Author Topic: Program Update does not start by itself automatically!  (Read 17556 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

ady4um

  • Guest
Re: Program Update does not start by itself automatically!
« Reply #30 on: June 25, 2011, 02:14:31 PM »
@Anacunga, I indeed understood what you want/need.

About using the word "notification". I chose the wrong word, since it is interpreted as "tray notification". I understood what you want, and I  respect your choice. Other users simply said "you need to use automatic", and you chose to answer their posts instead of carefully reading my suggestion.

From you recurrent answers, it is clear that you don't understand the difference between your Avast "checking" the availability of a database update every 4 hours ("240 min"), and "applying" it whenever you decide. Both "ask" and "manual" respect that.

If you set it to "manual", it doesn't mean you need to do ALL manually. Avast still gets to know when there is a database update available, so no manual "checking" (contrary to what you previously understood).

If you set it to "manual", you don't get the automatic "database update available" notifications.

Note: BTW, if a new update is available and you happen to open the full GUI, no matter the "manual" or the "ask", you still will see the availability of the new update for you to apply (contrary to your previous misunderstanding). Of course, you don't want to do this, and you don't need to.

BUT, the Windows Security Center and Avast still knows about the databaseand update availability and the Avast tray icon "should" change to show you an exclamation mark. The reason I use "should" is because I haven't tested myself (yet), but it is supposed to do that. How? Keep reading.

TRY the following.

1_ settings -> status bar -> UNcheck definitions auto update,  (but leave virus definition version "on")
2_ settings -> updates -> select "engine and virus definitions" "manual update".

Just TRY it, for, say, 24 or 36 hours. Pay attention to the Avast Tray icon and the Windows Security Center Tray Icon (if and when it appears).

If any of those 2 icons shows up, then you know that a new database is available for you to apply whenever you want (just as with "ask", but with the icon instead of the tray notification or the full-screen GUI).

Just TRY it. If it is not "perfect", or something won't work as expected, then you change back, or you change some other setting in addition. I might be wrong.

It's up to you to at least test it.

ady4um

  • Guest
Re: Program Update does not start by itself automatically!
« Reply #31 on: June 25, 2011, 02:22:45 PM »
BTW, Right-click Avast icon -> update, so "manual" doesn't mean opening the full GUI and you don't need the notifications (besides the icon changing).

I don't know if the full GUI will be automatically opened after the update with this 2 settings I suggest to try. That's part of your test.

Offline Anacunga

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 252
Re: Program Update does not start by itself automatically!
« Reply #32 on: June 26, 2011, 10:54:25 AM »
@Anacunga, I indeed understood what you want/need.
Obviously you don't - sorry to tell you that!

If you set it to "manual", you don't get the automatic "database update available" notifications.
BUT I WANT THOSE "DATABASE UPDATE AVAILABLE" ANNOUNCEMENTS IMMEDIATELY AFTER THEY ARE ISSUED!!!!!! AND I SET POLL INTERVAL TO 15 OR 20 MINUTES (AND DON'T LEAVE IT ON ANY HOURS OR MORE) SO THAT I GET INFORMED ABOUT THEM AS SOON AS POSSIBLE!! That's why it does absolutely make no sense to set to "manual" - as you don't get the "update available"-information automatically!!!! Setting to "ask" is the right choice here!

And after I got the information that a new update is available, I can click on the avast-tray-icon at any time that fits for me to install the update (but not before!). That's exactly the scenario that "ask" covers!!!

Offline Anacunga

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 252
Re: Program Update does not start by itself automatically!
« Reply #33 on: June 26, 2011, 10:58:04 AM »
TRY the following:

1: settings -> status bar -> UNcheck definitions auto update,  (but leave virus definition version "on")
2: settings -> updates -> select "engine and virus definitions" "manual update".
OK, I'll try that on one of the machines here - as I see on other machines (that some of them have setting to automatic) when an update was coming in - and I'll see how that setting is behaving ...

ady4um

  • Guest
Re: Program Update does not start by itself automatically!
« Reply #34 on: June 26, 2011, 12:25:34 PM »
OK, I'll try that on one of the machines here - as I see on other machines (that some of them have setting to automatic) when an update was coming in - and I'll see how that setting is behaving ...
Not every computer gets the notification at the same time, but the other computers should give "some" indication, if they are first connected to the internet at the same time. The main GUI can show you if the database is updated, and when the last check was performed (it won't be every 15 minutes; AFAIK there is a minimum limit but it is not shown in the GUI).

Avast checks the availability every 4 hours since your first connection, even under the "manual database update".

Since the database "version" is still being monitored, the icon should mark the availability of a new database. In theory, the icon should change, (replacing the notification of "ask").

Now, here is when we get to the point where:
A) in theory, it should work;, but,
B) in practice, it may not :(.

As I mentioned in one of my first posts in this topic, the tray notifications and the status bar monitoring (exclamation marks over Avast's icon) are NOT working correctly for all users.

Some users can see the exclamation marks, some don't. Some users are receiving the correct tray notifications, but some are NOT. This is a bug which triggers different behaviours under the same settings.

I myself opened a topic about it, with several users reporting different behaviours (while using the same settings).

So, I hope you can see the exclamation mark over the icon when a new database is available, as you should (in theory in general, and in practice for "some" users).

Offline Anacunga

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 252
Re: Program Update does not start by itself automatically!
« Reply #35 on: June 27, 2011, 02:03:53 PM »
Now, here is when we get to the point where:
A) in theory, it should work - but
B) in practice, it may not :(
And that's the case: it does not work!

But anyway: that with the question-mark-triangle should in theory also work in "ask"-mode ... but it does not work either ...

btw: that's exactly what I was asking for: that you can see in the look of the tray icon itself whether an update is due or not.

ady4um

  • Guest
Re: Program Update does not start by itself automatically!
« Reply #36 on: June 27, 2011, 03:24:34 PM »
Now, here is when we get to the point where:
A) in theory, it should work - but
B) in practice, it may not :(
And that's the case: it does not work!

But anyway: that with the question-mark-triangle should in theory also work in "ask"-mode ... but it does not work either ...

btw: that's exactly what I was asking for: that you can see in the look of the tray icon itself whether an update is due or not.

If you carefully read my posts in this topic, you will find:

A) Whether the database updates are "automatic", "ask" or "manual, the "checking" of available database updates is still automatically performed (it depends on a different separate set). This was a concern of yours. Now you finally understand the difference between "checking" and "applying" the updates.

B) Unfortunately, the exclamation mark seems to be not working (the set is ignored). I also tested it in my system, and it also failed to work. As I said, this is a BUG, and it is not the only one in relation to the tray icon and tray notifications. Some users can see it, but some users have different behaviours with the same settings.

C) Whether the update is set to "manual" or "ask", the non-automatic update triggers the full-screen GUI (which was the other part that bothered to the OP ). This is NOT a bug, but I agree with Anacunga that this behaviour should be improved. An option/setting should be added, to either

C.a_ open the full GUI (the current "improvable" behaviour); or,
C.b_ only show it as a tray notification; or,
C.c_ only show it as the tray exclamation mark disappearing (from the previous status of "a new database update is available" exclamation mark over the tray icon) when the update is correctly applied.

I don't know if Avast Team would take a look into this improvement or not. According to Igor, they have "many" of these "little improvements". For sure they should take a look into the bug(s) of the tray icon and tray notifications, and while they are at it, they can improve the behaviour as suggested.

ady4um

  • Guest
Re: Program Update does not start by itself automatically!
« Reply #37 on: September 15, 2011, 04:22:02 PM »
Just an update to some behaviours sited along this topic.

In the current Avast 6.0.1289, the "manual" update setting won't attempt to check for availability (as it used to be in previous versions). This is perfectly acceptable IMHO.

For "ask", Avast still checks for available updates, and shows a tray notification asking if the user wants to update or not in that same moment. The user can always do a manual update in a later moment.

The main GUI also shows if an update is available (not only during the tray notification, but the message is kept in the main GUI so to be seen at any time. This is valid for "ask", not for "manual" (since version 6.0.1289).

About the exclamation mark over Avast tray icon ("unsecured"), it still won't appear after the first new database is available. During recent tests, using "ask", I skipped several database updates in purpose. After several database updates were available but not applied in my system, I finally saw the exclamation mark, but it took (much) more than 24 hours since my previous update was applied, so to finally actually see the exclamation mark over the tray icon.

IMO, this still needs improvements, and there shouldn't be any reason for 24 - 48 hours so to display the exclamation mark.

Offline Anacunga

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 252
Re: Program Update does not start by itself automatically!
« Reply #38 on: September 20, 2011, 10:26:14 AM »
Thanks ... nice to see that and how you work on it!!

Something else in that context: I'm not sure if it is configurable somewhere: when having set to "manual update on demand" and new stuff is ready, a blue info balloon is showing where you can click on it. So far so nice. But by clicking on it, the big maintenance/update-window is showing up. I don't need that big window - but I would appreciate again another info balloon showing up for some seconds (also clickable away) when update was successful. color of it could be red/orange if some major problems occurred (update did not install or else), color could be green when all installed fine, color could be yellow or orange when some attention needed (again another update following or else). Now the balloon color is green when having set to automatic update and blue when set to manual update.

BTW: you got again good rating in latest c't security software test with the remark: a software that you have really big configuration possibilities.


ady4um

  • Guest
Re: Program Update does not start by itself automatically!
« Reply #39 on: September 20, 2011, 10:53:38 AM »
@Anacunga, I just want to be clear. When you say "you", do you mean "Avast"?

Avast Team members are the ones that *should* be working on this. They aren't. I am (by testing and reporting, here in this topic and in another one I opened for this purpose).

Your request is essentially the same as it was before, months ago. Avast developers may change the behaviour in the future Avast 7 (please don't ask when :) ). I doubt they will do it for Avast 6.x (and, again, just to be clear, I have absolutely no idea at all if your request will be even  considered, discussed, implemented...).

I am still testing the "ask" configuration, as I do every time a new program update is released. After more than 5 days from my latest database update, the "Virus definitions update" in Status Bar monitoring is still not kicking in, and Avast says that my system is "secured". I don't think that *any* frequent forum member would agree with Avast in that my system is "secured" after 5 days without updating. (Once again, my system has no problem, and I could perform a database update if I want to; but I am testing the settings so obviously...)

I have seen reports here saying that Avast "suddenly" says the system is NOT secured, and only part of those reports are setting-related. Users should be informed when the system is not being updated, and one clear method is the exclamation mark over Avast tray icon, which unfortunately is NOT working as it should. So users are discovering this after "a too-long time" (weeks). IMO, unacceptable :(.

The only real (good, IMHO) news is what I already reported: under "manual" Avast no longer checks for availability of database updates. Of course under "ask" it must and it does.

Offline Anacunga

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 252
Re: Program Update does not start by itself automatically!
« Reply #40 on: September 20, 2011, 11:28:15 AM »
@Anacunga, I just want to be clear. When you say "you", do you mean "Avast"?

Avast Team members are the ones that *should* be working on this. They aren't. I am (by testing and reporting, here in this topic and in another one I opened for this purpose).

Oh ... what dit I write ... ;) ... I was assuming that some of the inner circle here are from the side of avast themselves - but that might not be so much the case as I was assuming ... sorry for that ... ;)

But there is/was some (little) progress with the ballon: now there is a visible click-button - and when you click it, the balloon really disappears. Before the balloon did not disappear - and you even were able to click several times on "update now" - what just brought the big window in front when the update was already in progress.

Your request is essentially the same as it was before, months ago. Avast developers may change the behaviour in the future Avast 7 (please don't ask when :) ). I doubt they will do it for Avast 6.x (and, again, just to be clear, I have absolutely no idea at all if your request will be even  considered, discussed, implemented...).

As there is progress (but little - see above), I would not exclude some behaviour change in user information about update progress - but ... ;)

I am still testing the "ask" configuration, as I do every time a new program update is released. After more than 5 days from my latest database update, the "Virus definitions update" in Status Bar monitoring is still not kicking in, and Avast says that my system is "secured". I don't think that *any* frequent forum member would agree with Avast in that my system is "secured" after 5 days without updating. (Once again, my system has no problem, and I could perform a database update if I want to; but I am testing the settings so obviously...)

Does avast have some check in case some desktop-firewall-setting is inhibiting update progress or similar stuff?

I have seen reports here saying that Avast "suddenly" says the system is NOT secured, and only part of those reports are setting-related. Users should be informed when the system is not being updated, and one clear method is the exclamation mark over Avast tray icon, which unfortunately is NOT working as it should. So users are discovering this after "a too-long time" (weeks). IMO, unacceptable :(.

I have anoter thing that bothers me: I use very old software that a) uses ads from the web and b) "phones back home" to the programmers. For using it I block that IP-Port used for "phoning back" with the desktop-firewall - but avast always considers even the installer of it as "malware".

The only real (good, IMHO) news is what I already reported: under "manual" Avast no longer checks for availability of database updates. Of course under "ask" it must and it does.
That's how it should be from the beginning on ...

ady4um

  • Guest
Re: Program Update does not start by itself automatically!
« Reply #41 on: September 20, 2011, 02:39:45 PM »
But there is/was some (little) progress with the ballon: now there is a visible click-button - and when you click it, the balloon really disappears. Before the balloon did not disappear - and you even were able to click several times on "update now" - what just brought the big window in front when the update was already in progress.
Are you talking about the tray notifications? I have never had any problem closing a tray notification. For me (and I know that for many other users too) the tray notifications have a little "X", just as any other windows (but much smaller and with a different look, but still the function is the same). You can also set the time it is shown on your screen before it automatically disappears (default 20 seconds).

If you click to update, let it update and the tray notification will go by itself.

In addition, the tray notification doesn't "steal" focus, so even if you don't click on it, you can still keep working and manually update later if that's what you want in that particular moment.

Quote
As there is progress (but little - see above), I would not exclude some behaviour change in user information about update progress - but ... ;)
Sure, but before they even get to the point where they change that behaviour, they should make it work successfully first :). As I recall, the original answer from an Avast Team member was something like: "users are used to it (the full screen) and they expect it, so not sure it will be changed, or even if it possible". Not sure about the exact words, but I think that was "the spirit". Anyway, hope never dies :)...

Quote
Does avast have some check in case some desktop-firewall-setting is inhibiting update progress or similar stuff?

I don't understand the question. Please elaborate.

Quote
I have anoter thing that bothers me: I use very old software that a) uses ads from the web and b) "phones back home" to the programmers. For using it I block that IP-Port used for "phoning back" with the desktop-firewall - but avast always considers even the installer of it as "malware".
I'm not sure I am the one most knowledgeable about that, but in any case it would be better to start a new topic, as it is a completely separate issue. You would probably get more specific and useful answers about it.

Quote
The only real (good, IMHO) news is what I already reported: under "manual" Avast no longer checks for availability of database updates. Of course under "ask" it must and it does.
That's how it should be from the beginning on ...

Well, that shows that there *are* improvements, and this forum is an important part of it. Keep reporting whatever you think doesn't work, and posting ideas (and even better possible solutions :) ).

Offline Anacunga

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 252
Re: Program Update does not start by itself automatically!
« Reply #42 on: September 22, 2011, 03:16:55 PM »
But there is/was some (little) progress with the ballon: now there is a visible click-button - and when you click it, the balloon really disappears. Before the balloon did not disappear - and you even were able to click several times on "update now" - what just brought the big window in front when the update was already in progress.
Are you talking about the tray notifications? I have never had any problem closing a tray notification. For me (and I know that for many other users too) the tray notifications have a little "X", just as any other windows (but much smaller and with a different look, but still the function is the same). You can also set the time it is shown on your screen before it automatically disappears (default 20 seconds).

If you click to update, let it update and the tray notification will go by itself.

In addition, the tray notification doesn't "steal" focus, so even if you don't click on it, you can still keep working and manually update later if that's what you want in that particular moment.

No - I was not thinking on the tray-icon-notificiation itself, but on the small "window" that appears to tell that there is a virus-database ready for download.

Before, you could click several times to "start the download", now the balloon is disappearing (as I would expect it) as soon as you have clicked to start the download.

But I still do not consider the big window as necessary - and I hate windows that are stealing focus (even when that should be disabled in the system-options with tweakui)!

Quote
As there is progress (but little - see above), I would not exclude some behaviour change in user information about update progress - but ... ;)
Sure, but before they even get to the point where they change that behaviour, they should make it work successfully first :). As I recall, the original answer from an Avast Team member was something like: "users are used to it (the full screen) and they expect it, so not sure it will be changed, or even if it possible". Not sure about the exact words, but I think that was "the spirit". Anyway, hope never dies :)...

I really do not appreciate that kind of paternalism, what I have to be used to - specially if I hate some behaviour - and that's generally the case!

Quote
Does avast have some check in case some desktop-firewall-setting is inhibiting update progress or similar stuff?

I don't understand the question. Please elaborate.
Here I was making the point if it would be possible to block or inhibit the update functionality - just by blocking the needed "path" for the update; some kind of: update thinks that it is making an update - but there is no update server reachable, therefore there is no update to do.

Quote
I have anoter thing that bothers me: I use very old software that a) uses ads from the web and b) "phones back home" to the programmers. For using it I block that IP-Port used for "phoning back" with the desktop-firewall - but avast always considers even the installer of it as "malware".
I'm not sure I am the one most knowledgeable about that, but in any case it would be better to start a new topic, as it is a completely separate issue. You would probably get more specific and useful answers about it.
That's not a real issue - the workaround (by declaring the filename as exception) is working so far.

Quote
The only real (good, IMHO) news is what I already reported: under "manual" Avast no longer checks for availability of database updates. Of course under "ask" it must and it does.
That's how it should be from the beginning on ...

Well, that shows that there *are* improvements, and this forum is an important part of it. Keep reporting whatever you think doesn't work, and posting ideas (and even better possible solutions :) ).
Sure I will ... :)