Hi again, does this site send email alerts when a question is answered? and thanks for all the info, you think it could be an update scrambling things, although I am fed up of Avast telling me my pc needs cleaning is there a way to turn off the warnings? if I can do that swapping comodo might be an option, but is there another firewall as good or as easy to run, as I said earlier they have worked together very well, and still do, and I have not had a nasty in 10 yrs, it's just the very slow startup which bugs me, regards Robert