Author Topic: no boottime scan in windows 7 64bit?????????  (Read 11678 times)

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jediknightjason1

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no boottime scan in windows 7 64bit?????????
« on: February 16, 2010, 02:15:26 AM »
ok i see a potential problem that i feel i need to let everyone know about.....i've been a long time user of the avast software, i run it on all of my computers and i recomend it to all my computer servicing customers.....but recently i've done some highend system builds for a few customers who spent 3000 dollars on a nice corei7 system with 12 gigs of ram and tripple sli graphics cards...so on those system builds because there was more than 4 gigs of ram in them they had to run windows 7 64 bit...no choice in the matter......but what i've discovered after i got this system all built for these people is that when i load avast antivirus on their systems to protect their systems from viruses...the bootscan function does not work anymore!!!!!!  whoa  big potential problem! how can avast clean those nasty windows protected trojans if it cant do a bootscan to get rid of them? needless to say i dont know if i can recommend installing avast to my customers on these kinds of system builds if it cant totally clean trojans out of their machines?........is there a fix for this? is anyone working on this problem?
concerned avast user,
jason

Offline DavidR

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Re: no boottime scan in windows 7 64bit?????????
« Reply #1 on: February 16, 2010, 02:31:46 AM »
avast has not been able to do a boot-time scan on 64bit OSes not in 4.8 and not in 5.0 (currently). avast is as far as I'm aware the only AV that does have a boot-time scan in 32bit OSes excluding win9.x, winME, which don't support it.

So I don't know how you can advise your customers to use other AVs that also don't have boot-time scanning, 64bit or 32bit for that matter.

Alwil are still working on getting boot-time scanning for 64bit OSes and it is hoped that it will be in avast 5.1.
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Offline Tarq57

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Re: no boottime scan in windows 7 64bit?????????
« Reply #2 on: February 16, 2010, 02:33:19 AM »
Hi jediknightjason1, welcome to the forum.

This is a long known issue with 64bit OS; the boot scan is not available. Never has been.
In the future I believe it is intended that a version of Avast 5 will be released with this feature available. As for a time frame, on the blog it says that version 5.1 is intended to be released in the "Summer of 2010". So, maybe 4-5 months.
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ArtemisF0wl

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Re: no boottime scan in windows 7 64bit?????????
« Reply #3 on: February 16, 2010, 02:34:46 AM »
Quote
author=DavidR link=topic=55748.msg470956#msg470956 date=1266283906

So I don't know how you can advise your customers to use other AVs that also don't have boot-time scanning, 64bit or 32bit for that matter.


An excellent point. +1
« Last Edit: February 16, 2010, 02:41:26 AM by ArtemisF0wl »

jediknightjason1

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Re: no boottime scan in windows 7 64bit?????????
« Reply #4 on: February 16, 2010, 02:40:21 AM »
this reply might be late but....
the boot time scanning feature is one of the main reasons i run avast on all 5 of my computers and why i think its better than all the other choices that are out there. i run xppro on all my systems and i've had avast run boottime scans on all 32bit windows platforms from xp to windows 7. i just hope they get this issue resolved quickly because with technology rapidly increasing you can go to the store and buy off the shelf acer systems with 6gig of ram in them and windows 7 64 bit os......also more and more people are doing system builds for gaming that require more than 4gig of ram and require windows 7 64bit os to see the extra ram.
how soon will it be before avast 5.1 is released?
jason

jediknightjason1

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Re: no boottime scan in windows 7 64bit?????????
« Reply #5 on: February 16, 2010, 02:44:09 AM »
will the avast antivirus still work ok temporarily without bootscanning?
what do you guys recommend people to do who have to run 64bit os?

ArtemisF0wl

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Re: no boottime scan in windows 7 64bit?????????
« Reply #6 on: February 16, 2010, 02:47:48 AM »
All of us on x64 want it, obviously. It has been added to the wishlist for the next major release, but there's no definite date set or anything.

And yes it's a fine solution for x64, boot-scanning or not.  ;)  X64 isn't vulnerable to rootkits the same way that 32 bit systems are.

hyjaxltd

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Re: no boottime scan in windows 7 64bit?????????
« Reply #7 on: February 16, 2010, 03:48:22 AM »
Most of this deals with the VERY limited number of root kits for x64 enviroments.  This is mostly when you would need the boot-time scan.  It was covered by Vlk during the 'beta' phases but I cuoldnt find the exact post...its also why the BeHav shield serves no purpose...yet.

Vlk, did say they were going to have them working though.  Maybe someone else can find the thread.

Offline Tarq57

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Re: no boottime scan in windows 7 64bit?????????
« Reply #8 on: February 16, 2010, 10:30:11 PM »
Avast works good as gold without the boot scan option. In fact, I've used it only once, shortly after a fresh install.

It's only indicated in the event of malware that can not be removed using normal means when the OS is loaded. As prevention is better than cure, the better option is to have very good prevention strategies in place.

In the event that some malware gets on to the system despite these strategies, it's time to use other tools - and post the problem in the viruses and worms section.

Some of these tools are ones that a sensible user would run anyway following any genuine malware warning. The boot scan is one of those tools. Because it's unavailable for now, you would have to recommend something else in the event of difficult-to-remove malware.

I fully expect to never have to use the option. ("Fingers crossed" in this case means that I have confidence in the prevention layers.)
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Offline Zyndstoff (aka Steven Gail)

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Re: no boottime scan in windows 7 64bit?????????
« Reply #9 on: February 16, 2010, 10:39:21 PM »
Most of this deals with the VERY limited number of root kits for x64 enviroments.  This is mostly when you would need the boot-time scan.  It was covered by Vlk during the 'beta' phases but I cuoldnt find the exact post...its also why the BeHav shield serves no purpose...yet.

Vlk, did say they were going to have them working though.  Maybe someone else can find the thread.

64 bit systems are by design much, much safer and have a generic better protection.
This is the link to that thread and contains a link to a MS bulletin about it, very recent: 07. January 2010.

http://forum.avast.com/index.php?topic=53407.msg453197#msg453197
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timoto

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Re: no boottime scan in windows 7 64bit?????????
« Reply #10 on: February 18, 2010, 08:53:56 PM »
Well, well. For those hoping to escape without need of boot time scan, be warned.

I had avast and Stopzilla running in Win 7 Pro 64bit all windows updates etc.

I scanned an exe, nothing found, ran it, and then nothing.

About a minute later a trojan/worm/spyware cocktail started hammering away at my system.

I disconnected, scanned, removed, rebooted and reapeated the process to no avail.

Tried repair. no good.

Tried system restore, nada.

Tried reinstall image, that was shagged too.

It got to the point that the system could not be accessed.

Whilst I was doing my scanning, I looked in vain for a boot time scan, the thing that might have saved me. Neither Avast or Stopzilla had one.

So that was the end of that OS.

I think we may hear a lot more stories like this one in the months up to an AV with 64bit boot scan support.

Tim
« Last Edit: February 18, 2010, 08:57:52 PM by timoto »

Offline DavidR

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Re: no boottime scan in windows 7 64bit?????????
« Reply #11 on: February 18, 2010, 09:54:43 PM »
Well to start with avast is currently (as far as I'm aware) the only AV with boot-time scanning, albeit in 32bit only until avast 5.1 when hopefully it will be there for 64bit OSes (windows)...
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Offline Pondus

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Re: no boottime scan in windows 7 64bit?????????
« Reply #12 on: February 18, 2010, 10:03:55 PM »
Quote
(as far as I'm aware) the only AV with boot-time scanning,
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_antivirus_software

Offline Tarq57

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Re: no boottime scan in windows 7 64bit?????????
« Reply #13 on: February 18, 2010, 11:00:42 PM »
Well, well. For those hoping to escape without need of boot time scan, be warned.

I had avast and Stopzilla running in Win 7 Pro 64bit all windows updates etc.

I scanned an exe, nothing found, ran it, and then nothing.

About a minute later a trojan/worm/spyware cocktail started hammering away at my system.

I disconnected, scanned, removed, rebooted and reapeated the process to no avail.

Tried repair. no good.

Tried system restore, nada.

Tried reinstall image, that was shagged too.

It got to the point that the system could not be accessed.

Whilst I was doing my scanning, I looked in vain for a boot time scan, the thing that might have saved me. Neither Avast or Stopzilla had one.

So that was the end of that OS.

I think we may hear a lot more stories like this one in the months up to an AV with 64bit boot scan support.

Tim

A fairly important point with this story is that the AV has to be able to detect the malicious file for the boot scan to be effective.
It is possible that a boot scan may have detected it, if the reason it was undetected prior to running was that it was cloaking itself.
If the contents had not yet been added to the virus definitions, it would make little difference.
There will always be zero-day threats.
Some kind of behaviour blocker or HIPS might have alerted on the processes this file created.
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ArtemisF0wl

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Re: no boottime scan in windows 7 64bit?????????
« Reply #14 on: February 19, 2010, 02:30:37 AM »
it might be worth mentioning that there are several boot disks available for free from various other vendors. Pk posted here today that x64 bootscan will be available in ver.5.1 for sure ;D ;D ;D ;D

http://forum.avast.com/index.php?topic=55890.0
« Last Edit: February 19, 2010, 02:33:33 AM by ArtemisF0wl »