Author Topic: Avast Programm Update possible with restricted User Accounts?  (Read 8335 times)

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Offline unfuture

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Avast Programm Update possible with restricted User Accounts?
« on: September 27, 2004, 11:21:00 PM »
Hi all,

i'm using avast home edition for a short time now, it's a great programm.
Now i'm thinking about making Windows XP Professional more secure and
so i'm planning to create special user accounts for surfing: only restricted
users are allowed to access the internet, adminitrators have no possibility
to access the internet.

My question: Is it possible for avast to make a programm-update with a
restricted useraccount(=no installation rights)?

Unfortunately i could not test it on my own, because my version
of avast is not old enough for a programm-update and so the
only thing i know is, that virus definition updates are working
fine with restricted user accounts.

Thanks in advance,

Unfuture.

Offline Eddy

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Re:Avast Programm Update possible with restricted User Accounts?
« Reply #1 on: September 27, 2004, 11:29:42 PM »
Welcome to this board.

Quote
only restricted users are allowed to access the internet, adminitrators have no possibility to access the internet.
So a "simple" user can access, but a admin not. That doesn't make sense. How could a admin do his job then?

I already imagin a problem.
- User: "Admin can you help me?"
- Admin: "only if you login for me, cause I don't have enough user rights to do it." ;D

For good suggestions on how to secure XP have a look HERE
« Last Edit: September 27, 2004, 11:35:52 PM by Eddy »

Offline unfuture

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Re:Avast Programm Update possible with restricted User Accounts?
« Reply #2 on: September 28, 2004, 12:18:28 AM »
hmmm...sorry, the link doesn't help me...i dismiss someone who tells me that
installing zone alarm makes my machine secure. But i don't want to start a
debate on principles because we can talk weeks about the sense of personal
firewalls instead of closing the service ports and so on...i have my opinion and
you have yours. If you can help me with my simple question i would be greatful
for your information.  8)

Greetings,

Unfuture.

Offline inthewildteam

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Re:Avast Programm Update possible with restricted User Accounts?
« Reply #3 on: September 28, 2004, 01:38:58 AM »
unfuture, do mean something like Sun Microsystems "thin client" idea where the pc has no global settings?  I mean you want no user or programme to have admin rights to change or alter the pc's settings.

That solution (by Sun) died a death some time ago.

I think you'll find that Eddy's reply is quite correct under a windo$e system at least 1 user has to have admin rights, that's what makes it such a viable platform for malware as most home users run their machine as admin instead of restricted user.  I'm referring to nt based here as 95/98/M.E. force the machine into "admin" mode without a choice
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Offline unfuture

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Re:Avast Programm Update possible with restricted User Accounts?
« Reply #4 on: September 28, 2004, 09:13:36 AM »
No, i don't think that Eddy is quite right. I think that it is quite
irresponsible to surf with full admin rights on a machine, wich
components have so many exploits. I diddn't wrote that no one
should have admin rights, of course i know that an admin
is necessary to configure the machine in some cases. But in
95 % of the time you use the computer an admin account
is not mandatory. Please tell me a simple reason why i should
surf into the internet with admin rights? Windows update
can act without admin rights automatically and if i need to
install a programm from the internet i can log on with a
restricted user account, download the file, change to the
admin account and install the file. The only reason for this
behavior is comfort, of course i can also download the file
from the admin account, but in all likelihood i would surf
uncareful with the admin account after some time.
Of course an admin can "build" it's own way into the internet
every time because he has all rights on the machine, so the
example from eddi is unreproducible. I would answer the user
"just a moment, dude, please tell me first what exactly you
want to do in the internet and if it's no security risc, i will
go online and help you..."

But please belive me at least this: It serves no purpose to
discuss this theme, i allready mentioned it in my post to
eddi. It's a debate on principles and in my judgement it
does not help me or you. Neither i would surf with admin
rights nor you would use restricted user accounts for
surfing from today. ;D

Greetings,

Unfuture.


S.Z.Craftec

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Re:Avast Programm Update possible with restricted User Accounts?
« Reply #5 on: September 28, 2004, 01:32:54 PM »
Account with administrator rights is less secure on the internet ?

Simply - nonsense !!! I've never heard such a thing in my whole life...

Eddy just tried to help you, and jumping all over him just because of that...

Downloading file from the internet logged as user with limited account, and then  log out and log back in as user with administrator rights... I don't know about that. Who would do that every single time when he browse internet ?!!

Btw, this is not flaming, it's just my point of view. If you are looking for a flame, please can we leave it for some other forum... 'cause these forums are wrong place for that... you'll see after your reply.

I guess you're just being a little paranoid, that's all.

Have a nice day !
« Last Edit: September 29, 2004, 04:30:33 AM by Craftec »

Offline Vlk

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Re:Avast Programm Update possible with restricted User Accounts?
« Reply #6 on: September 28, 2004, 01:41:39 PM »
unfuture, avast program update works even with non-admin rights. That's what the "avast iAVS4 Control Service" is for, in fact.

Craftec, actually I wouldn't totally agree on this. Unfuture certainly has a point. Working under a non-admin account is a very good security practice in any case. If the system is set up carefully, the possibility of a screw-up (or even a virus attack) is mitigated when using non-admin accounts.

Cheers
Vlk
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S.Z.Craftec

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Re:Avast Programm Update possible with restricted User Accounts?
« Reply #7 on: September 28, 2004, 01:44:23 PM »
C'mon Vlk... all those software firewalls, hardware ones, properly configured and you still are affraid someone will bother to break into your computer and "steal" or messup some data ? I wouldn't go that far... if anyone wants to break into some computer, they would choose big companies with some important data for them, not a single user home station with nothing inside...

OK, even if someone is that paranoid, you think that logging in and out 50 times a day is a good idea ? I don't think so... well, that's just my opinion...
« Last Edit: September 28, 2004, 01:48:43 PM by Craftec »

Offline unfuture

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Re:Avast Programm Update possible with restricted User Accounts?
« Reply #8 on: September 28, 2004, 02:07:55 PM »
Hi Vlk,

thank you very much, thats exactly the information i needed.

@Craftec, my apreciated psychiatrist :D

If you really have to install 50 Programms a day, then you should consider
about first making a "download session" and after downloading the whole
software you should install the soft also in one session.

Greetings,

Unfuture.

S.Z.Craftec

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Re:Avast Programm Update possible with restricted User Accounts?
« Reply #9 on: September 28, 2004, 02:15:27 PM »
Yeah, I don't like to be psychiatrist... don't even like that word... too difficult to pronounce  ;D

50 programs a day - that was just an expression, but still. It would be great idea to have download session if someone do that. I don't download much stuff, but sometimes when I have to download something, that goes directly through my avast!... everything is checked as soon as it's downloaded. Anyway, sometimes, it's a good idea to check all files and folders with some freeware online checker like Housecall... there shouldn't be any problems, and no one would have to worry so much about security. The problem is, people like to download everything from all kind of sources, and they don't even bother to scan files after downloading... I mean it takes only few seconds. What can you loose ? But, you can get a lot... I'm not telling that you are one of those people, but many of them are doing like that. And that could be a problem...

Cheers !

Offline Eddy

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Re:Avast Programm Update possible with restricted User Accounts?
« Reply #10 on: September 28, 2004, 02:37:34 PM »
Quote
No, i don't think that Eddy is quite right. I think that it is quite
irresponsible to surf with full admin rights on a machine,
I never said that a normal user should use admin rights to surf the net, only that a admin should have access in case of trouble.

And the site I gave you earlier does have a lot of usefull information on what/how you can restrict users. Perhaps you should read it again.

You also misinterpreted a few things others said here. Seems reading is not what you do best. (no offense) It could be english is not your natural language, better read twice and take your time. Helps preventing misunderstandings like happened here.

Besides the two companies I run, I also am the admin of a cybercafé in my spare time, so I know what you are talking about.

Just some things you may want to consider when setting up the system:

- Password on the (router)/firewall
- Password on Avast
- Seperate folder and diskquota on it for the (restricted)user
- No installation rights
- No downlod rights for certain filetypes
- Only allow the restricted user to use webmail
- Disable access to control panel and other things
- Leave only those things in the start menu that they are allowed to use.

KezzerDrix

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Re:Avast Programm Update possible with restricted User Accounts?
« Reply #11 on: September 28, 2004, 03:23:59 PM »
it appears I missed all the fun  :(

Have to agree with Eddy on this one.  But, to each his own.  As IT people we can make it as simple or as hard as we want to make it.  Shame, though most people want to make it easier.

Kezz

Offline Tipton

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Re:Avast Programm Update possible with restricted User Accounts?
« Reply #12 on: September 29, 2004, 04:16:56 AM »
I have actually read alot, that using a limeted user account for risky surfing is much safer. The reason for that is, by being a limited user you prevent some virus programs from installing themselves because, by definition, limited users do not have full rights. Also, if you encounter a stubborn virus, you can delete the entire user and all of their files without losing your crucial data. With that said, I never use a limeted user account for surfing!

Tipton
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Offline CharleyO

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Re:Avast Programm Update possible with restricted User Accounts?
« Reply #13 on: September 29, 2004, 08:06:55 AM »
*

I have to say I agree with Eddy's last post. If an Admin doesn't have access to the internet, how can he/she do the job properly?    ???  

Of course, I do understand why the Admin account should not generally be used to surf the net. That's what user accounts are for. The Admin can also have a user account for general surfing use ... right?    :)    

I also agree with what KezzerDrix added above.

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Offline kubecj

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Re:Avast Programm Update possible with restricted User Accounts?
« Reply #14 on: September 29, 2004, 11:03:21 AM »
C'mon Vlk... all those software firewalls, hardware ones, properly configured and you still are affraid someone will bother to break into your computer and "steal" or messup some data ? I wouldn't go that far... if anyone wants to break into some computer, they would choose big companies with some important data for them, not a single user home station with nothing inside...

OK, even if someone is that paranoid, you think that logging in and out 50 times a day is a good idea ? I don't think so... well, that's just my opinion...

This is a joke I missed, right?  ???

Running under non-admin account for casual work is one of the best practises one may choose.

Talking about 'who-would-like-the-access-to-my-machine' with the point that the previous speaker is a paranoid is plain dumb nowadays.

Most of the spam and viral attacks are coming from hacked private machines with installed backdoors. The bad guys don't give a **** who you are and what are your data. They want your processing time and internet access. And both of these are offered by unknowing users, even those who believe that with firewall there is no risk.

For more info check The Ultimately Secure Firewall setup here:
http://www.ranum.com/security/computer_security/papers/a1-firewall/
Jindrich Kubec