Avast WEBforum
Other => General Topics => Topic started by: j.m.reid on October 22, 2010, 02:14:04 PM
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Would be interested in views / comments on Microsoft Security Essentials from members .
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Why, since you shouldn't have two resident AVs installed at the same time, then they are most likely to have just one, avast.
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Good detection rate.
Poor configurability.
Shouldn't be run side-by-side on access (resident) with avast.
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Thanks for info and advice .The subject came up whilst talking to a friend and not knowing about it , thought I would enquire re. pros / cons .
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Excellent compatibility with Windows
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I think it needs alot of improments.
-It only relies on Signatures
-No Behavior Engine - a.k.a NO zero day/hour threat protection
-Automatic removal upon found infections
-Should'nt a AV be: Install and Forget! while MSE has: Install and remember forever!
Good things:
-It detects most of the ugly stuff, but still...
-Its free
-Its good for Windows Basic Protection
Still... I like Avast! Free better - But MSE is new too. ;D
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-It only relies on Signatures
-No Behavior Engine - a.k.a NO zero day/hour threat protection
Sorry, wrong on both.
http://social.answers.microsoft.com/Forums/en-US/msescan/thread/fd46d1fb-89bb-4263-9de3-7db7bbb2ac0a/
"The suite also emulates programs before they complete their execution, and looks for behaviour such as carrying out operations without user permission, Owen said. If a program is behaving suspiciously, MSE will ping the Dynamic Signature Service to see whether the program should be submitted for analysis or terminated."
http://www.zdnet.co.uk/news/security-management/2009/09/29/microsoft-launches-free-security-essentials-package-39778759/
-Automatic removal upon found infections
If your away from your computer when MSE finds malware, It will suspend the malware and wait for you to decide what to do. If after 10 min you haven't made a choice, it will deal with the malware in whatever way you have set for the default action for the kind of malware it finds.
As for is it any good, There's this:
"A recent test performed by an AV testing firm suggests that customers are better off running Microsofts free security solution for Windows instead of wasting the money on paid antivirus which Microsoft Security Essentials end up outperforming."
http://news.softpedia.com/news/Microsoft-Security-Essentials-Outperforms-Paid-Antivirus-in-AV-Test-162064.shtml
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In the recent AV Comparatives (detection) test, Microsoft Security Essentials got one of the slowest scanning speeds. It's detection rate is pretty good but Avasts beats it by about 1.7% and Avast has the fastest scanning speed out of all the tested AVs.
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I guess I like to live dangerous and all that..
running avast 5.1.889 and MSE
Security Essentials Version: 2.0.657.0
Antimalware Client Version: 3.0.8107.0
Network Inspection System Engine Version: 2.0.5854.0
on a AMD phenomX3 with 4gig running Win 7x64 (with multi-boot vista sp1 x64)
installed avast;
downloaded MSE;
disconnected from internet;
temporarily disabled avast;
installed MSE;
rebooted;
then I informed avast about MSE via:
AvastUI->BehaviorShield->TrustedProcesses
C:\Program Files\Microsoft Security Client\Antimalware\MsMpEng.exe
C:\Program Files\Microsoft Security Client\msseces.exe
C:\Program Files\Microsoft Security Client\Antimalware\NisSrv.exe
C:\Program Files\Microsoft Security Client\Antimalware\MsMpSvc.exe
C:\Windows\servicing\TrustedInstaller.exe
C:\Program Files\Microsoft Security Client\Antimalware\MpCmdRun.exe
C:\Windows\System32\MpSigStub.exe
C:\Windows\SoftwareDistribution\Download\Install\AM_Delta_Patch3.exe
and then informed MSE about avast via:
open MSE->Settings->Excluded processes->add (all the .exe's in c:\program files\Alwil... avast5\*.exe)
(make sure you “save changes”)
reconnect to internet
the actual sequence of events with my system was much more complicated: when I first installed win 7 and tried to run with both avast and mse my system died a horrible death and would only beep 3 times at power-on with no bios screen. Wow, that was impressive! I thought I had a memory failure and reseated my 2x2gig ram cards. After much consternation and nashing of teeth I reloaded win 7 (and lost a whole bunch of mostly useless personal files because I didnt backup on dvd's before embarking on this fiasco).
win 7 seems more or less stable now.. note that when MSE updates it seems to momentarily (a minute or 2) hog the machine. Also I normally run with UAC in a non-admin account..
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You need to know that you can't have two AV's on the same computer.
Is basic.
Uninstall one of the AV's (remove it completely) and let one running.
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michael_0 Your only asking for trouble, even if you manage to not get any direct conflict you have still made your security level's lower ::)
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michael_0 Your only asking for trouble, even if you manage to not get any direct conflict you have still made your security level's lower ::)
michael_0 Stick with Windows Defender as that does not conflict with avast! 8)
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You need to know that you can't have two AV's on the same computer.
Is basic.
Uninstall one of the AV's (remove it completely) and let one running.
Please note that even though this is usually taken as 'Gospel', it is not 100% true - You can have 2 A/Virus programs on most computers, as long as only one is set to run real (full) time scanning and they are set to exclude each other during their scans - MSE is easy to configure this way and is a suitable candidate for such a project -
No lowering of protection level is required by using this method - You only need to ensure any Shields/Firewalls are disabled and only the Microsoft installed Firewall is used - This is one step below that taken by michael_0, but it is the most secure way to run 2 A/V's on most computers (and will work) -
Thank You -
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Wrong, if both are designed to be resident AVs, even when disabled there will still be low level drivers loaded and it is these that are the major cause of conflict.
The point of these low level drivers is to hook files before they are run so that they might be scanned and there is a possibility that in the fight for control these drivers can lock the system.
At best this can cause duplication of scanning and higher CPU & RAM usage, which may impact on performance. At worst it could lock the system and if that happens to be at boot, then you could be locked out of your system. At which point you may be able to boot into safe mode and uninstall one and remove the potential for conflict.
So you now have the information, it is your system so you make your own choice.
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Me talking to Avira Mod about having multiple or so called multi-layered protection:
The risk is greater and I will tell you why. Usually security programs conflict with each other and the result is loss of functionality and you can easily predict what happens next.
We had a customer that uses 4 firewalls, 5 anti-virus software and 3 anti-spyware software. So, judging after you, this customer had a bullet-proof configuration. But you are wrong: he also had more that 10 malware active. QED & case closed.
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MSE is good if you have no intention to learn anything about security otherwise there are much better solutions that are lighter and that have less impact on the performance. I recommend your friend avast, avira, avg or comodo's CIS (the complete one).
Regards,
Tenko
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I use AIS (5.1889) on XP sp3 (32bit).
I use MSE 2 on my 7 64bit laptop only because I want to use 64bit programs.
Yes, I know there little to no advantage running a pure 64bit av.
Pardon my vanity.
I haven't had any problems or infections with MSE 2.
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MSE is good if you have no intention to learn anything about security otherwise there are much better solutions that are lighter and that have less impact on the performance. I recommend your friend avast, avira, avg or comodo's CIS (the complete one).
A very odd comment ??? since Avira and AVG are set and forget antivirus programs with automatic updates (like many others) - I use MSE on my XP desktop and I know it has great detection, as it has caught items in an instant while I was online - I then had a full system check and know that all infection had been caught and removed -
If you want a program where you need to learn about security, then Kaspersky is an antivirus that requires more playing with -
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This question has been running at Microsoft Answers , see this thread >> http://social.answers.microsoft.com/Forums/en-US/msestart/thread/ca8951d9-e6b6-4831-ba70-3684b7e84a25 and note the advice well.
I have all to often seen the result of running 2 or more resident av/malware systems and the problems created when they both detect and try to clean the same malware.
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Hi AdrianH -
It is a very simplistic discussion on the site you mention - According to that item you should not run any 2 active protection programs at the same time -
Ask YoKenny about running active antivirus programs, that may have anti malware, and running full time Pro Malwarebytes or Pro SUPERAntiSpyWare (or both), with active updates and protection, at the same time - I am sorry but there are several thousands of people who find that discussion is 100% garbage -
I have helped set up thousands of systems with these items running at the same time - Visit the Malwarebytes forum, ask if you can run fully active Malwarebytes with fully active A/V's, and you will find that this is considered as a Normal, every day, procedure -
Thank You -
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@ noknojon
This is discussing MSE with avast! not MBAM with avast!
You can not run MSE with avast! on XP nor Vista nor Windows 7 as it will conflict as AdrianH has indicated.
You can run Windows Defender on Vista or Windows 7 but I would not run it on XP.
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Hi AdrianH -
It is a very simplistic discussion on the site you mention - According to that item you should not run any 2 active protection programs at the same time -
Ask YoKenny about running active antivirus programs, that may have anti malware, and running full time Pro Malwarebytes or Pro SUPERAntiSpyWare (or both), with active updates and protection, at the same time - I am sorry but there are several thousands of people who find that discussion is 100% garbage -
I have helped set up thousands of systems with these items running at the same time - Visit the Malwarebytes forum, ask if you can run fully active Malwarebytes with fully active A/V's, and you will find that this is considered as a Normal, every day, procedure -
Thank You -
Good luck to you, AV systems have changed a lot over the last few years and despite your "1000's" of systems I am telling you from personal experience that what you are doing can lead to major problems.
I have seen Eset Nod 32 and SuperAntiSpyware detect and try to clean malware at the same instant, the result is an infected machine with each av/malware app having grabbed some of the files. Kaspersky,Norton,Avira have all been seen locking up with other apps on board, at the end of the day many people are causing themselves more problems than they solve by overkill.
I spend most of my time everyday (and have done so for a good few years now) cleaning malware from machines that were over loaded with "protection". ;)
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Hi AdrianH -
It is a very simplistic discussion on the site you mention - According to that item you should not run any 2 active protection programs at the same time -
Ask YoKenny about running active antivirus programs, that may have anti malware, and running full time Pro Malwarebytes or Pro SUPERAntiSpyWare (or both), with active updates and protection, at the same time - I am sorry but there are several thousands of people who find that discussion is 100% garbage -
I have helped set up thousands of systems with these items running at the same time - Visit the Malwarebytes forum, ask if you can run fully active Malwarebytes with fully active A/V's, and you will find that this is considered as a Normal, every day, procedure -
Thank You -
Good luck to you, AV systems have changed a lot over the last few years and despite your "1000's" of systems I am telling you from personal experience that what you are doing can lead to major problems.
I have seen Eset Nod 32 and SuperAntiSpyware detect and try to clean malware at the same instant, the result is an infected machine with each av/malware app having grabbed some of the files. Kaspersky,Norton,Avira have all been seen locking up with other apps on board, at the end of the day many people are causing themselves more problems than they solve by overkill.
I spend most of my time everyday (and have done so for a good few years now) cleaning malware from machines that were over loaded with "protection". ;)
+1
I use the free versions of mbam & SAS. I leave the real-time scanning to avast!
On my 7 64bit I leave the real-time scanning to Microsoft Security Essentials.
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@ noknojon
This is discussing MSE with avast! not MBAM with avast!
You can not run MSE with avast! on XP nor Vista nor Windows 7 as it will conflict as AdrianH has indicated.
You can run Windows Defender on Vista or Windows 7 but I would not run it on XP.
@ YoKenny - If you read the link provided to me and the comments then you can not ?? run your Real time MBAM with any second active protection , eg. avast! -
My reply was fully directed at the link provided to me in the discussion of running more than one active means of protection at the same time -
<<- I use the free versions of mbam & SAS. I leave the real-time scanning to avast! ->> This from rdmaloyjr says your active MBAM is not suitable to run, only free versions of mbam & SAS -
Maybe you should tell your forum that MBAM or SAS is OK to run in Realtime with MSE or avast! and cite your system (or exile360) as good examples -
<<- I have seen Eset Nod 32 and SuperAntiSpyware detect and try to clean malware . . . . ->> from AdrianH
This should be sent to Maniac (Borislav) , an expert and moderator on the ESET forum - There you will be shown how to do it properly -
Please READ a post prior to jumping on a response - This shows you have not read the item, and followed the links provided in the post -
Thank You and Regards -
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This is the biggest load of bull**** that iv heard in a long time, MBAM PRO and SUPERANTISPYWARE PRO are designed to run along side of your existing av's, you cant have two av's on a system running or not but mbam and superanti are not av's and do coexist with an av quite nicely, iv got this setup on my own 2 system's plus another 18 family members and multiple friend's systems and there has never been a problem and they run beautifully and dont even have exclusion's for avast and mbam pro but exclusion's would be required for most other av's and you can find the full list of exclusion's here http://forums.malwarebytes.org/index.php?showtopic=10138 there are also numerus members here on the forum that run the real time capability's of mbam or superanti with avast without problem's and if you visit the mbam forum you will see that most of the member's plus the moderator's run mbam pro with all type's of av's.
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Haven't had any more problems running avast with mse. I don't believe any posts here unless they give an in depth technical explanation, which none of them do. However, mse has a small problem (err feature!) when it updates its virus database (NOT an mse program update). The final part of a mse virus update is an “install” phase following the download phase. Apparently during “install” (final) phase mse shuts down and locks out all other machine activity for a couple of minutes, the amount of time varies presumably with the size of the mse update. MSE defaults to one auto update check every 24hrs. Since I reboot my machine everyday I do a manual MSE virus db update first thing that way it doesn't otherwise appear to be a problem..
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Haven't had any more problems running avast with mse. I don't believe any posts here unless they give an in depth technical explanation
You dont have to have in depth technical information to know that it is common knowledge not to have two av's on your system, wait till your av's both detect the same file or your system completly lock's because the av's detect each other.
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I don't believe any posts here unless they give an in depth technical explanation, which none of them do.
Why should we do so..?? (Use google..!!)
As it seems you already made up your mind. Good luck. ;)
asyn
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found that it slowed my computer in some scenarios beyond life acceptable treshold
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I've been running avast with mse for a number of years. I haven't had any instances of multiple detections. I've only had 2 instances of mse detecting anything and about the same for avast. Other than mse momentarily (about a minute) locking up my system during “install” (last) phase of mse definition updates, I see NO problems! I'm sure mse is doing something “stupid” but my work around is to manually update mse definition's first thing after login and mse wont update again for 24hrs.
The thing about “believing” problems others warn or report about is that without an in depth analysis its useless since I cant correlate it to any thing real. However, I think the warning about multiple AV's has some merit. I would not run with more than mse and avast since I doubt it would improve things. avast and mse appear to compliment each other in how they operate and mse may have some sort of 64-bit benefit.
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"DON'T CROSS THE STREAMS!" :D
G-Data's AV uses two engines: avast! and Bitdefender but it was designed to do so. (Personally, I didn't like the performance hit, was painful.)
Another quote: "Everything is permissible but not everything is profitable."
I really don't see a favourable risk/reward ratio with running multiple AVs on the same machine.
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"DON'T CROSS THE STREAMS!" :D
G-Data's AV uses two engines: avast! and Bitdefender but it was designed to do so. (Personally, I didn't like the performance hit, was painful.)
Another quote: "Everything is permissible but not everything is profitable."
I really don't see a favourable risk/reward ratio with running multiple AVs on the same machine.
"Everything is permissible but not everything is profitable."
1 Corinthians 10:23
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I found a workaround for the “mse manual update” taking a few minutes problem. It appears that mse delays the “install” portion of the manual update operation because of the avast shields. (Its best to do this right after a fresh reboot and I usually wait for avast to complete its update) 1) Open the mse window (right click mse icon) and click on the update tab (but dont start the mse update process yet); 2) right click on the avast tray icon; hover the cursor over the shields menu item; left click on “disable for 10 minute's; 3) start the mse update process by left click on the update button in the mse window; 4) after mse finishes updating: right click on the avast tray icon; hover the cursor over the shields menu item; left click on “enable all shields".
I suppose there might still be a problem of both “avast and mse” detecting something simultaneously. However, no one has reported that precise phenomena but have only suggested it might happen. I guess i'll believe it when I see it..
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I suppose there might still be a problem of both “avast and mse” detecting something simultaneously. However, no one has reported that precise phenomena but have only suggested it might happen. I guess i'll believe it when I see it..
Yeah, and as repeated over and over again you shouldn't run two different AVs in the same machine, unless they are specifically designed to be compatible (which certainly is not the case with MSE).
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I found a workaround for the “mse manual update” taking a few minutes problem. It appears that mse delays the “install” portion of the manual update operation because of the avast shields. (Its best to do this right after a fresh reboot and I usually wait for avast to complete its update) 1) Open the mse window (right click mse icon) and click on the update tab (but dont start the mse update process yet); 2) right click on the avast tray icon; hover the cursor over the shields menu item; left click on “disable for 10 minute's; 3) start the mse update process by left click on the update button in the mse window; 4) after mse finishes updating: right click on the avast tray icon; hover the cursor over the shields menu item; left click on “enable all shields".
I suppose there might still be a problem of both “avast and mse” detecting something simultaneously. However, no one has reported that precise phenomena but have only suggested it might happen. I guess i'll believe it when I see it..
Dont know why you bothered to post your work around ??? most people know that you dont run two av's, even if one is disabled it's still not recomended.
You know why no one's reporting a conflict phenomena ? because they've more common sense than you and dont want to run the risk of conflict, and even if you do manage to not have an issue between the two av's you are still reducing your protection levels without even knowing it, good luck to you but i believe we dont need twit's like you posting this sort of information in the forum that might encourage some unknowing beginner to try this and really stuff up there system ::)
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I've posted this many times!
The risk is greater and I will tell you why. Usually security programs conflict with each other and the result is loss of functionality and you can easily predict what happens next.
We had a customer that uses 4 firewalls, 5 anti-virus software and 3 anti-spyware software. So, judging after you, this customer had a bullet-proof configuration. But you are wrong: he also had more that 10 malware active. QED & case closed.
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If you really want to have two realtime AVs at the same time, then pretty much the only feasible candidates with decent chance to work with avast! are:
- Immunet Protect (http://www.immunet.com/free/index.html)
- PrevX Safeonline (http://www.prevx.com/safebook.asp)
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i'v been running both now for a few months on win 7.. works fine for me!
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i'v been running both now for a few months on win 7.. works fine for me!
Wait till they both detect the same thing then you wont be fine ::)
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i'v been running both now for a few months on win 7.. works fine for me!
Well, if you happy with that then, so be it... Just don't expect and ask others to follow your step because it's not a wise thing to do.