Author Topic: Program Update does not start by itself automatically!  (Read 17451 times)

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Offline Anacunga

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Program Update does not start by itself automatically!
« on: June 23, 2011, 11:55:43 PM »
Since quite a while, I always have the flaw that the program update does not start by itself (when set to automatically update), nor is the user informed as soon as an update is ready (when set to ask when an update is ready).

When having set to "tell and ask as soon as an update is ready", just nothing happens (besides the info that new virus database is ready to install (but that's not the problem).

As the tray icon permanenly reports an alarm (so that the user is forced to ignore that alarm not to turn crazy and open the main window to see that the software is up-to-date), the program update is absolutely not noticed.

Sorry, but this IS NOT the way to deal with dangerous things.

Again (as asked for years and so many times): TURN THAT YELLOW !-TRIANGLE OFF AS LONG AS THERE IS NO UPDATE READY - AND TURN IT ON EACH TIME AS SOON AS AN UPDATE IS READY!!!

I am near before switching to another antivirus-solution as recommendation for my customers as many of them not only are not far before turning crazy, but also that as soon as I notice that there is a program update on my own PC, I can prepare to rush to every customer to manually install the software (not virus-database) update - even if the setting is set on "automatically update" - to keep them up-to-date.

BTW: I don't know if that would affect the update behaviour - but often Activex and/or (Java)Script etc. are turned off when there is no automatic program update or announcement.
« Last Edit: June 24, 2011, 12:09:59 AM by Anacunga »

Offline DavidR

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Re: Program Update does not start by itself automatically!
« Reply #1 on: June 24, 2011, 12:22:03 AM »
What would help us greatly is the program version you actually have right now ?

There hasn't been a program update for some time, so the simple fact could be that there isn't one available, that however, depends on the version you have and why I asked.
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Offline Anacunga

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Re: Program Update does not start by itself automatically!
« Reply #2 on: June 24, 2011, 02:49:26 AM »
There was an update declared as program update TODAY. Version before: 6.0.1125 / 110623-0 ... Version after: 6.0.1125 / 110623-1 ... There was a very big red sign to do a program update!

Offline Lisandro

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Re: Program Update does not start by itself automatically!
« Reply #3 on: June 24, 2011, 02:53:38 AM »
There was an update declared as program update TODAY. Version before: 6.0.1125 / 110623-0 ... Version after: 6.0.1125 / 110623-1 ... There was a very big red sign to do a program update!
program version / virus definitions version
The virus definitions what were updated. Generally, twice a day: the -0 and the -1 year-month-date-number.
Is your system time and date correct?
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ady4um

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Re: Program Update does not start by itself automatically!
« Reply #4 on: June 24, 2011, 07:24:31 AM »
@Anacunga,

I myself (still) have some Program updates Tray Notifications issues since last year, but I think that you are mixing several different issues.

1_ Program updates VS. Database updates;
2_ Avast's Tray icon and the updates Tray Notifications (for Database updates, and/or for Program updates);
3_ Configuration of Database updates (manual/ask/automatic) and/or Program updates (manual/ask/automatic);
4_ Status Bar (settings) monitoring several different Avast's components;
5_ Different Dates when a new Stable Program update is announced, released and available to the public (manual update using exe), released to "some" Avast servers (manual update using GUI), available for automatic update, available for "ask the user"...
6_ Avast's Tray icon and notification area VS. Windows Security Warning Tray Icon;
7_ ...

Each of those points are different and separate issues, which in some particular cases might be related to each other.

If you could explain more clearly the issue(s), maybe we can try to help (or even agree/confirm that there is a problem affecting many users).

Offline Anacunga

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Re: Program Update does not start by itself automatically!
« Reply #5 on: June 24, 2011, 11:16:46 AM »
Hmm ... might be that I mix up several things. But I remember that yesterday I was clicking on "program update" (and then an update was done), not on "virus database update" - but apparently it was a virus database update (started by a click on program update). So one of my conclusions is: clicking on "program update" always also updates virus database? OK, why not better that way than leaving out the virus database update.

But what is absolutely not comprehensible (and will never be) is that you are trying to force the user to activate automatic updates and are not respecting the circumstances that there are situations where automatic updating is inappropriate. I'm absolutely not complaining about any notification - but as it is now, it looks like an alarm siren is always droning - having the effect that it is igored; and that is the worst-case-scenario for every security-institution (and I am here thinking of civil protection or chemistry plant alarms etc. what is the base for real catastrophes); just because you are in a situation where you don't have always internet access and you have to first "looking for a free line to get bigger data from the net" (a simple notification is not "bigger", but as small data that immediate delivery is no problem).

It is really not understandable why you don't use the tray icon for a real warning system, as follows (concerning the manual update setting): as long as the virus database is up-to-date, the tray icon looks the same as it looks when having the autoupdate set on; no yellow triangle question-mark for that moment. But as soon as an update is availabe and the update is not yet installed, the yellow (or even red) triangle appears - and redisappears as soon as the update is done. And the "signalling" in the "current status" is a green check-mark tick when set to automatic update, a green exclamation mark turning to yellow exclamation mark as soon as any update is available but not yet installed and red exclamation mark when set to manual update.

To show the red x in "notification mode" is the same thing! Show it when updating is set to manual - but NOT when set to "notificating"; in that case show a yellow exclamation mark (or else).

It is absolutely not comprehensible why you don't use such a system - specially as you have the permanent control over the tray-icon and really can use it as status reminder.

The "notification mode" (ask when an update is availabe) is not the same as the "manual mode". In manual mode, I would suggest to permanently show something like a red triangled exclamation mark; but to show a yellow triangled exclamation mark in "notification mode", it is paranoic to show it when the software is up to date.

BTW: other anti-virus-software is able to differentiate between the different states of update availability; why is AVAST not able to that?

Offline DavidR

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Re: Program Update does not start by itself automatically!
« Reply #6 on: June 24, 2011, 02:12:35 PM »
The Program update check also downloads any virus definitions update if one is available. So it may appear to you that it did a program update when it was only the virus definitions that were updated.

The user isn't forced to do anything, they can change the settings.

The virus definitions are set to Automatic by default as they are measured in KBs rather than MBs and you want the latest virus definitions as soon as possible. The Program update is set to Ask by default.

When the auto update check is done (it is checking both update areas/functions), any virus definitions would be downloaded and installed automatically, but if a program update was available then you would be notified of that availability and you have to respond to download and install it (Ask).

The default Ask mode of the Program Updates does not trigger the ! exclamation mark and yellow triangle over the avast icon. However, setting virus definitions to ask would; you can also change the avastUI, Settings, Status Bar, Components Monitored, and uncheck the Definitions auto updates option, if you want to set that to Ask.
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ady4um

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Re: Program Update does not start by itself automatically!
« Reply #7 on: June 24, 2011, 02:34:57 PM »
@Anacunga,

Besides the clear explanation from DavidR, the additional changes over the Avast's tray icon (exclamation signs) can come from some shields being manually "stopped" (Avast GUI -> open the shield -> "stop" if you want/need). But if you stop a shield, you can also disable the tray "alarms" over Avast's icon in relation to the specific shield (settings -> status bar) so it won't "bother" you.

The other possible tray "alarm" that you might see can come from Windows Security Center (a red "chest" icon or something similar; I currently don't exactly remember). You can change its settings in the Windows Security Center.

If the Windows Security Center is not working as you expect, you may try:

1_ Reboot;
2_ Disable the Windows Security Center;
3_ Reboot;
4_ Re-enable the Windows Security Center (relating it to Avast or whatever security tool you want);
5_ Reboot;
6_ Update all Windows security updates available;
7_ Reboot;
8_ Update Avast (manual program update also performs database update);
9_ Reboot;

10_ Come back to report (positive/negative) feedback.

Offline Anacunga

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Re: Program Update does not start by itself automatically!
« Reply #8 on: June 24, 2011, 02:56:37 PM »
The default Ask mode of the Program Updates does not trigger the ! exclamation mark and yellow triangle over the avast icon. However, setting virus definitions to ask would; you can also change the avastUI, Settings, Status Bar, Components Monitored, and uncheck the Definitions auto updates option, if you want to set that to Ask.
OK, got so far ... but: does the exclamation mark reappear as soon as any update is ready and not yet installed - and redisappear after having installed it? No - obviously not. Why not? That would be the most elegant way to tell the user that "system is not in fully updated state".

Other question: how to turn off the big window that appears after clicking to "update now"? I don't need that - it always bothers as it is interfering to any other task and putting itself into foreground (even when having turned off "allow programs to steal focus" in Windows settings.

Just some seconds ago, I got a new virus update announcement - but neither in the tray icon nor in the main window is visible that a virus update is due to install. Why not? Why don't you show that in the tray icon? And why does not the small announcement window reappear (in that state of an update waiting to be installed) when clicking on the tray icon? And when clicking the "update now" the main window appears anyway.

As a whole the "alert system" does not really look as consequent as expected; in some points it really seems to lack logic; and that's not really inspiring confidence, sorry.

Offline DavidR

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Re: Program Update does not start by itself automatically!
« Reply #9 on: June 24, 2011, 03:37:00 PM »
The exclamation mark isn't about the update but the fact that you haven't got it set to automatic, that condition/parameter hasn't changed. If you wish to keep the virus definitions on Ask then do as suggested and stop avast from monitoring that function.

There is another check if you look at the image and settings again which does monitor the virus definition version, if that were to get out of date then you would see the exclamation mark again, so you have two settings in this regard.

That really is a consequence of not keeping the auto update which is done in the background, when you use the update now it has to do it through the avast user interface. I really have no idea why you feel the need to change the auto update on the virus definitions to Ask (the check will happen anyway and the overhead is minimal to update in the background) ?

Again this is a consequence of not keeping the auto update, the UI only displays the current information up to the point when it would consider the virus definitions to be out of date, then you would see that in the UI and in the exclamation mark.
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ady4um

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Re: Program Update does not start by itself automatically!
« Reply #10 on: June 24, 2011, 04:12:25 PM »
OK, got so far ... but: does the exclamation mark reappear as soon as any update is ready and not yet installed - and redisappear after having installed it? No - obviously not. Why not? That would be the most elegant way to tell the user that "system is not in fully updated state".
DavidR just answered that question.
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Other question: how to turn off the big window that appears after clicking to "update now"? I don't need that - it always bothers as it is interfering to any other task and putting itself into foreground (even when having turned off "allow programs to steal focus" in Windows settings.
Well, if you don't want to be bothered, you have at least 2 possibilities. Avast has a "game mode" setting. That's one possibility that should work in "some" cases. Deactivating the status bar monitoring and setting the popups to say 1 second should also help you to be "less bothered" about tray notifications.

But the "best method" to avoid being bothered with the full GUI twice a day for database updates is to simply set the database updates to "automatic" (which is BTW the default). In addition, other already suggested settings are available to you.

The database updates are measured in KB, so I don't get why to set them as "ask" if you don't like being bothered.
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Just some seconds ago, I got a new virus update announcement - but neither in the tray icon nor in the main window is visible that a virus update is due to install. Why not?
You might not be looking in the correct place? The main GUI has at least "summary" and "maintenance" to look for program and/or database versions and last checking-for-updates times.
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Why don't you show that in the tray icon?
What's the point of showing the versions in the tray? Either you are up-to-date or you are not. And that's an info that you can set to get (those exclamation marks that are bothering you) or you can set to "just don't bother me".
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And why does not the small announcement window reappear (in that state of an update waiting to be installed) when clicking on the tray icon?
I'm not sure what you want. For example, if you set the database update to "automatic" (BTW, default), you only see the tray notification when an actual database update is performed AND IF you set the status bar monitoring for it.
If you are not interested in being bothered, then set it to "automatic" and uncheck the monitoring. If you want to control the database ("ask") then you decide when to update, so no need to tell you twice.
If you want to control also the "checking" if there is an update available, in addition to "applying" the database update, then you can set that too.
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And when clicking the "update now" the main window appears anyway.
Well, you need to decide. Either YOU control the database updates, or set it to "automatic".
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As a whole the "alert system" does not really look as consequent as expected; in some points it really seems to lack logic; and that's not really inspiring confidence, sorry.

Well, I'm sorry to say that IMHO, your modified settings are not being consequent with what you are trying to achieve. Moreover, for someone that is saying that for years has been using Avast and has customers with it, it seems that "navigating" through the GUI and/or reading the help file should be recommended. But that's just an impression; maybe I'm wrong.

Offline Anacunga

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Re: Program Update does not start by itself automatically!
« Reply #11 on: June 24, 2011, 06:44:29 PM »
The exclamation mark isn't about the update but the fact that you haven't got it set to automatic, that condition/parameter hasn't changed. If you wish to keep the virus definitions on Ask then do as suggested and stop avast from monitoring that function.
OK, I'll have a look at that.

There is another check if you look at the image and settings again which does monitor the virus definition version, if that were to get out of date then you would see the exclamation mark again, so you have two settings in this regard.
Did I change that when installing and selecting all status bar items in settings? Why is this not default setting when setting to "ask-mode"?

That really is a consequence of not keeping the auto update which is done in the background, when you use the update now it has to do it through the avast user interface. I really have no idea why you feel the need to change the auto update on the virus definitions to Ask (the check will happen anyway and the overhead is minimal to update in the background)?
I am sometimes on very thin mobile connections - just to chech if new mail has arrived. And downloading eMail-titels just cosumes some bytes what can be affordet at tariffs of 1 EURO per 10kb or even more (yes, such tarifs still exist). Virus-database-update is not urgent just for downloading eMail-titles. In such contexts, NO (absolutely NO) automatic software download is allowed when connecting to internet!

Again this is a consequence of not keeping the auto update, the UI only displays the current information up to the point when it would consider the virus definitions to be out of date, then you would see that in the UI and in the exclamation mark.
OK - I'll have a more detailed look at the behaviour.

Offline Anacunga

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Re: Program Update does not start by itself automatically!
« Reply #12 on: June 24, 2011, 06:57:50 PM »
Well, if you don't want to be bothered, you have at least 2 possibilities. Avast has a "game mode" setting. That's one possibility that should work in "some" cases. Deactivating the status bar monitoring and setting the popups to say 1 second should also help you to be "less bothered" about tray notifications.

But the "best method" to avoid being bothered with the full GUI twice a day for database updates is to simply set the database updates to "automatic" (which is BTW the default). In addition, other already suggested settings are available to you.

WHY ARE YOU SO CRAZY TO WANT TO FORCE ME TO TURN ON AUTOMATIC UPDATES?? ?????? TURNING AUTOUPDATE IS NO SOLUTION!!! I WON'T DO THAT - OR I WILL RATHER INSTALL AVG OR ANY OTHER ANTIVIRUS-SOLUTION!!!!!!!

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Well, you need to decide. Either YOU control the database updates, or set it to "automatic".
I DON'T NEED THAT BIG WINDOW WHEN JUST UPDATING VIRUS DATABASE!!!!!!! IT JUST CONUMES UNNECESSARILY TIME TO ALWAYS GET RID OF IT - AND IT IS ALWAYS DISTURBING BY STEALING FOCUS!!! With AVAST4, that was much better solved!

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As a whole the "alert system" does not really look as consequent as expected; in some points it really seems to lack logic; and that's not really inspiring confidence, sorry.
Well, I'm sorry to say that IMHO, your modified settings are not being consequent with what you are trying to achieve. Moreover, for someone that is saying that for years has been using Avast and has customers with it, it seems that "navigating" through the GUI and/or reading the help file should be recommended. But that's just an impression; maybe I'm wrong.
I remember AVAST4 - that was more consequent and much, much more logic in handling (not because of the less functions - but from it's inner logic and organisation of the user interface!). Notification methods of AVAST4 was really that what I would also expect from AVAST5 or AVAST6!!!

ady4um

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Re: Program Update does not start by itself automatically!
« Reply #13 on: June 24, 2011, 07:59:46 PM »
WHY ARE YOU SO CRAZY TO WANT TO FORCE ME TO TURN ON AUTOMATIC UPDATES?? ?????? TURNING AUTOUPDATE IS NO SOLUTION!!! I WON'T DO THAT - OR I WILL RATHER INSTALL AVG OR ANY OTHER ANTIVIRUS-SOLUTION!!!!!!!
Writing all in capital letters?  ??? :(
Just trying to help. I'm not crazy about any particular setting. I am all for respecting the user's decisions. You are missing my point, that was only a continuation of what DavidR explained.

You have your reasons for setting your Avast as you want, but then you have to deal with the consequences.

I still think that you are not using the adequate settings for your needs and for what you want to achieve. Setting the "apply-database-update" to "ask" would mean that it is "not-automatic", hence you need to somehow "answer" the the "ask". But, you don't want to be bothered. This "seems" to be contradictory.

As you are seeing with the different settings being mentioned, it "must" be some group of settings better than those, don't you think?

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Well, you need to decide. Either YOU control the database updates, or set it to "automatic".
I DON'T NEED THAT BIG WINDOW WHEN JUST UPDATING VIRUS DATABASE!!!!!!! IT JUST CONUMES UNNECESSARILY TIME TO ALWAYS GET RID OF IT - AND IT IS ALWAYS DISTURBING BY STEALING FOCUS!!! With AVAST4, that was much better solved!
Well there you go. DavidR already answered that when you set the database updates to "ask", you need to act by yourself. Once Avast "checks" (not "applays") if there is an update available, Avast "asks".


Let's try some other settings. First, stop the monitoring of those things that are bothering you. You don't want database updates monitoring? Then stop it (uncheck it), under settings -> status bar.

Even if there is some pop up, it is bothering you too much but you don't want to completely stop it? Set the time to 1 second (not zero).

Now go to the settings -> updates. Set all you want/need to manual update (not ask, not automatic). Uncheck the "show notification ... automatic update" if you don't want it.

Now, you don't want to waste any KB for updates? Then in that same place (settings -> updates) change the "auto-update internval" to, say, 1440 (24 hours, once a day). So not only you won't be asked if you want to update, but also the "checking if there are updates available" won't be performed and you won't spend those KB either.

Now continue with settings -> silent/gaming mode. Set there the first checkbox, so Avast won't bother you at all.

Under settings -> sounds, disable them.

Under settings -> community, uncheck everything so no communication will use your bandwith.

I currently don't remember if there is a viewable setting to avoid checking for updates when you "first" connect to the Internet.

You can "play" with all those settings. The key is to understand the consequences of each, so to combine them as you really need/want, but still keep you safe.

If the real problem is the bandwith, then manually check once a day when you don't need to pay so much, but leave the monitoring of the database not being up-to-date, so you won't "forget" to manually update at least once a day (or whichever period you want).

Or, set it to automatically check and automatically update only once a day (instead every 4 hours), so you avoid the situation of "forgetting" to check for updates, and uncheck the up-to-date monitoring.

It seems to me that you don't want Avast even "checking for updates" so frequently, but you don't mind so much to "automatically apply database updates" (so it won't interrupt your work) when, once a day, it performs the "checking" (instead of answering once every 4 hours). I may be wrong, but it doesn't matter. Take this as an example.

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As a whole the "alert system" does not really look as consequent as expected; in some points it really seems to lack logic; and that's not really inspiring confidence, sorry.
Well, I'm sorry to say that IMHO, your modified settings are not being consequent with what you are trying to achieve. Moreover, for someone that is saying that for years has been using Avast and has customers with it, it seems that "navigating" through the GUI and/or reading the help file should be recommended. But that's just an impression; maybe I'm wrong.
I remember AVAST4 - that was more consequent and much, much more logic in handling (not because of the less functions - but from it's inner logic and organisation of the user interface!). Notification methods of AVAST4 was really that what I would also expect from AVAST5 or AVAST6!!!

Are the possible settings perfect? Probably there is place for improvement (in fact, I KNOW there is). Is this free of bugs or strange symptoms? I KNOW they are there.

As I said, try to focus on the correct setting. Avast 4 "is gone". I am confident that the current Avast can "play by YOUR rules".

Dch48

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Re: Program Update does not start by itself automatically!
« Reply #14 on: June 24, 2011, 08:13:25 PM »
If you have updates set to ask they will never work automatically. Any AV program, not only Avast, should have database updates done automatically. Program updates are another matter since the files are much bigger and sometimes will require a restart of the machine to be applied. That could be very inconvenient if an update became available at a bad time. Any update like 110624-0 or 110624-1 is a  virus signature database update, not a program update and they should be applied automatically to maintain as high a level of protection as possible. If you set it to ask, they will not be applied until you do it manually and you will receive a notification to do so.

It's just that simple.