Author Topic: The consequence of poor testing  (Read 15261 times)

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Offline BTIsaac

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Re: The consequence of poor testing
« Reply #30 on: February 26, 2012, 12:44:45 PM »
And what exactly are those problems you had? You could've listed them here so the devs could fix them instead of complaining.

So far every user who had problems after updating from the GUI managed to solve it with a clean install. That's how I got rid of the splash screen at startup and everything else is working for me. What exactly is your problem coming here, calling names and swearing like a sailor? You really expect people to take you seriously like that? Give me a break.

LorenzoC

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Re: The consequence of poor testing
« Reply #31 on: February 26, 2012, 01:08:50 PM »
No I came here to thank Avast people for delivering their unfinished software on my uncle's PC with the update, forcing me to spend time I should have used for more productive stuff trying to remove Avast.
The obvious consequence was I did not install Avast back, not knowing if it could have any issue and not wanting to waste more time and do more damage, in any. And I am not going to install Avast in the near future.

I have spent enough time on the Internet to know developers couldn't care less of what users write on the forums, the forums exist for the very reason of making users help themselves and/or making them waste their time reporting issues without bugging the developers. There are other tools for bug tracking.

The only serious advice should be given on this forum is to not install v.7 unless you are interested in joining the beta test.
People who don't want to help fixing pending issues should stay with v.6 or install some other product.

But then there are the fanboys...

spg SCOTT

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Re: The consequence of poor testing
« Reply #32 on: February 26, 2012, 01:44:09 PM »
Ok, so you are disappointed with avast and probably need somewhere to vent...fair enough.

There have been assumptions from both sides in this thread (that it was your fault, or that avast don't care etc...) which are pretty much wrong as far as I am concerned.

Beta testing, by it's nature will NEVER catch every problem, as you are always testing a small subset of the userbase (and by extension the different configurations)

Look at it this way. Assume that only the people on this forum were beta testers (wrong, I know. Only some were testing, and there are others who may not be part of the forum but test also)

There are 240,129 registered members right now. Lets assume that they are the ones that beta tested.
So out of the 150,107,324 active users (from website) this represents a ~0.16% of the total userbase that is testing the beta versions. Less than 1%.

Now, there are some assumptions there, but I think it is fair to say that the actual value is probably lower than that. This means that there are at least 149867152 (99.84%) potentially unique setups that are untested.

Every release will introduce more potential bugs that may not have been present in previous versions, and this will not be seen until it is released.
avast wouldn't have released a version that they felt that was ready, and they do care. They wouldn't still be in business if they didn't.

Was the beta period rushed? Maybe. I guess the only ones that really know will be avast. We are after all, just users.

You had problems with avast, which will hurt your confidence in it. That is understandable, and your decision to choose another one is also understandable. Some of the responses in this thread were unnecessary and probably made things worse for you, which never helps.

I guess the only thing that can be said, is it is unfortunate that you had issues, and that I hope you have a better experience with whatever you choose from now on.
(I never understand why people make such negative comments when a user posts a topic like this...I am pretty sure if I experienced the same, I may be inclined to act the same.)

Offline BTIsaac

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Re: The consequence of poor testing
« Reply #33 on: February 26, 2012, 01:45:50 PM »
No I came here to thank Avast people for delivering their unfinished software on my uncle's PC with the update, forcing me to spend time I should have used for more productive stuff trying to remove Avast.

Welcome to the world of computers, is all I have to say about that.

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I have spent enough time on the Internet to know developers couldn't care less of what users write on the forums, the forums exist for the very reason of making users help themselves and/or making them waste their time reporting issues without bugging the developers.

Considering the "issues" most people report here that's understandable. You have any idea how many threads I counted reporting the same issue? Immagine the devs trying to read through each and every one and replying to them separately. And besides, so far every time I came to the forums asking for help or reporting a bug, the members were very helpful, and the bugs themselves were fixed by the devs within the next 24 hours. Maybe if you would do the same instead of acting like a smug wise guy, people would help you out. But that's not why you're here. You've come to complain and try to guilt trip people with your uncle.

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But then there are the fanboys...

Oh is that how it works? People who experienced no problems with Avast and find it working just fine are now fanboys. If you're not going to use Avast in the near future, then what's the point of coming here insulting people who do?

LorenzoC

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Re: The consequence of poor testing
« Reply #34 on: February 26, 2012, 04:00:54 PM »
@spg SCOTT:
"is it is unfortunate that you had issues"
Nope. Unfortunate is when a pigeon poops on you because you are in the wrong place in the wrong moment.

In our case it is not accidental, it happens EVERY TIME some condition is met.
I got exactly the same issue as many other Avast users due to:
1. Avast being bugged
2. Avast pushing the auto-update
Of course there isn't any 100% bug free software but most don't crash upon install, refuse to uninstall, force the user to download a removing tool, to reboot in safe mode, etc. And on top if it, why pushing the auto-update? That alone is a nonsense.

"We are after all, just users"
You see things in the wrong perspective. As users we are the only reason why Avast exists.

@BTIsaac:
If I had to worry to crash my system every time I have applied an update I guess I would have beeen doing something else since long ago. It is NOT the world of computers. It is an exception, despite all the efforts on this forum to make it look everyday business.
About the forum, I was just answering the silly suggestion of reporting each issue I got like somebody is going to read it and fix Avast accordingly. About "fanboysm" and alike, I guess it is beyond the reach of most people who replied on this tread.
« Last Edit: February 26, 2012, 04:06:43 PM by LorenzoC »

spg SCOTT

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Re: The consequence of poor testing
« Reply #35 on: February 26, 2012, 07:09:15 PM »
@spg SCOTT:
"is it is unfortunate that you had issues"
Nope. Unfortunate is when a pigeon poops on you because you are in the wrong place in the wrong moment.

In our case it is not accidental, it happens EVERY TIME some condition is met.
I got exactly the same issue as many other Avast users due to:
1. Avast being bugged
2. Avast pushing the auto-update
Of course there isn't any 100% bug free software but most don't crash upon install, refuse to uninstall, force the user to download a removing tool, to reboot in safe mode, etc. And on top if it, why pushing the auto-update? That alone is a nonsense.
Why push the update? Because avast felt that it was a viable release. Plus, if on the default settings, it would be not an auto-update, but a prompt to update. (yes, semantics but the point is that there is still some user interaction, it doesn't do everything on it's own)

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"We are after all, just users"
You see things in the wrong perspective. As users we are the only reason why Avast exists.
When you quote out of context, the meaning of the quote gets taken out of context as well. That comment was a reference to us (users) not really having a proper idea of how successful the update has been, and how it has affected people. The only ones that will really know is avast. They are the ones with the data. All we have is a support forum that will, due to it's nature have a majority of negative posts.
Your follow up comment, is

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@BTIsaac:
If I had to worry to crash my system every time I have applied an update I guess I would have beeen doing something else since long ago. It is NOT the world of computers. It is an exception, despite all the efforts on this forum to make it look everyday business.
There are problems being discussed here, and those helping are doing that. Trying to help where they can. Rather than the "make(ing) it look like everyday business"

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About the forum, I was just answering the silly suggestion of reporting each issue I got like somebody is going to read it and fix Avast accordingly.
Well, avast staff do read this forum, they do post here as well. This is the main method of contact between the users and them. If it is not reported how will anyone do anything about it?
Regardless of whether you think that they will read it or not, if it is not there, then it cannot be solved.

Anyway, this discussion is moot really, since you have moved on and don't want to solve your problems...

Scott

dagrev

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Re: The consequence of poor testing
« Reply #36 on: February 26, 2012, 08:13:00 PM »
Given the number of ongoing problems with the betas and the RC, I hate to admit that I believe the release was rushed just to meet the 23rd deadline.  Just so the release would be exactly one year from ver 6.  As a beta tester (and paid user) I followed the threads and noted my own problems.  In fact, I never got the finial ver 7 loaded properly on my main laptop even after countless rollbacks and clean installs and on top installs.  Given the number of issues that were happening up to the release and afterward I would have to think it was simply a little too quick.  I suspect a revision will be out soon validating this assumption.  Further I don't recall this number of ongoing issues with ver 6. 

The fact is (as had been said) if you should not update to the a version on top of the old--it shouldn't even be an option.  If one shouldn't do it, one shouldn't be asked or encouraged to do so with one simple click.  Have at auto uninstaller that must run first.  Seems kind of silly to give an option then complain that this was not the right thing to do.  There's simply no amount of talking that can make this sound like a good idea in the real world.

Having said that, where else can people go for this kind of full-featured great security software?  No one offers what avast! does, even if there is some rushed decision making going on.  I still think it's one of the very best paid options out there.  When one starts talking free--it's by far the best option.  Nothing comes close.  Nothing.

aztony

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Re: The consequence of poor testing
« Reply #37 on: February 26, 2012, 09:52:11 PM »
LorenzoC, I am in agreement with you. This issue cannot be blamed on the end user and, to do so is ridiculous. I am A+ certified and have been using avast! since the days of its player interface, and with each product revision I have always done an in program upgrade without issue....that is until this release. After upgrading my pc locked up and I had to do a manual reboot, but every time I restarted the system would lock again, ( how is that the end users fault?) I ended up rebooting into safe mode and uninstalling avast!, running 2 cleaners to scrub any remnant files and then rebooting to normal mode. I then downloaded V7 to my download folder and tried to do a clean install but the installer would not run (end user's fault no doubt) and I finally launched internet explorer to download and run V7 installation in the browser to get my A/V back.
 
I haven't lost faith in avast! and will continue to be a loyal user, but obviously something was awry here with this release.

Offline BTIsaac

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Re: The consequence of poor testing
« Reply #38 on: February 26, 2012, 09:58:11 PM »
If I had to worry to crash my system every time I have applied an update I guess I would have beeen doing something else since long ago. It is NOT the world of computers. It is an exception, despite all the efforts on this forum to make it look everyday business.

Well, how should I know your computer has been crashing? You never said anything about what went wrong after all. If all you do is complain without providing any feedback, you are wasting people's time here.

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About the forum, I was just answering the silly suggestion of reporting each issue I got like somebody is going to read it and fix Avast accordingly.

Exactly. Like I said, so far any bug that was reported on the forums was fixed a while after. But how should you know that, when you obviously never reported a single bug, beyond the fact that they exist.

Jack 1000

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Re: The consequence of poor testing
« Reply #39 on: February 27, 2012, 09:53:23 AM »
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What is happening nowadays is that "developers", "power users", "testers", etc are all on modern systems while there are still MANY common users who are on vintage systems. This creates a situation where the development and the testing diverge from the "real" user base. It is obviously made worse by the "release often" policy and the race among firms to add the "newest feature".

Agree 100%.  Was Avast 7 also pushed out to major businesses and corporations as well?  Or are they still on Version 6?

The biggest fear of poor testing is that people may have so many issues with the upgrade of any AV security software not properly tested, they can't install or the removal gets stuck.  They can't or don't know how to get into safe mode, and they think that there are so many issues, that they say, "screw it.  I don't need Anti-Virus"  and wind up with unprotected systems.

And that is a serious concern and something that no security company can take lightly.

Jack
« Last Edit: February 27, 2012, 09:54:56 AM by Jack 1000 »

LorenzoC

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Re: The consequence of poor testing
« Reply #40 on: February 27, 2012, 10:45:18 AM »
There are three groups here.
1. people who install Avast, get the multiple issues, have "faith" in Avast and then come on the forum trying to work around the issues. Regardless the efforts needed, regardless what the issues can be. These are the "fanboys".
2. people who install Avast, get the multiple issues, don't understand what is happening and call somebody else for support, this of course leads to the removal of Avast and its substitution with something else, because who ever does the support doesn't want to deal with unnecessary (and undocumented) issues.
3. people who install Avast, get the multiple issues, think "nice, they haven't tested this crap before pushing it as auto-update", get mad and disappointed, remove Avast and look for something else not because other products are technically better but because Avast isn't trustworthy. Once you don't trust a firm that should provide "security", you don't come to the forum looking for help and/or to help with fixing bugs.

On a side note: there is a well known nonsense trend, "security" bloated suites that make more harm than good.
The old "now with feature XYZ!" or "smarter, faster, more powerful than before".
But as soon as you understand a little bit of Windows systems, you want the exact opposite, the less crappy software possible installed on your PC. And when the new "gold-super-ultra-pro" version of any software cripples your PC and you need to perform an emergency recover in safe mode, you think twice before reinstalling it. Take a look at Avast 7 GUI.

Online CraigB

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Re: The consequence of poor testing
« Reply #41 on: February 27, 2012, 10:53:40 AM »
There are three groups here.
1. people who install Avast, get the multiple issues, have "faith" in Avast and then come on the forum trying to work around the issues. Regardless the efforts needed, regardless what the issues can be. These are the "fanboys".
2. people who install Avast, get the multiple issues, don't understand what is happening and call somebody else for support, this of course leads to the removal of Avast and its substitution with something else, because who ever does the support doesn't want to deal with unnecessary (and undocumented) issues.
3. people who install Avast, get the multiple issues, think "nice, they haven't tested this crap before pushing it as auto-update", get mad and disappointed, remove Avast and look for something else not because other products are technically better but because Avast isn't trustworthy. Once you don't trust a firm that should provide "security", you don't come to the forum looking for help and/or to help with fixing bugs.

On a side note: there is a well known nonsense trend, "security" bloated suites that make more harm than good.
The old "now with feature XYZ!" or "smarter, faster, more powerful than before".
But as soon as you understand a little bit of Windows systems, you want the exact opposite, the less crappy software possible installed on your PC. And when the new "gold-super-ultra-pro" version of any software cripples your PC and you need to perform an emergency recover in safe mode, you think twice before reinstalling it. Take a look at Avast 7 GUI.
I believe you've already stated your views previously so if your not willing to troubleshoot or not willing to use avast again because of some unforseen bugs that arose with the new release then kindly move on and stop your pathetic ranting.

Offline BTIsaac

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Re: The consequence of poor testing
« Reply #42 on: February 27, 2012, 11:01:43 AM »
People, I suspect we're dealing with a troll here. I never thought I'll see one on a tech support forum, but there's no other logical explanation. The only reason this guy is here is to pick a fight and insult people using Avast.

Offline .: L' arc :.

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Re: The consequence of poor testing
« Reply #43 on: February 27, 2012, 02:25:18 PM »
People, I suspect we're dealing with a troll here. I never thought I'll see one on a tech support forum, but there's no other logical explanation. The only reason this guy is here is to pick a fight and insult people using Avast.

I don't think he's a troll. He's a got a good point in the issues. His arguments are logical enough to be considered significant for avast's improvement.
Windows 7 (64-bit) Home Premium SP1
avast! 9 RC1

Techtronic

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Re: The consequence of poor testing
« Reply #44 on: February 27, 2012, 02:43:23 PM »
Well maybe I am a "fanboy" since I installed avast IS 7 on 3 computers and did not encounter ANY issues! Maybe I was lucky or maybe the avast! team created this version just for me 8)


Here is my post from another thread:


"Wow! Just to bring some different perspective to this thread:

avast! manual update from v6 to v7 on 3 laptops running Win 7 Pro x64. Installed V7 on top of v6.

No issues at all! All the v6 settings were kept! Everything works!

Outlook 2010 mail: no issues!

All 3 laptops feel as fast or faster than before!

Internet browsing, no issues! Pages open as fast or faster than before!

Great job avast! team " :D