Author Topic: Why Upgrade Windows SPs?  (Read 30876 times)

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Offline essexboy

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Re: Why Upgrade Windows SPs?
« Reply #15 on: November 14, 2008, 07:26:22 PM »
I would agree RejZoR about Vista.  I have been running it for over 18 months now with no problems, most of the gripes at the beginning were with third party drivers not being up to the required standard and I don't think you can blame  MS for that as information was provided early.  As a point to note Avast was Vista compliant long before other AV programmes, and if they can do it why not the rest ?  Suffice it to say I would not  go back to XP.  With XP I was reformating every 6 months or so as it slowed down to a crawl ( I experiment with a lot of beta programmes)

Offline ardvark

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Re: Why Upgrade Windows SPs?
« Reply #16 on: November 15, 2008, 12:19:17 AM »
It says the same thing I posted up a few posts ago: Intel Pentium 4, 2.4 GHz.  Is there something else I'm missing?

No, for some reason, I managed to let that completely escape me. Ooooops! ;D

You won't need the patch for SP3. :) However, because of the problems you've had with removing Norton and the trojan you've mentioned in your last post, I can't in any way guarantee your success with any SP (there was a day when that meant "Southern Pacific" to me ;D :P) upgrade. It might work better or it might actually be worse, I don't know. :-\

Others might disagree with me but I think you might do better with the SP's if you backed up your files and installed a fresh copy of XP. :)

Best Regards...

Offline bob3160

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Re: Why Upgrade Windows SPs?
« Reply #17 on: November 15, 2008, 03:29:53 AM »
I would try a system file repair.

SFC /SCANNOW
Use Run and then paste the above command on the run line and hit enter. Make sure the WinXP disk is in the
CD Rom Drive. This will check the system files against the original install and make sure none are missing or have been corrupted.
You will need to run Windows Update after this is completed.

Hope that'll help.  :)
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Offline YoKenny

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Re: Why Upgrade Windows SPs?
« Reply #18 on: November 16, 2008, 01:16:39 AM »
It says the same thing I posted up a few posts ago: Intel Pentium 4, 2.4 GHz.  Is there something else I'm missing?

No, for some reason, I managed to let that completely escape me. Ooooops! ;D

You won't need the patch for SP3. :) However, because of the problems you've had with removing Norton and the trojan you've mentioned in your last post, I can't in any way guarantee your success with any SP (there was a day when that meant "Southern Pacific" to me ;D :P) upgrade. It might work better or it might actually be worse, I don't know. :-\

Others might disagree with me but I think you might do better with the SP's if you backed up your files and installed a fresh copy of XP. :)

Best Regards...
I do not disagree as the latest infections even have become so malicious that even a full FORMAT can not remove them as they infect the Master Boot Record ( MBR ) and the only way to remove them is to delete the infected partition then add it back with FDISK:
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/255867
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Offline PamJ

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Re: Why Upgrade Windows SPs?
« Reply #19 on: November 16, 2008, 01:52:11 AM »
I would try a system file repair.

SFC /SCANNOW
Use Run and then paste the above command on the run line and hit enter. Make sure the WinXP disk is in the
CD Rom Drive. This will check the system files against the original install and make sure none are missing or have been corrupted.
You will need to run Windows Update after this is completed.

Hope that'll help.  :)


I've love to try this.  So, this will compare the Windows files on my computer against the Windows OS disk that came with the computer.  Does it automatically make corrections, or ask me if I want to make corrections, or does it just alert me if there are issues?

And Windows Update, there's another problem with that that I completely forgot about until I started messing with something today, and is another reason I haven't updated--It defaults to go though IE, and IE is one of things that's messed up. It even says on Microsoft's website that you have to have a certain version of IE.  (Which is why I switched to FireFox, which I actually like better.)  Can I safely try to update IE from Firefox?  I mean, if you never had IE and wanted to get it, you'd have to be using another browser to download it.

If the suggested of checking the OS disk against my computer actually corrects things, it may fix IE and then the whole IE issue would be moot anyway.

Thanks!
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Offline ardvark

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Re: Why Upgrade Windows SPs?
« Reply #20 on: November 16, 2008, 02:05:04 AM »
If the suggested of checking the OS disk against my computer actually corrects things, it may fix IE and then the whole IE issue would be moot anyway.

Hi Pam...

You can give it a try but I can't guarantee that it will resolve any or all of your problems (due to the malware infections and possible Norton leftovers) and I'm not sure how well the SP upgrades will go because of it. :-\

Best Regards...

Offline PamJ

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Re: Why Upgrade Windows SPs?
« Reply #21 on: November 16, 2008, 02:06:45 AM »
It says the same thing I posted up a few posts ago: Intel Pentium 4, 2.4 GHz.  Is there something else I'm missing?

No, for some reason, I managed to let that completely escape me. Ooooops! ;D

You won't need the patch for SP3. :) However, because of the problems you've had with removing Norton and the trojan you've mentioned in your last post, I can't in any way guarantee your success with any SP (there was a day when that meant "Southern Pacific" to me ;D :P) upgrade. It might work better or it might actually be worse, I don't know. :-\

Others might disagree with me but I think you might do better with the SP's if you backed up your files and installed a fresh copy of XP. :)

Best Regards...

This process scares me, as I don't have a drivers CD from Dell for my computer, and I can't get one (so they tell me).  They told me where I could download them from, though, and pointed out the four that were the most important. And I think I remember a few years ago trying to make a recovery CD through Norton (an earlier version that worked right), and I couldn't do it because of a partition or something Is there a way to find out about a partition?

I've been spending the day making sure I have everything I need as far as software goes, etc., in case I decided to do this.  But I'm confused on the driver issue---which ones I need other than the four she e-mailed me.

Thanks, ardvark!
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Offline ardvark

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Re: Why Upgrade Windows SPs?
« Reply #22 on: November 16, 2008, 02:45:45 AM »
Hi...

Does your system have a restore partition by any chance? My concern here, as YoKenny has mentiones, is if the malware has infected the Master boot Record (MBR) you will need to wipe the active partition (not the restore partition) and create a new one. Otherwise, a reinstall will do no good. I've learned the hard way on this a few years ago. ;)

Take a look at this page...

http://support.dell.com/support/downloads/driverslist.aspx?c=us&l=en&s=gen&ServiceTag=&SystemID=PLX_PNT_P4_GX260&os=WW1&osl=en&catid=&impid=

Do you see all of the drivers you will need?

Best Regards...
« Last Edit: November 16, 2008, 02:52:48 AM by ardvark »

Offline PamJ

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Re: Why Upgrade Windows SPs?
« Reply #23 on: November 16, 2008, 05:30:24 AM »
ardvark, I must say I'm embarrassed, but I know little about what kind of drivers I need. It appears I'm supposed to pick from that list (which is also the link Dell provided). They provided four driver links in that email that she said were the most important.

Just now, I received another email from Dell.  I must say, considering I don't have a warranty left on this, or paying for the help, they've been very quick to answer my questions!

I had asked if I could just copy the files in my "drivers" folder to a CD/flashdrive, and mentioned I thought it was partitioned.  This was her answer:

"To answer your question, Yes, copying the drivers folder to a CD or a flashdrive will work. Once you have reinstalled the operating system, you can use the files youi copied to reinstall the drivers.
 
Dell computers are partitioned, the partitioned space is for the PC Restore. To access PC Restore, please visit the website  http://tinyurl.com/yph34j."


Appears they use Dell PC Restore by Symantec. 

Is there more than one "drivers" folder?

When you say "wipe" and create a new one.  Do you mean reformat the active drive?  Does this PC Restore do that?

How does all this sound to you?

Thank you!
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Offline alanrf

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Re: Why Upgrade Windows SPs?
« Reply #24 on: November 16, 2008, 05:58:49 AM »
Dell Pc's (at least all the home user ones I have bought in the last ten years) come with a partition on the primary hard drive that contains an image of the system as it was delivered with the system.  This image can be used to restore the system to the state it was in the day it was delivered.  I cannot recall ever seeing that that the Dell restore function had anything to do with Symantec (and would have recoiled at the thought) but I may just have missed it.

Typically the Dell computers (as the one from which I responding) are delivered with a folder on the C:/ drive called C:/drivers.

I would think your best option would be to restore the system using the Dell installation partition and recovery facility.  I cannot guarantee it but I am pretty sure that Dell would ensure that you end up with a clean MBR as well as returning to the system partition as it was on delivery. Yes, all your drivers will be back to the delivery date but it is a whole lot better than having to start with your drivers completely from scratch.      
« Last Edit: November 16, 2008, 07:52:19 AM by alanrf »

Offline PamJ

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Re: Why Upgrade Windows SPs?
« Reply #25 on: November 16, 2008, 07:25:41 AM »
I cannot recall ever seeing that that the Dell restore function had anything to do with Symantec (and would have recoiled at the thought) but I may just have missed it.

Yes, I had that same sick feeling in the pit of my stomach when I saw this at one of the links they provided me:

"Dell™ PC Restore by Symantec (for Microsoft Windows XP) and Dell Factory Image Restore (for Microsoft Windows Vista) restore your computer software to the original state in which it was shipped to you from Dell."

I used Symantec products years ago and have to say I liked them. But, I've learned a lot since then, and had too much trouble when I started upgrading to newer versions, and I won't go near them now.

Thanks for your information, alanfr!
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Offline ardvark

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Re: Why Upgrade Windows SPs?
« Reply #26 on: November 16, 2008, 11:22:02 AM »
Hi Pam...

No need to be embarrased, it takes time to learn all of this. There is a lot to know. :)

No, it doesn't appear from the link you provided that the restore program actually wipes and recreates the partition. This you would have to do manually, and to be honest and up front, it can be quite technical for those who don't have experience using DOS command line utilities like FDISK! You absolutely need to know what you're doing! Under the first "Additional info" tab (in the Dell support page) offers this link with futher information how to use FDISK...

http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;255867

Also beneficial is typing in the command "fdisk /mbr" after wiping the partition but before creating a new one. You would also need to legally (I don't know if fdisk can be freely distributed or not) find a copy of fdisk that will support drives over 64 GB's to use and burn the .exe and any associated files as well as a boot loading program on to a CD if your system doesn't have a floppy drive. If it does, you can simply copy these files to a floppy disk. Also, imperative here is that you do not touch the restore partition while performing this task, otherwise you will need to purchase a new retail (not OEM) copy of Windows XP, still pretty expensive, unfortunately. :( Again, if your Master Boot Record is infected, it will do no good to simply reformat. :(

However, this program may render all of the above unnecessary, if any virus removal it may perform doesn't corrupt or destroy the MBR. Use at your own risk...

http://www.softpedia.com/get/Antivirus/Avira-Boot-Sector-Repair-Tool.shtml

Unzip the archive to your desktop. You may need to burn the contents to a blank CD. See the help file that's included for more information. I couldn't get anything to work, including the help file, because I'm using x64 Vista.  If the tool doesn't find anything, you're hopefully (AV's aren't foolproof) good to go! :) You can just simply restore the system. If you need more help this, post back and i will try to help.

From what the link also said, the drivers for your system are included in with the reinstall for the devices originally present when you first bought the system or its manufacture date, as Alan mentioned. For any devices that you have installed since then, you will need to dig up the driver CD's for them or find the drivers online. ;)

However, copying the driver folder(s) from your current copy of XP doesn't get mean they will be installed, ready to go when you place the folder(s) in the drivers folder of your new copy. ;) I'm not sure if there is more than one folder. You would need to install the drivers manually or with an installer program. Plus, there is the issue of registry entries and the drivers in question needing and/or placing folders, files and icons in other locations. ;) Doing it manually can also get pretty technical. :-\

My suggestion would be to hold off on formatting until we see if the MBR can be taken care of without having to delete the partition. This would be far easier! :)

Best Regards...
« Last Edit: November 17, 2008, 02:02:43 AM by ardvark »

Offline Sawduster

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Re: Why Upgrade Windows SPs?
« Reply #27 on: November 16, 2008, 02:29:52 PM »
You seem to have a bunch of things going on, and they may or may not be related, but many are addressed in http://support.microsoft.com/kb/831430/en-us :
Briefly,
When you try to view any one of the following dialog boxes, the dialog box may appear to be empty or partly empty:
• Search Companion
• User Accounts
• Windows Update
• Help and Support
• System Restore 
• When you try to start Microsoft Windows Media Player, you may receive an "An internal application error has occurred" (or a similar) error message.
• Internet Explorer may not be able to print. When you click File, and then click Print, the Print dialog box does not appear. The print preview is blank.


Check out the rest of the article and see how many cures it provides.

Norton fragments - I had the same problem a few years ago. Google "symantec.com removal tool".  On my search it is was at at the top.  Set a restore point then run the utility.  It helps.  Reboot.  Then do a <Windows Key> < F> (Find) Norton to see what's left.  Delete the major folders, and reboot occasionally.  When satisfied, run Disk Cleanup.  If you had a Norton Suite, do the same or for obvious program names there may be.  Watch out for folder / program names that may be the same as other, desired stuff.  Also, Norton is auto-billed annually.  Even if you've cancelled, you may continue to be billed.  Check it.  Been there.  'Nuf sed.

Service packs / security packs-  I was cautious when SP2 came out, waited a couple of weeks, saw that nobody was actually claiming problems except the usual MS slammers, and ran it.  Worked fine.  Use the updates - that's why the product is supported.

System file repair - ran it a long time ago (W3.1?).  Great idea - but what if the system has been updated or modified from the way it was shipped?  After a few dozen prompts with something like "the file in use is a newer version... do you want to replace it?", I stopped and haven't used it since.  Your call.

 
« Last Edit: November 16, 2008, 02:41:30 PM by Sawduster »
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Offline bob3160

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Re: Why Upgrade Windows SPs?
« Reply #28 on: November 16, 2008, 03:46:07 PM »
Quote
I know little about what kind of drivers I need
Here is something else that may help you in your quest to restore your drivers:
Universal Driver CD
"This CD, (Iso format about 600 mb) contains software drivers for over 25,000 hardware components from brands such as
Dell, HP, Compaq, IBM, Sony, Toshiba, Panasonic, as well as hardware component manufacturers Intel, 3Com, VIA, nVidia, ATI, SoundMax,
and many more."
http://mysharedfiles.no-ip.org/UniversalDriverCD.html

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Offline PamJ

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Re: Why Upgrade Windows SPs?
« Reply #29 on: November 16, 2008, 10:00:23 PM »
In one of Dell's emails, they sent me the link for each of four drivers they felt were most important (audio, chipset, modem, video), and then the link for the whole list, drivers and downloads. The link (below) also shows my service tag, which to me would mean I need ALL of the ones listed.  Is that correct? Or am I supposed to pick which ones---and if I need to pick which ones, how do I know which ones? Bottom line, I guess: Are these supposed to be everything that came on my computer originally?

http://tinyurl.com/5cgrjk

sawduster, thanks so much for that link.  Everything listed is what I'm experiencing, but when I checked it under Method 1, it succeeded, so it appears there's no problem with the jscript.  I mean every single one of those symptoms they listed is exactly what I'm experiencing.  I understand about replacing newer stuff with older stuff, but since I haven't updated much of anything, I don't know if I'll see that a lot.  And I could always update everything again.

I use this computer for my job (self-employed), and have lived with it this way for a year with no other problems surfacing with software, and we have several other computers being used in the house, plus a new one my husband bought a month ago that he hasn't even hooked up  yet (although that's Vista and nothing else we have is). I have the Dell OS disk and a OEM Windows XP I bought (still unopened) because I don't care to move to Vista until I have no choice. I don't care for it, plus I don't want to cause any issues with my clients exchanging documents back and forth, and none of them use Vista Office or OS, or plan to in the near future.  (My son's  Dell laptop he purchased through college had Vista, he couldn't stand it, and bought an OEM XP.  I bought one for myself at the same time.) 

Ardvark, thanks for making me feel better for asking such elementary computer questions!  Some of this sounds like things I'm not quite ready to try yet, with the fdisk and such, especially when I've lived with it like this for over a year.  (I was a holdout when Windows first came out---loved DOS, but have forgotten pretty much everything over the years!) My son has formated the hard drive on his desktop several times before (no partition, no viruses, and had all everything he needed to do it!), but I might see if I can get him to help me with it over Christmas break.  If it just a "personal" computer, and not one used for my business, I'd be more willing to jump in with both feet on some of these more technical things!  Oh, ardvark, why an original and not OEM?  When my son replaced Vista on his Dell laptop with XP OEM, it's worked fine. Just another one of my "clueless" questions.  ;)

You know, I think I just need to buy a new computer to have waiting in the wings if this one explodes!!!   ;D ;)

 ;D

« Last Edit: November 16, 2008, 10:06:36 PM by PamJ »
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