Author Topic: ** INTRODUCING: NEW BETA VERSION OF AVAST - NOW 6.0.1198 **  (Read 189924 times)

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Jem

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Re: ** INTRODUCING: NEW BETA VERSION OF AVAST - 6.0.1184 **
« Reply #180 on: June 27, 2011, 10:34:41 PM »
I suppose it won't be very surprising if I wouldn't agree :)

First, I don't see why one type of threat should be more important or serious than the other.
Second, with all the polymorphism, scrambling and hiding, PUPs and fake AVs - and the resulting heuristics on the scanners side, we're long past the "proven" threats anyway.
Third, you are right that you cannot protect people from themselves - but that includes the "ordinary" virus scanning as well (now I'm referring to people disabling their AV scanners to get to an infected site, filling complex forms and complaining about false positives that are obviously not, etc.)  So we can at least try, or call it all futile and go do something else.
And fourth, I am not sure what "most" users expect from their AV tool, but I'd say that if the numbers were considered, most members on this forum would belong to a small minority of users, with the remaining majority having rather different preferences. But that's just a personal guess for sure.

I agree with most of that. Though 'trying', in my book, means trying to stay one step ahead of the things you mention by developing effective heuristic / behavioural / HIPS analysis techniques + signatures, none of which is futile and in my view Avast have become quite good at. I really don't see how adding features like Webrep and CreditAlert falls into those categories. They are not 'protection technologies' as such and therefore, IMO, not relevant in a security suite.

EDIT: One of the reasons I like this forum is that it's possible to have an intelligent debate on issues like this without being slammed for doing so (unlike some of the 'wilder' forums I know ;))
« Last Edit: June 27, 2011, 10:39:23 PM by Jem »

Offline Lisandro

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Re: ** INTRODUCING: NEW BETA VERSION OF AVAST - 6.0.1184 **
« Reply #181 on: June 27, 2011, 10:56:17 PM »
WebRep makes it possible for the users to share their experiences with that (thus warning others of the danger) - something that a content scanner cannot see, no matter how sophisticated it is.

So again, I believe it actually is related to security - just not to the "computer code or network traffic"-only security.
Fully agree.
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Offline Lisandro

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Re: ** INTRODUCING: NEW BETA VERSION OF AVAST - 6.0.1184 **
« Reply #182 on: June 27, 2011, 11:11:13 PM »
This should not be included in the core Avast product.
It's not included (bundled with). It's optional.

There has been so much criticism of AV vendors 'inventing' extra functionality to make their products more appealing and supposedly give them a competitive edge
If avast is releasing it for free... ???
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Jem

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Re: ** INTRODUCING: NEW BETA VERSION OF AVAST - 6.0.1184 **
« Reply #183 on: June 27, 2011, 11:13:15 PM »
I would, however, like to see this fixed - which I consider to be a bug, as did others:

http://forum.avast.com/index.php?topic=77396.msg640902#msg640902

Offline Lisandro

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Re: ** INTRODUCING: NEW BETA VERSION OF AVAST - 6.0.1184 **
« Reply #184 on: June 27, 2011, 11:15:34 PM »
means trying to stay one step ahead of the things you mention by developing effective heuristic / behavioural / HIPS analysis techniques + signatures
They're working on it. SuspBehav signatures recently released for instance, the auto-sandboxing, the future browser sandboxing... they're working on it for sure :)

EDIT: One of the reasons I like this forum is that it's possible to have an intelligent debate on issues like this without being slammed for doing so (unlike some of the 'wilder' forums I know ;))
Of course... If we can't debate, we can't progress :)
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Jem

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Re: ** INTRODUCING: NEW BETA VERSION OF AVAST - 6.0.1184 **
« Reply #185 on: June 27, 2011, 11:19:27 PM »
This should not be included in the core Avast product.
It's not included (bundled with). It's optional.

There has been so much criticism of AV vendors 'inventing' extra functionality to make their products more appealing and supposedly give them a competitive edge
If avast is releasing it for free... ???

The fact that there's a free version has nothing to do with it. Avast would clearly like to attract more users and 'interest' them in upgrading to the Pro version. Offering a free version is an excellent way to get people on board, therefore there is the same aim to make the product compelling. That's no criticism - I'd do the same, but not by building in these fringe features. I hasten to add that it's commendable that Avast offer such a good 'free' AV tool, but I also understand that they are not a registered charity.

Jem

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Re: ** INTRODUCING: NEW BETA VERSION OF AVAST - 6.0.1184 **
« Reply #186 on: June 27, 2011, 11:24:20 PM »
They're working on it. SuspBehav signatures recently released for instance, the auto-sandboxing, the future browser sandboxing... they're working on it for sure :)

That's what I'm talking about! The meaningful stuff - IMO.

Offline Lisandro

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Re: ** INTRODUCING: NEW BETA VERSION OF AVAST - 6.0.1184 **
« Reply #187 on: June 27, 2011, 11:26:16 PM »
Jem, I was just saying that avast release the antivirus and other features for free.
They're not attracting the users for the pro version with them.
The pro worths what the pro features add (not the free ones) I think.
The best things in life are free.

Jem

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Re: ** INTRODUCING: NEW BETA VERSION OF AVAST - 6.0.1184 **
« Reply #188 on: June 27, 2011, 11:37:33 PM »
Jem, I was just saying that avast release the antivirus and other features for free.
They're not attracting the users for the pro version with them.
The pro worths what the pro features add (not the free ones) I think.

OK, well, if I've misread Avast from that point of view then I'll withdraw that analysis. Find it hard to accept though - the Pro version is certainly 'pushed' when the free version is downloaded and then of course it's promoted in the main GUI.
« Last Edit: June 27, 2011, 11:42:08 PM by Jem »

Jem

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Re: ** INTRODUCING: NEW BETA VERSION OF AVAST - 6.0.1184 **
« Reply #189 on: June 27, 2011, 11:40:02 PM »
I would, however, like to see this fixed - which I consider to be a bug, as did others:

http://forum.avast.com/index.php?topic=77396.msg640902#msg640902

Apologies for reposting this - my fault for intercepting our 'dialogue' with a change of subject. I'd like to pull it back though for some comment - from Avast themselves if possible.

Nesivos

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Re: ** INTRODUCING: NEW BETA VERSION OF AVAST - 6.0.1184 **
« Reply #190 on: June 27, 2011, 11:43:14 PM »
regardless of whether you choose to install the additional program or use the feature or not.
I disagree. It does regard, it's not regardless in my opinion.

So therefore, I consider the credit alert option to be bloatware.
Don't use it.

1.
Quote
However, to me bloatware is any additional program or option that comes with the program that is not are not part of the main function of the program regardless of whether you choose to install the additional program or use the feature or not.

ISTM that are mixing up your pronouns.  I don't think that the program has an opinion on whether it is bloatware or not. :)

2.  Thanks for the suggestion.  However, you are being a bit sarcastic here.  It is obvious from my posts on this subject that I have chosen not to use it because for me it is bloatware.   So your advise is a bit late to the dance, but that is okay I have been there and done it myself :) :)

Nesivos

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Re: ** INTRODUCING: NEW BETA VERSION OF AVAST - 6.0.1184 **
« Reply #191 on: June 27, 2011, 11:50:27 PM »
You are right that it's a bit similar. Yes, WebRep is not about infections in the sense of a malicious piece of computer code that performs something unwanted.

WebRep is about a "higher level" of danger (from the logical point of view, not necessarily in the actual severity or sophistication) - WebRep is about pages where you ordered something, paid for that but never actually received anything, pages where they tried to trick you into doing something you should actually avoid, pages where you registered and you've been spammed ever since, pages you wouldn't want your children to visit... etc. There's nothing wrong with the webpage from the computer point of view (no exploits, no malicious binaries, no hidden frames) - but the (human) intent behind that page might be bad, and WebRep makes it possible for the users to share their experiences with that (thus warning others of the danger) - something that a content scanner cannot see, no matter how sophisticated it is.

So again, I believe it actually is related to security - just not to the "computer code or network traffic"-only security.

Thanks for clarification on what WebRep does.  Based upon what you just wrote and my experience with WOT they do different things.  People may be critical of WOT but I have found that when they warn in red on a URL it can be because of malicous software.  I have checked a number of the websites that they warn in red about and have found them to contain malicious software.  I think that they also warn for content but this generates a ton of false positives because a number of webpages that have been identified by WOT in red are not PC websites.  No need to expand on this. :)

Offline George Yves

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Re: ** INTRODUCING: NEW BETA VERSION OF AVAST - 6.0.1184 **
« Reply #192 on: June 27, 2011, 11:56:50 PM »
Aren't you tired yet, guys? I am. Do you really think that CreditAlert is a problem worthy of discussion in this topic? Is it necessary to clutter it up with an endless and senseless chatter?
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Offline igor

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Re: ** INTRODUCING: NEW BETA VERSION OF AVAST - 6.0.1184 **
« Reply #193 on: June 28, 2011, 12:20:08 AM »
Thanks for clarification on what WebRep does.  Based upon what you just wrote and my experience with WOT they do different things.  People may be critical of WOT but I have found that when they warn in red on a URL it can be because of malicous software.  I have checked a number of the websites that they warn in red about and have found them to contain malicious software.  I think that they also warn for content but this generates a ton of false positives because a number of webpages that have been identified by WOT in red are not PC websites.  No need to expand on this. :)

Well, I'm certainly not saying that sites of suspicious content cannot simultaneously host and push malware - I suppose it's quite likely. But since avast! has Web Shield and Network Shield - which should block access to these sites anyway - WebRep isn't meant to deal with that, but rather focus on the content. (I know there's been a discussion here on whether WebRep should show the infected sites in red or not... I would rather vote for not, or at least have a special symbol/color for that, but I understand that's a questionable point.)
Of course, since WebRep is based on user submissions, the results will never be extremely reliable - but I'd say the users are certainly better in judging the content than performing a malware analysis of the page.

Dch48

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Re: ** INTRODUCING: NEW BETA VERSION OF AVAST - 6.0.1184 **
« Reply #194 on: June 28, 2011, 12:36:24 AM »
Jem, I was just saying that avast release the antivirus and other features for free.
They're not attracting the users for the pro version with them.
The pro worths what the pro features add (not the free ones) I think.
I don't fully agree with this. Avast clearly (at least partially) offers the free version as a means of making people aware of them and of how good their products are. Then they hope that some of those people will decide to upgrade to the full or pro versions. It's a form of advertising.