Author Topic: Very hard words to avast...  (Read 14770 times)

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Offline RejZoR

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Re: Very hard words to avast...
« Reply #15 on: July 23, 2006, 01:40:03 PM »
20 years in this business and still such a rookie? :o
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Offline bob3160

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Re: Very hard words to avast...
« Reply #16 on: July 23, 2006, 04:05:39 PM »
20 years in this business and still such a rookie? :o
Sorry RejZoR he's far from being a rookie. I know I've been getting his newsletter for years and there are
thousand  of others.
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Offline Abraxas

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Re: Very hard words to avast...
« Reply #17 on: July 23, 2006, 04:33:17 PM »
Personally I found the Media Player type interface easy and intuitive to use. Maybe it's a generational thing , older people may not have grown up with such interfaces in their face when they want sound.  ???
To me it all looks quite logical .
I can't see any reason not to use a skinless GUI though , if that's more comfortable . As far as complex settings , if your not prepared to read the instructions why use any program ? Not an issue worth throwing Avast! in the bin in my opinion, which it is , just my opinion  ;)

Offline rdsu

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Re: Very hard words to avast...
« Reply #18 on: July 23, 2006, 05:01:52 PM »
Since the first time that I tried the avast!, I felt that its GUI aren't good and it should be very improved, and I expressed that on my firsts posts in this forum...

A lot of things was changed since then, like the transparent proxy, system resources (still needs a lot of improvements), new great features, etc...

But the GUI still need a lot of work! Some Sasha skins are great, but isn't enough...

I'm hoping to see some changes about this area on the v5.0... ;)

[EDIT:]
Its proactive protection and threats dectection should be also improved...
« Last Edit: July 23, 2006, 05:04:17 PM by VaMPiRiC_CRoW »
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Offline RejZoR

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Re: Very hard words to avast...
« Reply #19 on: July 23, 2006, 05:02:44 PM »
C'mon, after reading his "other" reviews i was like ::)
And he's using double standards for bunch of stuff.
He's saying for avast! that it has too many settings and for some other AV that hass less settings he's saying it should have more of them. Um?
Decide already what you want...
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Offline szc

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Re: Very hard words to avast...
« Reply #20 on: July 23, 2006, 06:07:17 PM »
...
...
But the GUI still need a lot of work! Some Sasha skins are great, but isn't enough...
...
...

Statements like this are completely misleading... why ? Just because you people simple can not (or do not) want to realize that skin designers are just skin designers, NOT GUI designers. There is a HUGE difference in between those two. Skins are something like clothes. Once you have someone's body shaped, you can make some nice clothes that fits that body. You can not change much about how that body looks like.

GUI design is something that Alwil needs to work on, not skin designers. I've got limited set of commands and options that I had to work with. I (like any other skin designer) just had to design and put some "clothes" on something that's already designed by Alwil. What does that mean ? Simple... it means, I can not make some different order of options, nor I can sort them the way I want. Alwil makes those rules, not skin designers.

Even though I was limited with all those things, I still did something (I feel free to say this) incredible with Silhouette_4in1. I made it possible to have some of those options hidden and visible only on demand. I am saying this just because I am 100% sure no one else did it before me. But that was some kind of limit... can't go further than that.

I still see many people keep complaining and complaining (read: bitching) about "silly" GUI that avast! has... and mostly they talk about default avast! skin made by Martin just because they didn't even spend some time checking for other skins... and still I am sure they would find even more cons in some other skins regardless of who made them. I still find this very unjust and I think people should appreciate this with little bit more respect. We didn't force anyone use them, we just gave you options so you can choose between so many otpions. In my iold country there is an old saying... "Head doesn't hurt if there is some more than you need... just leave it aside, no one hurt". It's better to have more, and then if you don't need it, you can just leave it alone. I am sure if we didn't have all those skins as options, there would be some other people complaining how simple and stupid looking avast! was... can't please them all. ;)

And above all, why complaining about something that you don't like but in the same time you have a wonderful option (Alwil made it available for everybody) to disable it ? Skinless option is something you just need to activate, and voila. If I don't like something like skins (like that guy JP), I would simply switch to skinless and I wouldn't cry any more. It looks like some people are really annoyed by some good (and errorless I must say) graphics we provided. Simple solution: Switch to skinless GUI and stop complaining, it really became out and annoying for other people.

At the end of this saga... If so many people hate those skins, I can not help when it comes to other skins made by my good friends RejZoR and Martin, but sure I can help with those that I've created... If you people think those skins help avast! look like something "childish" I agree if you want them removed from avast! skins download section. I ask Alwil to remove them immediately if so many people think that skins makes avast! looks so bad. This is least I can help.

Take care avast! people !
« Last Edit: July 23, 2006, 06:12:28 PM by S.Z.Craftec »
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Offline rdsu

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Re: Very hard words to avast...
« Reply #21 on: July 23, 2006, 06:17:12 PM »
Sasha,

I know that you are only a skin designer, but I'm talking about all the avast! program design and configuration!
avast! doesn't have the same usability as other AV's. That is the point!
That is why I said that even with your nice skins, they should care about all the design items...

Hope you can know understand what I mean...
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Offline szc

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Re: Very hard words to avast...
« Reply #22 on: July 23, 2006, 06:27:51 PM »
Sasha,

I know that you are only a skin designer, but I'm talking about all the avast! program design and configuration!
avast! doesn't have the same usability as other AV's. That is the point!
That is why I said that even with your nice skins, they should care about all the design items...

Hope you can know understand what I mean...

Yes I understand, no problems at all. I wasn't reffering specifically to you my friend, but to all those who make those reviews and do not even take some time to check all options avast! offers. I just took your Quote because it looked to me that no matter what we do with skins, isn't enough. Now I understand what you meant... but still, this is a good example for all those who write those reviews. They simply can't understand that using a skin is not a must. They can simply switch to skinless and problem solved, right ? Sometimes, even I get bored of those skins, but I don't complain... I just switch to skinless and problem's gonne. It's really great to have those options available to us.

Cheers !
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Offline RejZoR

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Re: Very hard words to avast...
« Reply #23 on: July 23, 2006, 06:57:13 PM »
I even made a skin and i prefer skinless interface! I don't even use my own skin (so much for confidence in my own work hehe ;D ).
Skinless one is just plain simple and i like it. Sure it doesn't look like interfaces of other antiviruses, but it's still simple and it does what it's meant to do. Select what to scan, how to scan and hit Scan button.
All the rocket science. Besides, is there really no one using stereo players? I mean Play means start, Stop means stop. Even a child could operate that.
Guess we should create a TV remote type skin so really everyone will know how to handle it (everyone's got a TV right?). Eh...

I just hope Alwil guys will post avast! 5 interface design before they send it into mas coding so we can "evaluate" it and give few recommendations.
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Offline bob3160

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Re: Very hard words to avast...
« Reply #24 on: July 23, 2006, 07:50:31 PM »
It's not the skins that are being criticized. It's the complex GUI that needs to be
revamped.
It's something that's been brought out over and over in the Suggestion thread.
It's never been listened to before. It would be nice if Alwil listened toRejZoR's suggestion in his last post.
Sasha, Martin, RejZoR, and every one else who's ever designed a skin for avast! can only do what Sasha said:
Dress the body they have to work with.
If the body is out of shape, no matter how it's dressed, the bulges will always show.
Just my 2cents.

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Offline Lisandro

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Re: Very hard words to avast...
« Reply #25 on: July 23, 2006, 07:51:56 PM »
Just because you people simple can not (or do not) want to realize that skin designers are just skin designers, NOT GUI designers. There is a HUGE difference in between those two. Skins are something like clothes. Once you have someone's body shaped, you can make some nice clothes that fits that body. You can not change much about how that body looks like.

GUI design is something that Alwil needs to work on, not skin designers. I've got limited set of commands and options that I had to work with. I (like any other skin designer) just had to design and put some "clothes" on something that's already designed by Alwil. What does that mean ? Simple... it means, I can not make some different order of options, nor I can sort them the way I want. Alwil makes those rules, not skin designers.
Thanks for the explanation Sasha.
I feel the same, I mean, I love avast skins  8)  Thanks for your skins  ;)
Although, I recognize the settings and the 'body' could be easier for the skin makers.
« Last Edit: July 23, 2006, 07:53:49 PM by Tech »
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Offline Dwarden

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Re: Very hard words to avast...
« Reply #26 on: July 25, 2006, 03:23:34 PM »
Actually this guy seems to moan and whine (yes whine about Avast ! GUI ) ...

yet the problem is in absolutely different area
and that is INSTALLER and major version UPDATER ...

when new user installs HOME / PRO version of avast
 there should be HUGE , CAN'T MISS dialog ASKING user if HE want to use

A. No skin simple GUI
B. Skin GUI
C. in case of PRO version NO SKIN advanced GUI

(ideally in hand with version for blind users (ie spoken step by step) ...

same should happen when users are updating program w/o silent flag enabled ...
it should ASK them in DIALOG if they want switch to different type of GUI ...

another thing is that Avast! got 2 main settings areas
 program itself and (Right Mouse Button at avast! tray icon > program settings)
and then for each resident shield (Right Mouse Button at avast! tray icon > On Access Protection Control > Details > choose shield > Customize )

while
first one is simple to reach and orient inside ...

then
second one can cause "little" hitch for users with averge computer knowledge and be problem for real computer newbies ...

that can be considered design flaw and should be checked into

in Pro GUI it's simple

Tasks > Resident protection > Right Mouse Button > Properties

also i somehow don't get his grip about automated decisions and silent configuration ... as You can do that already ...

in the end You can ask why this 20y experienced reviewer guy not learned to RTFM, FAQ and Forums in first line :)
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Offline bob3160

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Re: Very hard words to avast...
« Reply #27 on: July 25, 2006, 03:33:34 PM »
Quote
in the end You can ask why this 20y experienced reviewer guy not learned to RTFM
Very simple answer. Most people don't RTFM
If you write a valid review, you have to write it from the standpoint of the average user.
None of us started out as experts. I'm sure most of us (me included) still aren't.
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Offline Dwarden

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Re: Very hard words to avast...
« Reply #28 on: July 25, 2006, 03:52:06 PM »
sure and that mean users dont read manual ?  btw. You dont need manual to find those :)
but let me quote him from June AV article

Quote
My Ideal Antivirus
Here's a quick list of some things I expect the best antivirus packages to provide:

1. Solid protection, including excellent detection of known malware and a demonstrated ability to detect new "in the wild" malware and polymorphic viruses, as judged by independent test labs.
2. Regular antivirus-signature updates, with advantage given to companies that can detect, create, and deliver AV signatures rapidly. All antivirus programs should be able to update themselves as well as their virus databases.
3. Full silent automatic, with quarantine and/or delete as available options for all detected threats in email, files, etc. False positives are just not a frequent issue with the better antivirus products. User intervention is not frequently needed.
4. A deep set of configuration options and a single, unified program interface that's easy to set up, configure, and use.
5. Universal email package support
6. Optional inbound and outbound mail scanning
7. Built-in scheduling of full-system scans
8. A fully-functional try-before-you-buy version. While many of you may disagree, I prefer to see a product that times out after 60 days than one that doesn't do everything forever. I think 30 days is too short a time to evaluate a product like this, but that does seem to be the most common time-out period.
9. Helpful tech support, online documentation, knowledgebase, FAQs, installation instructions, and so on.

1. Avast! nearly meets this criteria yet there is still more to cover (compared e.g. to Kaspersky)...
2. Avast! meets this too
3. Avast! meets this too (silent options for each resident)
4. Avast! Pro meets tis with some irks there as You need visit two single UI areas (settings for program and residents are standalone), for Home version is main problem installer (no skin vs skin GUI)
5. Avast! meets this too
6. Avast! meets this too
7. Avast! Pro meets this too
8. Avast! meets this too including 60 days test time
9. Avast! meets this too and as bonus great forum :)

need i continue ? :)
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Offline RejZoR

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Re: Very hard words to avast...
« Reply #29 on: July 25, 2006, 03:59:15 PM »
And standpoint of an average user is not to read Readme file and whine all the time about everything?
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