Author Topic: Sympatico (Canada) Windows Mail SMTP error with Avast  (Read 12968 times)

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aqk

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Sympatico (Canada) Windows Mail SMTP error with Avast
« on: October 03, 2008, 08:49:29 PM »
This has been discussed in other threads here, with no resolution yet, so far as I know.

Recently my Windows email (formerly called Outlook Express) began to get an SMTP Send error-
" Server: 'smtphm.sympatico.ca', Protocol: SMTP, Server Response: '250 OK', Port: 25, Secure(SSL): Yes, Server Error: 250, Error Number: 0x800CCC7D

The only way I could send  MS windows mail through my Sympatico ISP acct was to
  -turn off the AVAST Internet Mail provider in system tray,
  -send the mail,
  -Turn on the Avast mail provider again.

  Currently the Sympatico mail server above uses:
   encrypting:  3DES
   outgoing mail (SMTP) port 25  with SSL
   incoming mail (POP3) port 995 with SSL

  I noticed that there was a lot of complaints on BBSs about sending Sympatico mail with Norton Antivirus and McAfee antivirus.
  The general suggestions given were to (LOL!) replace your Norton or McAfee with Avast, which worked OK with Sympatico.
  Now, Avast does not even work with Sympatico.

  Don't feel bad, Alwil- you're in good company!  ;D

  Any resolutions to this problem, other than temporarily turning off the Avast Mail Provider subsystem?
 (maybe I should replace Sympatico wih another ISP!)  ;)
 
   - Thanx.

« Last Edit: October 03, 2008, 08:54:33 PM by aqk »

Offline DavidR

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Re: Sympatico (Canada) Windows Mail SMTP error with Avast
« Reply #1 on: October 03, 2008, 10:30:19 PM »
It is because Sympatico uses SSL (secure encrypted) email on port 25 which is for standard SMTP protocol email. avast can't handle SSL traffic, that is the whole point of secure email to keep prying eyes out including anti-viruses.

You will have no problem with the incoming SSL email as that correctly uses the secure port 995 that 'isn't' monitored by avast's email scanner.

Does Sympatico not give an alternative port for sending email, like port 465.

This is a common issue with the misuse of the SMTP port by Sympatico, so check out this topic.

SYMPATICO SSL & PORT 25 -
The fix for sending email with sympatico is recorded here.
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YoKenny

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Re: Sympatico (Canada) Windows Mail SMTP error with Avast
« Reply #2 on: October 03, 2008, 11:30:25 PM »
I use Sympatico but I use Outlook Express on my 3 XP SP3 systems and I don't have a problem sending email and I use the standard port 25 for sending. 

I remember my friend has a new type modem that has to be set up with SSL connection.

Offline Lisandro

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Re: Sympatico (Canada) Windows Mail SMTP error with Avast
« Reply #3 on: October 03, 2008, 11:33:58 PM »
More info about Sympatico...

Quote
However, in case anyone else reads this - we know now that Sympatico recommends to its customers to send mail (SMTP) using a secure connection (TLS) on port 25.  This is a rather non-standard use of port 25 and one with which avast cannot contend.  The only realistic solution at present is for users of Sympatico email and avast to turn off outbound email scanning in the avast Internet Mail provider.

The fault here is more with Sympatico than avast and it has been discussed many times in this forum if you care to search.

There are incredibly few ISPs on the planet that are stupid enough to implement SSL security using port 25 for SMTP as Sympatico has done - I can think of only a couple of others that are doing the same thing ... one is in Portugal.  It is a de facto standard of email worldwide that port 25 is used for unsecured email connections.  The de facto email standard for sending SMTP with SSL is port 465.

avast, quite reasonably, assumes that it can scan port 25 connections because the standard is that port 25 connections are unsecured.  If there is a requirement from the email server (as there is with Sympatico) that port 25 be secured then avast will, unfortunately, get in the way and prevent the connection.  If you happen to be a Sympatico user you have no choice but to turn off outbound scanning.
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YoKenny

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Re: Sympatico (Canada) Windows Mail SMTP error with Avast
« Reply #4 on: October 03, 2008, 11:40:06 PM »
Quote
If you happen to be a Sympatico user you have no choice but to turn off outbound scanning.
Shouldn't Avast detect the bad stuff before it is sent out?

I have outbound scanning turned off I believe.

Offline Lisandro

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Re: Sympatico (Canada) Windows Mail SMTP error with Avast
« Reply #5 on: October 03, 2008, 11:47:16 PM »
Quote
If you happen to be a Sympatico user you have no choice but to turn off outbound scanning.
Shouldn't Avast detect the bad stuff before it is sent out?

I have outbound scanning turned off I believe.
Yes... avast can't scan SSL connections (inbound or outbound)... without Stunnel.
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Offline alanrf

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Re: Sympatico (Canada) Windows Mail SMTP error with Avast
« Reply #6 on: October 04, 2008, 03:39:07 AM »
Quote
If you happen to be a Sympatico user you have no choice but to turn off outbound scanning.
Shouldn't Avast detect the bad stuff before it is sent out?

I have outbound scanning turned off I believe.

I believe you are quoting me before I was enlightened by the research of another user that is referenced in the link that Tech posted in reply #1 above.  This allows the avoidance of the problem for the (stupid) decision of Sympatico to use SSL on port 25 but still allows the user to have outbound scanning for standard unsecured port 25 SMTP connections for any other email accounts. 

avast cannot detect "the bad stuff" if (as is the case with secure email connections) the whole thing is secured end to end and protected from the scanning of avast (or any other anti-virus product). 

However, I question the value of outbound scanning at all - if your system is protected by avast and clean then it is pretty much redundant.  None of your correspondents should ever rely on your outbound scanning but rely on the inbound scanning provided by their ISP for email or their own scanning of email by their choice of anti-virus product.
« Last Edit: October 04, 2008, 03:41:10 AM by alanrf »

aqk

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Re: Sympatico (Canada) Windows Mail SMTP error with Avast
« Reply #7 on: October 04, 2008, 08:20:32 AM »
Thanx fer the advice-

I realize that port 25 is the "unsecured" port, but it's for sending.
So- I turn off Avast's email scanning.
But how do I turn it off only for OUTBOUND mail?

Let's assume that Avast has already protected my system from virii,
and I am clean. 
Will stopping the Avast Internet Mail provider only affect outbound traffic?
What happens to my inbound stuff on port 995?  Will Avast still scan it?
THIS is what I need to scan!

  Grrr...   damn Sympatico!  Their parent, Bell Canada, will not even lay down any fiber-optic in my rural neighbourhood,  and I am forced to endure dial up at 37 Kbs!

 And don't tell me to get a crappy satellite dish!  Info?
See  www.internet-rurale.org  and if you are in Quebec, SIGN IT!

And NATIONALIZE BELL!   >:(


  Thanx fer the comments.



YoKenny

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Re: Sympatico (Canada) Windows Mail SMTP error with Avast
« Reply #8 on: October 04, 2008, 10:39:49 AM »

  Grrr...   damn Sympatico!  Their parent, Bell Canada, will not even lay down any fiber-optic in my rural neighbourhood,  and I am forced to endure dial up at 37 Kbs!
I'm sure you could get it if you are willing to pay for it and maybe get a few neighbors to join you.   

Quote
And don't tell me to get a crappy satellite dish!  Info?
See  www.internet-rurale.org  and if you are in Quebec, SIGN IT!

And NATIONALIZE BELL!   >:(


  Thanx fer the comments.
I would not wish satellite Internet on anybody as the weather wreaks havoc on reliability not to mention the latency delays.

Offline alanrf

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Re: Sympatico (Canada) Windows Mail SMTP error with Avast
« Reply #9 on: October 04, 2008, 07:04:03 PM »
The whole point of using secure connections is that they cannot be scanned by anyone or anything.

No antivirus product can scan email delivered on a secure connection.  You are using secure connections to Sympatico email.

You can run the Internet Mail provider of avast and avoid the problem with sending with Sympatico as explained in this thread.

However your incoming Sympatico mail will not be scanned by avast because you are using a secure connection.

It is almost certain that Sympatico is scanning your inbound mail. If you want avast to scan the email delivered via secure connections then, at present, you need the services of a third party free program called STunnel to manage the secure connections and allow the email to be scanned securely inside your system.  If you need help with Stunnel we will be happy to assist you.  The avast team advise that the function currently provided by STunnel will be provided internally in the next major update of avast (version 5).   

aqk

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Re: Sympatico (Canada) Windows Mail SMTP error with Avast
« Reply #10 on: October 07, 2008, 10:01:13 AM »
Thanx for the advice.
Yeah, makes sense- if Avast or "anyone" can scan it, then it's obviously not secure.

 I'll probably leave my Avast mail provider disabled then. And trust that I DO NOT have any virii here that might be sent out!

Perhaps I'll have a look at that STUNNEL in my spare time.

  Case closed.  Thanx again!

CharleyO

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Re: Sympatico (Canada) Windows Mail SMTP error with Avast
« Reply #11 on: October 07, 2008, 10:21:45 AM »
***

You might want to leave the mail scanner on. If you should happen to get infected by a spambot, this will alert you that too much email is being sent out from your computer. Otherwise, you might get the alert from Simpatico when they block your internet connection for spamming.


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Offline DavidR

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Re: Sympatico (Canada) Windows Mail SMTP error with Avast
« Reply #12 on: October 07, 2008, 04:13:33 PM »
Thanx for the advice.
Yeah, makes sense- if Avast or "anyone" can scan it, then it's obviously not secure.

 I'll probably leave my Avast mail provider disabled then. And trust that I DO NOT have any virii here that might be sent out!
<snip>

Whilst ignoring your case closed comment, I think it might be that if it were a simple option you would choose it.

I too agree that disabling outbound scanning isn't worth the risk when the solution has been given in two previous links (the last by Alan) to exclude sympatico port 25 from scans.

Internet Mail > Customize > Redirect tab > Ignored address: field, add the smtphm.sympatico.ca:25 as the Ignored address, see image.

This will allow the Sympatico emails to be sent without being scanned, but any other outbound email on port 25 would be scanned. This could be your first indication of a spambot on your system, but you would need to set the Internet Mail sensitivity to HIGH.
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aqk

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Re: Sympatico (Canada) Windows Mail SMTP error with Avast
« Reply #13 on: October 16, 2008, 07:19:25 AM »
Hey, thanx, DavidR !
This "ignore redirect of sympatico port 25" seems like a reasonable solution! 
Will try it.

If you DOT NOT hear from me here, then assume it is working satisfactorily.

Thanx again!



Offline DavidR

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Re: Sympatico (Canada) Windows Mail SMTP error with Avast
« Reply #14 on: October 16, 2008, 02:48:31 PM »
You're welcome, but don't be a stranger to the forums ;D

Stick around and browse the forums, especially the sticky topics at the top of each of the forums, not to mention the avast help file. They provide a wealth of information to help you get the best from avast.
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