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Consumer Products => Avast Free Antivirus / Premium Security (legacy Pro Antivirus, Internet Security, Premier) => Topic started by: Mike23 on March 30, 2018, 11:18:42 AM

Title: Why did my CCleaner free version 2.34.xxx, auto update?
Post by: Mike23 on March 30, 2018, 11:18:42 AM
Hi....

I am most unhappy that my old/er version of CCleaner was automatically updated to v5.41.6446 today, after I started my PC.

Who in H$&# gave you/them the right or permission to do that?

Since CCleaner FREE, v2.34.xx does not have that ability, I take it that AVAST did the update.....

WITHOUT MY PERMISSION!

&....What's with all these new settings & options & the terrible "new flat/faded look?"

If I wanted the latest version of CCleaner, I would have checked & D/L'd it myself.

How much more underhanded & intrusive are you, AVAST, going to get?

You are an Anti-Virus program....NOT an automatic updater of any of MY or anyone elses programs running on their M/C's.

I do NOT need any of the NEW features &/or options.

A "cookie" manager/cleaner that lists all/many of the sites I've been to & wants to clean them all?

What else are you scanning on MY damn M/C?
 
(To the AVAST Devs......Please remove the ability for your AV program to automatically check for so called, "out dated" programs on your

customers M/C's....... WITHOUT their exclusive permission.)

This is NOT the "correct" way to proceed.

BTW....I did not have AVAST set to check for any "out dated" programs.

Why did you do that AGAINST MY wishes?

I will definitely NOT be recommending AVAST to anyone.....anymore.

"NOT HAPPY.....JAN!"
Title: Re: Why did my CCleaner free version 2.3.xxx, auto update?
Post by: Pondus on March 30, 2018, 11:37:11 AM
I suggest CCleaner forum  >>  https://forum.piriform.com/forum/4-ccleaner-discussion/

Title: Re: Why did my CCleaner free version 2.3.xxx, auto update?
Post by: DavidR on March 30, 2018, 12:04:16 PM
You don't say what Avast version you have ?

The Software Updater, has CCleaner in its list of software to check for updates, the free version of Avast doesn't auto update software, that is only in paid versions.

If you are using a paid (or free) version of Avast, there is nothing to stop you opening the Software Update settings and having it Ignore certain programs.
Title: Re: Why did my CCleaner free version 2.3.xxx, auto update?
Post by: Mike23 on March 30, 2018, 12:56:24 PM
Hi Pondus, David...
Thanks for the replies.

Sorry that I forgot to include the relevant info.
WIN7 HP, 32 bit, running AVAST Free, v18.2.2328, Build 18.2.3825.307.
Defs, 180329.4.

I do not use any of the so called "features" included in AVAST.
Everything NOT needed is un-checked & that includes anything related to updating MY programs.

I have just posted on the CCleaner fora & will await their response as to why they decided it was best for me to update to the latest version.

Thank you both.

Regs, Mike..

ps. Edited to add... If it wasn't done through AVAST, then how did CCleaner know that I had the old/er version on MY....damn M/C?
Title: Re: Why did my CCleaner free version 2.3.xxx, auto update?
Post by: ky331 on March 30, 2018, 01:30:56 PM
I would like to confirm that the same thing happened to me... my CCleaner Free old version (it was something between 5.02 and 5.08, I'm not sure exactly which one) automatically updated itself two nights ago on my WinXP system to 5.41.   I wouldn't have known about it, except for an alert from WinPatrol that a new scheduled task was trying to be implemented.

In CCleaner, I had UNchecked all boxes related to automatically searching for updates, as well as for "monitoring" the system.   In avast, the Software Updater has automatic updates turned OFF.   Additionally, I believe I had specifically "told" the avast software updater to "ignore" CCleaner.

There is a thread in the CCleaner forum, where at least two other people have reported the same issue:  https://forum.piriform.com/topic/51439-ccleaner-free-updated-himself-and-restartmanager-in-windows-logs/

I can't say whether the update was implemented through CCleaner itself, or whether it was done through avast's software updater... but suffice it to say, with now 4 people having had this happen, it wasn't just a fluke/accident.
Title: Re: Why did my CCleaner free version 2.3.xxx, auto update?
Post by: Mike23 on March 30, 2018, 02:34:40 PM
Thank you for confirming the problem, ky331.
I saw that other thread.

Well, "nukecad" replied & laid the blame right in AVAST's lap.

For ref; > https://forum.piriform.com/topic/51446-my-older-v23xx-auto-updatedwhy/

I only use the 4 basic "options", as I do NOT want an AV program to check for any "Out-dated" programs on my M/C.
I have quite a few that will never need or require updating.

The hide of AVAST to do that!

Regs, Mike..
Title: Re: Why did my CCleaner free version 2.3.xxx, auto update?
Post by: DavidR on March 30, 2018, 03:20:32 PM
Sorry, but that doesn't really change what I said, the Avast Free version doesn't have an Auto Update function in the Software Updater, function.  Neither does it check for all software updates just a small subset of programs (I have just 6 in my list, including CCleaner) and can as has been said disabled/uninstalled

The how to remove link by 'nukecad'  is to a topic from 2015, much has changed since then in both Avast and Piriform CCleaner, but the
Quote from: extract from that link
Software Updater runs in two modes – manual, and automatic. Manual mode is used in Avast Free Antivirus, Avast Pro Antivirus, and Avast Internet Security. It means you have to click on each software and perform an update. While automatic mode, available only in Avast Premier, takes care of everything and you don’t need to do anything.

So either this is done outside of the Avast Software Updater (if you are saying you haven't got it installed), check the Components section to ensure it isn't installed.

Or avast have taken the decision to update CCleaner, neither of which I can't comment on as an Avast user.  So this needs input from the Avast Team.
Title: Re: Why did my CCleaner free version 2.34.xxx, auto update?
Post by: Mike23 on March 30, 2018, 03:54:08 PM
Hi David,
I have exactly the same "features" as you have shown.

The "Software Updater" is definitely not installed.
It's in the list but greyed out, along with all the other crapola..

As I mentioned, I do not need an AV program to check for out-dated programs or take care of my cookies.
 
Would be grateful if the "AVAST Team" could take a look & remove the totally, un-necessary "CCleaner" checker/updater.

Why should "they" care what vintage of software I run?
It's my M/C....NOT theirs.

In other words...."Keep your sticky mits off my M/C."
Thanks for your assistance, David.

Will see how "they" respond.

Regs, Mike..
Title: Re: Why did my CCleaner free version 2.3.xxx, auto update?
Post by: DavidR on March 30, 2018, 03:59:16 PM
You're welcome.
Title: Re: Why did my CCleaner free version 2.3.xxx, auto update?
Post by: Mike23 on March 30, 2018, 04:06:50 PM
& now,
Back to my other job of moderating the nutters at mozillaZine.

Ta muchly..
Title: Re: Why did my CCleaner free version 2.3.xxx, auto update?
Post by: KDibble on March 30, 2018, 05:48:22 PM
I am also having this issue. Using avast! Business Protection (Endpoint Protection 8.x with SOA). There is no "software updater" option in the SOA console. The clients have that option but it is disabled. So it's entirely out of my control.

We have CCleaner installed on several machines because the vendor who sold us those machines included it. We have NEVER used it. It was installed several years ago and we have NEVER updated it. It was not set to run on boot-up by the vendor or by us. Not only was the software suddenly updated today, it was set to run on boot-up by the mysterious "update" process.

I agree with others who have said that this is entirely inappropriate.
Title: Re: Why did my CCleaner free version 2.3.xxx, auto update?
Post by: bob3160 on March 31, 2018, 01:24:34 AM
I've reported this on the Developers channel.
Remember, this is the weekend so don't expect an immediate reply.
Title: Re: Why did my CCleaner free version 2.3.xxx, auto update?
Post by: Mike23 on March 31, 2018, 03:51:26 PM
Hi Bob,
Thanks for that.
Will await their response to this totally un-necessary invasion of MY & the others M/C's.
Title: Re: Why did my CCleaner free version 2.3.xxx, auto update?
Post by: Mike23 on April 04, 2018, 11:52:29 AM
Well,
It's been 4 days & still no response from the Devs.

Any way to ask them again.....politely of course?

I have blocked any out going requests etc., by CCleaner in my Comodo firewall.

I hope "they" can come up with a "fix" for this invasion of our M/C's without our knowledge or permission

&, do NOT do anything like that.....again.

Ta muchly.

Regs, Mike..
 
Title: Re: Why did my CCleaner free version 2.3.xxx, auto update?
Post by: Mike23 on April 07, 2018, 06:31:39 PM
Hi y'awll...
What can one say?

It's been over a week & still no response from "The Team" as to why, "they" decided what was best for me & MY M/C.

I would still like to know exactly what else "they" are using "their" Anti-virus program for in regards to totally un-wanted &
un-necessary silently scanning of MY damn M/C.

Please.....Just go back to being a good Anti-virus program & cut out all the other crapola.

It's slooooowww to load the UI & just chock full of bloatware.

Still waiting for a reply of some kind.

Ta muchly.

Regs, Mike..

Title: Re: Why did my CCleaner free version 2.3.xxx, auto update?
Post by: ky331 on April 08, 2018, 04:48:40 AM
I manually reverted CCleaner on my XP system from 5.41 back to 5.09.   It stayed that way for a few days... until just now, when I updated avast (via internal updater) from 17.x to 18.3... and CCleaner was "simultaneously" updated to 5.41 again.
Title: Re: Why did my CCleaner free version 2.3.xxx, auto update?
Post by: Mike23 on April 09, 2018, 12:21:48 PM
Hi ky331,
Thanks for the update.

Apparently, AVAST are taking it upon themselves to perform the updating process,
despite any or all attempts to NOT update "our" programs with NO notification & against our will/s.

Mine just updated to that version as well, even though I had the CCleaner.exe/updater blocked by my COMODO firewall.
or am I mistaken?

Trouble I have now is, that AVASt UI will not open correctly.
It just displays as a totally blank, white screen.

A "Repair" does absolutely nothing.
I am in the process of an Un-install, Clean up the leftover crap, (with their tool), going off-line etc., etc., etc.

Just another "stuff-up" by the AVAST team....methinks.

When are "they" going to go back & just become a good Anti-virus program?

That's what I would like to know.

Regs, Mike..

[edit]
Well, after much "stuffing around", I am now able to see the UI & check all my original settings.
I must admit though, that COMODO did have a small hand in why AVAST was not opening.
Anyway, shesa apples again.
:)
[/edit]
Title: Re: Why did my CCleaner free version 2.3.xxx, auto update?
Post by: ky331 on April 09, 2018, 02:54:37 PM
In my case, I used avast's INTERNAL updater to update from 17.x to 18.3, and so there was no warning/prompts about allowing/denying CCleaner's update.   I'm wondering if, had I done a COMPLETE install of avast, if there would have been an option/offer to accept/decline CCleaner??
Title: Re: Why did my CCleaner free version 2.3.xxx, auto update?
Post by: Mike23 on April 09, 2018, 04:08:06 PM
Well, during the complete removal & re-installation process,
there was no inkling or reference to CCleaner.

I do not know what AVAST is scanning during the install or even when running "normally."

I just wish that it would not touch any of my installed programs.

Will see what response the "Team" come up with.

Regs, Mike..
Title: Re: Why did my CCleaner free version 2.3.xxx, auto update?
Post by: nwrcs on April 10, 2018, 06:45:26 PM
At least two of my machines using Avast have done exactly that with CCleaner...AND AdBlockPlus.
New versions of ABP at least on my OS do not have the option of using right click, select an element to hide....and all this started with Avast program updates (free).

I disable all auto updates (including killing MS Auto Updates) so...somehow Avast snuck something in there on unsuspecting users.

With all the reboots, I wonder if they are getting a kickback on reboots?
Title: Re: Why did my CCleaner free version 2.3.xxx, auto update?
Post by: erick.pomada on April 13, 2018, 05:20:58 AM
Hi

I'm just check my pc and see that my ccleaner has automatically updated to version 5.41.6446 from my older version 4.03.xxx too just like other.

The only difference is I'm using AVG not Avast.

As I know Avast has already acquired AVG too so I'm assuming ccleaner automatically update happen to user that using AVG and Avast antivirus
Title: Re: Why did my CCleaner free version 2.3.xxx, auto update?
Post by: Mike23 on April 13, 2018, 01:04:08 PM
NB:
AVAST has included a "CCleaner.updater.exe" to CCleaner.
I stopped it? by blocking it in my COMODO firewall.
Seems to work O.K. now, as it hasn't updated to version 5.41.xx or whatever.

So... Check your Program folder for CCleaner.updater.exe or similar.
If it's there, & it will be, block it in your firewall.
I don't trust AVAST to "re-install it" if you just "re-name" the updater.
Title: Re: Why did my CCleaner free version 2.3.xxx, auto update?
Post by: Cluster-Lizard2014 on April 13, 2018, 02:46:13 PM
I would have thought that if the updater is a separate file the more obvious solution is simply to delete it permanently. I've done that with other programs which arrogantly autorun their updater with no way to disable it otherwise. 

However if you delete it in some of those cases they regenerate the updater every time you use the program. That's why I suggest trying disabling rather than deleting it first. Something else I've also thought about is replacing it with a dummy file of the same name but quite frankly if a program is causing me that much annoyance I uninstall it.   

Check also in CCleaner's own Tools > Startup menu option that it has not been added under Scheduled Tasks. There should be a "CCleanerSkipUAC" there so you don't get the UAC (User Account Control) dialogue box every time you launch CCleaner but if there is a CCleaner updater task try either disabling or deleting it.
Title: Re: Why did my CCleaner free version 2.3.xxx, auto update?
Post by: pk on April 13, 2018, 05:31:29 PM
Hi guys,
let me please answer some questions here. Outdated software is quite hard to maintain - in Avast, we still support Avast Antivirus product for XP despite the fact that only 5% of our costumers still use XP. Web servers (for updates, communication, ...) must still support old methods which were used in this product many many years ago. We have still some users on Avast v8 and we cannot 100% guarantee they are safe for the latest threats, because Avast v8 doesn't contain some new shields or technologies available on newer OSes.

We have decided to upgrade all outdated CCleaner versions (v1.xx - v5.20) to the latest version. Portable versions were excluded. The reason is that old CCleaner version may not work as expected for for the latest software (your CCleaner is old, but users expect it will work perfectly also for e.g. latest Chrome which is updated every 6 weeks), maintenance of the latest version is much more easier for both developers and support and also from possible security issues.

I would be glad if you try the latest version and report any feedback so we can work together to improve CCleaner product for all our users. Thanks!

Petr
Title: Re: Why did my CCleaner free version 2.3.xxx, auto update?
Post by: DavidR on April 13, 2018, 05:43:53 PM
NB:
AVAST has included a "CCleaner.updater.exe" to CCleaner.
I stopped it? by blocking it in my COMODO firewall.
Seems to work O.K. now, as it hasn't updated to version 5.41.xx or whatever.

So... Check your Program folder for CCleaner.updater.exe or similar.
If it's there, & it will be, block it in your firewall.
I don't trust AVAST to "re-install it" if you just "re-name" the updater.


I don't allow CCleaner to run on computer start and I don't allow it to inform me of updates.  I have had these settings right from the start of my use of CCleaner many years ago, see attached.   Whilst CCleaner is in the list of monitored software, it may notify me, but it has never autonomously  updated CCleaner, only if I instructed it to do so.  That said, I have never let CCleaner get so out of date that it may get updated automatically.

I periodically check to see if there are any updates and I also monitor the Avast Forum / General - >> UPDATES << topic. That is pretty good for a reminder of many programs I have installed rather than allow autonomous updates by programs.
Title: Re: Why did my CCleaner free version 2.3.xxx, auto update?
Post by: Cluster-Lizard2014 on April 13, 2018, 06:40:58 PM
Hi guys,
let me please answer some questions here. Outdated software is quite hard to maintain - in Avast, we still support Avast Antivirus product for XP despite the fact that only 5% of our costumers still use XP. Web servers (for updates, communication, ...) must still support old methods which were used in this product many many years ago. We have still some users on Avast v8 and we cannot 100% guarantee they are safe for the latest threats, because Avast v8 doesn't contain some new shields or technologies available on newer OSes.

We have decided to upgrade all outdated CCleaner versions (v1.xx - v5.20) to the latest version. Portable versions were excluded. The reason is that old CCleaner version may not work as expected for for the latest software (your CCleaner is old, but users expect it will work perfectly also for e.g. latest Chrome which is updated every 6 weeks), maintenance of the latest version is much more easier for both developers and support and also from possible security issues.

I would be glad if you try the latest version and report any feedback so we can work together to improve CCleaner product for all our users. Thanks!

Petr

By the same reasoning the problem is that some us of want to and indeed need to use older software that is not being updated, older Windows and ESR browser versions come to mind.
 
Because of that isn't there the potential that a new version of CCleaner may not work as it is supposed to for the same sort of reasons? Fewer people might now be using Windows XP as their primary OS but I'd bet plenty have it and other Windows OS running dual boot or on virtual machines along with older programs/hardware that only work or work best when using 'outdated' software. Such systems are actually kept working and more secure by not allowing changes, particularly updates.

They might even have their computer system deep frozen so it returns to that fixed state on every boot. That was one solution recommended when support for Windows XP ended.

The point is why force updates on people who do not want them whether their objections are valid or not? If using an older version of CCleaner causes issues its their problem to sort out.
Title: Re: Why did my CCleaner free version 2.3.xxx, auto update?
Post by: digmor crusher on April 13, 2018, 07:28:33 PM
Avast should not be forcing anyone to update anythng on their own computer, their computer their choice, period. If Avast wants people to know an update is availabe simply have box pop up indicataing this and let them decide. This is exactly why Avast"s reputation has been trending downward for some time now.
Title: Re: Why did my CCleaner free version 2.3.xxx, auto update?
Post by: Cluster-Lizard2014 on April 14, 2018, 02:56:59 PM
Agree very much.

Checking for updates and informing us of such I can live with, especially if even that option has an opt out. That is what CCleaner has done for the 8 years I've been using it. With the exception of the few times where a new CCleaner update caused those opt out user settings to be ignored (quickly fixed in later updates) I've had almost nothing to complain about.

CCleaner has always just done what it is supposed to do, does not nag you to update if you do not want it too and older versions, used for whatever reason, simply do not cause problems anyway. The OP's long term use of version 2.3xxx, apparently without issue, is more good evidence of that. 

Forcing updates on users is a detestable practice and after last year's debacle with the trojan infected official 32 bit installer you would have thought AVAST might have learned something. Apparently not.       
Title: Re: Why did my CCleaner free version 2.3.xxx, auto update?
Post by: Mike23 on April 14, 2018, 03:56:08 PM
@ pk...
You wrote...
Quote
let me please answer some questions here. Outdated software is quite hard to maintain...

We have decided to upgrade all outdated CCleaner versions (v1.xx - v5.20) to the latest version.

What gives you or anyone else, the right to automatically update any program I choose to run on MY M/C?
Old or not & without any kind of notification (or option to not have it updated) of doing so?

&.....The most important aspect of this intrusion is this...

"They" actually silently, stealthily & sneakily installed an .exe file onto our M/C's with no prior knowledge or notification of any kind.
Talk about watching out for malware & viri invading our M/C's.


You are just an AV program for C$^&$@*'s sake!

Just NOT on, chum.

&....Why the reference to Google's Chrome browser?
I wouldn't touch it if you paid me.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------ 

@ Cluster-Lizard2014,

Many thanks for your support re; ....
Quote
The point is, why force updates on people who do not want them whether their objections are valid or not?
If using an older version of CCleaner causes issues its their problem to sort out.

@ digmor crusher,
Quote
Avast should not be forcing anyone to update anythng on their own computer, their computer their choice, period.

Just to keep you all "updated"..... (Sorry, but I could not resist.)
I am now running my old faithful CCleaner v2.34.xxxx & it's performing perfectly.
In all the years that I've been using it, I have never had any reason to hit that
"Check for updates" button at the lower RHS.
(Luckily, I keep the old .exe's around.....JIC.)

To the AVAST Team.....
Just keep your sticky fingers out of my/our M/C's.
Thank you.

I have never had any kind of "nasty" on my M/C since I started in 2003/4.

AVAST....Just go back to being a good AV program, like you used to be & leave our computers to us.

(I'm not going to start on how slooow the new AVAST program is to open. All that un-needed bloatware.)
&...What's with the "Web Cam Shield" & "Driver Updater"?
A small piece of black insulation tape will stop the camera dead or simply, turn it off.
For goodness sake, you're an anti-virus program......What else have you got in store for us lowly users?

Thanks muchly.

Regs, Mike.. 

ps. To all concerned...
If you re-name or simply delete the CCleaner updater, AVAST may just recreate the file & keep on updating it against your wishes.
Best to block it in your firewall. That will stop it cold.
Good luck. :)
Title: Re: Why did my CCleaner free version 2.3.xxx, auto update?
Post by: erick.pomada on April 17, 2018, 04:26:16 PM
Hi guys,
let me please answer some questions here. Outdated software is quite hard to maintain - in Avast, we still support Avast Antivirus product for XP despite the fact that only 5% of our costumers still use XP. Web servers (for updates, communication, ...) must still support old methods which were used in this product many many years ago. We have still some users on Avast v8 and we cannot 100% guarantee they are safe for the latest threats, because Avast v8 doesn't contain some new shields or technologies available on newer OSes.

We have decided to upgrade all outdated CCleaner versions (v1.xx - v5.20) to the latest version. Portable versions were excluded. The reason is that old CCleaner version may not work as expected for for the latest software (your CCleaner is old, but users expect it will work perfectly also for e.g. latest Chrome which is updated every 6 weeks), maintenance of the latest version is much more easier for both developers and support and also from possible security issues.

I would be glad if you try the latest version and report any feedback so we can work together to improve CCleaner product for all our users. Thanks!

Petr

Since you said Avast is the one updating ccleaner older version to the latest. then i assume its safe to say that AVG did the same right?
i found this thread while searching on google about this problem, tried to ask to avg support but no respond or confirmation from them :(
Title: Re: Why did my CCleaner free version 2.3.xxx, auto update?
Post by: stibi on April 17, 2018, 06:54:46 PM
We have decided to upgrade all outdated CCleaner versions (v1.xx - v5.20) to the latest version. Petr

Hi Petr,

if Avast will decide at some time to update/renew or whatever you want on my computer without asking me:
That will by my last contact with Avast.

Nobody changes objects on my computers without my knowledge, only exception is preventing me from viruses and other malware.

Petr - you/your company can lose your credit only once ...
Title: Re: Why did my CCleaner free version 2.3.xxx, auto update?
Post by: tinstaafl on April 17, 2018, 07:46:16 PM
Hi guys,
let me please answer some questions here. Outdated software is quite hard to maintain - in Avast, we still support Avast Antivirus product for XP despite the fact that only 5% of our costumers still use XP. Web servers (for updates, communication, ...) must still support old methods which were used in this product many many years ago. We have still some users on Avast v8 and we cannot 100% guarantee they are safe for the latest threats, because Avast v8 doesn't contain some new shields or technologies available on newer OSes.

We have decided to upgrade all outdated CCleaner versions (v1.xx - v5.20) to the latest version. Portable versions were excluded. The reason is that old CCleaner version may not work as expected for for the latest software (your CCleaner is old, but users expect it will work perfectly also for e.g. latest Chrome which is updated every 6 weeks), maintenance of the latest version is much more easier for both developers and support and also from possible security issues.

I would be glad if you try the latest version and report any feedback so we can work together to improve CCleaner product for all our users. Thanks!

Petr

Thanks for coming 'clean' with that!

But I must wish Avast the best of luck with that approach to forced updating of software on a user's computer.

Once this draconian mindset gets tweeted about a few times, it will be the beginning of the end for Avast...
Title: Re: Why did my CCleaner free version 2.3.xxx, auto update?
Post by: bob3160 on April 17, 2018, 07:51:29 PM
Hi guys,
let me please answer some questions here. Outdated software is quite hard to maintain - in Avast, we still support Avast Antivirus product for XP despite the fact that only 5% of our costumers still use XP. Web servers (for updates, communication, ...) must still support old methods which were used in this product many many years ago. We have still some users on Avast v8 and we cannot 100% guarantee they are safe for the latest threats, because Avast v8 doesn't contain some new shields or technologies available on newer OSes.

We have decided to upgrade all outdated CCleaner versions (v1.xx - v5.20) to the latest version. Portable versions were excluded. The reason is that old CCleaner version may not work as expected for for the latest software (your CCleaner is old, but users expect it will work perfectly also for e.g. latest Chrome which is updated every 6 weeks), maintenance of the latest version is much more easier for both developers and support and also from possible security issues.

I would be glad if you try the latest version and report any feedback so we can work together to improve CCleaner product for all our users. Thanks!

Petr

Thanks for coming 'clean' with that!

But I must wish Avast the best of luck with that approach to forced updating of software on a user's computer.

Once this draconian mindset gets tweeted about a few times, it will be the beginning of the end for Avast...
Is it really better to do nothing and allow the product to not do a poor or worse, a harmful job on that old computer only because the user hasn't updated the product ???
Title: Re: Why did my CCleaner free version 2.3.xxx, auto update?
Post by: tinstaafl on April 17, 2018, 08:10:21 PM
Hi guys,
let me please answer some questions here. Outdated software is quite hard to maintain - in Avast, we still support Avast Antivirus product for XP despite the fact that only 5% of our costumers still use XP. Web servers (for updates, communication, ...) must still support old methods which were used in this product many many years ago. We have still some users on Avast v8 and we cannot 100% guarantee they are safe for the latest threats, because Avast v8 doesn't contain some new shields or technologies available on newer OSes.

We have decided to upgrade all outdated CCleaner versions (v1.xx - v5.20) to the latest version. Portable versions were excluded. The reason is that old CCleaner version may not work as expected for for the latest software (your CCleaner is old, but users expect it will work perfectly also for e.g. latest Chrome which is updated every 6 weeks), maintenance of the latest version is much more easier for both developers and support and also from possible security issues.

I would be glad if you try the latest version and report any feedback so we can work together to improve CCleaner product for all our users. Thanks!

Petr

Thanks for coming 'clean' with that!

But I must wish Avast the best of luck with that approach to forced updating of software on a user's computer.

Once this draconian mindset gets tweeted about a few times, it will be the beginning of the end for Avast...
Is it really better to do nothing and allow the product to not do a poor or worse, a harmful job on that old computer only because the user hasn't updated the product ???

Well it's not a matter of better or worse to do nothing.  It's a matter of leaving the choice to the individual regarding assumption of risk.  ANYTHING that automatically installs software by stealth methods should be untrusted, same as malware.  All the software developer needs to be responsible for is notifying the user that their software is out of date, and offering to correct it.  Or even disabling the license if the update is not made.  But forcing an update into a user's computer is just immoral.

By analogy, implementing helmet laws for civilian automobile passengers would obviously save lives lost to head injuries.  That would be better than allowing people to die in crashes.  But I doubt that nanny rules like that would ever get through legislation in a democracy.
Title: Re: Why did my CCleaner free version 2.3.xxx, auto update?
Post by: bob3160 on April 17, 2018, 08:14:58 PM
Hi guys,
let me please answer some questions here. Outdated software is quite hard to maintain - in Avast, we still support Avast Antivirus product for XP despite the fact that only 5% of our costumers still use XP. Web servers (for updates, communication, ...) must still support old methods which were used in this product many many years ago. We have still some users on Avast v8 and we cannot 100% guarantee they are safe for the latest threats, because Avast v8 doesn't contain some new shields or technologies available on newer OSes.

We have decided to upgrade all outdated CCleaner versions (v1.xx - v5.20) to the latest version. Portable versions were excluded. The reason is that old CCleaner version may not work as expected for for the latest software (your CCleaner is old, but users expect it will work perfectly also for e.g. latest Chrome which is updated every 6 weeks), maintenance of the latest version is much more easier for both developers and support and also from possible security issues.

I would be glad if you try the latest version and report any feedback so we can work together to improve CCleaner product for all our users. Thanks!

Petr

Thanks for coming 'clean' with that!

But I must wish Avast the best of luck with that approach to forced updating of software on a user's computer.

Once this draconian mindset gets tweeted about a few times, it will be the beginning of the end for Avast...
Is it really better to do nothing and allow the product to not do a poor or worse, a harmful job on that old computer only because the user hasn't updated the product ???

Well it's not a matter of better or worse to do nothing.  It's a matter of leaving the choice to the individual regarding assumption of risk.  ANYTHING that automatically installs software by stealth methods should be untrusted, same as malware.

By analogy, implementing helmet laws for civilian automobile passengers would obviously save lives lost to head injuries.  That would be better than allowing people to die in crashes.  But I doubt that nanny rules like that would ever get through legislation in a democracy.
You're already required to wear seat belts. Not that this has anything to do with the safety and security of your computer.
This doesn't affect me since I always update all of the software on my computer once I know there's a new version available. :)
Title: Re: Why did my CCleaner free version 2.3.xxx, auto update?
Post by: Patrick2 on April 17, 2018, 09:11:00 PM
Always Update every single piece of software once I see a notice that a new update is available,  have done that for years even when I did run Windows XP, Vista, Windows 7 and 8.0 and 8.1 and Finally Windows 10

Avast staff is just trying to keep folks safe, protected, and have the software in that can handle the newest browsers, and Operating system aspects,  older versions of CCleaner wouldn't know what to do with updated Chrome browser, Firefox,  or other programs

But people choices i guess what they wanna run on there computers, but if everyone practiced safe hex/keeping software up to date, we'd probably have less malware infections around the world

Title: Re: Why did my CCleaner free version 2.3.xxx, auto update?
Post by: Azraelbuc on April 17, 2018, 11:44:47 PM
Once this draconian mindset gets tweeted about a few times, it will be the beginning of the end for Avast...
I think that moment passed some time ago, when it has turned into this bloated abomination of a wannabe OS.
Man, i wish i could go back to 4.8, those were the good times, when an AV was an AV and nothing else...
And Petr, you don't need all the shields to be safe, hell, i have only the File and Web ones installed, the rest are for those that can't think and need to be protected from themselves.
Title: Re: Why did my CCleaner free version 2.3.xxx, auto update?
Post by: bob3160 on April 18, 2018, 12:00:36 AM
Once this draconian mindset gets tweeted about a few times, it will be the beginning of the end for Avast...
I think that moment passed some time ago, when it has turned into this bloated abomination of a wannabe OS.
Man, i wish i could go back to 4.8, those were the good times, when an AV was an AV and nothing else...
And Petr, you don't need all the shields to be safe, hell, i have only the File and Web ones installed, the rest are for those that can't think and need to be protected from themselves.
Times change protection needs change. Your computer, your choice. At least Avast offer you one.

Title: Re: Why did my CCleaner free version 2.3.xxx, auto update?
Post by: stibi on April 18, 2018, 10:03:15 AM
Avast staff is just trying to keep folks safe, protected, and have the software in that can handle the newest browsers, and Operating system aspects...

That's nonsense, sorry. I use al lot of old software. Examples - MS Office 2007, Lightroom 6, PS Elements and many more. They are of course outdated, but they do their job. They are paid, and I don't want to pay a newer version, as I do not need their functions.
I also use freeware and old database programs.

It's my choice. Not Avast's choice  >:(
Title: Re: Why did my CCleaner free version 2.3.xxx, auto update?
Post by: bob3160 on April 18, 2018, 12:01:19 PM
Avast staff is just trying to keep folks safe, protected, and have the software in that can handle the newest browsers, and Operating system aspects...

That's nonsense, sorry. I use al lot of old software. Examples - MS Office 2007, Lightroom 6, PS Elements and many more. They are of course outdated, but they do their job. They are paid, and I don't want to pay a newer version, as I do not need their functions.
I also use freeware and old database programs.

It's my choice. Not Avast's choice  >:(
None of these make changes to your system or delete items from your system.
You can't compare apples to oranges. :)
Title: Re: Why did my CCleaner free version 2.3.xxx, auto update?
Post by: Cluster-Lizard2014 on April 18, 2018, 01:56:44 PM
As I said earlier: if you're using older OS, software or hardware for whatever reason and you know a particular CCleaner version works perfectly well with it updating CCleaner or having it updated without a by your leave is the thing which, potentially, increases the risk to your system. Not doing anything ie. not updating is actually the safest option most of the time in these circumstances.

There have been so many software updates of OS and other software that have caused and do cause real problems. Windows updates, which should be at the apex of the safe to install curve are, arguably, the things most likely to banjax your system.     

But we still get the sort of response we see in threads like this from those who've bought into the big lie that updating always makes their system 'safer.' That weasel word and everything it implies is used to justify choosing automatic updating. It is only a small step from that to having the choice removed altogether and forcing updates on users. This is simply manufactured consent for a loss of choice.
Title: Re: Why did my CCleaner free version 2.3.xxx, auto update?
Post by: bob3160 on April 18, 2018, 02:29:01 PM


@cluster,
As usual, a long story but the advice isn't correct.
Title: Re: Why did my CCleaner free version 2.3.xxx, auto update?
Post by: Mike23 on April 18, 2018, 04:17:21 PM
@ Patrick2...
You said...
Quote
.....older versions of CCleaner wouldn't know what to do with updated Chrome browser, Firefox,

Just a FWIW...
If anyone allows CCleaner anywhere near either Firefox or Thunderbird, they're crazy.
Why?

Because CCleaner has a really nasty habit of removing "stuff" from them, such as Bookmarks, etc., & at times,
damaging their Profile.

We get a heap of those types of problems in the mozillaZine fora, where I am a moderator. 

We always tell people to remove any/all references to both programs because of the errors CCleaner causes.
------------------------------------------------------------------

@ bob3160...

What you do with your M/C is your choice.

What I do with MY M/C....is MY damn choice.

BUT, for AVAST to silently, etc., etc., & sneakily., install an .exe file onto MY M/C
is just NOT on Bob.

There's no reason for "them" to perform THAT type of action,

especially WITHOUT the owners absolute permission to do so.

How did "they" know what programs I had/have on MY M/C?
Answer that one, please.

What else are "they" scanning?

Total malware act AFAIAC.

You also said...
Quote
This doesn't affect me since I always update all of the software on my computer once I know there's a new version available...
That's all well 'n' good....for you, but,
In my situation, (I dual boot WIN 7 & 10), I cannot use my stand alone scanner or MY printer with WIN 10.

Just because of "their old age."
Utter crap.
They both work fine in WIN 7.

&...As I mentioned,

AVAST, just go back to being a good AV program & leave/remove all the un-necessary garbage.

&....What's with the "NEW Features" you have included, like the Driver Updater & Web Cam Shield?
Utterly useless additional BLOATWARE.

You're an ANTI-VIRUS program.

Leave our computers alone. 

Thank you.

Regs Mike..
Title: Re: Why did my CCleaner free version 2.3.xxx, auto update?
Post by: Cluster-Lizard2014 on April 18, 2018, 06:41:17 PM


@cluster,
As usual, a long story but the advice isn't correct.

That was not meant to be taken as advice not to update in general but in specific cases and doing it in an informed way. That necessarily requires full control of the decision if and when to update.

The option to make such choices is being threatened and why some here object to it very strongly.
Title: Re: Why did my CCleaner free version 2.3.xxx, auto update?
Post by: bob3160 on April 19, 2018, 04:53:09 PM


@cluster,
As usual, a long story but the advice isn't correct.

That was not meant to be taken as advice not to update in general but in specific cases and doing it in an informed way. That necessarily requires full control of the decision if and when to update.

The option to make such choices is being threatened and why some here object to it very strongly.
It's impossible to please everyone. Any one who thinks they can is a fool. All you can do is do what's best for most.
Title: Re: Why did my CCleaner free version 2.3.xxx, auto update?
Post by: Cluster-Lizard2014 on April 20, 2018, 01:07:46 AM
That's the creed of the negative utilitarian  - we can't please everyone so we'll just please the majority and those in the minority who aren't happy can be ignored. That attitude too often leads down the slippery slope to paternalism, authoritarianism or worse.  We know what's good for you and if you don't agree with us you're wrong.   

The ideal should be not to annoy anyone and the easiest way that can be done in this case is by offering choice. In other words set the default option to update CCleaner automatically but in the Settings provide two other choices 1). auto check only for updates/install if wanted or 2). not update at all.

A simple solution, a minimal change from the way CCleaner has always handled updates and one which satisfies everyone.   
Title: Re: Why did my CCleaner free version 2.3.xxx, auto update?
Post by: bob3160 on April 20, 2018, 01:38:59 AM
That's the creed of the negative utilitarian  - we can't please everyone so we'll just please the majority and those in the minority who aren't happy can be ignored. That attitude too often leads down the slippery slope to paternalism, authoritarianism or worse.  We know what's good for you and if you don't agree with us you're wrong.   

The ideal should be not to annoy anyone and the easiest way that can be done in this case is by offering choice. In other words set the default option to update CCleaner automatically but in the Settings provide two other choices 1). auto check only for updates/install if wanted or 2). not update at all.

A simple solution, a minimal change from the way CCleaner has always handled updates and one which satisfies everyone.
As usual, appease everyone and satisfy no one. It must be nice to live in a fantasy world.
Title: Re: Why did my CCleaner free version 2.3.xxx, auto update?
Post by: Mike23 on April 20, 2018, 01:58:12 PM
@ Bob,
You have your way of doing things & everyone else has theirs.

Why silently, sneakily, force a program to automatically update, just because "they" think it's better & safer?

As I mentioned, I've never had any kind of malware on my M/C since I started, way back in 2004.

&, No-one is "living in a fantasy world" as you put it.

This is real life with real consequences.

If AVAST had said that they were going to consider adding, no, installing an ".exe" file to auto-update my CCleaner, with the option to NOT do so, then people, given that choice, may have "Opted out" of the "Forced" update.

CCleaner is a FREE program with strictly MANUAL updates, (or it used to be so. Thankfully, my version still is.), if required, simply by pushing that little button at the bottom RHS.... marked thusly > "Check for updates."

Not a good way to run an A/V Company.

AVAST.....Lift your game.

ps. Bob, back on "18-04-2018, 08:00:36", you said...
Quote

At least Avast offer you one.

NO! They did NOT offer any kind of choice.
It was a "forced update" against our wishes with NO option NOT to update.
Title: Re: Why did my CCleaner free version 2.34.xxx, auto update?
Post by: mchain on April 20, 2018, 07:12:14 PM
I take it that the subject of this topic is the forced update of CCleaner by Avast.
Avast should update any outdated software just on principle alone; outdated software can/does pose security risks to the user. 

Should avast be held responsible for malware or security breaches from third-party software residing on a users system?  That is the underlying question.

See attached below:
Title: Re: Why did my CCleaner free version 2.34.xxx, auto update?
Post by: Mike23 on April 22, 2018, 01:58:29 PM
@ mchain,

Just because AVAST purchased Piriform & CCleaner etc.,
does NOT give them or anyone else, the right to update any program on my M/C or anyone else's
without the users permission.

(Please note, that I do not have any of the other "bloatware" installed &/or running on my M/C.)
(If I want to check for updates, I will do so, manually.)

I believe that you just quoted what AVAST Co. can do with their AVAST A/V & no other program.

I do not want any program, especially an A/V program, to update another on my M/C.
Quote
Avast should update any outdated software just on principle alone; outdated software can/does pose security risks to the user. 
That is my problem, if & when anything arises......NOT AVAST's.
The same answer applies to your 2nd similar question as well.
Quote
Should avast be held responsible for malware or security breaches from third-party software residing on a users system?

&, Regarding your Point C...
Quote
...User can use Avast but cannot prevent changes to the software they do not like or care for since they do not own their software but own said license instead.
That, pertains to AVAST A/V....& nothing else that I choose to run on my M/C.

What an underhanded, sneaky way to run a Company.

I have already stopped recommending AVAST & AVG to all my friends.
I do NOT want them to go through this fiasco or anything else that AVAST dream up.

Regs, Mike..
Title: Re: Why did my CCleaner free version 2.3.xxx, auto update?
Post by: KDibble on April 26, 2018, 05:42:28 PM
That's the creed of the negative utilitarian  - we can't please everyone so we'll just please the majority and those in the minority who aren't happy can be ignored. That attitude too often leads down the slippery slope to paternalism, authoritarianism or worse.  We know what's good for you and if you don't agree with us you're wrong.   

The ideal should be not to annoy anyone and the easiest way that can be done in this case is by offering choice. In other words set the default option to update CCleaner automatically but in the Settings provide two other choices 1). auto check only for updates/install if wanted or 2). not update at all.

A simple solution, a minimal change from the way CCleaner has always handled updates and one which satisfies everyone.
As usual, appease everyone and satisfy no one. It must be nice to live in a fantasy world.

Let's just deal in facts, please.

It is a fact that in at least some jurisdictions, this kind of behavior on the part of avast! is illegal. It is legally the same as if a cybercriminal used malware to change the contents of someone's computer. Regardless of what some avast! employees or "evangelists" (which may not be the same thing) believe, it is simply illegal. It cannot be done legally. Those who are harmed, if they live in jurisdictions where this is illegal, should file criminal charges.

I, for one, would like to hear a formal response from an actual, identified avast! employee regarding this issue.

Title: Re: Why did my CCleaner free version 2.3.xxx, auto update?
Post by: bob3160 on April 26, 2018, 05:50:12 PM
That's the creed of the negative utilitarian  - we can't please everyone so we'll just please the majority and those in the minority who aren't happy can be ignored. That attitude too often leads down the slippery slope to paternalism, authoritarianism or worse.  We know what's good for you and if you don't agree with us you're wrong.   

The ideal should be not to annoy anyone and the easiest way that can be done in this case is by offering choice. In other words set the default option to update CCleaner automatically but in the Settings provide two other choices 1). auto check only for updates/install if wanted or 2). not update at all.

A simple solution, a minimal change from the way CCleaner has always handled updates and one which satisfies everyone.
As usual, appease everyone and satisfy no one. It must be nice to live in a fantasy world.

Let's just deal in facts, please.

It is a fact that in at least some jurisdictions, this kind of behavior on the part of avast! is illegal. It is legally the same as if a cybercriminal used malware to change the contents of someone's computer. Regardless of what some avast! employees or "evangelists" (which may not be the same thing) believe, it is simply illegal. It cannot be done legally. Those who are harmed, if they live in jurisdictions where this is illegal, should file criminal charges.

I, for one, would like to hear a formal response from an actual, identified avast! employee regarding this issue.
https://forum.avast.com/index.php?topic=217752.msg1457538#msg1457538
Title: Re: Why did my CCleaner free version 2.3.xxx, auto update?
Post by: KDibble on April 26, 2018, 07:03:28 PM
That's the creed of the negative utilitarian  - we can't please everyone so we'll just please the majority and those in the minority who aren't happy can be ignored. That attitude too often leads down the slippery slope to paternalism, authoritarianism or worse.  We know what's good for you and if you don't agree with us you're wrong.   

The ideal should be not to annoy anyone and the easiest way that can be done in this case is by offering choice. In other words set the default option to update CCleaner automatically but in the Settings provide two other choices 1). auto check only for updates/install if wanted or 2). not update at all.

A simple solution, a minimal change from the way CCleaner has always handled updates and one which satisfies everyone.
As usual, appease everyone and satisfy no one. It must be nice to live in a fantasy world.

Let's just deal in facts, please.

It is a fact that in at least some jurisdictions, this kind of behavior on the part of avast! is illegal. It is legally the same as if a cybercriminal used malware to change the contents of someone's computer. Regardless of what some avast! employees or "evangelists" (which may not be the same thing) believe, it is simply illegal. It cannot be done legally. Those who are harmed, if they live in jurisdictions where this is illegal, should file criminal charges.

I, for one, would like to hear a formal response from an actual, identified avast! employee regarding this issue.
https://forum.avast.com/index.php?topic=217752.msg1457538#msg1457538

Thank you. That employee did acknowledge forced updates of CCleaner from installations of avast!

Now I would like to see a response from that employee, or another employee, regarding the fact that in some jurisdictions this is illegal behavior.

Specifically, in some countries no piece of software is allowed to modify a different piece of software residing on the same computer without explicit permission of the user in that instance.

It's not relevant that avast! owns CCleaner (or AVG, which is also forcing these updates). They are discrete, different, pieces of software. When I give consent for avast! to modify ITSELF on a computer, that does not convey permission to avast!, or to the company that owns avast!, to modify OTHER software on that computer. The permissions must be granted individually and separately.

And, as a technical issue: I had CCleaner set to never run on start-up. (CCleaner was installed as shovelware on computers we bought from a vendor several years ago. We did not uninstall it but we never used it either, and never configured it to run on start-up or as a service.) avast!'s forced update not only updated CCleaner to a new version, it interfered with my configuration settings for that completely separate piece of software and caused it to run on start-up.

That is no different, legally, from some cyber-criminal installing malware on my computer that is configured to run on startup.

Technically, there was no reason why this had to be done. avast! could have simply inserted the update bits into the CCleaner software without causing it to run on startup. The impression has been created that avast! did this to market CCleaner, by causing it to run on start-up and pop up self-advertising messages.

So I would like to hear a substantive, legally and techically-oriented reply from a responsible avast! employee on these points.

Thanks.