidR

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Re: Avast detected Vista's trustedinstaller.exe as a Rootkit?
« Reply #16 on: August 14, 2008, 02:32:49 PM »
Have you tried downloading and using the file Igor gave the link for ?
If so can you post the output.
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Offline briton

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Re: Avast detected Vista's trustedinstaller.exe as a Rootkit?
« Reply #17 on: August 18, 2008, 08:54:27 PM »
Have you tried downloading and using the file Igor gave the link for ?
If so can you post the output.
Signature of "C:\Windows\servicing\TrustedInstaller.exe" verified.
Details:

Signature type:     Catalog
Program name:       Microsoft Windows
Program URL:        http://www.microsoft.com/windows
Issuer :            Microsoft Windows Verification PCA
Subject :           Microsoft Windows
Signing Timestamp : 01/20/2008 00:49


(Note that I also sent the TrustedInstaller.exe file to the Alwil team as requested.)
« Last Edit: August 18, 2008, 08:59:37 PM by briton »
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Offline Lisandro

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Re: Avast detected Vista's trustedinstaller.exe as a Rootkit?
« Reply #19 on: August 20, 2008, 03:52:45 AM »
Signature of "C:\Windows\servicing\TrustedInstaller.exe" verified.

As I stated before, this is NOT a false positive.

Isn't this contradictory? A signed file should be a clean file (if the source is secure).
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Offline briton

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Re: Avast detected Vista's trustedinstaller.exe as a Rootkit?
« Reply #20 on: August 20, 2008, 03:43:13 PM »
Signature of "C:\Windows\servicing\TrustedInstaller.exe" verified.

As I stated before, this is NOT a false positive.

Isn't this contradictory? A signed file should be a clean file (if the source is secure).
If you are asking me, my response is that my statement that "this is not a false positive" merely means that avast! did not report the file as containing malware. My understanding is that a "positive" is defined as avast! finding a file which is KNOWN to contain malware whereas this was just an advisory based on heuristic analysis which, I believe, is not considered a "positive".

Although there was an advisory report from avast! about the file, that does not mean that it is not a "clean file" does it? avast! is certainly not reporting that it is not clean.

Having said that, I still believe that Alwil would do well to increase the information given on the dialog box so that users would have no doubt that "Ignore" is a good idea!

If you are asking the avast! team, sorry that I responded!
« Last Edit: August 20, 2008, 03:45:50 PM by briton »
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Offline Lisandro

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Re: Avast detected Vista's trustedinstaller.exe as a Rootkit?
« Reply #21 on: August 21, 2008, 08:10:50 PM »
False positive is a clean file that the security program detects as being infected.
It's clean but wrongly detected, so, false positive.
Signed files (from safe sources like Microsoft) are clean.

Maybe we're talking the same with different speeches.
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Offline briton

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Re: Avast detected Vista's trustedinstaller.exe as a Rootkit?
« Reply #22 on: August 22, 2008, 09:50:16 AM »
I would call it a false positive. Avast! say that it isn't - it was merely heuristic. I think that is technically correct, but very misleading hence my suggestion that they change the wording of the advisory dialog box that is used when heuristic analysys "suggests" that there may be a problem.
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mbrown

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Re: Avast detected Vista's trustedinstaller.exe as a Rootkit?
« Reply #23 on: February 11, 2009, 03:06:39 PM »
I have had the same issue this morning when doing windows Updates. I ran the little program and it said the file was okay. I also uploaded it to VirusTotal for them to run a scan on it. Nothing turned up. I did submit it but clicked on ignored.

I agree that the file name should be changed by Microsoft.

thanks

mbrown

psaxelby

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Re: Avast detected Vista's trustedinstaller.exe as a Rootkit?
« Reply #24 on: August 15, 2009, 06:12:26 PM »
Hi,
Just happened to be doing an update, got the Avast message about trusted installer.

It's still doing the update, I ran the checkinst program & got:

Signature of "C:\Windows\Servicing\TrustedInstaller.exe" NOT verified [800B0100]

Is that good or bad?

File was allowed to be submitted.

Regards,
Paul.
« Last Edit: August 15, 2009, 07:42:56 PM by psaxelby »

Offline briton

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Re: Avast detected Vista's trustedinstaller.exe as a Rootkit?
« Reply #25 on: September 02, 2009, 12:11:07 AM »
Hi,
Just happened to be doing an update, got the Avast message about trusted installer.

It's still doing the update, I ran the checkinst program & got:

Signature of "C:\Windows\Servicing\TrustedInstaller.exe" NOT verified [800B0100]

Is that good or bad?

File was allowed to be submitted.

Regards,
Paul.

Well the short answer is good news - it isn't bad. If you want to be absolutely sure, use the free online virus checkers to check that one file (see elsewhere on this site for a list of the ones you might try.)

If you want to understand why avast! will report it and CONTINUE to report it, here is the long answer...

Basically, all worthwhile antivirus programs have files full of known viruses which you update regularly. This allows them to quickly and easily identify the presence or otherwise of any of those viruses somewhere in your system and, because they are known, avast! can recommend specific action and usually offer a means of cleaning files. Otherwise it offers you the chance simply to delete them or, if you need to be able to study the problem and maybe check whether the problem is real or not, they offer the chance to isolate the file into the chest which means no program can access the file.

IF you get a file which is reported by the method explained, i.e. avast! is identifying that there is a virus on the basis of the up-to-date virus definitions, and you then check that file (using free online AV checkers a list of which you can find suggested elsewhere in these forums) and discover that ONLY avast! is reporting it, you use the report system to send it to the avast! team and they make sure that (a) it is NOT a virus and (b) they adjust their later virus definition files to ensure that it isn't reported again (another reason for keeping your definitions regularly updated). That would be termed A FALSE POSITIVE. That means that a virus is being reported based on an up-to-date virus definitions file when in fact there is no virus.

The difference with the TrustedInstaller.exe file (apart from the fact that it just SCREAMS of being the type of name a Virus creator would choose  ;D ) is that it is not being identified and reported based on the virus definitions file. It has to do with your own settings of avast! and I strongly recommend you NOT to change them now that you, hopefully, understand them. Your avast! settings are enabling what is called heuristic analysis. This is a GOOD thing and is NOT available in every antivirus program. So what is it and why should you allow avast! to use it? Well, the answer lies in the way in which those virus definition files get updated by avast! so that you can update them on your system. Imagine a brand new virus - one that is not simply a rehashed existing known-about virus which is already in the definitions files of all the major antivirus programs including avast! So it infects some systems. People have problems and the clever guys at the various antivirus program centres work out what it is, how to identify it and immediately every AV program company updates their virus definitions to include it. You update your files and, assuming your system hasn't yet been infected (which it shouldn't have if you didn't disable heuristice analysis), you can't get that virus because avast! with updated definitions will find it before it can do damage.

However, imagine the worst case scenario - a file containing that brand new not-yet-in-the-definitions virus arrives on your system. If you don't have heuristic analysis enabled, avast! will almost certainly not identify it as being harmful (although it is possible that it will, the important thing is that you shouldn't rely on it). So your system gets infected. This is bad. And because it is a new virus, the clever teams may not have come up yet with a simple way to clean your system. Not just bad - nasty! BUT if you had heuristic analysis enabled, avast! would say "Hey! This file contains something which, while not being listed in my definitions, has all the attributes of malware - even a virus - so I had better let my owner know that there MAY be a problem so that he has the choice to (a) make sure my definitions are up to date and (b) check this file out using something else or (c) go and read if someone else on the forums has had the same problem."

The problem is that heuristic analysis MUST identify a small number of system files which don't include any malware but they do things which look like what a new virus might do. The most likely candidates are always going to be files which install system things and change system files in order to do it and there are a bunch of these in Windows systems for the obvious reason that Microsoft try to make Windows systems idiot-proof yet able to be used by idiots like you and me   ::) Some of these, avast! developers can stop avast! identifying within the heuristic part of the engine but sometimes, to do so, they would effectively be disabling the heuristic analysis system to be pointless. Hence TrustedInstaller.exe shows up as potentially having a problem thereby allowing you to do what you have done and maybe to check it out with other AV systems before you proceed.

If you read this far, thanks for your patience - I figured that if you wanted to understand it, it would be worth setting it out in non-technical detail. Hope that explains it so that you understand your avast! and its settings a bit better.

If any avast! experts want to add anything correcting any mistakes I may have made, please please add them below! Thanks!
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Offline Vladimyr

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Re: Avast detected Vista's trustedinstaller.exe as a Rootkit?
« Reply #26 on: September 02, 2009, 05:46:58 AM »
As I have often said, heuristics is guessing.
Very useful, but never "beyond reasonable doubt".
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Offline briton

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Re: Avast detected Vista's trustedinstaller.exe as a Rootkit?
« Reply #27 on: September 02, 2009, 09:48:23 PM »
As I have often said, heuristics is guessing.
Very useful, but never "beyond reasonable doubt".
That's one way of looking at it. But if more users understood how avast! attempts to protect their systems, they would also know something of the limitations of AV protection generally.

I like to think of the inclusion of heuristic analysis as providing users with information to allow them to make a reasoned decision about protecting their own systems. If you look at operating systems and software today, the approach is more and more to protect the system from the user. Some of us like to think we are smart enough to make a few decisions ourselves  ::)
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Offline DavidR

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Re: Avast detected Vista's trustedinstaller.exe as a Rootkit?
« Reply #28 on: September 02, 2009, 10:15:08 PM »
Yes there is guessing, S.W.A.G. (Scientific Wild Assed Guess) and educated/informed guess based on a set of circumstances/parameters. This should take much of the guess out of guesswork ;D
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Offline briton

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Re: Avast detected Vista's trustedinstaller.exe as a Rootkit?
« Reply #29 on: September 03, 2009, 08:48:51 PM »
Yes there is guessing, S.W.A.G. (Scientific Wild Assed Guess) and educated/informed guess based on a set of circumstances/parameters. This should take much of the guess out of guesswork ;D

Nice! And you are right, but it depends from which direction you are looking. From the standpoint of the system, heuristics APPEAR to be guessing. But look from the viewpoint of the potential virus creator:

"Without heuristics to get past, all I have to do is to create a virus which does what I want it to do and which does not demonstrate any significant qualities of any previous virus."

"With heuristics to get past, I have to create a virus which does not demonstrate any of the core qualities which a virus must possess."

Given the choice between enabling heuristics and getting the odd report like TrustedInstaller.exe and disabling heuristics (or using an AV program without them), I think I will go with the occasional bit of research! lol
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