Author Topic: Program Update does not start by itself automatically!  (Read 17308 times)

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Offline Lisandro

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Re: Program Update does not start by itself automatically!
« Reply #15 on: June 24, 2011, 08:49:35 PM »
ady4um, automatic updates for virus definitions is a must have.
If you want a worse update scheme, go for AVG or Avira ;D
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ady4um

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Re: Program Update does not start by itself automatically!
« Reply #16 on: June 24, 2011, 09:30:42 PM »
ady4um, automatic updates for virus definitions is a must have.
If you want a worse update scheme, go for AVG or Avira ;D

@Tech, why are you telling ME? I'm not the OP. The user has his/her reasons to set it differently. I don't think that he/she is actually setting it correctly according to the reasons he/she says he/she needs it, and I am just suggesting him to review those settings to make it (Avast) to work as he/she needs/wants.

I am NOT saying that those are THE recommended settings. I am just explaining the possibilities.

As I said to the OP, I am always going to respect what the user decides, and the settings should allow him/her to decide whatever he/she wants, even if those settings don't sound reasonable to other users.

I am trying to give to the OP options/possibilities, and to help him/her to configure Avast to get the result THE USER wants. As long as the user understands the consequences, it's all up to HIS/HER choices.

Offline Lisandro

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Re: Program Update does not start by itself automatically!
« Reply #17 on: June 24, 2011, 10:33:42 PM »
The user has his/her reasons to set it differently.
I'm discussing, precisely, these "reasons". It was not personal to you.

I am NOT saying that those are THE recommended settings. I am just explaining the possibilities.
Ok, we all think the same :)
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ady4um

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Re: Program Update does not start by itself automatically!
« Reply #18 on: June 24, 2011, 11:04:09 PM »
The user has his/her reasons to set it differently.
I'm discussing, precisely, these "reasons". It was not personal to you.

I am NOT saying that those are THE recommended settings. I am just explaining the possibilities.
Ok, we all think the same :)

To sum up, Anacunga doesn't want Avast wasting his bandwidth when connecting using a very expensive connection, but he is also not satisfied with other behaviours.

That's why I am suggesting to change his current settings (which are not the original defaults) to get the result he actually wants. For anyone wanting more details, please read the complete topic.

Let's continue oN-topic now. Anacunga should come back, read the suggestions, try them and come again with (positive/negative) feedback and/or questions.

Offline Lisandro

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Re: Program Update does not start by itself automatically!
« Reply #19 on: June 24, 2011, 11:07:50 PM »
Go ahead Anacunga, set manual updates. You can also use your firewall to block other applications that use bandwidth.
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Offline Anacunga

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Re: Program Update does not start by itself automatically!
« Reply #20 on: June 25, 2011, 03:38:30 AM »
If you have updates set to ask they will never work automatically. Any AV program, not only Avast, should have database updates done automatically.
You even write "should" - implying that there ARE situations that automatic update IS (or at least CAN BE) inappropriate!

Program updates are another matter since the files are much bigger and sometimes will require a restart of the machine to be applied. That could be very inconvenient if an update became available at a bad time. Any update like 110624-0 or 110624-1 is a  virus signature database update, not a program update and they should be applied automatically to maintain as high a level of protection as possible.
Even with small pieces like virus database update, there ARE situations that automatic update IS INAPPROPRIATE.

If you set it to ask, they will not be applied until you do it manually and you will receive a notification to do so.
Right. And as you do it manually, yo don't need another big window covering the whole screen for nothing! Yo KNOW that you are telling the update to be made just now. So the small notification balloon is absolutely enough to be shown. And if you really wanna know more, you should be able to click into that balloon - to show the big window. But that big window should NOT appear just when you manually click on "yep - do your update NOW!" - you also don't show it when automatic updating.

It's just that simple.
No - it's not "just that simple".

Offline Anacunga

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Re: Program Update does not start by itself automatically!
« Reply #21 on: June 25, 2011, 04:54:13 AM »
First: have a look how AVAST4 was behaving! That was as expected.

To make it short: I want EVERY announcement of EVERY new virus database IMMEDIATELY - but only the announcement - and I install it (manually) AS SOON AS IT IS APPROPRIATE! In most of the cases it is as soon as the announcement is appearing; but sometimes the situation does not allow to install it just then, but maybe 2 minutes later - or as soon as the PC is again on a thick line (as the announcement was coming when having been on a thin expensive line). And I want to set those settings once - and not change them anymore after it is set. And while the update is done, I don't need that big "update window (from the main program)" that is stealing focus.

ady4um

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Re: Program Update does not start by itself automatically!
« Reply #22 on: June 25, 2011, 09:44:47 AM »
First: have a look how AVAST4 was behaving! That was as expected.

To make it short: I want EVERY announcement of EVERY new virus database IMMEDIATELY - but only the announcement - and I install it (manually) AS SOON AS IT IS APPROPRIATE!
@Anacunga, have you read my "reply #13"? You get an announcement when a new database is released, but you CHECK for an update when you first connect to the Internet and every 4 hours after that.

I'll say it again. YOU ARE USING THE WRONG SETTING. IMO, you need to set the database update to "manual", NOT "ask". Windows/Avast should tell you that there is a new database available after the automatic "checking" (by telling you that you are NOT up-to-date), but you won't be "asked", so no instant answer would be requested from you.


If that is not what you want, then try the following settings.

You want to minimize the use of bandwidth? Then reduce the "checking". Instead of checking every 4 hours, set it to 12 hours. Twice a day is around the same frequency of actual database updates.

You want to minimize being bothered? Set the database updates either to "automatic" (recommended) or "manual" (NOT "ask"). Let's think about it for a moment. If you automatically "CHECK" only twice a day, and you automatically update the database twice a day, in most cases you won't be using the expensive bandwith (since you are not using that expensive connection permanently).

In addition of setting the database updates automatically, you can set the notifications in a way that won't bother you (read "reply #13" for the respective settings).

So, you get to minimize the use of expensive bandwidth, you are not bothered, and you remain updated/protected. It depends on the group/combination of settings.

In this latest proposed configuration, the only setting that might not be so well adjusted would be that when you first connect to this expensive connection, Avast might try to check (and update) anyway. As I said in my reply #13, I don't remember where this specific setting can be changed.

A firewall rule giving permission to Avast to connect ONLY under your "normal" (non-expensive) connection would be useful.

I personally haven't set the database updates to something other than automatic, so I'd have to play with it to find the "correct" setting that would let me be up-to-date but that won't bother me too much with full-screen notifications (that is, if my first suggestion in this post - "manual" database updates - is not what you need/want).

About the "RED" icon in the tray area, it is the Windows Security Center advicing you that you are not yet up-to-date, since Avast has informed that a new database is available but not yet applied. If you set the database updates to "manual" (NOT to "ask"), then this is your "key" that you need to update manually when you decide it is the right time/connection.

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And I want to set those settings once - and not change them anymore after it is set.
You are using your computer at least under 2 different situations. You want at least 2 different behaviours, but you want to set Avast just once.

That's why it is recommended to choose the "most common" and "effective" of those 2 situations, and an alternative solution is to add firewall rules to control the (different type of) connections.

Quote
And while the update is done, I don't need that big "update window (from the main program)" that is stealing focus.

Again, try the "manual" database update.

I haven't been in the need to set the database updates to "ask". If there is no combination of settings that allows you to continue your work (read my reply #13 about silent mode and notifications) without being bothered, then I guess I have no real answer. But, with so many available combinations of settings, it sounds at least strange.

It doesn't sound so "logical" to set Avast to "ask" but simultaneously to "don't bother me", but I understand that your "answer" when Avast "asks" could be given using a tray notification instead of a full-screen GUI. Have you played with the mentioned settings and suggestions to see if you get the result you want?

Offline Anacunga

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Re: Program Update does not start by itself automatically!
« Reply #23 on: June 25, 2011, 10:47:14 AM »
ARE YOU SO CRAYZY NOT WANTING TO UNDERSTAND?? ??? WHAT RUBBISH ARE YOU AGAIN WANTING TO TELL ME?? ???

1. I don't care about popping up the small popup near to the tray icon as soon as a new version has come out. This has to come as soon as possible (after AVAST has given out an update). So the "check interval" can be as short as useful - maybe 10 or 20 minutes. And in that state ("update is ready") I am not again bothered by any popup - I should be informed directly by any kind of sign in the tray icon itself.

2. As soon as I got the announcement that a new version has come out, I want to decide myself whether I want to install that update "just now", within 20 seconds, within 2 minutes, within 5 minutes, "not now as I am on a too thin line, but as soon as I am again on a enough thick line", etc.

3. I don't want to need to "manually check whether a new version is ready" - I want to informed from AVAST for that by itself so that I just can click once (onto the tray icon to make the "an update is ready-popup") or twice (onto the "update now" inside that popup).

4. I don't need the main update-window to go open at that moment (when having clicked to "update now". that big window is just bothering and nothing else. If I really want it, I can open it by clicking once more onto the avast-tray-icon.

5. but I want again in a popup-info the info that update has been installed successfully. (If I want to check that, I can again click into the avast icon as I can at any time to open the main window).

6. I don't want to change that setting - neither daily nor dependent of the thickness of the line, nor dependent on anything else.

7. And I never want to CHECK manually!!! And neither get the info "there is no new update since your last check".

Keep in mind: the info itself that a new update is out is as small that it does not make any problem to be sent through a very thin expensive line - but the update itself could cause the cost of several euros - and you never know how big that update will be in advance - but you konw that the info itself (of an announcement of a new update)is enough small not to cause too much cost, even on an expensive thin line!
« Last Edit: June 25, 2011, 11:11:22 AM by Anacunga »

ady4um

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Re: Program Update does not start by itself automatically!
« Reply #24 on: June 25, 2011, 11:57:17 AM »
@Anacunga,

You still don't get the difference between the "server" having the update available (whenever), your Avast "checking" (every 4 hours as default, no matter if an update has been available 3 hours and 59 minutes before), and actually "applying" the update (which you want to decide when to apply it).

If you don't want to even try to see the results of setting the "applying" part to "manual" instead of "ask" (which is independent of the other parts of the process), or any other combination of settings that actually could get the results YOU want/need, then I can't do anything else.

Avast Team may change behaviours, but you are still the user who needs to know how to configure it according to your needs. Technology has not got yet to the point where Avast can read your mind and autoconfigure itself without even bothering you 8) . And Avast won't automagically work as you want if you keep using the wrong settings (read as: "misunderstanding their meanings").

Good luck.

Offline igor

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Re: Program Update does not start by itself automatically!
« Reply #25 on: June 25, 2011, 12:26:46 PM »
Basically, all the important functionality is already there with the "Ask" setting.
You get a popup when the definitions update is available - if you want to install it, fine, if you don't want to at the moment, you can e.g. pin it on the screen (or just forget about it and wait for the next one).

You are right that opening the program window is unnecessary - but since most of the users have the virus definition updates set to automatic and keeping it on Ask or Manual is quite rare, I kinda doubt the behavior will be changed (as some users might be used to how it's now, so additional program settings would probably required... just not worth, sorry).

Offline Anacunga

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Re: Program Update does not start by itself automatically!
« Reply #26 on: June 25, 2011, 01:12:56 PM »
Basically, all the important functionality is already there with the "Ask" setting.
You get a popup when the definitions update is available - if you want to install it, fine, if you don't want to at the moment, you can e.g. pin it on the screen (or just forget about it and wait for the next one).
Thank you for confirming that "ask" is the appropriate setting for my needs ...

But as mentioned: I would like that it is directly visible in the tray icon an update is due as a reminder: as long as no update is ready, the icon is "normal" - but as soon as an update is ready, the icon changes to red color, an exclamation marked red triangle, or what else - and as soon as the update is installed, it changes back to "normal".

You are right that opening the program window is unnecessary ...
... and thank you again for confirming this!

... but since most of the users have the virus definition updates set to automatic and keeping it on Ask or Manual is quite rare, I kinda doubt the behavior will be changed (as some users might be used to how it's now, so additional program settings would probably required... just not worth, sorry).
sorry, but why aren't you just providing an option whether to show or not show the main window while updating? As you don't show it while automatic updating, but showing while asked updating, it seems to be just a simple routine to kick on opening that window.

btw: argumenting with "this is so because it is so and users are used to it beacause it is so as it was introduced after version 4 (AVAST4 did not have the main window opening while updating)" is no valid logic - sorry ...

something else: also microsoft windows update is not showing the main window when manually updating - just because it is not necessary. but if you want to see it, you just need to click or right click the tray icon.

ady4um

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Re: Program Update does not start by itself automatically!
« Reply #27 on: June 25, 2011, 01:13:54 PM »
Basically, all the important functionality is already there with the "Ask" setting.
@Igor, the difference is that after Avast knows that there is an update available (it checks every 4 hours), "ask" will "bother" him, while "manual" will still let him know that an update is available, but it won't bother him (won't "ask").

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You get a popup when the definitions update is available - if you want to install it, fine, if you don't want to at the moment, you can e.g. pin it on the screen (or just forget about it and wait for the next one).

You are right that opening the program window is unnecessary - but since most of the users have the virus definition updates set to automatic and keeping it on Ask or Manual is quite rare, I kinda doubt the behavior will be changed (as some users might be used to how it's now, so additional program settings would probably required... just not worth, sorry).

@Igor, here I disagree with you. If most users use it as "automatic", then a little group use it as "ask" or "manual". Why opening a complete full-screen GUI, when it is clearly not necessary? All the needed functionality for this case/set can be done from the tray (which already includes "silent mode" and "updates"). The requested behaviour would be only an improvement for these group of users.

And what about the combination of these settings with the current "silent mode"? With silent mode "on", the full-screen GUI shouldn't be bothering the user, correct? But since the OP refuses to try it...

If Avast Team won't change (read as "improve") the behaviour just because of "conserving what users are used to", then no improvement would be made. Instead of the full-screen GUI, it would be only a tray notification. The rest is the same.

I still think that for this user in particular he should try the "manual" database update with some additional optional setting's changes, but the suggested improvement is still valid IMO (or just explain to the OP the exact combination of currently available settings to get what he wants).

Offline Anacunga

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Re: Program Update does not start by itself automatically!
« Reply #28 on: June 25, 2011, 01:26:26 PM »
Basically, all the important functionality is already there with the "Ask" setting.
@Igor, the difference is that after Avast knows that there is an update available (it checks every 4 hours), "ask" will "bother" him, while "manual" will still let him know that an update is available, but it won't bother him (won't "ask").
NO - THE ANNOUNCEMENT IS NOT BOTHERING ME - BUT I CANNOT ALLOW TO INSTALL THE UPDATE AT THAT MOMENT!!!

Quote
You get a popup when the definitions update is available - if you want to install it, fine, if you don't want to at the moment, you can e.g. pin it on the screen (or just forget about it and wait for the next one).

You are right that opening the program window is unnecessary - but since most of the users have the virus definition updates set to automatic and keeping it on Ask or Manual is quite rare, I kinda doubt the behavior will be changed (as some users might be used to how it's now, so additional program settings would probably required... just not worth, sorry).

@Igor, here I disagree with you. If most users use it as "automatic", then a little group use it as "ask" or "manual". Why opening a complete full-screen GUI, when it is clearly not necessary? All the needed functionality for this case/set can be done from the tray (which already includes "silent mode" and "updates"). The requested behaviour would be only an improvement for these group of users.

And what about the combination of these settings with the current "silent mode"? With silent mode "on", the full-screen GUI shouldn't be bothering the user, correct? But since the OP refuses to try it...
Sorry, but "silent mode" is "no announcement at all - even not any kind of confirmaton of 'update was successful' or else" - and that's not requested here! And "silent-mode" is just the contrary to "ask-mode".

If Avast Team won't change (read as "improve") the behaviour just because of "conserving what users are used to", then no improvement would be made. Instead of the full-screen GUI, it would be only a tray notification. The rest is the same.
that would not be "silent mode"

I still think that for this user in particular he should try the "manual" database update with some additional optional setting's changes, but the suggested improvement is still valid IMO (or just explain to the OP the exact combination of currently available settings to get what he wants).
I am not sure if you got the problem (but Igor did): I am NOT bothered about any update announcement, but I am bothered about the unnecessary main window opening while updating in "ask-mode"! And I need "ask-mode" as I cannot permit updating when the situation does not allow it!

Offline igor

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Re: Program Update does not start by itself automatically!
« Reply #29 on: June 25, 2011, 02:02:09 PM »
sorry, but why aren't you just providing an option whether to show or not show the main window while updating? As you don't show it while automatic updating, but showing while asked updating, it seems to be just a simple routine to kick on opening that window.

btw: argumenting with "this is so because it is so and users are used to it beacause it is so as it was introduced after version 4 (AVAST4 did not have the main window opening while updating)" is no valid logic - sorry ...

Might be "invalid logic" for you, but it doesn't mean it is so. Simply changing the behavior would probably result in a number of users writing to the tech support asking why the manual updates stopped working - which they'd assume if the program window suddenly stopped appearing (and an additional tech support traffic is certainly unwanted). Comparing with avast! 4 is hardly relevant - it's basically a completely different product.

As for "why aren't you just"... sure, it's always "just". I am just saying that it's a feature request that would take some, possibly small, effort to implement, if it's GUI change, then some additional effort to localize into those 37 languages... and that the priority of such a change is (IMHO) rather low - that's all. I'm not saying I wouldn't find such an option reasonable. But you know, there's always quite a few of those small features waiting in queue...
« Last Edit: June 25, 2011, 02:06:31 PM by igor »