Author Topic: Windows7 inherits one of Windows'flaws...  (Read 7645 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline polonus

  • Avast Überevangelist
  • Probably Bot
  • *****
  • Posts: 33897
  • malware fighter
Windows7 inherits one of Windows'flaws...
« on: October 23, 2009, 11:26:25 PM »
Hi malware fighters,

Windows 7 will become slow: Because of it's crappy nature the user must act to overcome these flaws.

Windows 7 is to a certain extent badly organized . Just like all its predecessors it inherited a lot of configuration- and management technologies of older Windows platforms, that are known not to cooperate flawlessly and so leave remainders in the Operational System. You could compare it to protesting youngsters that won't put the milk back in the fridge or don't crumb clean after two packs of cream crackers after a work-out

But extreme evil is being wrought by the Windows registry. This has given more head-aches than any other aspect of the Windows platforms. Empty keys, conflicting and outdated values, file fragmentation - are just a number of issues that will upset IT-staff regularly. The situation is bad enough that even MS will forget about accessing the registry (well not in Window7 it didn't), but a lot of newer projects use a simple XML-configuration in stead of the complex configuration of tons of register keys and -values.

Nobody can live with someone that will not cleanse up after making a mess. So you are there to crap clean Windows 7. System cleansing tools like CrapCleaner or ClearProg and ATF Cleaner will help you towards that goal. Also keep a good policy of what you install and de-install (a big source of crap are old software installation and uninstalls - use Secunia PSI to automatically run this process and keep every third party software installs up to date and bug-free. And in case it won't work like it should, make your back-ups regularly, and/or use the mother of all problem-solvers - a clean install and Windows7 will again smell anew,

polonus
Cybersecurity is more of an attitude than anything else. Avast Evangelists.

Use NoScript, a limited user account and a virtual machine and be safe(r)!

Offline Omid Farhang

  • Frontend Developer
  • Avast Evangelist
  • Super Poster
  • ***
  • Posts: 1660
  • I wish I could write longer personal text!!
    • Homepage
Re: Windows7 inherits one of Windows'flaws...
« Reply #1 on: October 23, 2009, 11:34:16 PM »
so is not it normal if people think of buy a Mac instead Windows?
Twitter: OmidFarhangEn - OS: Manjaro KDE

Offline polonus

  • Avast Überevangelist
  • Probably Bot
  • *****
  • Posts: 33897
  • malware fighter
Re: Windows7 inherits one of Windows'flaws...
« Reply #2 on: October 23, 2009, 11:54:16 PM »
Hi Omid Farhang,

I tried to give this as neutral as could be, and a lot can be done to make these flaws less striking.
Because of your comment I will just mention these points.
I will recall the main 7 flaws - Windows will produce thoughts like your comment - Windows 7 will eat a lot of hardware - it will cost you again and again (firmware and for those those that decided to skip Vista alltogether, where is that XP upgrade) - some zelots think that Windows7 is a resurrect of Windows 95, and they can help a lot to have it generally accepted,the above after a topic by Randall C. Kennedy for ComputerWorld....

polonus
Cybersecurity is more of an attitude than anything else. Avast Evangelists.

Use NoScript, a limited user account and a virtual machine and be safe(r)!

Sesame

  • Guest
Re: Windows7 inherits one of Windows'flaws...
« Reply #3 on: October 23, 2009, 11:57:00 PM »
so is not it normal if people think of buy a Mac instead Windows?
Of course, Apple seem to want us to think so.  However, from either side, it's just marketing.  Sometimes, it's scary to see how manipulative marketing is.

Offline polonus

  • Avast Überevangelist
  • Probably Bot
  • *****
  • Posts: 33897
  • malware fighter
Re: Windows7 inherits one of Windows'flaws...
« Reply #4 on: October 24, 2009, 12:01:17 AM »
Hi Rumpel,

You are right, and that is your big point for us not to feel misled by this. That is why I say if you have XP SP3 with a normal user account - why would you need the additional security Window7 will bring by default now? Features sold as benefits that is the main trick here. Thank you for presenting this view here,

pol
Cybersecurity is more of an attitude than anything else. Avast Evangelists.

Use NoScript, a limited user account and a virtual machine and be safe(r)!

Sesame

  • Guest
Re: Windows7 inherits one of Windows'flaws...
« Reply #5 on: October 24, 2009, 12:11:38 AM »
Hi, polonus.

I wonder if I can be thanked from the others as well.  I guess I'd better go now.  ;D  Jokes aside, I feel uneasy to see so many people around me suddenly began to show interest in Windows 7 not depending on their knowledge on computers.

Offline Omid Farhang

  • Frontend Developer
  • Avast Evangelist
  • Super Poster
  • ***
  • Posts: 1660
  • I wish I could write longer personal text!!
    • Homepage
Re: Windows7 inherits one of Windows'flaws...
« Reply #6 on: October 24, 2009, 12:41:24 AM »
thanks polonus for the response.

sadly, I don't like Windows 7 yet! "Windows Registry" is one of the things a very long ago I wrote about that in one of my blogs, I don't like the way Microsoft Developer are working, they have write an OS which is too weak and easy to disturb.

Microsoft could write an OS which has not a weak point like widows registry or some very essential components which by touching them windows crash or being useless...

even "Sandbox" idea which is being popular now is what Microsoft should use very long ago to let programs install in a safe place, a place different than windows core, not all system files and windows applications together.

I want some of my idea in question style:

* why Microsoft did not work on a system which let(force) programs install all their files only in "One" directory?
by doing these, it was more easy to create setup for applications and both expert and newbie users could install/install programs more easy and newbie mistakes (for example "delete" install directory from program files instead uninstall it) would not harm windows that much like now.

* why Microsoft did not isolate or remove "Windows Registry" from windows by replace some new features more immunized againest poor setup or malware etc.?
Microsoft Could change Windows registry to do it impossible to touch by setup files or Malware etc. and add some new feature, for example a place to set files acc. for programs. even in current registry there are more than 3 places which need to setup for a program acc. for a file format... it show how poor-managed is windows features...
I got a backup from windows registry (whole), it was 90 MB, after upgarde windows to SP2 and install nero it was 200MB... WTF? what does Microsoft think about this?

* Why Microsoft did not work over "Windows Services" better?
every windows when boot-up, a lot of services run, ok, every OS need them, but why this much funny?
There are many computers which are not connected to a network, even they have not a network hardware, but in all of them there are (at least) 4 service running for network (at least in vista it does). why Microsoft did not work more smart about this when does service could became Manual and start running when Network drive notify them? same about many more services which half of service are not "essential" and can run/stop when we need them.

* why Microsoft windows come with many useless pre-installed components and has not many features which almost every one need?
take a look at system32 folder, there are so many components which almost everyone has not used them, but when we install windows it would take from 2 Hours to 48 Hours to setup programs we need to configure our installed OS in the way we need it.

* why Microsoft did not make it more easy to find "trusted Programs" for Microsoft windows?
in ubuntu you can easily find programs you need and install or uninstall them with only 2 clicks, it would download and install programs itself easy! but for windows you need to search yourself and take all the risks (such as getting infected, scams, phishing etc...) and maybe one they you would find what you were looking for...

* why Windows need this much maintenance?!
why windows core is not untouchable to works forever like first day? like a mobile OS or Computer BIOS etc? why windows don't install an untouchable core and run everything in an environment like Sandbox (something like that) to don't be able to hurt?!

and many things more...

now what do you think about my perspective?
« Last Edit: October 24, 2009, 12:43:08 AM by Omid Farhang »
Twitter: OmidFarhangEn - OS: Manjaro KDE

Hard_ROCKER

  • Guest
Re: Windows7 inherits one of Windows'flaws...
« Reply #7 on: October 24, 2009, 12:46:27 AM »
Hi malware fighters,

Windows 7 will become slow: Because of it's crappy nature the user must act to overcome these flaws.

Windows 7 is to a certain extent badly organized . Just like all its predecessors it inherited a lot of configuration- and management technologies of older Windows platforms, that are known not to cooperate flawlessly and so leave remainders in the Operational System. You could compare it to protesting youngsters that won't put the milk back in the fridge or don't crumb clean after two packs of cream crackers after a work-out

But extreme evil is being wrought by the Windows registry. This has given more head-aches than any other aspect of the Windows platforms. Empty keys, conflicting and outdated values, file fragmentation - are just a number of issues that will upset IT-staff regularly. The situation is bad enough that even MS will forget about accessing the registry (well not in Window7 it didn't), but a lot of newer projects use a simple XML-configuration in stead of the complex configuration of tons of register keys and -values.

Nobody can live with someone that will not cleanse up after making a mess. So you are there to crap clean Windows 7. System cleansing tools like CrapCleaner or ClearProg and ATF Cleaner will help you towards that goal. Also keep a good policy of what you install and de-install (a big source of crap are old software installation and uninstalls - use Secunia PSI to automatically run this process and keep every third party software installs up to date and bug-free. And in case it won't work like it should, make your back-ups regularly, and/or use the mother of all problem-solvers - a clean install and Windows7 will again smell anew,

polonus

This may have been true in the past with older win versions but Vista/7 are a different story.
Damian, speaking from my own experience with a few months of win 7 testing under my belt, 7 is FAR SUPERIOR to any other windows version i have used in the past. And i used everything from win 3.1 onwards. For me 7 is the best OS i have ever used, period. No mac, no linux distro can come close that's how good i think it is. And another thing, can anybody actually prove that having a larger registry actually slows anything down ? Don't think so, another bs myth. File fragmentation ? Aware that in Vista/7 the defragmenter is already scheduled to be run on a weekly basis ? Also aware that the registry in Vista and 7 runs in virtualized mode ?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_Registry#Registry_virtualization

Taking care of Vista/7 health is a much much simpler task than taking care of win xp...

Offline Omid Farhang

  • Frontend Developer
  • Avast Evangelist
  • Super Poster
  • ***
  • Posts: 1660
  • I wish I could write longer personal text!!
    • Homepage
Re: Windows7 inherits one of Windows'flaws...
« Reply #8 on: October 24, 2009, 12:57:10 AM »
This may have been true in the past with older win versions but Vista/7 are a different story.
Damian, speaking from my own experience with a few months of win 7 testing under my belt, 7 is FAR SUPERIOR to any other windows version i have used in the past. And i used everything from win 3.1 onwards. For me 7 is the best OS i have ever used, period. No mac, no linux distro can come close that's how good i think it is. And another thing, can anybody actually prove that having a larger registry actually slows anything down ? Don't think so, another bs myth. File fragmentation ? Aware that in Vista/7 the defragmenter is already scheduled to be run on a weekly basis ? Also aware that the registry in Vista and 7 runs in virtualized mode ?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_Registry#Registry_virtualization

Taking care of Vista/7 health is a much much simpler task than taking care of win xp...

please don't see me as a negative person and I respect your experience. but there are something I would like to talk about if it's not off-topic.

-what does 7 has which we can call is "Best" or in your word "FAR SUPERIOR"?
-do you really think "Registry virtualization" is a soloution for windows weakness? yet by touching 2-3 registry keys windows can die, yet registry is best place for malwares...
-how good is scheduled defragmention? is it smart enough to don't defrag when you are hard-working? is it smart enough to defrag when your computer and hard disk/cpu/ram idle? is it able to defrag when your hard is almost full?
Twitter: OmidFarhangEn - OS: Manjaro KDE

YoKenny

  • Guest
Re: Windows7 inherits one of Windows'flaws...
« Reply #9 on: October 24, 2009, 01:16:03 AM »
Quote
The pros and cons of switching to Windows 7

By Woody Leonhard

If you're still sitting on the fence about upgrading to Windows 7 — after all, it's been widely available for all of a few hours now — I'd like to regale you with my top eight reasons to jump in with both feet.

I'll also tell you three possible reasons for keeping the new OS on the shelf — for a while, at least.
http://windowssecrets.com/2009/10/22/01-The-pros-and-cons-of-switching-to-Windows-7

@ polonus

Are you in the 3. If your PC isn't up to snuff, fuhgeddaboutit! category?

Windows 7 Upgrade Advisor
http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?displaylang=en&FamilyID=1b544e90-7659-4bd9-9e51-2497c146af15

My XP Pro system is in that category so I saved up until I could afford a Vista capable system last March and installed Windows 7 Evaluation copy. Build 7100 as soon as it became available and never regretted it.

Those that live by the gun will die by the gun.

Hard_ROCKER

  • Guest
Re: Windows7 inherits one of Windows'flaws...
« Reply #10 on: October 24, 2009, 01:25:50 AM »
Quote
please don't see me as a negative person and I respect your experience. but there are something I would like to talk about if it's not off-topic.

No problem, you are what i would call an intellectually curious person and that's ok in my book ! ;)

Quote
-what does 7 has which we can call is "Best" or in your word "FAR SUPERIOR"?

Good UI, nice in-built tools(i use media center alot and i love it, the in-built backup tool is great aswell, just to name 2 examples), stability(not a single bsod or any other problem over here) and most important for me personally is THE SPEED. Boot up is fast my friend, when i first installed it i couldn't believe my eyes, i kept rebooting for over an hour with a big smile on my face.  ;D It's not just that, it's the whole snappines of the system, file copying etc. Honestly you don't need to run any benchmarks to feel the difference compared to Vista.

Quote
-do you really think "Registry virtualization" is a soloution for windows weakness? yet by touching 2-3 registry keys windows can die, yet registry is best place for malwares...

Not a complete solution but a step in the right direction and it does improve the situation for sure. Have not had a single problem with the registry with Vista/7 and yes i never clean it and i install ALOT of programs(i like testing new stuff). Was not the case when i used xp or previous win versions.

Quote
-how good is scheduled defragmention? is it smart enough to don't defrag when you are hard-working? is it smart enough to defrag when your computer and hard disk/cpu/ram idle? is it able to defrag when your hard is almost full?

Actually it only defrags when the pc is idle.  ;) As for the last question i'm not really sure buddy. If i remember correctly the limit in xp was 15 percent. For 7 i have no idea but considering how much it has improved over the one in Vista and xp i wouldn't be surprised if that was lower. But i really don't know, we will have to google that one. I use PerfectDisk and i do my defragging with that. It has been a good companion to me for a few yrs now so i don't really use windows defrag(only on other pc's).

I do have a nice blog from ms in my bookmarks, maybe there's more info in there but it's 1:20 am over here and i just got back from work so i am a bit tired and don't have the time/will to read it now or google around for more info. Tomorrow.  :) Here's the link to that blog if you are interested.

http://blogs.msdn.com/e7/archive/2009/01/25/disk-defragmentation-background-and-engineering-the-windows-7-improvements.aspx

EDIT: Typo's ...
« Last Edit: October 24, 2009, 01:29:02 AM by darth_mikey »

Offline Omid Farhang

  • Frontend Developer
  • Avast Evangelist
  • Super Poster
  • ***
  • Posts: 1660
  • I wish I could write longer personal text!!
    • Homepage
Re: Windows7 inherits one of Windows'flaws...
« Reply #11 on: October 24, 2009, 01:33:42 AM »
@darth_mikey: Thanks for reply :)
Twitter: OmidFarhangEn - OS: Manjaro KDE

YoKenny

  • Guest
Re: Windows7 inherits one of Windows'flaws...
« Reply #12 on: October 24, 2009, 01:34:19 AM »

-how good is scheduled defragmention?
Read these:
http://www.downloadsquad.com/2009/01/26/how-windows-7-handles-disk-defragmenting
Disk Defragmentation – Background and Engineering the Windows 7 Improvements
http://blogs.msdn.com/e7/archive/2009/01/25/disk-defragmentation-background-and-engineering-the-windows-7-improvements.aspx

Quote
is it smart enough to don't defrag when you are hard-working?
Yes

Quote
is it smart enough to defrag when your computer and hard disk/cpu/ram idle?

Yes.

Quote
is it able to defrag when your hard is almost full?

With the cost of hard drives so cheap these days why worry about this.

Quote
“Best practices for using defragmentation in Windows 7 are simple – you do not need to do anything! Defragmentation is scheduled to automatically run periodically and in the background with minimal impact to foreground activity. This ensures that data on your hard disk drives is efficiently placed, so the system can provide optimal responsiveness,” Nagar and Garson concluded.
http://news.softpedia.com/news/Windows-7-Defragmentation-Engine-the-Evolution-102941.shtml

Hard_ROCKER

  • Guest
Re: Windows7 inherits one of Windows'flaws...
« Reply #13 on: October 24, 2009, 01:38:53 AM »
No problem Omid ! :)

Offline Omid Farhang

  • Frontend Developer
  • Avast Evangelist
  • Super Poster
  • ***
  • Posts: 1660
  • I wish I could write longer personal text!!
    • Homepage
Re: Windows7 inherits one of Windows'flaws...
« Reply #14 on: October 24, 2009, 02:02:12 AM »
@YoKenny: thanks, so it seems a few better!
Twitter: OmidFarhangEn - OS: Manjaro KDE