Author Topic: WebRep Suggestion  (Read 9148 times)

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Offline logos

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Re: WebRep Suggestion
« Reply #15 on: March 24, 2011, 03:21:00 PM »
Quote
What Avast isn't doing is making it readily available as a standalone download

it's been uploaded online already and will be again, and honestly I don't think Avast minds. It's mainly a good statistic tool for them. You know my position I don't like tools like that and I don't use them, except for short testing... so I don't care really.
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Offline m00nbl00d

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Re: WebRep Suggestion
« Reply #16 on: March 24, 2011, 05:02:18 PM »
I don't understand the point of view of some of you.

If the problem is having more avast! users (using a stand-alone WebRep version) provide dumb ratings, then why providing WebRep, at all? Is the WebRep component of avast! products foolproof? No, it isn't. This means that many users will provide dumb ratings. So, if the problem are these type of ratings, then the problem is there already, it wouldn't suddenly start with a stand-alone version.

If there is a problem, it's already part of WebRep - the way it works. I don't see a problem with releasing a stand-alone version, considering that avast! has a large user base. Do you really consider all of them will provide accurate ratings? Don't you think that some of them will provide biased ratings? I wonder what's the real % of avast! users that would provide proper ratings for websites. Most likely, the % would be short.

A stand-alone version isn't the problem to inaccurate ratings. The problem lies in WebRep itself. Based on this, I don't see what would be the real problem of providing a stand-alone version?

Offline sded

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Re: WebRep Suggestion
« Reply #17 on: March 24, 2011, 05:14:38 PM »
My concern with making WebRep standalone would  be losing control of the updates.  Currently WebRep has not even been integrated with the Avast! Virus Lab inputs, and only reflects the popularity of a site and the subjective judgment of the voters as to its content.  Nothing there about potential danger, for example.  As it is now, there is an update possible with every Avast! update, and a tie to an individual avast! user cookies for keeping the voting current as best one can.  But I don't use it either, so just an opinion.
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Offline Lisandro

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Re: WebRep Suggestion
« Reply #18 on: March 24, 2011, 06:22:08 PM »
My concern with making WebRep standalone would  be losing control of the updates.  Currently WebRep has not even been integrated with the Avast! Virus Lab inputs, and only reflects the popularity of a site and the subjective judgment of the voters as to its content.  Nothing there about potential danger, for example. 
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Offline Zyndstoff (aka Steven Gail)

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Re: WebRep Suggestion
« Reply #19 on: March 24, 2011, 06:43:40 PM »
I don't agree to the update point.

The way things are supposed to work is this:

  • plug in receives rating from WebRep server
  • plug in shows rating
  • user rates a site (rather following only his subjective thougts)
  • WebRep plug in sends this rating to server
  • WebRep server combines the votes with whatever other sources using whatever algorithms / logics (virus lab etc.)
  • WebRep server sends combined rating back to user plug in
  • plug in shows rating

That is, as far as I know, the theory. So there is no update necessary on the front end (plug in side). All it does is send a message like "Green, Shopping, News & Blogs" to the server and receives a similar message. Updating is to be done at the miraculous algorithm thingy on the server...
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Offline sded

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Re: WebRep Suggestion
« Reply #20 on: March 24, 2011, 07:24:48 PM »
I obviously wasn't clear enough that my main concern is with updates (call them upgrades) to the WebRep program itself, which would nominally come in via the Avast! server, rather than the WebRep server  Considering the current maturity of the product and the plans discussed for improving it there could be a substantial evolution path.  Among other things it might be desirable to avoid a strung-out set of WebRep products to support, such as occurs now in maintenance of Avast! 4.8-5.x-6.x.  And, of course, the install, uninstall, reinstall, add new browsers has to come in somewhere.  Does it pay for WebRep to have its own logistics support as well as a data server?  SMOP/SMON.
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Offline Zyndstoff (aka Steven Gail)

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Re: WebRep Suggestion
« Reply #21 on: March 24, 2011, 08:25:40 PM »
Does it pay for WebRep to have its own logistics support as well as a data server?  SMOP/SMON.

Well, as I tried to say, I think there won't be any need for that once the design of the plug in is mature. What would you need to change, upgrade or update then? There is not very much code behind it, the plug in itself is a "dumb" remote viewer and vote-transmitter.

Does it pay off? That is a question to be answered by Avast Devs, since we don't really know in what direction this WebRep is going to be developed and what more features might be planned to be integrated in the plug in itself (not the remote assessment software on the server, which can be improved independently from the plug in).
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Re: WebRep Suggestion
« Reply #22 on: March 24, 2011, 10:38:32 PM »
you know what guys, what's upsetting me, and I'm not talking about you guys at all - sded and zyndstoff - is the attention all over the forum on WebRep, like the kids have a toy to play with, and they cry when it breaks. I think 2 posts out of three in the feedback thread for the latest beta is about webrep ::)
 Again, nothing to do with what sded and zyndstoff were discussing, on a serious note, for a change ;) (as opposed to the majority when it comes to webrep)
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Offline sded

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Re: WebRep Suggestion
« Reply #23 on: March 24, 2011, 11:42:11 PM »
Logos and others, I certainly don't know what the plans are to make WebRep useful instead of a decoration.  I take it on experience (faith?) that Avast! has some plans, so I am beta testing it.  I expect most users want to know whether a site is "safe"-which might be different answers depending on your security suite.  Whether it is "porn" is in the eye of the beholder, as well as being legally (and morally) different in most US states and a whole slew of very liberal countries vs very conservative countries and everything in between.  As former US Supreme Court Justice Potter Stewart is often quoted, "I can't define it but "I know it (hard core pornography) when I see it"".  Alcohol and gambling are widely legal except under some strict religious constructs.  Avast! was considering a company trip to Las Vegas earlier this year where some red things might have happened.  Weapons are regulated differently based on locale. Several US states widely allow carrying of concealed weapons. I have two guns myself, but if I tried to take them to Mexico they would probably jail me.  And is a violent anime site bad or not?  Live kick boxing, mixed martial arts, legal cockfighting in some places, ... are violent and often bloody.  Even Warez seems to run into different copyright laws depending on country of origin, and, frankly, "illegal" is just not a judgment very many users are qualified to make-even the lawyers in a single jurisdiction get a lot to argue about.  California now allows small quantities of marijuana to be sold for medicinal purposes, as do many other locales.  So, to quote WebRep, "How do you like this site" could be the color scheme, the animation, or a deep distaste for gun control advocates.  I couldn't even figure this out in the US (California?  San Diego?), let alone how to come up with a rational scheme that fits 150M diverse Avast! users.  :)  

We might take a stab at defining "safe" if we can agree that "safety" considerations include the use of AIS, for example.  Or assume not.  If a site installs things without permission, probably not safe.  If it crashes your computer unrecoverably somehow, probably not safe.  Then we get into arm wrestling pretty quickly in terms of "annoying" vs "dangerous".  Adware?  PUPs?
Even if the intent is to eventually use it as a Net Nanny, where parents restrict access to sites based on the results, that needs to reflect the tastes of the parents, not the worldwide internet community.

Maybe there are really only two decisions with the current scheme.  If a site is green, with nothing below the line, it is (probably) safe.  As I discussed in an earlier thread, everything else seems to require an understanding of the precautions one should take if one really wants to go to the site, depending on the "degree" of badness.  Everything from just being very observant, sandboxing, making an image first, to using your old computer, to using a false IP and wearing a mask when you access it.  There are users out there who have said they don't like the site, and that in their opinion it contains something they consider evil, Or very evil.  Whether you do or not.

So I try not to get on a soapbox very often, and wait for Avast! to finish subduing this tar baby.  If Avast! would like to discuss it further I would suggest another venue-this is a rather hard problem IMHO.  :)  I am also ready to cease and desist even thinking about it, since I have no intent of using it based on my current knowledge.  And mods, feel free to move this (or even delete it}-I will not be offended if you feel it is inappropriate to throw in my brand of System Engineering here.   ::)
« Last Edit: March 25, 2011, 12:53:27 AM by sded »
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Re: WebRep Suggestion
« Reply #24 on: March 25, 2011, 12:03:38 AM »
nothing to add sded, you're absolutely right... as far as I'm concerned there's no reason I can think of that would justify the deletion of your post ;) I've said before what I thought of webrep so I won't elaborate again, the Avast guys know how attractive that flashy thing appears to the majority, the introduction of it is not innocent at all, not much to do with security - I don't even consider it a part of the Avast suites - it's meant to attract customers/users.

 Now I read here and there that it could end up being connected to Avast malware database... I just want to see that happen and test it before I can say anything... but wait, I can already say something, we got already the webshield and the networkshield right? right? ;D

 On a side note, someone in the French section earlier tonight complained that he could not access a site, without giving any precision, not even the name of the site that I had to ask him ::) ... anyway, it took me less than a minute to find out that the site was indeed infected (network and web shields alerts). I'll stick to that, no webrep needed there. As to websites reputations, I don't care :D ... meaning that I'll judge by myself , the content being subjected to each surfer's appreciation, no time to waste with a gadget.
« Last Edit: March 25, 2011, 12:07:19 AM by Logos »
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Offline Zyndstoff (aka Steven Gail)

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Re: WebRep Suggestion
« Reply #25 on: March 25, 2011, 07:49:51 AM »
Logos, sded,

I do agree to all that's been said.
As a matter of fact, we do not really know where this webrep thing is really pointed at and what deeper thoughts concerning it's development are present with the devs.

Logos is right when making the point that webrep does not increase security level of avast in any way, at least at the moment.

I have the webrep up and running just for testing purpose and as a courtesy to Avast since they need participants for their further work on it - whatever that may lead to. So I'll just keep it running as long it is not annoying, what it is certainly not at the moment. Every now and then I rate a site.

We'll see what comes from it...  :D

P.S.: wouldn't it be nice if the plugin showed us that a certain site has already been rated by the user? I'm not sure if I rated a site already or not...  ::)

So guys, have a wonderful weekend.
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Offline Asyn

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Re: WebRep Suggestion
« Reply #26 on: March 25, 2011, 07:56:00 AM »
P.S.: wouldn't it be nice if the plugin showed us that a certain site has already been rated by the user? I'm not sure if I rated a site already or not...  ::)

It does that, if you allow its cookie.
Have a nice weekend,
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Offline Ashish Singh

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Re: WebRep Suggestion
« Reply #27 on: March 25, 2011, 08:31:28 AM »
Ya it does that. I am also in the favour of providing WebRep to everyone whether avast user or not.
May be a user who is not using avast but came across a website which is currently not rated by WebRep but he rated as Harmful.. it may happen and can make avast much much much popular
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Offline Zyndstoff (aka Steven Gail)

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Re: WebRep Suggestion
« Reply #28 on: March 25, 2011, 08:35:40 AM »
P.S.: wouldn't it be nice if the plugin showed us that a certain site has already been rated by the user? I'm not sure if I rated a site already or not...  ::)

It does that, if you allow its cookie.
Have a nice weekend,
asyn


Ooops... it does?
I have cookies allowed anyway, so I think I'll have to look more carefully.  8)

How does it show that? Asyn, give me a screenshot...
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Offline Ashish Singh

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Re: WebRep Suggestion
« Reply #29 on: March 25, 2011, 08:43:17 AM »
Watch this it highlights what i have already voted.
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